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Kadri To Penguins

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Old
08-17-2012, 12:56 PM
  #176
ManInTheBox
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A1LeafNation View Post
Kadri is developing similar to Couture.

Couture's third season in the NHL
25GP 5G 4A

Kadri's third season in the NHL
21GP 5G 2A

Is it a shock to see Kadri step up full time going into his 4th season ala Couture? No.

Just the same old boring HFboards hate to anything that is Leafs.
I'll forego responding to the poster before you and his childish personal attacks and zero in on what you've presented here in clear statistical form.

Would it "shock" me to see Kadri become a 60 pt 1st/2nd line centre? No, I'd place that within the realm of distinct possibility. He's even very comparable to a player like Couture. I agree on that point.

But, you will have to excuse me. Try to understand that I do not feel the likelihood of him reaching his potential is greater that the likelihood of him busting. I have attempted to communicate this in the nicest way possible.

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08-17-2012, 12:58 PM
  #177
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ILoveLuci View Post
I'll forego responding to the poster before you and his childish personal attacks and zero in on what you've presented here in clear statistical form.

Would it "shock" me to see Kadri become a 60 pt 1st/2nd line centre? No, I'd place that within the realm of distinct possibility. He's even very comparable to a player like Couture. I agree on that point.

But, you will have to excuse me. Try to understand that I do not feel the likelihood of him reaching his potential is greater that the likelihood of him busting. I have attempted to communicate this in the nicest way possible.
He's still very much a boom or bust prospect we've seen positive signs leaning towards the former. If he 'booms', watch out!

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08-17-2012, 12:59 PM
  #178
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Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
Lets say Detroit has a 21 year old player, who was nearly a PPG in the AHL, and relatively productive in limited NHL time.

He had a ridiculous resume in juniors, and was about to break into the NHL.

Would he not be considered "untouchable" and require an overpayment from other NHL armchair GM's?
Maybe it has more to do with Detroit is being regarded as an organization that can develop draft picks to play at a high level for their organization and the Leafs have had trouble doing this since the mid 80's?


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08-17-2012, 01:02 PM
  #179
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
Honest Question:

Do you think if Nazem Kadri had been drafted by Detroit, people would say hes being "developed properly" and regarded as one of the top prospects on HFBoards?

But since hes one of the Leafs prospects, hes a bust, and all around not a very good prospect?
Apples and oranges. If he'd been drafted by Detroit, he'd be behind Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Flip, and sometimes Franzen on the depth chart so it wouldn't be expected of him to make the lineup or get any amount of ice time necessary to showcase himself. In Toronto he has to beat out ... Tim Connolly. And he hasn't. Big difference.

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08-17-2012, 01:02 PM
  #180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
Lets say Detroit has a 21 year old player, who was nearly a PPG in the AHL, and relatively productive in limited NHL time.

He had a ridiculous resume in juniors, and was about to break into the NHL.

Would he not be considered "untouchable" and require an overpayment from other NHL armchair GM's?
I wouldn't use the word untouchable but yes it would take something substantial to pry away a teams highest (one of) ranked prospects.

Take Hodgson for example, he was traded for another excellent young prospect in Kassian. A trade I felt Vancouver didn't have to make (unless Cody asked to be traded) but that's another subject on it's own.

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08-17-2012, 01:03 PM
  #181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jules Winnfield View Post
Maybe it has more to do with Detroit is being regarded as an organization that can develop draft picks to play at a high level for their organization and the Leafs have had trouble doing this since the mid 80's?

I bet if you looked since the 90s the Leafs have churned out more NHL level players from the draft than Detroit. Detroit's claim to fame is finding Zetterberg and Datsyuk in the 90s and Fedorov and Lidstrom in the late 80s. Congratulations on hitting the jackpot twice in two different decades

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08-17-2012, 01:07 PM
  #182
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Kadri is better than any prospect Pittsburgh has. So a prospect deal likely doesn't make sense. Keep in mind Toronto needs upgrades / "elite" players, not secondary players. Is Kadri likely to reach that status? At this point, no. But his chances are still better than the pieces Pittsburgh would be willing to give up for him.

Kadri doesn't have nearly enough value to get any of the pieces from Pittsburgh we would want in a deal that involved giving him up (Crosby, Malkin, Neal, Letang, Fleury).

Kadri isn't going to be traded for some secondary piece like Kunitz, Kennedy, etc.

I really don't see a good deal to be made.

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08-17-2012, 01:09 PM
  #183
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Originally Posted by Pens1566 View Post
Apples and oranges. If he'd been drafted by Detroit, he'd be behind Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Flip, and sometimes Franzen on the depth chart so it wouldn't be expected of him to make the lineup or get any amount of ice time necessary to showcase himself. In Toronto he has to beat out ... Tim Connolly. And he hasn't. Big difference.
Connolly was initially brought in to center our 1st line between Kessel and Lupul. Grabo already centers our 2nd and there is no reason to change that. There aren't many prospects that step right into the NHL and are expected to hold it down centering the 1st line but I guarantee you there aren't many. Kadri's game is also not suited for the bottom 6 so I suggest to do a little homework about the make up of our team before suggesting what he should have or not have done.

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08-17-2012, 01:28 PM
  #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GordieHoweHatTrick View Post
I bet if you looked since the 90s the Leafs have churned out more NHL level players from the draft than Detroit. Detroit's claim to fame is finding Zetterberg and Datsyuk in the 90s and Fedorov and Lidstrom in the late 80s. Congratulations on hitting the jackpot twice in two different decades
NHL level players isn't my point. My point is do they play for the Leafs? Anyone can draft a player, but do you trade him and he's developed elsewhere, etc?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...fs_draft_picks

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...gs_draft_picks

The Leafs have not had their jackpot since the 80's with Iafrate, Clark, and Damphousse. Unless you count Seguin

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08-17-2012, 01:35 PM
  #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jules Winnfield View Post
NHL level players isn't my point. My point is do they play for the Leafs? Anyone can draft a player, but do you trade him and he's developed elsewhere, etc?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...fs_draft_picks

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...gs_draft_picks

The Leafs have not had their jackpot since the 80's with Iafrate, Clark, and Damphousse. Unless you count Seguin
In all fairness the last NHL regular Detroit drafted and is playing on their team is Helm (2005) and last NHL regular period is Shawn Matthias (2006)

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08-17-2012, 01:36 PM
  #186
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Originally Posted by ILoveLuci View Post
I'll forego responding to the poster before you and his childish personal attacks and zero in on what you've presented here in clear statistical form.

Would it "shock" me to see Kadri become a 60 pt 1st/2nd line centre? No, I'd place that within the realm of distinct possibility. He's even very comparable to a player like Couture. I agree on that point.

But, you will have to excuse me. Try to understand that I do not feel the likelihood of him reaching his potential is greater that the likelihood of him busting. I have attempted to communicate this in the nicest way possible.
Childish would be someone saying Kadri is over-hyped referencing Lindros, then turning around (after being called on it) and saying he can become a 60'ish point 1st/2nd line center in the NHL in the same breath.

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08-17-2012, 01:42 PM
  #187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebluemachine View Post
Connolly was initially brought in to center our 1st line between Kessel and Lupul. Grabo already centers our 2nd and there is no reason to change that. There aren't many prospects that step right into the NHL and are expected to hold it down centering the 1st line but I guarantee you there aren't many. Kadri's game is also not suited for the bottom 6 so I suggest to do a little homework about the make up of our team before suggesting what he should have or not have done.
That's why I only mentioned Connolly. So your theory explains why he didn't take the job right away. Great, good for him. What about in the several years since then? Remember, he was #7 overall, not some run of the mill prospect.

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08-17-2012, 01:43 PM
  #188
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Leafs are doubling down on Kadri this year. Unless it's in a deal for a top line center, they're either bringing him to the point where they won't trade him, or they can't (at least not for anything of real value.

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08-17-2012, 01:47 PM
  #189
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Originally Posted by Pens1566 View Post
That's why I only mentioned Connolly. So your theory explains why he didn't take the job right away. Great, good for him. What about in the several years since then? Remember, he was #7 overall, not some run of the mill prospect.
Are you suggesting Kadri was expected to center our 1st line when he was even younger?

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08-17-2012, 01:53 PM
  #190
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Originally Posted by Pens1566 View Post
Apples and oranges. If he'd been drafted by Detroit, he'd be behind Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Flip, and sometimes Franzen on the depth chart so it wouldn't be expected of him to make the lineup or get any amount of ice time necessary to showcase himself. In Toronto he has to beat out ... Tim Connolly. And he hasn't. Big difference.
Tim Connolly also makes $4.75 million and was brought in as a stop gap 1C.

Nevermind the fact that Kadri suffered a knee injury in preseason.

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08-17-2012, 01:54 PM
  #191
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Originally Posted by thebluemachine View Post
Are you suggesting Kadri was expected to center our 1st line when he was even younger?
I don't know how you're getting that out of my post. I conceded the first year. There have been seasons of hockey since then where he was no longer stepping "right into the NHL".

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08-17-2012, 01:59 PM
  #192
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Originally Posted by Pens1566 View Post
I don't know how you're getting that out of my post. I conceded the first year. There have been seasons of hockey since then where he was no longer stepping "right into the NHL".
Connolly has only played with us for 1 season and Kadri didn't step into the NHL full time before he arrived because he was being developed like 99% of all prospects.

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08-17-2012, 02:26 PM
  #193
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Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
In all fairness the last NHL regular Detroit drafted and is playing on their team is Helm (2005) and last NHL regular period is Shawn Matthias (2006)
You mentioned if you looked from the 90's...

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08-17-2012, 02:26 PM
  #194
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I wonder what the average age is of prospects who become full time NHL'ers (ie no more bak and forth from AHL to NHL).

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08-17-2012, 02:37 PM
  #195
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Originally Posted by 416Leafer View Post
Kadri is better than any prospect Pittsburgh has.
Bold statement.



Very bold.

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08-17-2012, 02:43 PM
  #196
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Originally Posted by Blitzburgh87 View Post
I think he has a significantly higher ceiling than Bennett and a much much higher ceiling than Kennedy.

Are you talking about Tyler Kennedy?? If so, are there any good prospects out there who don't have a much higher ceiling than Kennedy?

As for Bennett I haven't seen either enough to know but based on their draft pedigree and the fact we took a bit of a flyer on Bennett it's probably reasonable to assume higher upside. Certainly a better skater Bennett based on the recent evidence.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitsfan67 View Post
To Pittsburgh:Nazem Kadri


To Toronto:Tangradi
3rd 2013
Yah, that's not happening. Underpayment until Tangradi proves his worth, at which point there may not be need to trade him.


Quote:
Originally Posted by spiny norman View Post
I agree, it would take Harrington, who had greatly improved his standing since being drafted, and perhaps more to get Kadri away from the Leafs.
Further proof why this trade is a bad idea. Would not give up Harrington for Kadri, but probably would give up one of our newer, high profile guys for him (Pouliot) since they're farther from making our team but would probably make the Leafs at least a year sooner.

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08-17-2012, 02:49 PM
  #197
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Originally Posted by thebluemachine View Post
I wouldn't use the word untouchable but yes it would take something substantial to pry away a teams highest (one of) ranked prospects.

Take Hodgson for example, he was traded for another excellent young prospect in Kassian. A trade I felt Vancouver didn't have to make (unless Cody asked to be traded) but that's another subject on it's own.
Yes, not to OT this thread, but Cody had issues in Vancouver. Not sure what (my best guess is conflict with the coaching staff), but he requested a trade. If he had not, he'd still be a Canuck for sure.

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08-17-2012, 03:04 PM
  #198
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Originally Posted by thebluemachine View Post
Childish would be someone saying Kadri is over-hyped referencing Lindros, then turning around (after being called on it) and saying he can become a 60'ish point 1st/2nd line center in the NHL in the same breath.
The thing about Lindros, was that he could bang bodies and create fear. I think that (obviously combined with his points totals) were what set Lindros apart. I think you'll find Kadri to be over-hyped in that arena, while earning a top-6 role is something he could aim for.

Of course, there's always health.

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08-17-2012, 03:18 PM
  #199
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Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
Further proof why this trade is a bad idea. Would not give up Harrington for Kadri, but probably would give up one of our newer, high profile guys for him (Pouliot) since they're farther from making our team but would probably make the Leafs at least a year sooner.
If the scouting staff and Shero thought enough of Pouliot to take him eighth overall, no chance he goes for Kadri, whose value has not gone up to say the least since his draft.

I've never been a fan of Kadri's game since junior and I doubt he ever becomes an impact player at an NHL level. Wouldn't trade much for him, certainly not what the Leafs would want. His value to them is higher than to another team.

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08-17-2012, 03:20 PM
  #200
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Originally Posted by ILoveLuci View Post
The thing about Lindros, was that he could bang bodies and create fear. I think that (obviously combined with his points totals) were what set Lindros apart. I think you'll find Kadri to be over-hyped in that arena, while earning a top-6 role is something he could aim for.

Of course, there's always health.
Kadri isn't over-hyped in that area, he's known as a very skilled offensive forward with an edge to his game that will throw big hits. Lindros was 6'4/240lbs, he's just about the last hockey player I would be using to draw up some type of comparison to Kadri. They are world's apart.

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