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Another Burke thread- a happy one for once!

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Old
08-16-2012, 10:02 AM
  #51
Rinzler
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Speaking globally and generally Burke's best move(s) are those still to come, that turn the Leafs from pretenders into contenders again, without borrowing from the future, and sacrificing picks and prospects in the process to do so.

Good moves defined as those that advance the team forward, and up the standings and into the playoffs to compete for the Stanley Cup.
Results and trades are important factors but even more important is Leadership and instilling a winning culture first and is almost always overlooked on these boards. If done properly, the leadership will drive the success but this process doesn't happen overnight.

This is why Burke is very safe in his job, he's a fantastic manager and it's apparent from the moment he sat in the big seat. I always point to Gauthier as to how a GM gets fired. He lacked the leadership necessary to get the job done as evidenced by his multiple highly visible managerial mis-steps.

Burke demonstrated Personal Accountability, Integrity and Situational Ownership and is perpetuating that Culture across his organization. This is how you build a winner, not by simply acquiring a collection of hockey players.

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08-16-2012, 10:10 AM
  #52
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I wonder how Ian White will pan out though. I know he's been moved twice since going to Calgary, but he did put up a pretty decent number of points on the Red Wings after a pretty decent playoff performance with the Sharks. (This is the part where I admit I watched maybe two Red Wings games all year)

It'll be interesting to see how he does without Lidstrom on the back end anymore; and if he can keep developing at this point.
I'm pretty sure playing with one of the greatest defencemen of all time helped him out. White was horrid when he first started out with the Leafs, but has built himself a decent career since then with Toronto and other teams since.

Remember when everyone was trying to say Ian White was the best player in the Phaneuf deal for a while? Yeah, I laughed hard too.

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08-16-2012, 10:41 AM
  #53
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whoa, third page, and this isn't a raging ball of Burke-hate yet.



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08-16-2012, 10:43 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Volcanologist View Post
I'm pretty sure playing with one of the greatest defencemen of all time helped him out. White was horrid when he first started out with the Leafs, but has built himself a decent career since then with Toronto and other teams since.

Remember when everyone was trying to say Ian White was the best player in the Phaneuf deal for a while? Yeah, I laughed hard too.
As much as I wish it was the opposite, having been a huge Phaneuf fan when he started out, and seeing his fall from grace, I'll admit I was probably one of those people. It's been good to see him at least mostly return to form.

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08-16-2012, 11:46 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by glucker View Post
whoa, third page, and this isn't a raging ball of Burke-hate yet.


I know, it's awesome, even some I would have expected to have been very respectful, actually kinda restoring my faith in these boards a bit.

Surprised at the number of Kessel approvals too!

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08-16-2012, 11:47 AM
  #56
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As much as I wish it was the opposite, having been a huge Phaneuf fan when he started out, and seeing his fall from grace, I'll admit I was probably one of those people. It's been good to see him at least mostly return to form.
Meh, we all do it. I was sure that Seguins draft year was a fluke, looks like the kid is gonna be a bonafide star.

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08-16-2012, 12:00 PM
  #57
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For me,

Bringing Gardiner and Lupul for Beauchemin. ( I think this should be consensus #1)

Trading Kabs for more than I thought we would get

Acquiring Franson for almost nothing.

Firing wilson.

Getting JVR for Schenn.

Getting Phaneuf for a pile of crap.

Getting Kessel for what was supposed to be a bargain.

In order of 'goodness' .

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08-16-2012, 12:20 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by LeeIs View Post
For me,

Bringing Gardiner and Lupul for Beauchemin. ( I think this should be consensus #1)

Trading Kabs for more than I thought we would get

Acquiring Franson for almost nothing.

Firing wilson.

Getting JVR for Schenn.

Getting Phaneuf for a pile of crap.

Getting Kessel for what was supposed to be a bargain.

In order of 'goodness' .
The Kessel trade had potential to be really good.

We had finished 24th, then we added Beauch, Komi, Kessel.

You'd have though we would have moved up a couple spots, maybe 22nd/21st.

And improved a few more spots the next draft maybe moved up to 19th/18th.

Which would of meant Burmistrov/Granlund/McIlrath + Brodin/Siemens/Murphy

Which would have been a very good trade.

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08-16-2012, 03:02 PM
  #59
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At this point I do like the Schenn for JVR trade. I think we won that deal. It was a great trade for a top six forward. With the surplus of d-men this was a trade Burke had to make. Great job Burkie.

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08-16-2012, 03:06 PM
  #60
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Trading for JML.....re-signing him for 4 years, not so much.

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08-16-2012, 03:36 PM
  #61
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I like Gardiner and Lupul for Beauchemin

I like Franson and Lombardi for Lebda + contract

I love the Kessel trade, even at the heavy cost.

Love, love, love the Giguere deal. Probably a favourite of mine, although Giggy was injured so much. But still, dumping Blake and Toskala for anything was immense.

I'm turning the corner on the Versteeg trade, the first iteration. Not seeing what I thought I'd see out of Stalberg, DiDomenico and Paradis. Which is in turn increasing my enjoyment out of the second Versteeg trade, namely the acquisition of Percy. Josh Leivo is just icing, but I am getting to really like Percy's chances of making an impact on the blueline.

On the fence about the hiring of Randy Carlyle. Not sure yet if I might've preferred to see the promotion of Dallas Eakins instead.

I'm on the fence about both of our lateral moves: Schenn for JvR and Aulie for Ashton. Need to see JvR find a place on the team, and Ashton needs to define himself a bit. I'm thinking Leaf fans will grow to love both, simply because they jettisoned excess pieces for areas the team actually was deficient, although I think Aulie was much closer to being ready for full-time NHL duties...

I like the promise that hangs on Rielly's shoulders. I think that's a good draft pick.

I guess my favourite move, as things stand, is the acquisition of Phaneuf. Hasn't had the best records since arriving, but he still has many years left on the books and is getting better every year, growing into the position of captain and I think he'll be, in maybe 3-4 years, one of the most coveted players in the NHL. All he needs to do at this point is have another season like last year, only with the team making the playoffs.

Once the Leafs start serious post-season runs, and have winning seasons good enough to make the playoffs, the fans will quickly forget their distate for Phaneufs mistakes or wild, reckless play. He has all the makings of being a fan legend.

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08-16-2012, 03:43 PM
  #62
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When you look at the body of work he has done as far as trades and signings go without people yelling about the leafs missing the playoffs things look pretty darn good for burke.

For the most part every deal has been either a clear win or a debatable issue like the Kessel trade (not gonna call that a win even though thats what I consider it, but I will suggest that it is debatable and not a clearcut loss). The only thing I can think of that at this point looks like a clearcut loss is the Connolly signing, but who knows, maybe he plays well this year.

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08-16-2012, 04:52 PM
  #63
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Ima go with burkes worst move and u gotta say the kubina deal... Like u can't say he made a bad deal ever (where we gave up a good player and the player coming back is a dud) we saw this a lot with fletcher (steen coli for stemp) and with jfj (rask, toskalol)

His best is the lupul deal but the phaneuf trade is huge aswell.

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Old
08-16-2012, 05:13 PM
  #64
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His best move was not trading our future away for old players that will win now but not tomorrow, he has built a very young team to grow together and has a great line of prospects from which our best prospect before Burke was? Williams? Earl? Lol just terrible, JFJ ruined the team and he is putting it back together, it may not be fast enough for some but it will be better off in the long run. If a lockout happened we would get another top 5 pick in a very good draft

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08-16-2012, 06:08 PM
  #65
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whoa, third page, and this isn't a raging ball of Burke-hate yet.


Well the OP did want a happy thread

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08-16-2012, 06:15 PM
  #66
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The day we got Phanuef I was giddy as a school girl. By far my favourite move, bringing in our captain. Always loved Phaneuf, never in a million years did I think he would ever be a leaf.

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08-16-2012, 07:06 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by indigobuffalo View Post
I like Gardiner and Lupul for Beauchemin

I like Franson and Lombardi for Lebda + contract

I love the Kessel trade, even at the heavy cost.

Love, love, love the Giguere deal. Probably a favourite of mine, although Giggy was injured so much. But still, dumping Blake and Toskala for anything was immense.

I'm turning the corner on the Versteeg trade, the first iteration. Not seeing what I thought I'd see out of Stalberg, DiDomenico and Paradis. Which is in turn increasing my enjoyment out of the second Versteeg trade, namely the acquisition of Percy. Josh Leivo is just icing, but I am getting to really like Percy's chances of making an impact on the blueline.

On the fence about the hiring of Randy Carlyle. Not sure yet if I might've preferred to see the promotion of Dallas Eakins instead.

I'm on the fence about both of our lateral moves: Schenn for JvR and Aulie for Ashton. Need to see JvR find a place on the team, and Ashton needs to define himself a bit. I'm thinking Leaf fans will grow to love both, simply because they jettisoned excess pieces for areas the team actually was deficient, although I think Aulie was much closer to being ready for full-time NHL duties...

I like the promise that hangs on Rielly's shoulders. I think that's a good draft pick.

I guess my favourite move, as things stand, is the acquisition of Phaneuf. Hasn't had the best records since arriving, but he still has many years left on the books and is getting better every year, growing into the position of captain and I think he'll be, in maybe 3-4 years, one of the most coveted players in the NHL. All he needs to do at this point is have another season like last year, only with the team making the playoffs.

Once the Leafs start serious post-season runs, and have winning seasons good enough to make the playoffs, the fans will quickly forget their distate for Phaneufs mistakes or wild, reckless play. He has all the makings of being a fan legend.
Can't say i'm thrilled with the Aulie/Ashton trade.

Aulie looked like he was holding his own in the bigs and i thought Ashton looked miles away.

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08-16-2012, 08:25 PM
  #68
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I would say the Beauchemin trade best represents what I see as his "vision" (regardless of the result). From day one his intent has been to build a young, skilled team with depth in the organization that will eventually allow him to replace from within. He picked up some vets to try to address certain needs while the young guys developed and when someone proved they could push someone else out, he would move the stop gap. Aulie rendered Beauchemin expendable. Burke did as he said he would (use his money as leverage in deals) and took on Lupul in landing Gardiner. Gardiner then rendered Kaberle expendable who in turn landed us Colborne, Biggs and Liles. My hope is that Kadri is full time by season's end and makes one of the other fillers expendable in the same fashion. The replacement from within is coming soon.

I'm amazed people never seem to mention that we still have a draft pick coming from the Beauchemin deal.

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Old
08-17-2012, 06:52 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by eyeball11 View Post
I would say the Beauchemin trade best represents what I see as his "vision" (regardless of the result). From day one his intent has been to build a young, skilled team with depth in the organization that will eventually allow him to replace from within. He picked up some vets to try to address certain needs while the young guys developed and when someone proved they could push someone else out, he would move the stop gap. Aulie rendered Beauchemin expendable. Burke did as he said he would (use his money as leverage in deals) and took on Lupul in landing Gardiner. Gardiner then rendered Kaberle expendable who in turn landed us Colborne, Biggs and Liles. My hope is that Kadri is full time by season's end and makes one of the other fillers expendable in the same fashion. The replacement from within is coming soon.

I'm amazed people never seem to mention that we still have a draft pick coming from the Beauchemin deal.
I think Mess said it best, his best deals may be yet to come. Liles is signed to a very reasonable contract. If one of our glut of young defensemen take that next step, he is a very good piece to be added to somebody else's puzzle.

If Kadri steps up, or JVR works out, Frattin sticks or Colborne, Biggs, Ross etc take that next step, suddenly Mac, Connolly, lombardi, steckel become expendable. We're not talking high end first rounders, but youth none the less. When is the last time we could say we are doing that in Toronto?

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08-17-2012, 06:52 AM
  #70
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I love the Kessel trade, even if I am in the minority.

Big fan of the Phaneuf trade as well, but I think the Lupul and Gards trade has to be his best move. Rielly could also be very good, but way to early to tell for sure.

A big one is the Giggy trade, got a great goalie for literally a bag (more like net full) of pucks.

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08-17-2012, 06:56 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Kessly Snipes View Post
I love the Kessel trade, even if I am in the minority.

Big fan of the Phaneuf trade as well, but I think the Lupul and Gards trade has to be his best move. Rielly could also be very good, but way to early to tell for sure.

A big one is the Giggy trade, got a great goalie for literally a bag (more like net full) of pucks.
I don't think that the minority is as small as everyone thought.

As for Giggy, agreed, although I do wish we had held onto him. I think it would have been great to have that veteran presence with our goalies.

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08-17-2012, 07:11 AM
  #72
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I don't think that the minority is as small as everyone thought.

As for Giggy, agreed, although I do wish we had held onto him. I think it would have been great to have that veteran presence with our goalies.
Agreed. I also like the Kessel deal.

If I had to pick a deal I didn't like it would be the JVR/Schenn deal. It was a lateral move for the most part but I had hopes for Schenn to grow into that prototypical shutdown defenseman. I also believed he'd be with the team for many years to come and went out and bought his jersey. Hope he does well in Philly, just not against the Leafs.

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08-17-2012, 07:34 AM
  #73
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Speaking globally and generally Burke's best move(s) are those still to come, that turn the Leafs from pretenders into contenders again, without borrowing from the future, and sacrificing picks and prospects in the process to do so.

Good moves defined as those that advance the team forward, and up the standings and into the playoffs to compete for the Stanley Cup.
Good one Mess. Very clever.

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08-17-2012, 08:31 AM
  #74
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Trading for JML.....re-signing him for 4 years, not so much.
Depends which Liles we get in those 4 years. The post injury Liles that scored only 6 points, or the pre injury liles that scored 21? The minus on the ice Liles, that contributed to a goals against average of 4.05, or the plus on the ice Liles that contributed to a goals against average of 2.8 (without him we let in 2.65 GAA).

With pre-injury and plus Liles (and a .910 goalie) life is pretty awesome. Post injury liles? Not so much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by indigobuffalo View Post
I'm turning the corner on the Versteeg trade, the first iteration. Not seeing what I thought I'd see out of Stalberg, DiDomenico and Paradis. Which is in turn increasing my enjoyment out of the second Versteeg trade, namely the acquisition of Percy. Josh Leivo is just icing, but I am getting to really like Percy's chances of making an impact on the blueline.

I'm on the fence about both of our lateral moves: Schenn for JvR and Aulie for Ashton. Need to see JvR find a place on the team, and Ashton needs to define himself a bit. I'm thinking Leaf fans will grow to love both, simply because they jettisoned excess pieces for areas the team actually was deficient, although I think Aulie was much closer to being ready for full-time NHL duties...

I like the promise that hangs on Rielly's shoulders. I think that's a good draft pick.

I guess my favourite move, as things stand, is the acquisition of Phaneuf. Hasn't had the best records since arriving, but he still has many years left on the books and is getting better every year, growing into the position of captain and I think he'll be, in maybe 3-4 years, one of the most coveted players in the NHL. All he needs to do at this point is have another season like last year, only with the team making the playoffs.
I was very much unhappy with the Versteeg trade. I wasn't a fan of his and in turn was of Stalberg. His play on teh Leafs (although not bad) didn't help much. However I'm much the same as you. The Chicago pieces haven't done much and the second iteration of the trade is working out well so far. Percy is looking like a nice piece with solid potential of reaching the NHL and Leivo is looking solid. It's nice to see two pieces with good potential for a player that wasn't working for us.

Aulie for Ashton was one I'm not so happy with now. Aulie was struggling a little but it happens. My issue now is that if Burke had been talking about trading Schenn for months, why would he trade a player that could feasible replace him? That's what makes this trade iffy in my mind. It seemed like a trade to appease those needing a move for the sake of a move, and for Burke's apparent need for truculence. Now to be fair to Ashton, it was his first pro season and he did suffer through injuries. He was playing like a beast early in the season and it's entirely possible he learns how to play like that more consistently. But until that happens I'm not so happy with this move.

I'm more ok with Schenn for JVR. Schenn wasn't going to hit his potential here and as much as we are going to miss his physicalness, getting a player like JVR was more important. The upside to JVR is much much higher. It's a bet but it's one I'm willing to take. Burke had a choice between seeing Schenn risk not improving at all and hurting his trade value or trading him now. It's one I'm ok seeing. It's not the safe move and I actually like that. We've missed that in him since the Kessel trade.

Reilly is looking good. Originally I wasn't to happy with the pick but it does give us a potential high end offensive QB on the backend and that could be a huge thing. He's only making me like the pick the more he plays too.

And Phaneuf. Yeah he's not hitting numbers he saw in Calgary but he's not exactly slouching on them. He was still top 12 in dman scoring, while playing high minutes that included a shutdown nature to them. He's better than people give him credit for.

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08-17-2012, 08:38 AM
  #75
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Agreed. I also like the Kessel deal.

If I had to pick a deal I didn't like it would be the JVR/Schenn deal. It was a lateral move for the most part but I had hopes for Schenn to grow into that prototypical shutdown defenseman. I also believed he'd be with the team for many years to come and went out and bought his jersey. Hope he does well in Philly, just not against the Leafs.
Do you not like the deal because of Schenn's potential or because you bought a jersey thinking he'd be a life long Leaf?

The trade was a good trade from a potential standpoint. Schenn on the Leafs hasn't been successful. He has some good potential but the more he played the more it became apparent that he wasn't going to reach it on the Leafs. So Burke capitalized on a situation to grab a high potential player, one with higher potential than Schenn.

It's not often you get the chance to get a potentially dominant winger with size, one who is a year removed from a playoff series that everyone was saying was his coming out party.

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