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Lighthouse: Nino wasn't alone

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08-14-2012, 03:59 PM
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CREW99AW
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Lighthouse: Nino wasn't alone

Below's an interesting article, including quotes from headcoaches about their own inconsistent and struggling youngsters.

It's not to make NYI fans feel better. I think Nino not being nhl ready and kept up with the big club anyway, is a backeye on te Isles. Not Nino.

Hopefully,he gets a full yr in the AHL in 2012-2013.


http://www.lighthousehockey.com/2012...ears?ref=yahoo
Nino Niederreiter Isn't Alone: 2010 NHL Draft's Tough Rookie Years
by Dominik on Aug 14, 2012 6:15 AM EDT in Islanders in Diapers

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08-14-2012, 07:10 PM
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Nice read.

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08-15-2012, 07:18 AM
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Another interpretation (other than young players learn hard):

Other than Hall, Seguin, Skinner, and (probably) Taresenko, 2010 is going to be seen as a very underwhelming draft. Maybe as bad as 2005 after the top-2 (Crosby, Ryan).

I think people who predict huge outputs for Granlund this year are going to be extremely disappointed. I seem him struggling for few years like Naslund/H. Sedin. I also don't think he has those guys' ceiling.

Cheers,

Dan-o

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08-15-2012, 09:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan-o16 View Post
Another interpretation (other than young players learn hard):

Other than Hall, Seguin, Skinner, and (probably) Taresenko, 2010 is going to be seen as a very underwhelming draft. Maybe as bad as 2005 after the top-2 (Crosby, Ryan).

I think people who predict huge outputs for Granlund this year are going to be extremely disappointed. I seem him struggling for few years like Naslund/H. Sedin. I also don't think he has those guys' ceiling.

Cheers,

Dan-o
We could have taken Skinner.

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08-15-2012, 09:56 AM
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We could have taken Skinner.
Yeah, and 9 teams passed on Anze Kopitar, the 2nd best player drafted in 2005. What's the point?

Cheers,

Dan-p

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08-15-2012, 10:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan-o16 View Post
Yeah, and 9 teams passed on Anze Kopitar, the 2nd best player drafted in 2005. What's the point?

Cheers,

Dan-p
What was your point of saying:

Other than Hall, Seguin, Skinner, and (probably) Taresenko, 2010 is going to be seen as a very underwhelming draft. Maybe as bad as 2005 after the top-2 (Crosby, Ryan).

Does it excuse our pick?

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08-15-2012, 11:56 AM
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Of course, as we all know, After one terrible season, Nino Niederreiter has no chance of ever becoming a good player, despite only becoming 20 this summer. His career is over, complete bust, finished, loser, done.

Man, talk about no patience, how about we give Nino 3 full seasons before we call him a bust. Joe Thornton had 7 points as a rookie, and in recent memory, Seguin didnt have the greatest rookie season ever, and as mentioned in the article, several others had tough times. Doesn't mean they won't become good to great players, patience is needed. Much like defense, power forwards take longer than average size to smaller forwards to progress (Skinner).

Also, let's not forget the offensive powerhouses Nino got to play with last year, Jay Pandolfo, who scored 1 goal and 2 assists last year, and that great offensive center Marty Reasoner 1 goal and 5 whole assists (what a setup man). If he's scoring only 1 goal a season by season 3, then I'm with you guys, but let's give this kid some time. He's dominated against kids older than him in juniors and the World Junior Hockey Championships, let's see where he's at at 21 and 22.

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08-15-2012, 12:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beach View Post
What was your point of saying:

Other than Hall, Seguin, Skinner, and (probably) Taresenko, 2010 is going to be seen as a very underwhelming draft. Maybe as bad as 2005 after the top-2 (Crosby, Ryan).

Does it excuse our pick?
I don't know. What do you think?

I think a pick in a bad draft has a better chance of being bad than a pick in a good draft. Pretty clearly, the 2003 Nilsson pick was inexcusable. Also, pretty clearly, the 2005 O'Marra pick was excusable.

Other picks that were inexcusable: Koskinen, Dehart, Rosen. Ugh.

In general, I wouldn't call a pick inexcusable just because a good player is drafted after him.

Cheers,

Dan-o

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08-15-2012, 12:06 PM
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Of course, as we all know, After one terrible season, Nino Niederreiter has no chance of ever becoming a good player, despite only becoming 20 this summer. His career is over, complete bust, finished, loser, done.
That's true. But, similarly, sometimes people have lofty expectations based solely on draft position.

Cheers,

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08-15-2012, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Dan-o16 View Post
That's true. But, similarly, sometimes people have lofty expectations based solely on draft position.

Cheers,

Dan-o
I still have lofty expectations, from what I've seen of Nino, I don't see him as a bust type. This is a guy who has skills (great hands for a big guy), and determination to be great (singlehandedly beating the Russians in 2010 WJHC). I think with improved skating and added strength, he can be a 30 goal a year power forward. I thought that when we drafted him (LOVED the pick, he was my favorite player not named Hall or Seguin), and still feel he will get there. But as I stated, patience will be needed, I'd hate to see another Bertuzzi situation.

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08-15-2012, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Dan-o16 View Post
Yeah, and 9 teams passed on Anze Kopitar, the 2nd best player drafted in 2005. What's the point?

Cheers,

Dan-p
you can be mad at teams when they go off the board and do something unexpected nino wasn't ranked as high as he was drafted and skinner at 5 would've been awesome

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08-15-2012, 01:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan-o16 View Post
I don't know. What do you think?

I think a pick in a bad draft has a better chance of being bad than a pick in a good draft. Pretty clearly, the 2003 Nilsson pick was inexcusable. Also, pretty clearly, the 2005 O'Marra pick was excusable.

Other picks that were inexcusable: Koskinen, Dehart, Rosen. Ugh.

In general, I wouldn't call a pick inexcusable just because a good player is drafted after him.

Cheers,

Dan-o
You're right. If Nino simply does not work out and the 2010 draft sucks as a whole then yeah, **** happens.

But sticking a 19 year old on the NHL roster for an entire year despite very clearly not being ready and forcing him to be a healthy scratch for half the season when he could instead be playing every other night in the WHL... then justifying his lack of production and development with, "well most of the 2010 draft sucked" is completely irrational.

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08-15-2012, 01:45 PM
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But sticking a 19 year old on the NHL roster for an entire year despite very clearly not being ready and forcing him to be a healthy scratch for half the season when he could instead be playing every other night in the WHL... then justifying his lack of production and development with, "well most of the 2010 draft sucked" is completely irrational.
Well, then I'm glad I didn't do that.

Cheers,

Dan-o

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08-15-2012, 02:42 PM
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Of course, as we all know, After one terrible season, Nino Niederreiter has no chance of ever becoming a good player, despite only becoming 20 this summer. His career is over, complete bust, finished, loser, done.

Man, talk about no patience, how about we give Nino 3 full seasons before we call him a bust. Joe Thornton had 7 points as a rookie, and in recent memory, Seguin didnt have the greatest rookie season ever, and as mentioned in the article, several others had tough times. Doesn't mean they won't become good to great players, patience is needed. Much like defense, power forwards take longer than average size to smaller forwards to progress (Skinner).

Also, let's not forget the offensive powerhouses Nino got to play with last year, Jay Pandolfo, who scored 1 goal and 2 assists last year, and that great offensive center Marty Reasoner 1 goal and 5 whole assists (what a setup man). If he's scoring only 1 goal a season by season 3, then I'm with you guys, but let's give this kid some time. He's dominated against kids older than him in juniors and the World Junior Hockey Championships, let's see where he's at at 21 and 22.

One of the sillest notions, not just on HF, but on quite a few boards is from opposing fans...Nino was so bad that the isles have soured on him, so let's get him dirt cheap.

They fail to realize that the isles know better then anyone, that they rushed Nino and kept him up for cap reasons, when he would have been better served being sent back to juniors, when it became clear he was overwhelmed.

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08-15-2012, 02:47 PM
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you can be mad at teams when they go off the board and do something unexpected nino wasn't ranked as high as he was drafted and skinner at 5 would've been awesome

ISS had Nino ranked 6th overall in it's June 2010 final rankings.

Bob McKenzie had Nino ranked 7th overall in his final June rankings.
http://www.tsn.ca/draftcentre/feature/?id=24944

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08-15-2012, 02:49 PM
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You're right. If Nino simply does not work out and the 2010 draft sucks as a whole then yeah, **** happens.

But sticking a 19 year old on the NHL roster for an entire year despite very clearly not being ready and forcing him to be a healthy scratch for half the season when he could instead be playing every other night in the WHL... then justifying his lack of production and development with, "well most of the 2010 draft sucked" is completely irrational.
Nino's struggles in the NHL at 19 yrs old, fall on the isles, not on the player imo.

When they saw he was struggling, responding to his struggles by gripping the stick harder and putting even more pressure on himself, it was up to Snow to send him down.

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08-15-2012, 06:38 PM
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you can be mad at teams when they go off the board and do something unexpected nino wasn't ranked as high as he was drafted and skinner at 5 would've been awesome
Skinner wasn't rated in the top 10, hell, the Hockey News had him rated 25th or something. Some felt he was a reach at #7 overall.

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08-15-2012, 07:09 PM
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i thought it was a bad pick when it happened. still think it is especially after how skinner and fowler have been playing

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08-16-2012, 03:10 PM
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Didn't see any Red Wings mentioned in that article. Oh wait, the Red Wings develop their players properly and don't put the players in a postion to fail. Some teams get it and some don't. Too bad I root for one that doesn't get it. Can we get Jimmy D. back?

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08-16-2012, 04:02 PM
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I remember being somewhat bummed that we didn't take Fowler but Nino was a sound pick at the time. Skinner would have been good too, but I could have sworn there was something about him that kept him in the 6-10 range. Connolly was also there, he was like the Galchenyuk of that class but probably a bigger risk. Anyway, it's 20/20 hindsight but I don't think that pick was much of a reach.

BTW, IIRC, that was a year that we were in position for the #2 slot but made a late push for no reason. I was more peeved about that at the time, still kills me that we could have had Tavares and Seguin down the middle.

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08-16-2012, 06:32 PM
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Didn't see any Red Wings mentioned in that article. Oh wait, the Red Wings develop their players properly and don't put the players in a postion to fail. Some teams get it and some don't. Too bad I root for one that doesn't get it. Can we get Jimmy D. back?
This spring the Red Wings 2010 first trounder,Riley Sheahan, left college a yr early. He is telling the press, that he hopes to stick with the Wings in 2012-2013

If it was an Isles prospect leaving a yr early and talking about making the NHL, the isles would be blasted

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08-16-2012, 07:37 PM
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This spring the Red Wings 2010 first trounder,Riley Sheahan, left college a yr early. He is telling the press, that he hopes to stick with the Wings in 2012-2013

If it was an Isles prospect leaving a yr early and talking about making the NHL, the isles would be blasted
Let's compare their draft picks to ours. And yes, we pick much, much earlier.

Any one wanna volunteer for free to be our west coast talent scout?

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08-16-2012, 08:00 PM
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Skinner wasn't rated in the top 10, hell, the Hockey News had him rated 25th or something. Some felt he was a reach at #7 overall.
How's Grigorenko looking, BTW?

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08-16-2012, 09:13 PM
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Let's compare their draft picks to ours. And yes, we pick much, much earlier.
:
We also spend below the cap floor, while the Wings spend near the cap ceiling.

Before a cap was put in place, the Wings had payrolls in the $60m-$70m range.

Is it really a shock that a team with a $60m-$70m payroll, spending heavily on vets/big name players would keep many of their prospects in the NCAA,juniors and Europe ?

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08-16-2012, 09:27 PM
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We also spend below the cap floor, while the Wings spend near the cap ceiling.

Before a cap was put in place, the Wings had payrolls in the $60m-$70m range.

Is it really a shock that a team with a $60m-$70m payroll, spending heavily on vets/big name players would keep many of their prospects in the NCAA,juniors and Europe ?
irrelevant. The Wings by policy, since Jimmy D ran the show, do NOT touch kids until they are 100% ready. We're going back before the Chaissons days. The foundation of their team, LIKE OURS WAS AND IS ALLEGEDLY NOW, is the best scouting and development of prospects to ensure they can continue winning. We had money back when Rick was rushed. We never upgraded our scouting or GM role, though. We never made it our defined purpose to make development our priority. We rushed kids from college to our AHL team and up to the pros a few times since Smith made a stink. Fans still make a stink about players staying in Europe out of our reach. It's not he team alone but the fanbase that want to looksie. Wang, I'm sure, likes cheap help.

But read up on Ilitch, his philosophy on winning and all the organization's, in effect, BY-LAWS set since he got sick of seeing his team draw only 3,000 fans a game. If I won powerball and had $200M to buy the team and just rid NY of Wanger, THIS is the textbook approach I would emulate.


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