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Steve Begin gets proffesional tryout

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08-15-2012, 07:51 PM
  #51
Volica
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Cannot believe the hate for a forth line grinder (at best) on a tryout contract lol.

If you all dont think he's game, then there's no harm going into camp, he'll just get shown up, and retire.

Too funny. It's not like we wasted a first round pick, traded away a stud or gave a long term contract to Begin or a plug.

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08-15-2012, 10:30 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Miokid View Post
Cannot believe the hate for a forth line grinder (at best) on a tryout contract lol.

If you all dont think he's game, then there's no harm going into camp, he'll just get shown up, and retire.

Too funny. It's not like we wasted a first round pick, traded away a stud or gave a long term contract to Begin or a plug.
Don't know what the humor is in people have different opinions?
Anyway I understand the point of view but I for one believe it just created even more of a large number of players that all can do the same things. Just don't see the point in grabbing a guy that hasn't played in two years when we already have guys ready to step in and do his job. But hey its just one more guy at training camp, if he makes it great makes no difference to me

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08-15-2012, 11:43 PM
  #53
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This kind of reminds me of the PL3 move. Some people were for it, others weren't. The hunt for energy guys will always be a struggle. Some teams just stop putting guys like this on the ice. I'm not against energy plugs, but I would've rather seen Gillies, Stortini, maybe a few others like O'Donnell.

As far as try-outs for the sake of competition, I would've prefer to have seen Arnott, Sykora, Cheechoo, Knuble, Huselius, Brunette. Guys who have played significant hockey last year (except Cheechoo) and could help us determine how our prospects stack up against real NHLers.

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08-16-2012, 12:05 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by tyflames View Post
Don't know what the humor is in people have different opinions?
Anyway I understand the point of view but I for one believe it just created even more of a large number of players that all can do the same things. Just don't see the point in grabbing a guy that hasn't played in two years when we already have guys ready to step in and do his job. But hey its just one more guy at training camp, if he makes it great makes no difference to me
Different opinions are fine, the way you defend them is what makes it humorous. It's crazy there's two pages littered with certain people getting furious about a tryout contract for Bégin. The reason everyone keeps bringing up is the log jam on the forth line.

So we have a ton of kids and some vets playing for 3 spots. There is worse things that could happen...
Everyone will come in with the same chance to get those spots on that roster. There's no two ways about it. If old, beaten hipped, 2 game for 2 years, Steve Bégin shows he has more spark, awareness, better defensive prowess and overall better two way game than the 18-22 year olds in camp, he deserves it. Means that these kids will have a larger role in Abby. And if he shows that he's rusty, he can't play, and he's a step behind... Flames and Bégin go their separate ways, no love lost.

Also, it's not a matter of a bunch of guys "doing the same thing", look it what Jersey did with their forth line this past playoff run... Forth lines matter, it's a matter of putting together the best team you can. If Bégin is better than Aliu, Nemisz, Horak in a fourth line role (Which in my honest opinion, he probably is), then he gets the spot.

Again, there are worse things that can happen than having 18-22 year olds playing larger roles on your farm team rather than playing 8-12 minutes a night in the NHL... Guys like Aliu finally had a single season where he was able to sort of put it together, what's the rush in seeing if he can string another strong start together.

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08-16-2012, 12:09 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by MarkGio View Post
This kind of reminds me of the PL3 move. Some people were for it, others weren't. The hunt for energy guys will always be a struggle. Some teams just stop putting guys like this on the ice. I'm not against energy plugs, but I would've rather seen Gillies, Stortini, maybe a few others like O'Donnell.

As far as try-outs for the sake of competition, I would've prefer to have seen Arnott, Sykora, Cheechoo, Knuble, Huselius, Brunette. Guys who have played significant hockey last year (except Cheechoo) and could help us determine how our prospects stack up against real NHLers.
I didn't understand the PL3 move; especially losing a draft pick for essentially a goon (I don't know if he can even be considered a real energy player), which the team was already full of.

Only problem with about 1/2 those names, is they don't want tryouts, they'll want real contracts coming in... for more than the minimum you can pay a plug. Hell Sykora had over 40 points last year if I remember correctly. Dunno, Log jam on the forth, could be worse things, best person out of camp gets it... and has to hold it, will be a lot of call ups/downs this year again I'm thinking.

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08-16-2012, 07:48 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by CGYPUKSUX View Post
How would Begin make a GREAT 4th line center? He hasn't played more than 2 games in the NHL for three years. He's also injury prone. Maybe Begin of 2002, but Begin of 2012, I just don't see it.
He has the dedication, and is a great utility guy. A great character guy who makes a great 4th line center.

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08-16-2012, 07:54 AM
  #57
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I don't think anyone is at home right now taking the Iginla off their jersey and replacing it with Begin

I'm a wait and see kind of person I don't just base things off of statistics as there is more to the game than that. I'm pretty sure Aliu isn't scoring 82 goals next year and Sven 50 based on the stats last years so numbers are deceiving.

I'm excited to see how everyone does at camp and take the best possible option for the team.

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08-16-2012, 10:33 AM
  #58
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I hate it when teams bring in washed up veterans who are holding on to a game that has passed them by. I don't think it has any positive effects on the team and is more of a distraction. If the Flames want to right their ship they really need to focus on the assets they do have, and develop those players who have the potential to become a contributor down the road.

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08-16-2012, 10:42 AM
  #59
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Sounds to me like a lot of people just want to find something to complain about.

Begin's not even a sure thing to make it through camp and people are already ******** all over this move like he's about to become our top line center.

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08-16-2012, 11:40 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Duck Sauce View Post
Sounds to me like a lot of people just want to find something to complain about.

Begin's not even a sure thing to make it through camp and people are already ******** all over this move like he's about to become our top line center.
Yuuup.

You people understand this is a training camp right?

EVERY PLAYER is going to be assessed, adding more doesn't change that in any way, shape or form.

The amount of hate for this move is ridiculous.

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08-16-2012, 11:48 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Duck Sauce View Post
Sounds to me like a lot of people just want to find something to complain about.
Really? Just want to find something to complain about? Like it is really a stretch to find something to complain about with any team that has missed the playoffs three years in a row?



I just think that for a team wanting to show they have a future with the players they have drafted, inviting to camp old injury prone guys, trying to catch on with a team, is completely counter to that initiative. I think the messages it sends are mixed and really supports the claims the Flames are a bottom feeder with no idea on how to improve. The fact that Begin and Hartley have mutual admiration is also concerning. I can't imagine that young players looking to crack the lineup, or those who handle them, will be very excited about this development. Given a choice between Begin or any one of Nemisz, Reinhart, or even Byron I'll take one of the three kids. Youthful enthusiasm is everything this tired stale lineup needs.

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08-16-2012, 11:58 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by CGYPUKSUX View Post
Really? Just want to find something to complain about? Like it is really a stretch to find something to complain about with any team that has missed the playoffs three years in a row?



I just think that for a team wanting to show they have a future with the players they have drafted, inviting to camp old injury prone guys, trying to catch on with a team, is completely counter to that initiative. I think the messages it sends are mixed and really supports the claims the Flames are a bottom feeder with no idea on how to improve. The fact that Begin and Hartley have mutual admiration is also concerning. I can't imagine that young players looking to crack the lineup, or those who handle them, will be very excited about this development. Given a choice between Begin or any one of Nemisz, Reinhart, or even Byron I'll take one of the three kids. Youthful enthusiasm is everything this tired stale lineup needs.
You've made your mind up without seeing him hit the ice that's pretty crazy if you ask me.

I hope they invite all kinds of people like Cheechoo, Kovalev and whatever else they can find just piss everyone off after all these BS comments.


Last edited by Ynnek: 08-16-2012 at 12:09 PM.
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08-16-2012, 12:13 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Ynnek View Post
You've made your mind up without seeing him hit the ice that's pretty crazy if you ask me.
What's to see? I watched Begin's whole career and watched him start as a mediocre 4th line agitator, grow into a decent 3rd line defensively aware agitator, and then diminish into a poor 4th line agitator who couldn't stay healthy nor be effective in his role. There's a reason he was in the minors to finish out his injury filled career and was forced into taking a year off to surgically repair and then try to get his body to recuperate. I don't like to see guys leverage relationships to get a change they clearly don't deserve.

Have the Flames become the team that has-beens contact to try and revive their careers, and the Flames are so desperate that they take them up? I'd be much more supportive if the team was inviting guys to camp that could actually become players in a couple of years, if given a chance, rather than guys who are milking another couple contracts out of the NHL before hanging them up.

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08-16-2012, 12:25 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by CGYPUKSUX View Post
What's to see? I watched Begin's whole career and watched him start as a mediocre 4th line agitator, grow into a decent 3rd line defensively aware agitator, and then diminish into a poor 4th line agitator who couldn't stay healthy nor be effective in his role. There's a reason he was in the minors to finish out his injury filled career and was forced into taking a year off to surgically repair and then try to get his body to recuperate. I don't like to see guys leverage relationships to get a change they clearly don't deserve.

Have the Flames become the team that has-beens contact to try and revive their careers, and the Flames are so desperate that they take them up? I'd be much more supportive if the team was inviting guys to camp that could actually become players in a couple of years, if given a chance, rather than guys who are milking another couple contracts out of the NHL before hanging them up.
So which of our players lost out their spot at camp to Begin?

Oh right, none of them.

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08-16-2012, 12:48 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by CGYPUKSUX View Post
What's to see? I watched Begin's whole career and watched him start as a mediocre 4th line agitator, grow into a decent 3rd line defensively aware agitator, and then diminish into a poor 4th line agitator who couldn't stay healthy nor be effective in his role. There's a reason he was in the minors to finish out his injury filled career and was forced into taking a year off to surgically repair and then try to get his body to recuperate. I don't like to see guys leverage relationships to get a change they clearly don't deserve.

Have the Flames become the team that has-beens contact to try and revive their careers, and the Flames are so desperate that they take them up? I'd be much more supportive if the team was inviting guys to camp that could actually become players in a couple of years, if given a chance, rather than guys who are milking another couple contracts out of the NHL before hanging them up.
You probably hated Brendan Morrison getting a shot too hey? He was a HUGE addition his first year with us. But if you had your way, we woulnd't have even given the guy a chance.

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08-16-2012, 12:52 PM
  #66
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Already our best faceoff man

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08-16-2012, 12:54 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by InfinityIggy View Post
So which of our players lost out their spot at camp to Begin?

Oh right, none of them.
We'll see. I wonder if there will be any comments about guys being dispatched to the minors or to their junior teams early while Begin hangs around until the end of camp, a la Fleury. Think it is more beneficial to a young player to hang around until the end of camp, being one of the final cuts, or having a washed up player on a tryout end up in that same situation?

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08-16-2012, 12:59 PM
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I heard Valerie Bure is thinking of making a comeback.

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08-16-2012, 01:02 PM
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I heard Valerie Bure is thinking of making a comeback.
He can attend camp if he brings Pavel with him

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08-16-2012, 01:02 PM
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You probably hated Brendan Morrison getting a shot too hey? He was a HUGE addition his first year with us. But if you had your way, we woulnd't have even given the guy a chance.
Completely different situation. Morrison had played the previous year. Morrison also did not attend our training camp, impacting any of our prospects or their development opportunities. He attended the Canucks training camp and he turned down an offer from them before signing with the Flames. Based on what was available in the Flames system at the time it was arguably the right move. Times change and we have several better options.

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08-16-2012, 01:09 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by CGYPUKSUX View Post
We'll see. I wonder if there will be any comments about guys being dispatched to the minors or to their junior teams early while Begin hangs around until the end of camp, a la Fleury. Think it is more beneficial to a young player to hang around until the end of camp, being one of the final cuts, or having a washed up player on a tryout end up in that same situation?
Do you think they keep them around just because? By your logic, early cuts should never be made. But they are made, and for a reason - there are usually players who, in comparison with the others, are clearly out of the group's relative depth level and it would be unfathomable to see why they should let any player stick around and have a false hope of making the team.

If the guy wants to stick around after they are cut, they can. On/off ice training and practice after hours, as long as they don't disrupt the training camp program. Talk with the staff. It's a "You don't have to go home, but you can't be stay here" type of thing. That's their work ethic.

If Begin makes his way as a late cut or onto the roster, the onus is on the kids. If they can't outplay a veteran who has only amassed 100 career NHL points, played seasons ago, and is fresh off injury rehabilitation, they do not deserve a second look for the time being.

Right now, the only thing Begin has over these kids is 400 games of NHL experience. Feaster and Hartley are both smart, experienced men who know what they have in their hands. They should evaluate Begin as just another fresh face in camp like the kids.

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08-16-2012, 01:10 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by CGYPUKSUX View Post
We'll see. I wonder if there will be any comments about guys being dispatched to the minors or to their junior teams early while Begin hangs around until the end of camp, a la Fleury. Think it is more beneficial to a young player to hang around until the end of camp, being one of the final cuts, or having a washed up player on a tryout end up in that same situation?
There is no set number of players that have to be cut at a given time, the whole group could be kept up until the final day of camp if the Flames wanted.

The players that were sent back had nothing to do with Fluery and everything to do with them not being ready for the NHL.

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08-16-2012, 01:23 PM
  #73
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If they can't beat out Begin I don't want them on the team plain and simple. Nothing is being handed to anyone this is no longer a Sutter team.

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08-16-2012, 01:30 PM
  #74
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If they can't beat out Begin I don't want them on the team plain and simple. Nothing is being handed to anyone this is no longer a Sutter team.
To be fair, Begin can make life rough for many players heh.

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08-16-2012, 01:30 PM
  #75
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They should evaluate Begin as just another fresh face in camp like the kids.
They should, but will they. As mentioned, Begin and Hartley reportedly have a mutual admiration society which could come into play. I'm pretty certain that is why the try out offer was extended in the first place. We'll see how it plays out, but I'm not in favor of it.

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