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08-18-2012, 04:37 AM
  #1
Al Swearengen
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Burrows Survey

I was looking at the posts on the Burrows contract talks thread, and I got to thinking about the magnificent *******. Please answer the following questions so we can get a little consensus on where he stands historically.

1. When was the last time a player of Burrows' skill level was this popular with the fans?

2. Is there a comparable player in Canucks history? If so, in what way?

3. Is he your favourite current Canuck?

4. If he gets a cup and retires with the Nucks, is possible that he might see his jersey hung in the rafters?

5. How many cups would he need to make the HOF if he only scored 500 points in his career but continued to be a big playoff factor in the cup runs?

6. Is he the beating, biting heart of the team? He, Kes and KB are often heralded as such as a group, but I'm talking about one player only being the so-called heart and soul.

7. Exactly how good is Alexandre Burrows?

Just looking for a discussion, I know the hall of fame stuff is pretty out there.


Last edited by Al Swearengen: 08-18-2012 at 04:42 AM.
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08-18-2012, 04:53 AM
  #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Swearengen View Post
I was looking at the posts on the Burrows contract talks thread, and I got to thinking about the magnificent *******. Please answer the following questions so we can get a little consensus on where he stands historically.

1. When was the last time a player of Burrows' skill level was this popular with the fans?

2. Is there a comparable player in Canucks history? If so, in what way?

3. Is he your favourite current Canuck?

4. If he gets a cup and retires with the Nucks, is possible that he might see his jersey hung in the rafters?

5. How many cups would he need to make the HOF if he only scored 500 points in his career but continued to be a big playoff factor in the cup runs?

6. Is he the beating, biting heart of the team? He, Kes and KB are often heralded as such as a group, but I'm talking about one player only being the so-called heart and soul.

7. Exactly how good is Alexandre Burrows?

Just looking for a discussion, I know the hall of fame stuff is pretty out there.
1. Skill level? Solid 2nd liner/occasional 1st? Cliff Ronning.

2. Again, gotta go with Cliff.

3. Beats out Kesler by a game 7 OT Chicago elimination goal.

4. Wow.... uh really? At this point I'd hang every player's number on the roster that got us a cup.

5. If you are making the Hall you gotta look at Bure for the standard without a cup.

6. Kes BXA and Burr are my favorite players on this team. All three bleed blue and green.

7. How good is he? Slightly Underrated in the eyes of the rest of the league, mildy overrated by nux fans. Worth 4 million, worth alot more of that to the culture of the team as it stands now.

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08-18-2012, 05:09 AM
  #3
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1. Not to sure, Burrows is amongst the most popular Canucks of all time, and the guys above him had a greater level of skill.

2. Yea, Cliff Ronning is a very reasonable player to compare him to.

3. No. Burrows is awesome but it's tough to put him ahead of Kesler, the Sedins, and Edler. Plus it wouldn't be easy to take him over Luongo or Schneider.

4. No. Unless he wins the Conn Smythe Trophy or at the very least scores the Stanley Cup winning goal.

5. 3 maybe 4 cups, and would have to at the very least hover in around a point per game, score some more of the biggest goals in franchise history, and would need to win the Conn Smythe Trophy during those cups.

6. Probably.

7. Legit second line player, who can play up and down the line up as necessary. Very solid two way play, great penalty kill, can do it all. Any team would be lucky to have him.

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08-18-2012, 11:28 AM
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Swearengen View Post
I was looking at the posts on the Burrows contract talks thread, and I got to thinking about the magnificent *******. Please answer the following questions so we can get a little consensus on where he stands historically.

1. When was the last time a player of Burrows' skill level was this popular with the fans?

2. Is there a comparable player in Canucks history? If so, in what way?

He isn't Stan Smyl.

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08-18-2012, 11:39 AM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Swearengen View Post
1. When was the last time a player of Burrows' skill level was this popular with the fans?

2. Is there a comparable player in Canucks history? If so, in what way?
I'd answer both of these with the same person - Greg Adams. Adams was a big bodied guy who went to the dirty areas and came through in the clutch. Not as much of a pain in the rear as Burr, but in terms of big goals and actual playing style, I'd say their fairly similar.

Quote:
3. Is he your favourite current Canuck?
One of them. I hold he, Kesler, the Twins and Bieksa in about equal esteem.

Quote:
4. If he gets a cup and retires with the Nucks, is possible that he might see his jersey hung in the rafters?
Possible, yes. If he retires with the team, it will mean he played close to 1,000 games here which is no small feat. If he does that and wins a Cup, I would gurantee his number would be retired.

Quote:
5. How many cups would he need to make the HOF if he only scored 500 points in his career but continued to be a big playoff factor in the cup runs?
I can't see him being enough of a playoff factor to warrant being in the HOF. Maybe if the team won five Cups with him winning several Conn Smythes he'd get some consideration, but I still don't see it.

Quote:
6. Is he the beating, biting heart of the team? He, Kes and KB are often heralded as such as a group, but I'm talking about one player only being the so-called heart and soul.
I think the team reflects more on Kesler, actually. When he's going, it seems the entire team is, and vice versa. However, when the team is down and in need of a big play, Burrows always seems to come to the plate.

Quote:
7. Exactly how good is Alexandre Burrows?
A very good top-six forward with elite level defensive ability. A big-game player.

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08-18-2012, 11:52 AM
  #6
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3. Is he your favourite current Canuck?

Nope. Jannik Hansen.

4. If he gets a cup and retires with the Nucks, is possible that he might see his jersey hung in the rafters?

I would love if jersey-hanging was MORE of a sentimentality based thing, in which case, I'd consider it. But since it's as much of a technical thing, definitely not.

5. How many cups would he need to make the HOF if he only scored 500 points in his career but continued to be a big playoff factor in the cup runs?

He's never making the HOF.

6. Is he the beating, biting heart of the team? He, Kes and KB are often heralded as such as a group, but I'm talking about one player only being the so-called heart and soul.

Yes, much more-so than Kesler or Bieksa, IMO. Personally, I don't consider Bieksa in that tier at all, but he's a damn likeable guy who shows his heart every once in a while. I don't think there's any doubt that he alone is the heart and soul of this team, though.

7. Exactly how good is Alexandre Burrows?

This team's work ethic and ability to handle pressure falls apart without Burrows, IMO. I think he's about as "good" as most 40-50 point Selke-level players, personally, but he's not ever going to be carrying our offense without massive help from the Sedins or anything, though.

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08-18-2012, 12:09 PM
  #7
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I'm probably too young to answer the first two questions accurately.

3. Is he your favourite current Canuck?
He's second behind Luongo for me. Guys like Bieksa, Kesler and the twins are all close.

4. If he gets a cup and retires with the Nucks, is possible that he might see his jersey hung in the rafters?
Doubt it. No offense to Burrows, but our standards can't be that low for retiring jerseys. He's a fine player, but jersey retirement should be reserved for the elite.

5. How many cups would he need to make the HOF if he only scored 500 points in his career but continued to be a big playoff factor in the cup runs?
Every year from here on until the end of his career? He just doesn't have the numbers.

6. Is he the beating, biting heart of the team? He, Kes and KB are often heralded as such as a group, but I'm talking about one player only being the so-called heart and soul.
I always think of Bieksa as the one guy that would fit this mould, but I guess we can't really be sure unless we're actually in the dressing room. You can only tell so much from on-ice play. Burrows is certainly a part of the leadership group here though.

7. Exactly how good is Alexandre Burrows?
Very good third-liner who can fit into a top-6 role and not look out of place. Has a knack for scoring big goals, but I wouldn't rely on him to carry his linemates if he's playing in a top-6. Great penalty killer and one of the better defensive wingers in the league.

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08-18-2012, 12:15 PM
  #8
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1. When was the last time a player of Burrows' skill level was this popular with the fans? -

I'd say Cliff Ronning

2. Is there a comparable player in Canucks history? If so, in what way? -

Again, Cliff Ronning would be a good choice

3. Is he your favourite current Canuck? -

Edler, but he's tied for second with Hamhuis and Kes

4. If he gets a cup and retires with the Nucks, is possible that he might see his jersey hung in the rafters? -

If he continues his play, continues to bleed blue and green, retires here, and wins a cup (he can win more if he wants ) sure, I'd love to see it up there.

5. How many cups would he need to make the HOF if he only scored 500 points in his career but continued to be a big playoff factor in the cup runs? -

I doubt a player who plays like him will make the HOF. But if they start making it, winning 3 or 4 cups, playing at this level the rest of his career, and winning at least 1 Conn Smythe could get him there

6. Is he the beating, biting heart of the team? He, Kes and KB are often heralded as such as a group, but I'm talking about one player only being the so-called heart and soul. -

Oh, definately

7. Exactly how good is Alexandre Burrows? -

A top-6 talent on any team, but found his niche as a #1 winger in Vancouver. Worth around 4-4.5 million to the Canucks, 3.5 anywhere else

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08-18-2012, 12:20 PM
  #9
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I like this thread. I do always think your threads should be peppered with more colourful language though, if you're going to take the Swearengen name.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Swearengen View Post
I was looking at the posts on the Burrows contract talks thread, and I got to thinking about the magnificent *******. Please answer the following questions so we can get a little consensus on where he stands historically.

1. When was the last time a player of Burrows' skill level was this popular with the fans?

2. Is there a comparable player in Canucks history? If so, in what way?
I'm not sure I understand the first question. Burrows' skillset might be different than top players, but in the past four seasons he's unquestionaby one of the Top 10 RW in hockey, and at ES he's probably Top 5 in terms of one-ice performance offensively. He doesn't play a flashy game, but combined with his penalty killing and defensive play, he's an elite player.

He's obviously propped up by his "perfect match" with the Sedins, but so what? When a line works, it works.

Still, if you want a comparable, I'll give you Trevor Linden. It took Burrows a lot longer to get there, but in his prime Burrows is an elite 1st line player. Linden was probably more of a glorified 2nd liner in his prime -- though I'm sure that will enrage Canucks fans. Still, they were both blood and guts players who left everything on the ice, were responsible at both ends of the rink, killed penalties, and were unassuming in their own different ways.

We'll see what Burrows' longevitity is, but his past four seasons eclipse anything Linden ever did, in my opinion, but he has better linemates so it might be a wash.

Quote:
3. Is he your favourite current Canuck?
No.

Quote:
4. If he gets a cup and retires with the Nucks, is possible that he might see his jersey hung in the rafters?
I don't think he needs to win a cup -- if he does, he's probably a lock. If he plays another 4-6 good seasons with the Sedins he has a shot, even if the they end up as a "just" good 2nd line in 2-3 seasons.

Quote:
5. How many cups would he need to make the HOF if he only scored 500 points in his career but continued to be a big playoff factor in the cup runs?
He already has 270 points. Even if he wins 6 cups in a row, in those 6 years he'd average 40 points. It simply will not happen. There is a 0% chance Alex Burrows would make the Hall of Fame under those conditions. There's a 0% chance otherwise, too.

Quote:
6. Is he the beating, biting heart of the team? He, Kes and KB are often heralded as such as a group, but I'm talking about one player only being the so-called heart and soul.
I reject the premise. I think the concept is mostly silly, and it becomes sillier and sillier when you try to narrow it down to just one or two players that "drive" a team. He might help set the tone for the squad, but I can't see why he'd be more important than other key players.

I think it takes a core of players to set the work ethic for a team. If anything, some of Burrows detrimental antics on the ice have probably undercut the tone set by other key players. It's the only real blemish on his game.

Quote:
7. Exactly how good is Alexandre Burrows?
I don't know. I do know he probably works as hard as anyone in the league to achieve what he does, though, which is probably why people like him so much.

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08-18-2012, 12:22 PM
  #10
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1. When was the last time a player of Burrows' skill level was this popular with the fans?
Bertuzzi during WCE days? Maybe?

2. Is there a comparable player in Canucks history? If so, in what way?
Makes me think of Cliff Ronning.

3. Is he your favourite current Canuck?
Probably him and Hamhuis.

4. If he gets a cup and retires with the Nucks, is possible that he might see his jersey hung in the rafters?
Doubtful. Ring of Honor.

5. How many cups would he need to make the HOF if he only scored 500 points in his career but continued to be a big playoff factor in the cup runs?
A dozen. 500 points won't do it.

6. Is he the beating, biting heart of the team? He, Kes and KB are often heralded as such as a group, but I'm talking about one player only being the so-called heart and soul.
No I wouldn't say so. I'm not sure Vancouver has such a player.

7. Exactly how good is Alexandre Burrows?
Extremely. Super intelligent and skilled. Highly underrated.

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08-18-2012, 12:39 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Swearengen View Post
I was looking at the posts on the Burrows contract talks thread, and I got to thinking about the magnificent *******. Please answer the following questions so we can get a little consensus on where he stands historically.

1. When was the last time a player of Burrows' skill level was this popular with the fans?

2. Is there a comparable player in Canucks history? If so, in what way?
I'd say that Greg Adams and Marty Gelinas are the closest comparables. They were both hard workers, and their impact was always underrated. Taking any of the 3 off their respective teams had a big negative impact.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Swearengen View Post
3. Is he your favourite current Canuck?
Yes!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Swearengen View Post
4. If he gets a cup and retires with the Nucks, is possible that he might see his jersey hung in the rafters?
It's unlikely he'll have the numbers for that. You can't retire more than one or two players a decade and the Sedins are surely going up there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Swearengen View Post
5. How many cups would he need to make the HOF if he only scored 500 points in his career but continued to be a big playoff factor in the cup runs?
I think the hockey world outside of Vancouver unfairly holds Burrows in disdain, so I don't think he'll even be considered.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Swearengen View Post
6. Is he the beating, biting heart of the team? He, Kes and KB are often heralded as such as a group, but I'm talking about one player only being the so-called heart and soul.
Yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Swearengen View Post
7. Exactly how good is Alexandre Burrows?
He is a first line player in the NHL. People can say otherwise, but the reality of the past several seasons says otherwise. His progression from the ECHL to a first line NHLer is amazing and inspiring. He earned it all through hardwork. That makes him a legend. He'll likely never get the respect he deserves outside of Vancouver. He should go in the ring of honour for sure.

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08-18-2012, 12:42 PM
  #12
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To re-iterate the point I made, I'm amazed how many people don't realize how elite Burrows' production has been, particularly at even strength. People are comparing him to players that put up similar point totals in eras where the top scorers in the league were dropping 150+ points a season.

If Burrows and the Sedins played in the late 80's/early 90s they'd probably combine for 400+ points a season...

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08-18-2012, 01:42 PM
  #13
vadim sharifijanov
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1. When was the last time a player of Burrows' skill level was this popular with the fans?

i agree with everyone else. cliff ronning is a good choice.


2. Is there a comparable player in Canucks history? If so, in what way?

burrows is pretty unique in that he has elements of a bunch of other former non-all-star fan favourites (smyl excluded), but eclipses them all.

i. as mentioned above, his clutchness is in the same breath as gus adams. you might also say geoff courtnall there, but adams was more beloved because gus was less of a natural talent, scored in the dirty areas, and it felt like he worked for every goal. you know, self-made man stuff-- which is ironic because both guys were undrafted and clawed their way into the league.

ii. another comparable is gelinas, also mentioned above. guy came here with his career in the toilet, though gelinas was a former high pick, and worked his way from a bottom six grinder to a top line 30 goal scorer. gelinas also was known to score big goals, though sadly those exploits didn't really happen here.

iii. this is going to be out of left field, but artem chubarov. ten years later and we're still talking about that guy. burrows is a defensive and penalty-killing beast in a way that adams wasn't, and neither really was gelinas. as a fanbase with historically run-and-gun teams (quinn, crawford), we tend to love elite defensive forwards.

iv. this is also going to be weird, but i think part of what makes us love burrows so much is because there have been a couple of times in recent memory where we basically wished for an alex burrows to appear. of course he didn't, because that kind of player emerging at no cost from out of nowhere is extremely rare:

a. first example is matt cooke. and i don't mean matt cooke's entire career here, just the month where he replaced bertuzzi on the top line after the steve moore incident. he showed better offensive skills than was expected, scored a few big goals along the way. if it had panned out the way we all were wishing (and knowing would never actually happen), he would have been alex burrows.

b. second example is magnus arvedson. great defensive winger put on the sedin line and becomes their mythical "ideal right winger." if he'd been healthy, maybe it would have worked out. but i think again we were trying to will something that wasn't likely to actually happen. again, if the best case scenario with arvedson had worked out, he would have been alex burrows.


3. Is he your favourite current Canuck?

sometimes. i don't have a constant favourite canuck like when bure was here. sometimes it's hansen, sometimes it's edler, sometimes it's henrik, bieksa, or higgins. i will say that burrows is probably in my top spot more consistently than any of those other guys. very rarely does burrows let me down like most of the guys on the team have at a number of points.


4. If he gets a cup and retires with the Nucks, is possible that he might see his jersey hung in the rafters?

if he continues to score big goals and put up big points, then undoubtedly. i think there's always room for this kind of player to have his jersey in the rafters. some fans think it's embarrassing or a disgrace that heart and soul complementary players get honoured in this way. but the way i see it, it's much more of a disgrace to look up in the rafters in washington and see mike gartner's number than it is to look up and see dale hunter's.


5. How many cups would he need to make the HOF if he only scored 500 points in his career but continued to be a big playoff factor in the cup runs?

all of them, until the end of time. tonelli and tikkanen aren't hall of famers, and i'd have a hard time seeing burrows equal their careers when all is said and done.


6. Is he the beating, biting heart of the team? He, Kes and KB are often heralded as such as a group, but I'm talking about one player only being the so-called heart and soul.

i think so. it's a weird comparison, but i think of how steve nash is considered one of the greatest leaders in basketball over the last ten years. you see a guy like that, too small, not strong, not particularly fast, but the guy works so incredibly hard-- both in games and in developing/improving his game in practice and on his own time-- it's infectious. as a more talented player, you'd have to be a real p.o.s. (cody hodgson?) to see burrows and then just think you can demand ice time instead of earning it.

of course, that's partly an illusion. nash and burrows may have below average physical gifts and skills, but they are also near the very top of the league in terms of how they think the game. when a guy that smart works that hard...

but still, even considering that bieksa and kesler are to a degree self-made stars, there is something inspirational that the team seems to feed off of in burrows.


7. Exactly how good is Alexandre Burrows?

good enough to push two superstars to elite, MVP-type heights. good enough also to be one-half of the most devastating PK forward unit this city has ever seen.

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08-18-2012, 06:45 PM
  #14
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Quote:
3. Is he your favourite current Canuck?
Yes.

(Luongo and Bieksa are essentially equal too, but I decided about a year ago that Burrows is my favourite. Those three are equal, Burrows is just more equal.)

He is the definition of clutch on this team. I surely don't need to list the examples here. The OT goal against Chicago is arguably the most important goal in Canucks history.

Factor in his improbable rise from undrafted ECHL player to a 1st line NHLer, his "heart and soul" position on the team, and his funny and humble personality, and you have the makings of one of the most important players in Canucks history. He may not make the Ring of Honour or the record books, but I'll always remember him as one of the key cogs in this era's team.

Definitely my favourite player on the team.

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08-18-2012, 07:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Swearengen View Post
I was looking at the posts on the Burrows contract talks thread, and I got to thinking about the magnificent *******. Please answer the following questions so we can get a little consensus on where he stands historically.

1. When was the last time a player of Burrows' skill level was this popular with the fans?

2. Is there a comparable player in Canucks history? If so, in what way?

3. Is he your favourite current Canuck?

4. If he gets a cup and retires with the Nucks, is possible that he might see his jersey hung in the rafters?

5. How many cups would he need to make the HOF if he only scored 500 points in his career but continued to be a big playoff factor in the cup runs?

6. Is he the beating, biting heart of the team? He, Kes and KB are often heralded as such as a group, but I'm talking about one player only being the so-called heart and soul.

7. Exactly how good is Alexandre Burrows?

Just looking for a discussion, I know the hall of fame stuff is pretty out there.
1. Brendan Morrison or Ronning
2. Anson Carter although a bit better. Hard-nosed player with decent talent who racks up big numbers playing with the twins.
3. No, Daniel Sedin is.
4. Doubtful, but then again they really lowered the bar by retiring Naslund's number. RoH material though...
5. At the very least 2 Conn Smyth trophies to overcome pedestrian regular season career totals.
6. No, Daniel and Henrik are the engines of the team. Kesler and Luongo aren't far behind.
7. A hard-nosed go to the net 20 goal guy that gets a 50% increase in production playing with the Sedin's.

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Old
08-18-2012, 08:49 PM
  #16
Al Swearengen
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I like this thread. I do always think your threads should be peppered with more colourful language though, if you're going to take the Swearengen name.
I'm a very creative swearer, and I think a lot of the finer bits might get lost. Notice I said finer bits, and not minouche (instead of minutia).

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08-18-2012, 09:40 PM
  #17
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Didn't look at other posts before answering, answers below in bold.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Swearengen View Post
I was looking at the posts on the Burrows contract talks thread, and I got to thinking about the magnificent *******. Please answer the following questions so we can get a little consensus on where he stands historically.

1. When was the last time a player of Burrows' skill level was this popular with the fans?
-Bieksa

2. Is there a comparable player in Canucks history? If so, in what way?
-Gelinas, clutch, 3rd liner who played as a 1st liner, scored goals

3. Is he your favourite current Canuck?
-no, he's about 5th (both goalies are ahead of him)

4. If he gets a cup and retires with the Nucks, is possible that he might see his jersey hung in the rafters?
-not even close

5. How many cups would he need to make the HOF if he only scored 500 points in his career but continued to be a big playoff factor in the cup runs?
-13, not kidding, the guy doesn't get in the HHOF with 500 points unless he sets a new record for Cups or alternatively, 3 Conn Smythe trophies along with 3 Cups

6. Is he the beating, biting heart of the team? He, Kes and KB are often heralded as such as a group, but I'm talking about one player only being the so-called heart and soul.
-KB, Kes, and Burr are all big in the leadership group. I think the team goes as the Sedins go ultimately though.

7. Exactly how good is Alexandre Burrows?
-solid top 6 forward, wouldn't want him carrying a line

Just looking for a discussion, I know the hall of fame stuff is pretty out there.


Last edited by DJOpus: 08-18-2012 at 09:55 PM.
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08-18-2012, 09:54 PM
  #18
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Originally Posted by Proto View Post
To re-iterate the point I made, I'm amazed how many people don't realize how elite Burrows' production has been, particularly at even strength. People are comparing him to players that put up similar point totals in eras where the top scorers in the league were dropping 150+ points a season.

If Burrows and the Sedins played in the late 80's/early 90s they'd probably combine for 400+ points a season...
I agree that Burrows' even strength production has been pretty torrid lately (in the top 5 in ES goals over the last 4 years combined) however he's generally in larger pack every season but people who score more than him have been hurt here and there allowing him to pass them. He hasn't blown away the field by any stretch.

When league leaders were scoring 150+ points, usually it was guys named Gretzky, Lemieux, and to a lesser extent Yzerman (and the guys on their teams) who were blowing away the competition and three or four guys in the low 100s/upper 90s...take away Gretzky, Lemieux, Yzerman and their teammates and the leading scorer lists looks a lot like it does now (which is similar to how it looked prior to their arrival in the league).

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08-18-2012, 10:00 PM
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4. Doubtful, but then again they really lowered the bar by retiring Naslund's number. RoH material though...
This is rediculous, I'm not sure that I would have retired Naslund's number but he won a major award as a Canuck (Lester B. Pearson) and was an end of year all-star three times...guys like Linden and Smyl couldn't dream of being in that class of hockey player.

I think as far as jersey number retirements go, it should be 1) Bure and possibly 2) Naslund...nobody else should have their number retired. Ring of honor is where guys like Linden and Smyl should be.

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08-18-2012, 10:02 PM
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lol.....Hall of fame. Come on. He'd need like six cups in a row. That's crazy talk.

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08-18-2012, 10:39 PM
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Al Swearengen
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Originally Posted by DJOpus View Post
I think as far as jersey number retirements go, it should be 1) Bure and possibly 2) Naslund...nobody else should have their number retired. Ring of honor is where guys like Linden and Smyl should be.
I can't argue for Steamer since I was born in '82, but I'm with Shareef on the sentimentality argument. Linden was a genuine class act, the franchise's greatest leader, and spent 17 years with the club. Just because he wasn't an elite scorer doesn't mean he doesn't mean as much or more to the Canucks.

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08-19-2012, 12:01 AM
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Ogie Goldthorpe
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1. When was the last time a player of Burrows' skill level was this popular with the fans?
1980's maybe. Tiger Williams had some similarities

2. Is there a comparable player in Canucks history? If so, in what way?
Bobby Schmautz... 30 goal scorer. Nasty competitor.

3. Is he your favourite current Canuck?
No, but he's close. I like Hansen, and I'm going to like Kassian, I hope.

4. If he gets a cup and retires with the Nucks, is possible that he might see his jersey hung in the rafters?
No

5. How many cups would he need to make the HOF if he only scored 500 points in his career but continued to be a big playoff factor in the cup runs?
If Wayne Cashman didn't make it, Burrows won't.

6. Is he the beating, biting heart of the team? He, Kes and KB are often heralded as such as a group, but I'm talking about one player only being the so-called heart and soul.
For this squad, Henrik is probably THE Canuck

7. Exactly how good is Alexandre Burrows?
He's in the Canucks Hall of the Very Good... Gelinas, Skriko, Ronning, Sundstrom, Boudrias, Schmautz, G. Courtnall and Adams would be historically comparable in terms of what they contributed to the team.


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08-19-2012, 12:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Al Swearengen View Post
I was looking at the posts on the Burrows contract talks thread, and I got to thinking about the magnificent *******. Please answer the following questions so we can get a little consensus on where he stands historically.

1. When was the last time a player of Burrows' skill level was this popular with the fans?

2. Is there a comparable player in Canucks history? If so, in what way?

3. Is he your favourite current Canuck?

4. If he gets a cup and retires with the Nucks, is possible that he might see his jersey hung in the rafters?

5. How many cups would he need to make the HOF if he only scored 500 points in his career but continued to be a big playoff factor in the cup runs?

6. Is he the beating, biting heart of the team? He, Kes and KB are often heralded as such as a group, but I'm talking about one player only being the so-called heart and soul.

7. Exactly how good is Alexandre Burrows?

Just looking for a discussion, I know the hall of fame stuff is pretty out there.
1. Dunno
2. Good 2 way play and 30ish goals. Probably?
3. Nah. Edler, Kesler, Daniel.
4. No.
5. He wouldn't unless he broke Richard's record. If he won multiple conn smythe trophies... probably still no. unless he won more than 3.
6. He's a big part.
7. Complimentary player, 2nd liner on a decent number of teams. First liner only if it's a great fit. Pretty good defensively. Good player, fan favorite. Not a hall of famer by any reasonable standard. Not worth jersey retirement. Ways from even ring of honour.

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08-19-2012, 01:36 AM
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vadim sharifijanov
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when we talk about burrows being the heart of the team, i think people are misinterpreting the spirit of al swear engine's question.

there may be players on the team that are more responsible than burrows when it comes to the team's success. but that doesn't make them the heart.

the sedins-- probably the head. henrik is the leader, and the sedins set the tone for how the team plays. if anyone other than AV represents the brain (i.e., cerebral motor) of the team, it's them.

kesler-- the legs? does more of the dirty work than anyone else. chop off the legs, the team doesn't run anymore.

schneids/luongo-- the arms, i guess. insofar as they are the last line of defense. metaphorically, arms (armies) are not necessarily to attack but to defend.

but in the spirit of those metaphors someone has to be the work ethic, courage, and inspiration. the intangible things that we for some reason call "heart." i think that's burrows.


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Originally Posted by DJOpus View Post
This is rediculous, I'm not sure that I would have retired Naslund's number but he won a major award as a Canuck (Lester B. Pearson) and was an end of year all-star three times...guys like Linden and Smyl couldn't dream of being in that class of hockey player.

I think as far as jersey number retirements go, it should be 1) Bure and possibly 2) Naslund...nobody else should have their number retired. Ring of honor is where guys like Linden and Smyl should be.
that's some self-hating canucks fan talk right there. naslund? ugh, he was a paper tiger we would do well to forget, not remember (great on paper, poor results). to extend my analogy from above, if we retire burrows' number for the same reasons washington retired dale hunter's, then naslund is mike gartner. great numbers, but he never did anything for no one in this town (not literally; his charity work was very respectable and my hat is off to him for that). hockey games are won with heart, not calculators.

to say that naslund should have his number in the rafters and not linden and smyl (who both captained teams to stanley cup finals) because naslund won some awards is basically throwing your hands up and saying, "our memories of canucks hockey don't matter. our experiences watching this team don't matter. all that matters is what some east coast sportswriters and other people from other fanbases tell us should matter."


Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Swearengen View Post
I can't argue for Steamer since I was born in '82, but I'm with Shareef on the sentimentality argument. Linden was a genuine class act, the franchise's greatest leader, and spent 17 years with the club. Just because he wasn't an elite scorer doesn't mean he doesn't mean as much or more to the Canucks.
thanks for the nod. to return the favour, i'll add to your point that a jersey hanging in the rafters is basically a monument. the point is to remind us to remember things that are worth remembering.

i was one year old in '82 so i don't actually remember it, but i should and do remember that it happened because i've been hearing stories about steamer since i was a kid.

i remember watching bure's first game on UTV's sports page (before it was called "global"). i remember bure's 50th goal in hamilton. i remember that crazy game 5 where we were up by three, then they evened the score, then we scored three more. i'll never forget that hat trick. i'll also never forget what ronning said about linden getting shots into his ribs between periods during the finals. what linden did was in the same class as what pavel did. when i look up into the stands (that is, if i could afford tickets), that's what i want to remember.

i also remember game 7 OT against chicago. i remember burrows and kesler absolutely dominating opposition power plays during the finals run. i remember countless magical sedin plays that burrows was a part of. i remember that OT goal against thomas, before everything went to hell. those are memories worthy of a monument.

furthermore, those are our most cherished memories, not second class ones. i wouldn't relegate them to the ring of honour.

what were naslund's greatest moments? some four goal game against columbus in february? that time he almost prevented calgary from beating us in the playoffs? second class memories.

what i don't want to remember is game 82 against LA, and games 5-7 against minnesota. the fact that naslund finished second in points and won a dubious pearson award (the voting took place before he choked against LA and gifted the scoring title to forsberg) doesn't make those bad memories and less bad.

EDIT: but maybe i'm just a sentimental old fool.


Last edited by vadim sharifijanov: 08-19-2012 at 01:46 AM.
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08-19-2012, 03:48 PM
  #25
craigcaulks*
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Originally Posted by DJOpus View Post
This is rediculous, I'm not sure that I would have retired Naslund's number but he won a major award as a Canuck (Lester B. Pearson) and was an end of year all-star three times...guys like Linden and Smyl couldn't dream of being in that class of hockey player.

I think as far as jersey number retirements go, it should be 1) Bure and possibly 2) Naslund...nobody else should have their number retired. Ring of honor is where guys like Linden and Smyl should be.
I think it's fun to retroactively discuss jersey retirement. There was no issue with Smyl's jersey getting retired, he was a Canuck that deserved it. (I assume many people here really don't remember him or never saw him play) There was never any issue with Linden's jersey either.

Naslund on the other hand was rather divisive. Pretty easy for me to decide who is deserving; what do the fans think at the time? For whatever reason, this city seems to appreciate hard working players. Maybe it's because we are a bunch of urban sissies?

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