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Which trade with Boston would you undo?

View Poll Results: Which trade would you undo?
Rask for Raycroft 308 74.58%
1st + 1st + 2nd for Kessel 94 22.76%
Neither 11 2.66%
Voters: 413. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
08-14-2012, 10:45 PM
  #76
Tyler Biggs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tp71 View Post
Except our pick was #13, which was Eller. There is no saying that we would have flipped the pick and ended up with Couture.
No guarantee we would have drafted Eller with that pick either if we had kept it.

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08-14-2012, 10:48 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by MintoMadDogsKiller18 View Post
No guarantee we would have drafted Eller with that pick either if we had kept it.
No there isn't. But why even speculate Couture when he didn't even fall to 13? If anything, if you're going to speculate draft unknowns, you'd have to say we pick Eller or someone below that.

As it stands we only know what 13 is now. And that is Lars Eller. So it makes more sense when pretending that Toskala didn't happen, that we landed Eller.

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08-14-2012, 10:48 PM
  #78
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Man o man that is a tough choice.

With rask we have a shot solid shot at having a very good #1 G.

With Seg, Hammer very good shots at #1c and #1 d and Knight a 3rd line player. At the cost of a #1 winger.

So a #1 w and G or a #1c and D.

Gonna have to say the Kessel trade.

Simply for the fact that to trade for a #1c or a #1d is hella $ .

A guy like Semin could fill Kessels shoes up to a point.

Tenders? meh who knows with those crazy fcks.

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08-14-2012, 10:49 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by tp71 View Post
No there isn't. But why even speculate Couture when he didn't even fall to 13? If anything, if you're going to speculate draft unknowns, you'd have to say we pick Eller or someone below that.

As it stands we only know what 13 is now. And that is Lars Eller. So it makes more sense when pretending that Toskala didn't happen, that we landed Eller.
I never said anything about Couture...

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08-14-2012, 10:54 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by MintoMadDogsKiller18 View Post
I never said anything about Couture...
Well that was the point of my post was disputing the fantasy lineup that included Couture as the top line centre.

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08-14-2012, 11:05 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by tp71 View Post
Well that was the point of my post was disputing the fantasy lineup that included Couture as the top line centre.
Oh alrighty, sorry I thought you were saying I was the one mentioning we would have landed Couture instead of Eller if we had kept that pick.

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08-14-2012, 11:11 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Eb View Post
True. Now you can make a case. But I mean, Raycroft posted 37 wins with our defence so...
Now I can make a case? Please. Let's not pretend that the vast majority of goaltenders wouldn't look better playing on another team then the Leafs.

Here's how the Leafs rank in terms of goals scored against us since the lockout in the EC:
11-12: 2nd last
10-11: 3rd last
09-10: last
08-09: last (and by far last in the NHL..)
07-08: 3rd last
06-07: 4th last
05-06: 5th last

Notice the pattern? Every single season the Leafs have been in the bottom third with most seasons in the bottom fifth. Let's face it, the Leafs are just not a good defensive team. And guess what, they basically never have been. Is it really that much of a stretch that Rask wouldn't look as good in Toronto as he does in Boston? No. I don't have a crystal ball and even I know that.

And no, I'm not saying Rask is bad because he is obviously a good goalie and likely a franchise goalie. But being on Boston probably makes him look like a lidstrom when he is a really a Salming.

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08-14-2012, 11:14 PM
  #83
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Has to be Rask for Raycroft. No explanation necessary, its obvious.

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08-14-2012, 11:46 PM
  #84
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Rask no question. At least we got a quality player in Kessel with the other deal.

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08-15-2012, 06:56 AM
  #85
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I think we'll finally see this coming season if the Rask deal was a mistake. That is, if there is indeed a season!

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08-15-2012, 08:07 AM
  #86
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Both? Rask should be the easy choice but it's not really. Weren't there tons of reports out there saying that he forced the Leafs hand to trade him. I remember reading that somewhere.

And sure Kessel is a pretty good player and all, but we could've had him for much cheaper than we paid.

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08-15-2012, 08:12 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Sypher04 View Post

And sure Kessel is a pretty good player and all, but we could've had him for much cheaper than we paid.
Why, is Chiarelli stupid or something?

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08-15-2012, 08:52 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by The Eclipse View Post
Well this was pointless, ha. I banked too hard on the value of Seguin and Hamilton.
Your goal was to get more people to complain about the Kessel trade ?

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08-15-2012, 08:58 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Gobias Industries View Post
There are a million classic lines in that thread...someone saying how Marc Staal shouldn't be mentioned in the same sentence and Erik Johnson or Jack Johnson, and how he brings absolutely nothing to the table..

Whoops...
Comments like that are exactly why I shake my head when a poster takes such a hard stance on predicted outcomes of players development. It's just too difficult to predict if and when a player is going to break out and I'm sure if one were to really dig up some old posts there'd be a lot of silly looking predictions from a few years ago.

That being said, I picked Rask for Raycroft without even looking at the other choices. That was just a horrible horrible trade that has had a major trickling down effect since it was made. Gone was a promising goalie for a complete joke. Then the trade to fix that mistake was just as bad resulting in a lost 1st rounder and yet another terrible goalie acquired. Leafs are still digging themselves out of that mess as the goalie situation has not yet been solved.

Anyone who considers the Kessel trade even close to the Rask trade is either too young or doesn't have their head on straight.

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08-15-2012, 10:10 AM
  #90
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Well it wasn't exactly a trade but I wish there was an 'undo' button for turning down that Orr kid back in '65.

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08-15-2012, 10:15 AM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sypher04 View Post
Both? Rask should be the easy choice but it's not really. Weren't there tons of reports out there saying that he forced the Leafs hand to trade him. I remember reading that somewhere.

And sure Kessel is a pretty good player and all, but we could've had him for much cheaper than we paid.
Rask asked to be traded? They could have had Kessel cheaper?

Bit of a vivid imagination.

Looks like the poll didn't go the way the OP had planned.

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08-15-2012, 10:20 AM
  #92
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This is actually really difficult, especially because the chain of events following each would be drastically different in each case.

That said, I will say Rask for Raycroft only because I believe that 1) we wouldn't have done the Toskala deal and 2) if we had still done the Kessel deal, the picks (likely) wouldn't have been as high. They still could have been though.

Downfalls of choosing the Rask deal - Rask would have made the team look better than Toskala, and the Phaneuf and Blake deals may have never happened. Lastly, we could theorize that we would have been a better team last year, and we would have kept Beauchemin instead of trading him because we would have been in a better position to make the playoffs.

Considering every angle is difficult, which is why this question is not easy.

It is really hard to choose the Kessel deal when we are desperately seeking a #1 centre and a top pairing d-man, which we could have. Yes, we at least got a top player back (and trust me, I love Kessel), but the value given up is higher than the Rask deal. Also, we could have offer-sheeted Kessel and not given up the Hamilton pick. That stings, too.

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08-15-2012, 10:41 AM
  #93
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I'd do Kessel again in a heartbeat. Rask/Raycroft was a disaster. so...yeah.

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08-15-2012, 10:45 AM
  #94
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Originally Posted by leugangen View Post
Also, we could have offer-sheeted Kessel and not given up the Hamilton pick. That stings, too.
No, we couldn`t have.

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08-15-2012, 10:46 AM
  #95
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I wish we could undo BOTH of them as both were ill advised and regrettable today based on the loss of players/picks involved.

The Rask for Raycroft deal should never of happened and if it did it should have been Justin Pogge for Raycroft instead.

The Kessel deal for the actual picks surrender should never of happened, and if it did it should have been Kaberle + 1st (7th overall = Kadri pick) transaction that Boston was willing to accept (as was reported) that should have completed.

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08-15-2012, 10:47 AM
  #96
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What about the Kaberle trade?
In all seriousness, it's gotta be the Rask-Raycroft trade hands down, even if Rask flops this year.

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08-15-2012, 10:47 AM
  #97
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Originally Posted by leugangen View Post
Also, we could have offer-sheeted Kessel and not given up the Hamilton pick. That stings, too.
Sure they could have but then Kessel would now be a Bruin.

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08-15-2012, 10:52 AM
  #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whydidijoin View Post
No, we couldn`t have.
The compensation for Kessel was 1st, 2nd and 3rd round pick as per offer sheet rules based on player salary.

That means the 1st round pick 9th overall in 2011 would never have happened, as it wouldn't have been included.

If Boston would have matched the offer sheet than also Leafs would not have surrendered that pick nor the 2010 1st rounder either.

So there is no possible outcome of an offer sheet attempt for Kessel that would have cost the Leafs that pick.

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08-15-2012, 10:54 AM
  #99
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Originally Posted by Whydidijoin View Post
No, we couldn`t have.
Yes, because a 5.4M offerssheet was a 1st, 2nd 3rd return. Burrke just felt like adding a lot more. Imagine if we had done Kaberle + to get Kessel? We would have been saying he has won every deal

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08-15-2012, 10:57 AM
  #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mooseOAK View Post
Why, is Chiarelli stupid or something?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
The Kessel deal for the actual picks surrender should never of happened, and if it did it should have been Kaberle + 1st (7th overall = Kadri pick) transaction that Boston was willing to accept (as was reported) that should have completed.
Mess just commented on exactly what I was referring to.

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