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Grabovski+ for your 1C

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Old
08-15-2012, 12:46 AM
  #26
LeafsLegends
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Originally Posted by TheUnseenHand View Post
I assumed you meant to keep those two guys. I dunno, I guess I could see something worked around Grabovski, Kadri and a 1st depending on who the guy going the other way is and what his situation is. I would have to imagine if a number one type center was available, though, other teams could easily outbid that kind of offer.
Sure the ones that could though would be rebuilding like us and wouldnt and the ones that could trade great established players wouldnt because there trying to make a push for the cup which means they can trade low 1sts and mid prospects. It's a question of who will pay the most not who could.

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08-15-2012, 12:46 AM
  #27
allan5oh
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Why is Grabovski not considered a #1C? Take a look at NHL.com, he's 31st in points for centers last year. Bozak is right behind him. Do Toronto fans think if they had an elite #1C that Kessel would produce more?

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08-15-2012, 12:48 AM
  #28
LeafsLegends
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Originally Posted by TurdFerguson View Post
For a team to be willing to trade a legit 1C, they need:

Two legit 1C's
OR
A significant problem with their 1C
OR
An offer they can't refuse

Since i haven't heard of really significant problems with any 1C's, you have to look at teams with multiple 1C's.

Any team that has multiple 1C's is in cup contention with the sole exception being Colorado.

TML-COL threads have not gone well (Colorado doesn't have a depth problem, they need high end skill).

Any cup contending team wants quality roster players.

In the end, the Leafs really need to offer Kessel or at least Phaneuf if they want a top center.
or the leafs could
1. Draft their own
2. Aquire Getzlaf or the like at the deadline
3. Sign a high end 1c in 2013 free agency

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08-15-2012, 12:50 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by allan5oh View Post
Why is Grabovski not considered a #1C? Take a look at NHL.com, he's 31st in points for centers last year. Bozak is right behind him. Do Toronto fans think if they had an elite #1C that Kessel would produce more?
First off let me say that in no way do I want to trade grabo. Now with that out of the way I think the idea is that Kadri or colborne are more likely to top out as 2nd line centers so if we could package grabo and whatever else a team would like for a top 15 center then that trade has to be considered if not see above post.

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08-15-2012, 12:53 AM
  #30
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Is it just me or do Leafs fan underrate Grabovski? He was 29th in P/60 (even stength) among centers last season, and has great possession numbers against top lines. IMO he's a first line center. Why not put Grabovski with Kessel? Kessel has always been just average at possession, so he needs to play with a player like Grabovski to score as many goals as he is capable of.

They can always play Kadri/Connolly/Colborne/JVR 2nd line. Or is there something about Grabovski that I'm missing?

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08-15-2012, 12:53 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by LeafsLegends View Post
or the leafs could
1. Draft their own
2. Aquire Getzlaf or the like at the deadline
3. Sign a high end 1c in 2013 free agency
Fair enough, though drafting one didn't seem to be a priority this year when they passed on Grigs. The latter two don't really happen unless they fit my criteria of having problems with their team.

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08-15-2012, 12:54 AM
  #32
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Grabovski + Kessel + Gardiner + 1st

For

Malkin

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08-15-2012, 12:56 AM
  #33
LeafsLegends
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Originally Posted by TurdFerguson View Post
Fair enough, though drafting one didn't seem to be a priority this year when they passed on Grigs. The latter two don't really happen unless they fit my criteria of having problems with their team.
I'm pretty happy with the reilly pick and I think if were gonna pick up a potential 1c it will be in the top 5 this year when we miss the playoffs again.

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08-15-2012, 12:57 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brochenski View Post
Is it just me or do Leafs fan underrate Grabovski? He was 29th in P/60 (even stength) among centers last season, and has great possession numbers against top lines. IMO he's a first line center. Why not put Grabovski with Kessel? Kessel has always been just average at possession, so he needs to play with a player like Grabovski to score as many goals as he is capable of.

They can always play Kadri/Connolly/Colborne/JVR 2nd line. Or is there something about Grabovski that I'm missing?
Leafs fans know Grabo is a really good player but they can't help but think what Lupul/Kessel would be able to do with another elite producer in the middle. Grabovksi's game is more well rounded and thus less spectacular but I agree with you, he's as effective as a lot of teams #1's.

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08-15-2012, 12:59 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KesseltoLupul View Post
Grabovski + Kessel + Gardiner + 1st

For

Malkin
ok

water + food+shelter

for

oxygen

either way ur still screwed in the end

Cant give up those kind of assets without having to rebuild your team and you dont rebuild ground up with a mid twenties malkin who will be thirty when your able to compete again.

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08-15-2012, 01:01 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brochenski View Post
Is it just me or do Leafs fan underrate Grabovski? He was 29th in P/60 (even stength) among centers last season, and has great possession numbers against top lines. IMO he's a first line center. Why not put Grabovski with Kessel? Kessel has always been just average at possession, so he needs to play with a player like Grabovski to score as many goals as he is capable of.

They can always play Kadri/Connolly/Colborne/JVR 2nd line. Or is there something about Grabovski that I'm missing?
He is a good player and he really stands out when you watch him live, he flies out there, great skater. I just don't think he is a #1 C on a good team, and for the leafs to be a good team they need that sort of #1 C.

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08-15-2012, 01:10 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allan5oh View Post
Why is Grabovski not considered a #1C? Take a look at NHL.com, he's 31st in points for centers last year. Bozak is right behind him. Do Toronto fans think if they had an elite #1C that Kessel would produce more?
That is without factorig in true 1C that either were underperforming or injured as many would rather players who were under him like Crosby, Staal, Kesler, Lecavlier, Richards, Backstrom, Koivu, Duchene, etc. He is a good to avg 2C on a playoff team.

Quote:
Originally Posted by brochenski View Post
Is it just me or do Leafs fan underrate Grabovski? He was 29th in P/60 (even stength) among centers last season, and has great possession numbers against top lines. IMO he's a first line center. Why not put Grabovski with Kessel? Kessel has always been just average at possession, so he needs to play with a player like Grabovski to score as many goals as he is capable of.

They can always play Kadri/Connolly/Colborne/JVR 2nd line. Or is there something about Grabovski that I'm missing?
They haven't displayed much if any chemistry together, so that is why.

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08-15-2012, 01:13 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by LeafsLegends View Post
water + food+shelter for oxygen
Water you can last for about 3-5 days without, Food more than 2 months, and truly don't need shelter, but Oxygen is the thing keeping you alive and keeping your lungs and heart going right now, and you need it.

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08-15-2012, 01:15 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Leaffan16 View Post
Water you can last for about 3-5 days without, Food more than 2 months, and truly don't need shelter, but Oxygen is the thing keeping you alive and keeping your lungs and heart going right now, and you need it.
You missed the point you cant go an extended period of time without having all of them so what is the point of trading one for the other or in this case 3 for 1.

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08-15-2012, 01:33 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Leaffan16 View Post
He is a good to avg 2C on a playoff team.
That is really underrating Grabovksi. He's a great #2 centre. He plays tough minutes and produces, those players are pretty rare.

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08-15-2012, 01:34 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Leaffan16 View Post
That is without factorig in true 1C that either were underperforming or injured as many would rather players who were under him like Crosby, Staal, Kesler, Lecavlier, Richards, Backstrom, Koivu, Duchene, etc. He is a good to avg 2C on a playoff team.
1) That's going to happen every year

2) You're also going to have "over performers". Who would've thought Jokinen would be by far the #1 C available July 1st?

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08-15-2012, 01:42 AM
  #42
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Bozak + Kadri + Colborne + Holzer + 2nd is what I have in mind for a #1C.

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08-15-2012, 02:45 AM
  #43
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stastny for phaneuf

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08-15-2012, 02:51 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Henrik To Daniel View Post
stastny for phaneuf
Sounds reasonable, but I'm not a fan of either team. It addresses the needs of both teams, but kinda makes the whole schenn for JVR trade bad for the Leafs.

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08-15-2012, 02:53 AM
  #45
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My question is, what centerman could you get for:

MacA-Grabs-Kulemin in a package. You could give a team an entire 2nd/3rd line. What upgrade or young player could you get back?

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08-15-2012, 03:19 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Henrik To Daniel View Post
stastny for phaneuf
I would do that from a Leafs POV.

It would obviously suck to lose Phaneuf, but Leafs need a #1 C and have for a while so getting Stastny would fill a need.

Phaneuf is our best D man and it we wouldn't be able to replace him internally or through free agency this year but we could always sign someone like Hannan or Kubina or someone else if we could not land one of those 2 to try and fill the void left by Phaneuf until we could find a more permanent solution either internally, through trade or through free agency later on.

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08-15-2012, 03:22 AM
  #47
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grabo is not getting traded... he just signed a new contract...

and can people stop putting kessel in deals with a 1C coming back.. the point of the 1C is to play with kessel.

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08-15-2012, 03:32 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by TML g u n n e R s View Post
grabo is not getting traded... he just signed a new contract...

and can people stop putting kessel in deals with a 1C coming back.. the point of the 1C is to play with kessel.
Guess you're screwed then.

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08-15-2012, 03:34 AM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braden Carlzner View Post
Guess you're screwed then.
yea cause trading kessel is the only way we are getting a 1C...

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08-15-2012, 03:40 AM
  #50
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Originally Posted by TML g u n n e R s View Post
yea cause trading kessel is the only way we are getting a 1C...
No, but the point is without Kessel in the deal you're going to have to give up a lot. Likely more than you want. Likely enough that if anyone proposed it you'd call them crazy. Number one centers are probably the most coveted players in the league. Those guys are really hard to come by. You won't pry one from another team without a huge payment. You need an embarrassment of riches in the minors or extremely talented NHL depth at a certain position to get teams to listen to offers for a 1st line C. I don't think Toronto really has that, and while I think they could put together a decent package, I think they'd likely be outbid by other teams.

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