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2012 Whitecaps FC Thread VII

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11-02-2012, 05:27 PM
  #926
Carl Carlson
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I'm fine with it for now as long as we're still getting good results while they're with us. The way the league is structured you simply have to have a good academy and good scouting. But as MLS grows and improves then we'll need to look into retaining these players. I can't fault players for wanting to go play in better leagues at the moment. If we can become the Barcelona, or Ajax, of MLS I'd be happy.
Totally agree with you on the academy and scouting point. In the next 2 - 3 years I'm really hoping to see some talent emerge from our academy. We have several promising players from the sounds of it. Also pouring $ into scouting is never a bad thing. There are so many leagues and teams out there that good scouts can watch. The one thing I'm still waiting for us to find is a creative CM. Someone who can distribute the ball, maybe dribble through some players and just be that player the team runs through.

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11-02-2012, 06:02 PM
  #927
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First of all, LA is a far superior team so we were never going to see more than 40% of the ball anyways. If we had played a game where we controlled more of the ball we would have left ourselves far more exposed at the back. It's kind of like asking the 2006 Calgary Flames to play a run and gun style against the 2010 Washington Capitals...

And secondly, yeah I do think they could have won with 25% possession. What if they had scored on that break in the 68'? What if JdM hadn't gone down to injury? It's not out of the realm of possibilities that we could have come out on top considering we'd kept them off the sheet for so long. To me saying that is as stupid as when I hear people say that the 2011 Canucks weren't really that good. So if in that game 7 if they had FLUKED a victory are they still "not all that good"?

Whitecaps played the game that gave them the best shot at winning, the game plan was terrific and they nearly pulled it off. Great effort.
They looked fine when they went forward, Rennie just told them to stay to go Ultra Defensive and get a sweaty victory. you can't expect to win more than 5% of the time like that. Great effort, but not very smart.

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11-02-2012, 06:23 PM
  #928
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Originally Posted by John Swartzwelder View Post
They looked fine when they went forward, Rennie just told them to stay to go Ultra Defensive and get a sweaty victory. you can't expect to win more than 5% of the time like that. Great effort, but not very smart.

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11-02-2012, 07:05 PM
  #929
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Totally agree with you on the academy and scouting point. In the next 2 - 3 years I'm really hoping to see some talent emerge from our academy. We have several promising players from the sounds of it. Also pouring $ into scouting is never a bad thing. There are so many leagues and teams out there that good scouts can watch. The one thing I'm still waiting for us to find is a creative CM. Someone who can distribute the ball, maybe dribble through some players and just be that player the team runs through.
Definitely the biggest hole this off-season at the moment. I had hope that Robson could fill that role at the MLS level, but his attitude alone makes me want Rennie to look for a better option.

If Lee retires, the whole right side of the field will need an overhaul, which may make that a bigger priority, though.

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11-02-2012, 07:06 PM
  #930
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Wow! Pathetic reply! Almost on par with "Stick to hockey", offering nothing, making yourself seem arrogant, and masking your lack of things to say.

Quit being so passive aggressive, you're embarrasing yourself.

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11-02-2012, 07:34 PM
  #931
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Wow! Pathetic reply! Almost on par with "Stick to hockey", offering nothing, making yourself seem arrogant, and masking your lack of things to say.

Quit being so passive aggressive, you're embarrasing yourself.
Please stick to hockey. There was nothing wrong with Rennie's tactics last night. If you are suggesting that the Whitecaps could have won by somehow retaining possession and trading chances with the Galaxy, then I have no words to offer you except that you need to take a closer look at our squad in comparison to LA's.

The fact is that when you don't have the depth or talent to be able to control the game in the midfield (as LA did), you have little option but to defend and hope that you can catch them on the counterattack while the other team pushes up - that almost automatically means that the other team is going to dominate possession. It's a very common way for less talented teams to beat stronger ones - just ask Chelsea how they won the Champions League last year.


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11-02-2012, 08:12 PM
  #932
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Please stick to hockey. There was nothing wrong with Rennie's tactics last night. If you are suggesting that the Whitecaps could have won by somehow retaining possession and trading chances with the Galaxy, then I have no words to offer you except that you need to take a closer look at our squad in comparison to LA's.

The fact is that when you don't have the depth or talent to be able to control the game in the midfield (as LA did), you have little option but to defend and hope that you can catch them on the counterattack while the other team pushes up - that almost automatically means that the other team is going to dominate possession. It's a very common way for less talented teams to beat stronger ones - just ask Chelsea how they won the Champions League last year.
Chelsea had 44% possesion that game - Caps had 31%. Chelsea had at least some consistent forward pushes, Caps decided to bunker down like i've never seen before. There certainly is a place for counter attacking play, but not to that extreme, that was a horrible decision to become the team that takes everything so hard that it is inevitable that something bad will happen. What, you think a crazy bounce isn't likely when 50% of the game the ball is less than 40 yards from your net? You think that the other team won't penetrate and on any small foul go down like a sack of potatoes for the PK? Really?

It's not Barcelona vs Bhutan here people, these are somewhat evenly matched teams. It's just a pathetic tactic.

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11-02-2012, 08:12 PM
  #933
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Originally Posted by John Swartzwelder View Post
Wow! Pathetic reply! Almost on par with "Stick to hockey", offering nothing, making yourself seem arrogant, and masking your lack of things to say.

Quit being so passive aggressive, you're embarrasing yourself.
He has a point.

It would be like expecting Celtic to go after Barcelona once they got their miraculous 1 goal lead a few weeks ago. Would've been a slaughter.

Rennie didn't really get his tactics wrong at all. The team has it's peak, and it played pretty close to it. The Galaxy are just flat out better. Hard to admit, but they are.

The way that Robson acted last game, and the entire year, really has me hoping that he is let go. I'd rather have him dive then have tantrum after tantrum. It was embarrassing. Dude should go to through some sort of program, or have an intervention thrown. One of the lowest low's I've ever seen from a professional athlete.

The MLS really needs to change it's format. Not a huge fan of the playoffs at year end, and even a lesser fan of having the first round as a 1 game knockout. Huge disservice to both teams. I know the idea behind it, but it serves the first seed better to have the 2 legs. Less chance of an upset.

And the Galaxy have such a sweet stadium. Really bums me out to think that we could have had an amazing uncovered stadium on the waterfront. Would've been one of the most scenic stadiums in the world.

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11-02-2012, 08:26 PM
  #934
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Originally Posted by John Swartzwelder View Post
Chelsea had 44% possesion that game - Caps had 31%. Chelsea had at least some consistent forward pushes, Caps decided to bunker down like i've never seen before. There certainly is a place for counter attacking play, but not to that extreme, that was a horrible decision to become the team that takes everything so hard that it is inevitable that something bad will happen. What, you think a crazy bounce isn't likely when 50% of the game the ball is less than 40 yards from your net? You think that the other team won't penetrate and on any small foul go down like a sack of potatoes for the PK? Really?

It's not Barcelona vs Bhutan here people, these are somewhat evenly matched teams. It's just a pathetic tactic.
Chelsea had 28% possession in both matches against Barcelona. They won 1-0 at Stamford Bridge and drew at Camp Nou while down to 10-men for more than half of it.

LA and Vancouver really aren't very evenly matched. They're not the Barcelona of MLS but they're the easy favourites whenever we play them.

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11-02-2012, 08:31 PM
  #935
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Players I want to see back:

- Knighton, Cannon
- Lee, Demerit, O'Brien, Rochat
- Koffie, Tiebert, Alderson (edit), Richards
- Mattocks, Salgado, Clarke

Maybes:

- Harvey, Bonjour
- Robson, Davidson
- Camilo

Everyone else can find new homes for all I care.


Last edited by Basso: 11-02-2012 at 08:56 PM.
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11-02-2012, 08:39 PM
  #936
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Alderson is a must come back.

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Old
11-02-2012, 08:41 PM
  #937
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Chelsea had 28% possession in both matches against Barcelona. They won 1-0 at Stamford Bridge and drew at Camp Nou while down to 10-men for more than half of it.

LA and Vancouver really aren't very evenly matched. They're not the Barcelona of MLS but they're the easy favourites whenever we play them.
In one game Terry was sent off in the 37th minute, and they were playing the best team in the world at their stadium. You can't compare these two scenarios at all.

Chelsea had so much luck. Robben missed a penalty in extra time, you cannot expect to win more that 5% of the time playing like that.

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11-02-2012, 08:42 PM
  #938
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Did you watch both Chelsea vs Barcelona matches or just basing off stats? Because Chelsea very much did just bunker down and hit on the counter in both legs.

Bottom line is the Whitecaps played the best strategy they could to win. Do I like parking the bus? No. But the loss yesterday came down to two things. Neither of which were tactics or lack of possession.

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11-02-2012, 08:49 PM
  #939
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Did you watch both Chelsea vs Barcelona matches or just basing off stats? Because Chelsea very much did just bunker down and hit on the counter in both legs.

Bottom line is the Whitecaps played the best strategy they could to win. Do I like parking the bus? No. But the loss yesterday came down to two things. Neither of which were tactics or lack of possession.
I'm not talking about Chelsea vs Barcelona, I'm saying in Chelsea vs Bayern, Chelsea had some forward action. And I did watch that game.

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11-02-2012, 08:53 PM
  #940
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Chelsea had 44% possesion that game - Caps had 31%. Chelsea had at least some consistent forward pushes, Caps decided to bunker down like i've never seen before.
Because Chelsea has the talent to push forward, even against Bayern and Barcelona. Besides Mattocks, the Caps don't have anybody who's capable of dictating the play by themselves, either up front or in the middle of the park.

When you're playing against a midfield that has players like Juninho, Beckham, and Magee, there's no way you can compete by stringing passes together - that's why you have to depend on springing a lone striker free from a high defensive line once you get possession of the ball. It is far from a pathetic tactic, and it seems like your inane obsession with possession stats is stopping you from realizing how the difference in personnel explained the defensive tactics last night. I doubt you've watched the sport on a regular basis, otherwise this wouldn't be such a hard concept for you to understand.

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11-02-2012, 09:03 PM
  #941
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Because Chelsea has the talent to push forward, even against Bayern and Barcelona. Besides Mattocks, the Caps don't have anybody who's capable of dictating the play by themselves, either up front or in the middle of the park.

When you're playing against a midfield that has players like Juninho, Beckham, and Magee, there's no way you can compete by stringing passes together - that's why you have to depend on springing a lone striker free from a high defensive line once you get possession of the ball. It is far from a pathetic tactic, and it seems like your inane obsession with possession stats is stopping you from realizing how the difference in personnel explained the defensive tactics last night. I doubt you've watched the sport on a regular basis, otherwise this wouldn't be such a hard concept for you to understand.
There's a difference from "springing a lone striker free from a high defensive line once you get possession of the ball" and "10 men behind the ball at all times".

And yes, I've played and watch soccer since I was 5 years old. Don't give me irrelevant insults because your precious exalted opinion has been challenged.

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11-02-2012, 09:10 PM
  #942
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Sounders keeping some football lines on their field looks bush league.

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11-02-2012, 09:15 PM
  #943
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There's a difference from "springing a lone striker free from a high defensive line once you get possession of the ball" and "10 men behind the ball at all times".

And yes, I've played and watch soccer since I was 5 years old. Don't give me irrelevant insults because your precious exalted opinion has been challenged.
For 60 minutes, every time the Caps got the ball, they tried to hit Mattocks with the long ball. If they had tried to give Mattocks service by pushing the play forward, the outcome of the game would have been decided sooner because a) they don't have the players to create fast, dynamic counterattacks, and b) besides Koffie, they don't have the defensive midfielders that can win the ball back once the Caps' attack sputters due to a missed pass or bad touch. The team simply isn't talented enough to play a possession game for 90 minutes against a team like LA and get a victory.

I'm simply confused, because nobody else involved with the Whitecaps, from other fans, media, to the team itself, has listed lack of possession as a reason why they lost last night. If you watched the game, then that criticism just doesn't make sense.


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11-02-2012, 09:24 PM
  #944
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For 60 minutes, every time the Caps got the ball, they tried to hit Mattocks with the long ball. If they had tried to give Mattocks service by pushing the play forward, the outcome of the game would have been decided sooner because a) they don't have the players to create fast, dynamic counterattacks, and b) besides Koffie, they don't have the defensive midfielders that can win the ball back once the Caps' attack sputters due to a missed pass or bad touch.

I'm simply confused, because nobody else involved with the Whitecaps, from other fans, media, to the team itself, has listed lack of possession as a reason why they lost last night. If you watched the game, then that criticism just doesn't make sense.
It's not a lack of possesion, it's a style of play that creates a lack of possesion. You give control of the game to the other team and hope and pray that your 50 yard aerial passes from your own half miraculously end up in the back of their net. Get the ball on the pitch and make short crisp passes! I've always hated long ball football, always have, always will. You saw that first goal? Watson made a great run and played a great pass to mattocks. Why not do that again? Why just put 10-11 men behind the ball and let them come at you? you did it before, you can do it again.

I agree they had to play on the counter, but take some control of the match, don't just give it to them.

And you say the players are inappropriate, isn't that Rennie's doing as well?

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11-03-2012, 01:30 AM
  #945
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Whitecaps FC daily were interviewing someone last week and they mentioned that the Caps would be looking at bringing in more young central american/caribbean players during the off season and that MLS teams are going to start focusing being a premier destination for the talent that doesn't get a chance to shine in the poor NA countries. Those players see Canada/USA as an escape.

Hopefully the philosophy of the league can trend toward that.
MLS teams have been doing this for years. There are very few "hidden gems" left in CA. Even Colombia is getting blundered by MLS atm.

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Definitely the biggest hole this off-season at the moment. I had hope that Robson could fill that role at the MLS level, but his attitude alone makes me want Rennie to look for a better option.

If Lee retires, the whole right side of the field will need an overhaul, which may make that a bigger priority, though.
This is the biggest concern I saw going forward at about midseason for the Caps. Demerit/Lee/Robson/Miller/Cannon/Thorington are all ancient. Unless next year you can make a smooth transition to a team lead by Koffie/Mattocks/Salgado and Teibert/Alderson/Clarke step up (and you find a young CB) this teams window might already be closing.

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11-03-2012, 01:14 PM
  #946
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MLS teams have been doing this for years. There are very few "hidden gems" left in CA. Even Colombia is getting blundered by MLS atm.



This is the biggest concern I saw going forward at about midseason for the Caps. Demerit/Lee/Robson/Miller/Cannon/Thorington are all ancient. Unless next year you can make a smooth transition to a team lead by Koffie/Mattocks/Salgado and Teibert/Alderson/Clarke step up (and you find a young CB) this teams window might already be closing.
Remember, we also have the #5 (from Philly - why didnt you tank better????) and #10 picks in the MLS Superdraft, I'd be a bit disappointed if we dont come out with an impact player.

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11-04-2012, 02:55 PM
  #947
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Wow! Pathetic reply! Almost on par with "Stick to hockey", offering nothing, making yourself seem arrogant, and masking your lack of things to say.

Quit being so passive aggressive, you're embarrasing yourself.
Yup, I'm the one embarrassing myself.

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MLS teams have been doing this for years. There are very few "hidden gems" left in CA. Even Colombia is getting blundered by MLS atm.



This is the biggest concern I saw going forward at about midseason for the Caps. Demerit/Lee/Robson/Miller/Cannon/Thorington are all ancient. Unless next year you can make a smooth transition to a team lead by Koffie/Mattocks/Salgado and Teibert/Alderson/Clarke step up (and you find a young CB) this teams window might already be closing.
Yeah, I hope some of our academy can get some minutes. I wouldn't expect any to lock down a starting role but I'd like to see if some players could get more than 20 minutes of play during a game.

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11-04-2012, 04:00 PM
  #948
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Remember, we also have the #5 (from Philly - why didnt you tank better????) and #10 picks in the MLS Superdraft, I'd be a bit disappointed if we dont come out with an impact player.
Depends on what Van looks for. Historically the MLS has been poor for teams looking for an AM...Van's biggest hole imo. That said FWD's which Van really doesn't need have proven to do pretty well in quickly (Mattocks). CB's have also shown to transition well to the last few years. Maybe not start from day 1 but this year 3-4 CBs have taken over starting spots as the season has progressed.

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11-04-2012, 09:01 PM
  #949
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Depends on what Van looks for. Historically the MLS has been poor for teams looking for an AM...Van's biggest hole imo. That said FWD's which Van really doesn't need have proven to do pretty well in quickly (Mattocks). CB's have also shown to transition well to the last few years. Maybe not start from day 1 but this year 3-4 CBs have taken over starting spots as the season has progressed.
Also depends on what we mean by "impact" player. Mattocks is a rare case (being able to be a Starting XI player in his draft year). Obviously there are some other guys (like Austin Berry) but it's more likely that we get a player that can provide some depth and look to push for a starting role in a couple years.

If we don't have designs on moving up to a higher position I would love if we could get Kyle Venter in the 5 spot.

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11-04-2012, 09:38 PM
  #950
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Also depends on what we mean by "impact" player. Mattocks is a rare case (being able to be a Starting XI player in his draft year). Obviously there are some other guys (like Austin Berry) but it's more likely that we get a player that can provide some depth and look to push for a starting role in a couple years.

If we don't have designs on moving up to a higher position I would love if we could get Kyle Venter in the 5 spot.
If you take the top 9 picks from last year (your second picks cut off at 10...who isn't a starter but pick 11 is). You see 6 players that are now starters.

With Silva/De Leon/Berry all having near Mattocks like impacts. Same with Hedges at 11. With a few other players later on in the draft having nice impacts as well, like Cascio/Maund/Meyer/Meara (who was a second round pick).

So in conclusion....I think Van could grab a CB and a wide midfielder that can compete for starting spots day one with their picks.

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