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Grabovski+ for your 1C

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Old
08-15-2012, 01:40 PM
  #101
danaluvsthekings
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What number one centers do Leafs fans reasonably see as being available?

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08-15-2012, 01:46 PM
  #102
Vankiller Whale
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Schneider + Kesler
for
Grabovski, Kessel, Rielly/Gardiner


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08-15-2012, 01:48 PM
  #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebluemachine View Post
Most amusing thing I've read all day, Toronto has the pieces (Gardiner, Rielly, Colborne, Kadri, draft picks and on and on) it's about if a true 1C actually becomes available.
Give me an example of what combination of those pieces you would trade and who would be coming back.

You'll realize there is no team interested in giving up a #1C for those pieces. It would need to be Gardiner+Grabo (ie. players who can make an immediate impact) or Phaneuf+ something significant.

Teams with #1C don't trade them unless they have 2. Teams with 2 #1C are contenders and not looking for picks/prospects.

As mentioned, Colorado may be the only exception.

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08-15-2012, 01:48 PM
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Schneider + Kesler
for
Grabovski, Kessel, Rielly/Gardiner

Kessel and kesler are similar in value and then grabo and reilly or gardiner for a goalie who isnt an established #1 come on man lets be realistic here.

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08-15-2012, 01:51 PM
  #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danaluvsthekings View Post
What number one centers do Leafs fans reasonably see as being available?
Apparently all of em except Crosby and Malkin

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08-15-2012, 01:53 PM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeafsLegends View Post
Kessel and kesler are similar in value and then grabo and reilly or gardiner for a goalie who isnt an established #1 come on man lets be realistic here.
Alright, switch Schneider for Luongo then.x2

An we literally fill the two biggest holes in you franchise. You can afford to overpay.

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08-15-2012, 01:58 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by bikesbikesbikes View Post
Realistically, I think Toronto could target Pat Kane, Getzlaf or Thornton, but be ready to overpay and send youth back the other way. Stastny might be obtainable for Grabo +, but I don't see him as a #1 guy.

The best option is to target high potential centers who are coming off of bad years / are suddenly replaceable: Matt Duchene comes to mind.
Kane is a much better winger than center. Even so, beyond Grabovski, Toronto doesn't really have anything Chicago wants.

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Old
08-15-2012, 02:20 PM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Schneider + Kesler
for
Grabovski, Kessel, Rielly/Gardiner

Terrible.
Rielly/Gardiner>Schneider
Kessel>Kesler
Grabovski>>>>>nothing

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08-15-2012, 02:25 PM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaffan16 View Post
Terrible.
Rielly/Gardiner>Schneider
Kessel>Kesler
Grabovski>>>>>nothing
Nah, Schneider>Gardiner
Kesler=Kessel(factor in position, defensive play, physicality)

Grabovski- part difference between Schneider/Gardiner, part overpayment neccessary.

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Old
08-15-2012, 02:28 PM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sureves View Post
Give me an example of what combination of those pieces you would trade and who would be coming back.

You'll realize there is no team interested in giving up a #1C for those pieces. It would need to be Gardiner+Grabo (ie. players who can make an immediate impact) or Phaneuf+ something significant.

Teams with #1C don't trade them unless they have 2. Teams with 2 #1C are contenders and not looking for picks/prospects.

As mentioned, Colorado may be the only exception.
Holmgren asked for Kadri and Kulemin for Mike Richards not too long ago. Toronto has more then enough pieces to get a 1C if one becomes available again.

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08-15-2012, 02:31 PM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Nah, Schneider>Gardiner
Kesler=Kessel(factor in position, defensive play, physicality)

Grabovski- part difference between Schneider/Gardiner, part overpayment neccessary.
We each value our Kes's more so I'll agree on the equal. But goalies just don't have much value in trades, and you excluded Rielly, and there is no overpayment ever neccessary.

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08-15-2012, 02:31 PM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bikesbikesbikes View Post
Sure, true. But he'd be cheaper than any of the other 3 I mentioned, and I'm sure he wouldn't mind playing in his home province. I think he'd look pretty good centering your top line.
No he wouldn't be cheaper then any of those players. Why would he be replaceable?

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08-15-2012, 02:36 PM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaffan16 View Post
We each value our Kes's more so I'll agree on the equal. But goalies just don't have much value in trades, and you excluded Rielly, and there is no overpayment ever neccessary.
Well how about Luongo + Kesler for Grabovski+ Kessel then.

Kes=Kes
Lu=Grabo

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08-15-2012, 02:41 PM
  #114
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You know everyone rips on leaf fans and usually I feel bad about it but this is the **** that causes it. You do not trade a 2nd line center as the centerpiece of a package to get a first line center. Trades do not work like that. Add Gardiner+Grabo and now you getting closer to getting a mid tier 1st line center

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08-15-2012, 02:44 PM
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Well how about Luongo + Kesler for Grabovski+ Kessel then.

Kes=Kes
Lu=Grabo
Grabo>>Lu. Keep on trying

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08-15-2012, 02:46 PM
  #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaffan16 View Post
Grabo>>Lu. Keep on trying
Not really. Grabo has a higher cap hit than Luongo, and Luongo's contract can be buried in the minors whenever you want, and most importantly, Luongo's a better player. The only reason why normally he would be off the table is because the Leafs would be left without a top 6 centre.

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08-15-2012, 03:00 PM
  #117
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I have a hard time evaluating Kesler's value. Do I put him at his relatively consistent mid 20 goal output or his outlier 40 goal selke winning season when he didn't play the most defensive minutes for his team. Similar to Mike Richards maybe?? Richards was had for a young 3rd line roster player, a top prospect, and a 2nd.


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Old
08-15-2012, 03:10 PM
  #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebluemachine View Post
Holmgren asked for Kadri and Kulemin for Mike Richards not too long ago. Toronto has more then enough pieces to get a 1C if one becomes available again.
Whoops, probably should have done that trade. I don't think 7 goal Kulemin has quite as much value as 30 goal Kulemin had.

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08-15-2012, 03:12 PM
  #119
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Gardiner + Grabo for Stastny is the best Leaf fans can hope for to get a 1 center but that's a trade Leaf fans would hate because it's not a clear steal for their team. Organizations don't just give away #1 Centers though and require an overpayment, even if they have more than one they're not just going to ship one off for a decent offer.

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08-15-2012, 03:25 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by WarriorofTime View Post
Whoops, probably should have done that trade. I don't think 7 goal Kulemin has quite as much value as 30 goal Kulemin had.
Unfortunately Holmgren's preference was to move Richards out of the conference when he was shopping him. Clearly he found another suitor and the rest is history. I wouldn't want to play against an angry Richards a few times a year after I traded him away either.

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08-15-2012, 03:28 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by WarriorofTime View Post
Gardiner + Grabo for Stastny is the best Leaf fans can hope for to get a 1 center but that's a trade Leaf fans would hate because it's not a clear steal for their team. Organizations don't just give away #1 Centers though and require an overpayment, even if they have more than one they're not just going to ship one off for a decent offer.
Wouldn't trade Gardiner straight up for Stastny. As of right now Stastny is not even an upgrade over Grabo.

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08-15-2012, 03:31 PM
  #122
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Here's a fun treat of a hypothetical - The Sedins to Toronto

...

Seriously though, I don't see any number one centers being available, and any that could be wouldn't be had for a lesser center+.

Hypothetically, let's say Getzlaf is (he isn't unless the Ducks tank and he is asking for a kings ransom for his next contract)...would any team move a bonafide #1 for a #1/#2+?

Ditto Toews from Chicago.

Marleau/Thorton/Couture/Pavelski from San Jose...either better or younger/cheaper players for another center and a prospect or pick would be hard to swallow.

Statsny/O'Reilly/Duchene from Colorado has a similar problem trading one center for a lesser center.

Same with the Kings, who have, near as I can tell, 3 number 1 centers.

Kesler from Vancouver would kind, sort of, make sense if he wanted out, but he doesn't. Montreal fans seem willing to give up Plecs for the right price, which wouldn't be Grabovski+.

Staal/Staal or Crosby/Malkin from Carolina and Pittsburgh, Washingtons top centers and future top centers, any team with multiple top 30-40 centers either don't have any reason to move their centers, or don't need another one back, or both.

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08-15-2012, 03:41 PM
  #123
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Anyone here old enough to remember when Leaf fans were pimping Bozak as their 1st line C of the future? Makes me chuckle.

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08-15-2012, 03:44 PM
  #124
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The price for getzlaf if he is refusing to sign with Anaheim would become a likely bidding war....

What would Toronto be willing to give?

That in all honesty s your best shot at getting a #1 center

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08-15-2012, 03:46 PM
  #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebluemachine View Post
Wouldn't trade Gardiner straight up for Stastny. As of right now Stastny is not even an upgrade over Grabo.
Stastny is 26 with four seasons of proven #1 Center capabilities. With a bigger role the Leafs could provide (give Stastny the ice time Tyler Bozak is getting and probably a little more) he'll definitely give you more than Grabovski or Gardiner. But like I said he's not the ideal candidate for Toronto but if you're hell-bent on getting a #1 Center then that's what it would take. Otherwise go in with Bozak and Grabovski down the line 1-2 and take your chances. Jason Spezza, Jonathan Toews, Brad Richards, Anze Kopitar or any other more ideal candidate are not up for sale. Stastny is one of the only players who I could reasonably see being moved (barring some new circumstance obviously where a player is unhappy or whatever) who could also reasonably be called a #1 Center.

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