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Vancouver Ranked 3rd in Livable Cities Study

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08-21-2012, 11:20 AM
  #176
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Originally Posted by Lonny Bohonos View Post
You gotta laugh when Vancouver tops the list since at least the early 2000's when you take a look at income levels since then and the housing prices since then.

All funded through cheap $$$.

Wonder where it will post once the crash starts gaining momentum. Seems like the survey doesnt factor these things in.
While I think a downturn is coming, I don't think we'll see a huge crash. The prices are so high because many homes are being bought by wealthy investors from China, creating huge demand. Until Canada tightens their immigration laws, or China starts feeling the recession; I don't think we'll see a sudden crash as seen in Hong Kong in the mid 90's.

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08-21-2012, 11:48 AM
  #177
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Originally Posted by fenrir604 View Post
While I think a downturn is coming, I don't think we'll see a huge crash. The prices are so high because many homes are being bought by wealthy investors from China, creating huge demand. Until Canada tightens their immigration laws, or China starts feeling the recession; I don't think we'll see a sudden crash as seen in Hong Kong in the mid 90's.
This is a myth. Foreign purchases are only about 3.5% of purchases.

If im not mistaken the CDN govnt has recently introduced foreign investment restrictions.

The prices have been driven up by domestic "demand" and speculation made possible namely due to low interest rates which are still at their "emergency levels".

There is a bubble same as there have been bubbles in other sectors as well as other housing market.

You may believe that it will not burst. Maybe youre right.

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08-21-2012, 12:49 PM
  #178
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Winnipeg is getting pretty underrated imo

It doesn't has vancouver's transit system but housing prices, while on the rise, are far more affordable than Vancouver. For the same price my familys sold our POS condo in Burquitlam they bought a spacious, newer house that is by winnie's technopole and has all amnesties nearby. And while the winter is obviously colder it doesn't rain anywhere as much and there are great lake beaches nearby during summer. Oh, and people with tech/engineering degrees can actually find jobs unlike in Vancouver.
I think Vancouver's 9 months of rain is friendlier than Winnipeg's 5 months of winter + annual flood risk.

On a side note, a week in Seattle and Vancouver sealed the deal in convincing my now fiance that life suits us much better in the PNW compared to NoDak. Vancouver (more specifically, Gastown) was the perfect spot to propose. I understand peoples' struggles with affordability, but from a visitor's standpoint, Vancouver's always treated me very well.

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08-21-2012, 12:53 PM
  #179
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My sister makes the same in Langley as my dad who works in oil and gas in Calgary..depends on your line of work sorta say. Your right though, Calgary is ugly as hell with urban sprawling and its conservative culture which pisses me off. Everyone is right and whoever doubts them are wrong attitude.
Story of my life. Well said, brother.

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08-21-2012, 12:59 PM
  #180
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I really don't understand why people dismiss buses so easily.

Why the hell would you build a skytrain to UBC when you have double buses flying down broadway every 4 mins?

Getting a bus to a skytrain is quite easy, every major area in Vancouver has one that goes every 15-20 minutes.

----

Vancouver's public transportation is quite good.
The 99 B-line is a problem during rush hours. Translink has already said there's no way they can add more capacity as it's saturated. It's common for 99 B-line buses to not stop until UBC cause they're full. The 99 Bline boards on average on a weekday that the Canada line boards.

Broadway is the busiest street in Vancouver on average and UBC is the largest employer in the Vancouver metro area. It's madness to think that it isn't being served by a metro line because the metrics show that it's a perfect candidate for it.

To be honest, I think the current Skytrain layout might not have enough capacity for Broadway. The evergreen lines I hope have extended platforms and they work on extending the platforms on the entire line for 8 car trains.

The faregates being put in now should solidify revenues hopefully to pay for all this.

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08-21-2012, 01:05 PM
  #181
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Originally Posted by Lonny Bohonos View Post
Wonder where it will post once the crash starts gaining momentum. Seems like the survey doesnt factor these things in.
A survey that should take into account what might happen in the future to rank current livability? If my house takes a short term fall in value, it won't affect my quality of life. Uh oh, I think an acorn just landed on my head.

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08-21-2012, 01:06 PM
  #182
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Originally Posted by vadim sharifijanov View Post
my problem with how vancouver is planned, though, is that there's no good way to get to and from work if you live in the suburbs and work downtown. the 99 is a nightmare and for a lot of people it's the only option. traffic from burnaby to UBC (especially along 49th) also a shtstorm. the point is, the city wasn't planned for the amount of traffic it currently has, especially since real estate prices are pushing the downtown working population farther and farther out of the city. and even for rich people-- if you live on the north shore and work downtown? FYL.
Taking Los Angeles, a city that rebuilt itself on freeways, still has enormous traffic problems. If Vancouver had freeways, we'd still have congestion. Ultimately, building more roads, more freeways and driving more cars is a losing proposition.

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08-21-2012, 01:08 PM
  #183
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The faregates being put in now should solidify revenues hopefully to pay for all this.
The faregates are simply a mechanism to allow for the privatization of transit.

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08-21-2012, 01:09 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by TimmyJayhawk View Post
I think Vancouver's 9 months of rain is friendlier than Winnipeg's 5 months of winter + annual flood risk.

On a side note, a week in Seattle and Vancouver sealed the deal in convincing my now fiance that life suits us much better in the PNW compared to NoDak. Vancouver (more specifically, Gastown) was the perfect spot to propose. I understand peoples' struggles with affordability, but from a visitor's standpoint, Vancouver's always treated me very well.
Technically, Vancouver is the Pacific SW.

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08-21-2012, 01:21 PM
  #185
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Originally Posted by vadim sharifijanov View Post
another problem of mine, but keep in mind i haven't lived in vancouver since 1999 so things may have changed, is that the buses never run on time (other than the b-line and the 41). i routinely would be waiting for a bus downtown (didn't matter where i was going-- UBC, north shore, richmond) and the wait would be 40 minutes to an hour. but two of the same friggin' bus would come at the same time. why was one bus always so late that it would come at the exact same time as the next one?
This isn't the buses fault but traffic on the street. Outside of the main arterial roads, lanes are restricted to one or two each way. A parked car, or whatever can slow down traffic and kill bus times.

This is why LRT and street grade transit in Vancouver will never work. May as well just have a dedicated lane for buses and install ploughs on them to move out whatever's in the way.

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08-21-2012, 01:22 PM
  #186
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The faregates are simply a mechanism to allow for the privatization of transit.
What ??

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08-21-2012, 01:33 PM
  #187
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Originally Posted by sticknrink View Post
Taking Los Angeles, a city that rebuilt itself on freeways, still has enormous traffic problems. If Vancouver had freeways, we'd still have congestion. Ultimately, building more roads, more freeways and driving more cars is a losing proposition.
Ultimately in regards to roads I abide by the theory "If you build it, they will come". You build more roads, you'll get more traffic. A main factor in why I was against the twinning for the Portsman (though I do see the economic opportunity as a very good one).

Quote:
Originally Posted by craigcaulks View Post
The faregates are simply a mechanism to allow for the privatization of transit.
Bro, the Canada Line is a PPP.

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08-21-2012, 01:35 PM
  #188
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Originally Posted by craigcaulks View Post
A survey that should take into account what might happen in the future to rank current livability? If my house takes a short term fall in value, it won't affect my quality of life. Uh oh, I think an acorn just landed on my head.
It might take into consideration the record amount of personal debt in particular mortgages that said population is using to "afford" that livibility.

Sure short term might be no sweat. What about long term?

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08-21-2012, 03:12 PM
  #189
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Originally Posted by Lonny Bohonos View Post
This is a myth. Foreign purchases are only about 3.5% of purchases.

If im not mistaken the CDN govnt has recently introduced foreign investment restrictions.

The prices have been driven up by domestic "demand" and speculation made possible namely due to low interest rates which are still at their "emergency levels".

There is a bubble same as there have been bubbles in other sectors as well as other housing market.

You may believe that it will not burst. Maybe youre right.
That's interesting, 3.5% seems very low. But I guess you could be right.

It's just that; even though I'm not an economist, I work in the housing/commerical design sector and I am exposed to lots of clients and realtors. Maybe I'm just an isolated case but I've noticed that in Richmond, Vancouver's West End and Metro Vancouver as a whole has seen huge increases in foreign purchases within the last decade or so.

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08-21-2012, 03:34 PM
  #190
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Originally Posted by sticknrink View Post
What ??
It is the first step in allowing the government out of transit. In order to sell pieces like the train, buses, etc, there will have to be a way to account for usage. The same company won't necessarily by everything, so the money needs to be alloted fairly.

You get on the train in NW, then get on a bus at Main. You'll swipe your ticket to get on the train then on the bus and that will allow the proper payment to go to each company. It's not a new concept.

Certainly you don't think we just spent $170M to prevent a few million in fair jumpers, many of whom just won't bother riding at all.

Then again, we did just blow $500M+ on a roof.

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08-21-2012, 03:41 PM
  #191
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Originally Posted by Lonny Bohonos View Post
It might take into consideration the record amount of personal debt in particular mortgages that said population is using to "afford" that livibility.

Sure short term might be no sweat. What about long term?
You mean what if the whole thing falls apart forever? Well, I guess the renters who have been calling for the apocalypse for a decade can regale in their victory. Still not worried, sorry.

The panic factor will always exist for some, they need it to make it through the day.

Perhaps I should sell now and camp out in Stanley Park for a few years. Maybe if I wait long enough I can start living my life rather than holding my breath for something to happen.

=

The next study should take into account really long term, like 100 years. All cities would tie as we'll all be dead by then.

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08-21-2012, 03:47 PM
  #192
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Originally Posted by craigcaulks View Post
It is the first step in allowing the government out of transit. In order to sell pieces like the train, buses, etc, there will have to be a way to account for usage. The same company won't necessarily by everything, so the money needs to be alloted fairly.

You get on the train in NW, then get on a bus at Main. You'll swipe your ticket to get on the train then on the bus and that will allow the proper payment to go to each company. It's not a new concept.

Certainly you don't think we just spent $170M to prevent a few million in fair jumpers, many of whom just won't bother riding at all.

Then again, we did just blow $500M+ on a roof.
That would be awesome!

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08-21-2012, 03:55 PM
  #193
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Vancouver is indeed a beautiful city in terms of scenery, but I can't stand living there. I had a great job and left to go to a rural Alberta oil town, which pays me more. Some of my friends couldn't fathom why I moved from White Rock to where I'm at now. I personally couldn't stand it in Vancouver. Multiculturalism is something I hear thrown around lots and how great it is, but in reality it doesn't work all that well for me. I'm not going to expand on that, but somethings really irritate me.

I bought a nice condo in White Rock and I paid a lot of money for it. Money, which would have bought me lot's more somewhere in Calgary or Edmonton. My fiance is not going to move to a small oil town and become a self entitled house wife. She refuses to let me be the sole income earner and wants a career herself.

I know lots of people in my line of work, that actually work in Alberta, but live in Vancouver or Kelowna. They're in a fly-in, fly-out gig. This is where I'll be heading in the near future. Although I refuse to live in Vancouver ever again. Kelowna would work well for me.

I don't mean to insult anyone, and while Vancouver has beautiful scenery for a city, everything else about it just doesn't work for my kind of lifestyle.

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08-21-2012, 04:32 PM
  #194
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Multiculturalism is something I hear thrown around lots and how great it is, but in reality it doesn't work all that well for me. I'm not going to expand on that, but somethings really irritate me.
.

FWIW, White Rock isn't Vancouver. But more importantly, multiculturalism in White Rock? Are you talking about where people's cars come from? Is there a whiter enclave in the province?

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08-21-2012, 04:34 PM
  #195
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Originally Posted by sticknrink View Post
The 99 B-line is a problem during rush hours. Translink has already said there's no way they can add more capacity as it's saturated. It's common for 99 B-line buses to not stop until UBC cause they're full. The 99 Bline boards on average on a weekday that the Canada line boards.

Broadway is the busiest street in Vancouver on average and UBC is the largest employer in the Vancouver metro area. It's madness to think that it isn't being served by a metro line because the metrics show that it's a perfect candidate for it.

To be honest, I think the current Skytrain layout might not have enough capacity for Broadway. The evergreen lines I hope have extended platforms and they work on extending the platforms on the entire line for 8 car trains.

The faregates being put in now should solidify revenues hopefully to pay for all this.
When they built the most recent subway addition in Toronto, they built in almost but not quite far enough to get to the York University campus north of the city. The problem was that everyone who lives in York is rich, and a lot of them don't take transit. Maybe Vancouver is (wrongly) worried about repeating this mistake, since the York line in TO is showing crappy numbers and, at least in the short term, looks like a bad decision.

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08-21-2012, 04:35 PM
  #196
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FWIW, White Rock isn't Vancouver. But more importantly, multiculturalism in White Rock? Are you talking about where people's cars come from? Is there a whiter enclave in the province?
He probably went to Semiahmoo Secondary or something.

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08-21-2012, 05:20 PM
  #197
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You mean what if the whole thing falls apart forever? Well, I guess the renters who have been calling for the apocalypse for a decade can regale in their victory. Still not worried, sorry.

The panic factor will always exist for some, they need it to make it through the day.

Perhaps I should sell now and camp out in Stanley Park for a few years. Maybe if I wait long enough I can start living my life rather than holding my breath for something to happen.

=

The next study should take into account really long term, like 100 years. All cities would tie as we'll all be dead by then.
It doesn't need to "fall apart forever". A simple housing crash like we saw in parts of the USA is a perfectly reasonable scenario given Vancouver's current fundamentals.

Under normal circumstances the cost of renting and buying are fairly similar month to month. If they weren't similar most of the time, rental properties eventually wouldn't and couldn't exist. In Vancouver, ownership costs are about twice that of renting and that's not sustainable. There will likely always be a modest ownership premium in a place like Vancouver, but 2X the cost is insane.

That's not to say people shouldn't buy; if you are willing to pay the premium of ownership and think you'll be in a house long term enough to ride out the fluctuations it makes sense.

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08-21-2012, 05:44 PM
  #198
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Originally Posted by craigcaulks View Post
FWIW, White Rock isn't Vancouver. But more importantly, multiculturalism in White Rock? Are you talking about where people's cars come from? Is there a whiter enclave in the province?
sounds like there was a reason beyond cost that he chose to buy in white rock and not, say, yaletown.

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08-21-2012, 08:27 PM
  #199
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It doesn't need to "fall apart forever". A simple housing crash like we saw in parts of the USA is a perfectly reasonable scenario given Vancouver's current fundamentals.

Under normal circumstances the cost of renting and buying are fairly similar month to month. If they weren't similar most of the time, rental properties eventually wouldn't and couldn't exist. In Vancouver, ownership costs are about twice that of renting and that's not sustainable. There will likely always be a modest ownership premium in a place like Vancouver, but 2X the cost is insane.

That's not to say people shouldn't buy; if you are willing to pay the premium of ownership and think you'll be in a house long term enough to ride out the fluctuations it makes sense.
The housing crash that happened in the States will never happen in Canada. In any part of Canada. Canadian banks don't just give every random joe mortgages to purchase a home. You have to have good credit, show that you pay your bills every month, have 20% down. And that housing crash is still going on. I could easily purchase a house down in Arizona for what I make right now.

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08-21-2012, 08:40 PM
  #200
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Originally Posted by craigcaulks View Post
You mean what if the whole thing falls apart forever? Well, I guess the renters who have been calling for the apocalypse for a decade can regale in their victory. Still not worried, sorry.

The panic factor will always exist for some, they need it to make it through the day.

Perhaps I should sell now and camp out in Stanley Park for a few years. Maybe if I wait long enough I can start living my life rather than holding my breath for something to happen.

=

The next study should take into account really long term, like 100 years. All cities would tie as we'll all be dead by then.
Nope not forever. As in house prices drop 30%-50% of their current value. Govnt raises interest rates. It just might be 100 years before that value is "recouped".

You say renter as if it a dirty word lol.

Personally im not a renter nor an owner in Van but its not just renters who have been talking about it. I have no stake im the game beyond my various friends and family living there as either renters or owners.

But brining up renters is interesting as if you look at the price to rent ratios they are always way out of line. Vancouvers quite cheap to rent.

You would think rents would have kept pace with prices or at least closer. Since rents are paid with income strictly (no one gets a mortgage to rent) they tend to indicate what the market "should be" unlike our current owner situation where low cost borrowing has led to record high ownership and the resulting record high prices.

So the study may be taking costs to own into it and it may be be seeing the market is "hot" and thinking it seems to be ok when. When that market is buoyed by debt.

And the panic has been there long ago in the form of "i better buy before im priced out". Maybe that helps them "get through the day".

I find it suspect when such a major factor in "liveability", the cost of housing vs incomes has changed in so drastically in the last decade+ but yet Vancouver is still ranks where it was a decade ago.


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