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Old
08-15-2012, 02:20 PM
  #51
FishManSam
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Jenner + Wisniewski

for

Mackinnon


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Old
08-15-2012, 05:58 PM
  #52
The Head Crusher
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Yea not a chance Edmonton goes for this one. Ignoring the trade value which is off, James Wisniewski is over paid and we will need the cap space for Hall and Eberle's up coming contracts extensions.

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Old
08-15-2012, 07:15 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadianBoy8 View Post
Haha ya that is generous, lets see:

Tyler Pitlick:
Weight: 198 lbs
Height: 6'2
HF rating: 7.0C
Drafted 31st overall 2010
Advantages: Skating, Shot

Boone Jenner:
Weight: 205 lbs
Height: 6'1
HF Rating: 7.0C
Drafted 37th overall 2011
Advantages: Defensively (by a hair)

Physicality is a wash, but Pitlick is a year ahead.

There are close but Pitlick is definitely better.
Come back to me when you have evidence instead of assertions and irrelevant distraction stats (height and weight? is this some kind of joke?). Until then, it's "they're a wash, baseline, and arguments can be made in favor of either one either way."

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Old
08-15-2012, 07:25 PM
  #54
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Boone Jenner is a great hockey name.

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Old
08-15-2012, 10:37 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xoggz22 View Post
Understood. I was thinking Schultz was a LH shot for some reason. I agree it may have made sense at one point and there would be potential value but not as things shake out currently. Good luck. Here's hoping you don't get #1 for 4 years in a row.
I'd love to see you guys get the top pick next year TBH. We definitely know what you guys went through last year, if you have another bad year this year it's best to finish last and hopefully draft 1st.

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08-15-2012, 10:43 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
Come back to me when you have evidence instead of assertions and irrelevant distraction stats (height and weight? is this some kind of joke?). Until then, it's "they're a wash, baseline, and arguments can be made in favor of either one either way."
HAHAHA when you are looking at power forwards those are the stats you look at! Nice try though bud.
And as for stats, we'll take the only season that Pitlick played in the Dub: 2010-11

..........GP G A P PIM PPG
Pitlick: 56 27 35 62 31 1.10

Jenner:63 25 41 66 57 1.04

So Pitlick had 4 less points in 7 less games! Pitlick also has a year of pro under his belt unlike Jenner!
So there are the stats, didnt help your argument too much did they?

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Old
08-15-2012, 10:55 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadianBoy8 View Post
HAHAHA when you are looking at power forwards those are the stats you look at! Nice try though bud.
And as for stats, we'll take the only season that Pitlick played in the Dub: 2010-11

..........GP G A P PIM PPG
Pitlick: 56 27 35 62 31 1.10

Jenner:63 25 41 66 57 1.04

So Pitlick had 4 less points in 7 less games! Pitlick also has a year of pro under his belt unlike Jenner!
So there are the stats, didnt help your argument too much did they?
Yea, but you've obviously never seen Jenner play.....

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Old
08-16-2012, 02:59 AM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadianBoy8 View Post
HAHAHA when you are looking at power forwards those are the stats you look at! Nice try though bud.
And as for stats, we'll take the only season that Pitlick played in the Dub: 2010-11

..........GP G A P PIM PPG
Pitlick: 56 27 35 62 31 1.10

Jenner:63 25 41 66 57 1.04

So Pitlick had 4 less points in 7 less games! Pitlick also has a year of pro under his belt unlike Jenner!
So there are the stats, didnt help your argument too much did they?
Power forwards?

I'm sorry, are we still talking about the same players?

Pitlick has a pro year already because he's a year older. If you compare Jenner's stats from the same junior year, he has 49 points in 43 games (22-27-49). More points per game (1.15).

I have more confidence in Boone, but frankly the differences demonstrated at this pointare so minute as to be silly to try to draw major conclusions. It's just more reasonable to conclude that it's a wash, despite both sides being able to find details to emphasize to "prove" one is better than the other.


EDIT: Funny thing, I should probably like Pitlick more. We share a birthday. (date, not year)


Last edited by Viqsi: 08-16-2012 at 03:05 AM.
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Old
08-16-2012, 06:14 AM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
Come back to me when you have evidence instead of assertions and irrelevant distraction stats (height and weight? is this some kind of joke?). Until then, it's "they're a wash, baseline, and arguments can be made in favor of either one either way."
I really like Jenner but at this point I think it is fair to say that Pitlick is ahead on the development curve. Pitlick started slow in the AHL but by the end of the season he was playing very well. He was with out a doubt one of the Barons best players in their long playoff run.

A lot of Oiler fans are down on Piltlick becaus ehis scoring numbers were not what they had hoped for his first year in the AHL. And while it is true that he satrted slow, the Barons had an excess of forwards so Nelson did a lot of rotating within the lineup. BUt over the last 20 games of the season and through the playoffs Pitlick's ppg ave was over .5 despite the fact that he was still mostly playing in a more defensive role on a team that scores by committtee.

Pitlick is one of the Oilers most important forward prospects. He is is a very strong skater, hits like a truck, and has a pro level shot. Personally, I hope he plays center this year because I think he has the tools to be the #2 guy on the Oilers, given that he would not have tocarry the offensive load.

Of course Jenner could esaily be the better player in the future. But right now I'd still take Pitlick if the choice was between the two and as I said I am a fan of Jenner's.

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Old
08-16-2012, 08:00 AM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soundwave View Post
Hate to burst your little fantasy, but none of them are going anywhere if the Oilers want to keep them.

Even at $6 mill per/average for all four of them that's not even close to half of a $65-$70 million dollar cap.

After Horcoff is done in three years (right when Yak's deal will be up), the Oilers don't even have any other long term contracts to worry about, it's basically all clear cap space.

If this is the group of four (heck, five even, through Schultz in there at $5-$6 mill per too) want to use as their franchise anchors, it's not a problem.

As for this trade, no way does CLB put their 1st on the table, and no way does Edmonton take on Wisniewski's contract, especially now that they basically got Justin Schultz on a dirt cheap ELC deal.
My only concern if I was an Edmonton fan would be this...

How many top tier teams have 3 of their top 4 paid players as wingers??

Not many, if at all any.

Most teams invest in centers/defense... if you're paying Yak/Eberle/Hall on average 5.5-6 million (just using skinners as comparison... I say each get min 5.5, if not 6 million).. you will have at least 16-18million tied up in 3 wingers.... it doesn't seem like ideal cap distribution.

Honestly, I can't think of a team since post lockout that had that much tied up in top tier wingers... Sounds ridicolous... but I honestly can't. I certainly can be wrong. but off the top of my head I can't think of any team with 3 wingers having a cap hit of 6million.

Most teams rather spend that kind of cash on centers/defense because they have a more impact on the game.

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Old
08-16-2012, 09:38 AM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Howie View Post
My only concern if I was an Edmonton fan would be this...

How many top tier teams have 3 of their top 4 paid players as wingers??

Not many, if at all any.

Most teams invest in centers/defense... if you're paying Yak/Eberle/Hall on average 5.5-6 million (just using skinners as comparison... I say each get min 5.5, if not 6 million).. you will have at least 16-18million tied up in 3 wingers.... it doesn't seem like ideal cap distribution.

Honestly, I can't think of a team since post lockout that had that much tied up in top tier wingers... Sounds ridicolous... but I honestly can't. I certainly can be wrong. but off the top of my head I can't think of any team with 3 wingers having a cap hit of 6million.

Most teams rather spend that kind of cash on centers/defense because they have a more impact on the game.
Chicago is the team you are looking for. And if you want, choose any winger on the caps to go with Ovechkin and Semin and you are pretty close to $18M.

The real question is whether or not the team has any anchor contracts. If they don't do anything stupid they have plenty of room to pay the big four and add solid depth, especially if you can grow much of the depth internally.

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Old
08-16-2012, 04:20 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourier View Post
I really like Jenner but at this point I think it is fair to say that Pitlick is ahead on the development curve.
He's a year older and thus has already had the chance to spend a year in the AHL. If he's not ahead on the development curve, something is very drastically wrong.

I don't doubt he's going to be awesome. But there is zero rational basis on which to say "he will definitely be the better player". And that is what folks here are saying when they claim that swapping them being a lateral move is "generous for Columbus".

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Old
08-16-2012, 04:26 PM
  #63
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Edmonton isn't trading their 1st next year.

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Old
08-16-2012, 05:39 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourier View Post
Chicago is the team you are looking for. And if you want, choose any winger on the caps to go with Ovechkin and Semin and you are pretty close to $18M.

The real question is whether or not the team has any anchor contracts. If they don't do anything stupid they have plenty of room to pay the big four and add solid depth, especially if you can grow much of the depth internally.
Dont forget NYR

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Old
08-16-2012, 05:42 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
He's a year older and thus has already had the chance to spend a year in the AHL. If he's not ahead on the development curve, something is very drastically wrong.

I don't doubt he's going to be awesome. But there is zero rational basis on which to say "he will definitely be the better player". And that is what folks here are saying when they claim that swapping them being a lateral move is "generous for Columbus".
I am not making that claim.

I really like Pitlick, but I agree that Jenner is on the same level. I think a straight trade with these two could go either way and in fact, I could see an argument that Jenner being more of a natural center, he might be the better choice for the Oilers.

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Old
08-16-2012, 11:56 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Howie View Post
My only concern if I was an Edmonton fan would be this...

How many top tier teams have 3 of their top 4 paid players as wingers??

Not many, if at all any.

Most teams invest in centers/defense... if you're paying Yak/Eberle/Hall on average 5.5-6
million (just using skinners as comparison... I say each get min 5.5, if not 6 million).. you will have at least 16-18million tied up in 3
wingers.... it doesn't seem like ideal cap distribution.

Honestly, I can't think of a team since post lockout that had that
much tied up in top tier wingers... Sounds ridicolous... but I honestly can't. I certainly can be wrong. but off the top of my head I can't think of any team with 3 wingers having
a cap hit of 6million.

Most teams rather spend that kind of cash on centers/defense because they have a more impact
on the game.
Hall can and has played center

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Old
08-17-2012, 12:07 AM
  #67
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Hall can and has played center
He can, but he's not as effective as he is on the wing.

We are better off finding a Bolland type centre for the 2nd like and move Gagner for D help.

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Old
08-17-2012, 07:15 AM
  #68
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I don't think there is any question that Edmonton can keep their 4 big forwards under contract if they choose to.

The question is can they build a solid enough team defensively around them.

That is what separates the NYR, the Blackhawks, from the Oilers.

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08-17-2012, 02:42 PM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourier View Post
I am not making that claim.
Not saying you are; I was more concerned about someone continuing to push that claim "on your behalf".

(I've sadly become trigger-happy when it comes to Oil fans and our centers. I apologize if in the process I shoot someone who does not deserve to be shot. )

Quote:
Originally Posted by TSA0402 View Post
I don't think there is any question that Edmonton can keep their 4 big forwards under contract if they choose to.

The question is can they build a solid enough team defensively around them.

That is what separates the NYR, the Blackhawks, from the Oilers.
That would be my concern also. Haven't studied the Oil's blueline prospects much, though, so I've avoided comment.

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08-17-2012, 04:02 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
He's a year older and thus has already had the chance to spend a year in the AHL. If he's not ahead on the development curve, something is very drastically wrong.

I don't doubt he's going to be awesome. But there is zero rational basis on which to say "he will definitely be the better player". And that is what folks here are saying when they claim that swapping them being a lateral move is "generous for Columbus".
I'm the one who said "be a bit generous" since Pitlick is the safer bet and brings more valuable assets to the table. I didn't say anything about who will be better though. Jenner could very well be the better player and I was really annoyed when we took Musil instead of him. I still wouldn't even consider the swap though

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08-17-2012, 04:07 PM
  #71
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That would be my concern also. Haven't studied the Oil's blueline prospects much, though, so I've avoided comment.
It's quite the opposite actually. It's our biggest strength after our top 6

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08-17-2012, 04:21 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by TSA0402 View Post
I don't think there is any question that Edmonton can keep their 4 big forwards under contract if they choose to.

The question is can they build a solid enough team defensively around them.

That is what separates the NYR, the Blackhawks, from the Oilers.
Really thats all that separates the teams? They all have identical histories and cities. There is no benefit say NYR have over Edmonton when it comes to free agents or being on players trade lists (Nash). It would be ALOT easier to speed up this rebuild if Edmonton's managment got to lure people to New York or Chicago instead of Edmonton

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08-17-2012, 08:19 PM
  #73
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I don't think there is any question that Edmonton can keep their 4 big forwards under contract if they choose to.

The question is can they build a solid enough team defensively around them.

That is what separates the NYR, the Blackhawks, from the Oilers.
I think it's more things like Hossa, Gaborik, etc.. than the defensive stuff. We shall see in the upcoming seasons, though.

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Old
08-17-2012, 10:13 PM
  #74
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Not saying you are; I was more concerned about someone continuing to push that claim "on your behalf".

(I've sadly become trigger-happy when it comes to Oil fans and our centers. I apologize if in the process I shoot someone who does not deserve to be shot. )



That would be my concern also. Haven't studied the Oil's blueline prospects much, though, so I've avoided comment.
26 years of age or younger:

Ladislav Smid
Jeff Petry
Justin Schultz
Oscar Klefbom

David Musil
Martin Marincin
Martin Gernat
Taylor Fedun
Colten Teubert
Theo Peckham

It really is our biggest prospect strength at the moment TBH. Our defense will be just fine as at least 4 of the guys mentioned above are or will be top 4 NHLers. The rest could all bust/never amount to much and we'd still have a pretty solid mix of size, speed, and skill with the bolded 4 above.

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Old
08-17-2012, 10:16 PM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TSA0402 View Post
I don't think there is any question that Edmonton can keep their 4 big forwards under contract if they choose to.

The question is can they build a solid enough team defensively around them.

That is what separates the NYR, the Blackhawks, from the Oilers.
Ironically enough we trounced them twice last season without much of a blueline. The addition of Justin Schultz will be huge in this regard and the eventual addition of Oscar Klefbom will add another guy that can move the puck and defend.

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