HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Toronto Maple Leafs
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Phaneuf vs Gardiner vs Rielly

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
08-18-2012, 04:14 PM
  #76
JackJ
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,754
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by iPunch View Post
Phaneuf will be a better player when his d partner can cover his defensive mistakes
Fixed. Moving him to his natural side helped but it's still not enough.

JackJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-18-2012, 04:59 PM
  #77
Gobias Industries
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Gobias Industries's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,512
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Preisst View Post
So as I said making the comment that Rielly will need to be a HOFer to meet expectations was a severe exaggeration and was making a mountain out of a molehill.
Sorry, how do you rate players if not by prime? Career? Are you saying that Rielly's prime will be higher, yet somehow when you project the rest of Dion's career versus the hypothetical career of Rielly it comes out far ahead? You're being ridiculous in saying they're "completely different"...

And severe exaggeration?...

Guess what, if you go back and look at any player whose prime was above the Dion Phaneuf of 2008 they're likely either HHOF players or they're very, very, very good..

Gobias Industries is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-18-2012, 06:35 PM
  #78
ULF_55
Global Moderator
 
ULF_55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Mountain Standard Ti
Posts: 58,641
vCash: 500
I certainly hope:

Rielly > Gardiner > Phaneuf

That would lead to a good future, otherwise not so much.

__________________
http://kuklaskorner.com/index.php/ps...e_corsi_issues

Desjardins estimates that about 40% of the game is captured by Corsi analysis.
ULF_55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-18-2012, 08:07 PM
  #79
rdawg1234
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,239
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by nuck View Post
I disagree that Phaneuf will always be better. I guess it depends on how good you think he is now because I don't expect him to improve much, and certainly not to be the guy he was in Calgary. A useful player, but not a true #1 D on a strong club.

Gardner played sheltered minutes, with no physical aspect to his game, and had a good rookie year. Before we know his top end, I think he has to string two good years together in a row, because the sophomore jinx has not been kind to the Leafs in recent years. Gunnar looked like a future stud his rookie year.

Jake is still a long way away from ever becoming a #1 guy, even on a bad team. I think he compares to Kaberle at the same age(really closely actually), altho Kab's club was much stronger, so if he hits 40 points next year maybe that is the guy he could become, and if so, Kaberle at his best was better than Phaneuf has been in TO. I don't think Phaneuf has had his best Toronto years yet though, so that kind of confuses things and I think he is more likely to have a couple of more solid years, than Gardiner is to be Kaberle 2.0.

Reilly's top end is clearly the best. He already skates as well as Gardiner and was physically stronger at 17 than Gardiner at 21. Doughty? Bourque? The sky is really the limit for him. However he is a teenager coming off of a career to date of 46 points in 83 Junior games. I wouldn't bet the farm that he is even going to be a successful NHL player until he has done a lot more. Murray, Reinhart, Dumba, or one of four or so other D taken this year could turn out to be way better. Lets see a training camp, a healthy Junior year, a WJHC, and a Memorial Cup tournament.

Pure Potential
Rielly> Phaneuf> Gardiner

Bet your junk on it
Phaneuf> Rielly>Gardiner

Bet my junk on it
Phaneuf> Gardiner> ....................Rielly
Agreed on Jake but your Rielly numbers are a bit deceiving. He had a decent year at 15-16 and then an amazing start and finish to his 17 year old draft year. 18 points in 18 games and PPG in the playoffs. Also PPG at the most recent exhibition between Can/Russia.

There's no reason to look at his 15 year old numbers when his 17 year old numbers have him much closer to his potential. He'll only get better IMO.

I expect him to be near PPG in the OHL this season.

rdawg1234 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-18-2012, 08:32 PM
  #80
Sundinftw
Registered User
 
Sundinftw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,887
vCash: 500
Dion

Sundinftw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-18-2012, 09:17 PM
  #81
nuck
Axis of Evil
 
nuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Country: Greenland
Posts: 5,160
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdawg1234 View Post
Agreed on Jake but your Rielly numbers are a bit deceiving. He had a decent year at 15-16 and then an amazing start and finish to his 17 year old draft year. 18 points in 18 games and PPG in the playoffs. Also PPG at the most recent exhibition between Can/Russia.

There's no reason to look at his 15 year old numbers when his 17 year old numbers have him much closer to his potential. He'll only get better IMO.

I expect him to be near PPG in the DUB this season.
The thing with Rielly is the sample is so small. With a "streak" of 18 points in 18 games he could have finished the year with less than 60 points or more than 80. Bourque and Doughty had 200 Junior games under their respective belts so they were pretty much known quantities(although 3 clubs still thought there were better D available Bourque's draft year). I watched Rielly against the Oil Kings and he didn't do a lot. You could see a bit of the skating but pretty rusty.

Don't get me wrong I am a big Rielly fan. I said before the draft he could be a home run for somebody. I just don't think you can anoint any Junior as a sure fire NHLer.
The abrieviated resume is part of what makes him intriguing. If he had played 70 games and scored 80 points he would have gone top three. I don't know if he will do that this year, but if he doesn't reinjure I also expect a point a game out of him. It will be interesting to see how his goal scoring developes.

nuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-18-2012, 10:58 PM
  #82
zeke
#freewilly
 
zeke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 30,648
vCash: 500
Phaneuf is so crazy underrated.

He was top-12 this year in defenseman Goals (6th), Points (12th), Hits (7th), Ice Time (10th), and Quality of Competition (10th). The only other dmen to accomplish anything close to that were Weber and Chara.....but of course Weber and Chara got to play in front of superelite goales Rinne and Thomas, not Gustavsson.

So nuts how much he's hated.

zeke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-18-2012, 11:10 PM
  #83
Hurt
Moderator
 
Hurt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,705
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcphllp View Post
if gardiner and rielly come close to being as good as phaneuf then the leafs will have the best blueline in the league
Exactly. Dion is no slouch by any means. Norris candidates, hard hitting D-men who put up points aren't exactly growing on trees.

__________________
Shoot me a PM with your concerns. Also, come visit us in the Science Forum!
Hurt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-19-2012, 12:37 AM
  #84
GhettoHockey
Registered User
 
GhettoHockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 131
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by iPunch View Post
Phaneuf will be a better player when his d partner is closer to his skill level. He needs to be a scoring option, not a quasi distrubuter. McCabe wouldn't have been as effective without Kaberle in his prime. We essentially have a McCabe without a Kaberle. Rielly looks like he could be that guy.

Let's remember a McCabe type (McCabe himself) brought us to the semi finals.
Good point, Rielly will surely bring more out of Dion and it will be similar to Kaberle/McCabe..... but you still make my point for me!! If we want to win the cup we dont want a Brian McCabe in Dion..

My hockey sense is telling me that Dion isn't a player that can play well in a hockey system ---he is a statistical presence on Defense thats why hes overhyped... he gets beat to the outside and he plays soft agaisnt top tier talent and doesn't clean up the 'garbage' like a responsible #1 D.

That doesn't mean that I think Dion is a bad defender but relative to the class hes mentioned with I have to rate him at the bottom end and it forces me to say hes not all that


Last edited by GhettoHockey: 08-19-2012 at 12:49 AM.
GhettoHockey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-19-2012, 10:16 AM
  #85
Christ
Registered User
 
Christ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,979
vCash: 500
I understand comparing Gardiner vs. Rielly as they are similar defensemen, Percy and Finn would also be a good compairison but Phaneuf is a different species of defenseman from the lot of them. Phaneuf's style is more akin to a prospect like Dumba.

Between Reilly and Gardiner I would have to go with Reilly.

Christ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-19-2012, 10:56 AM
  #86
DirtyDion03
**** Brooklyn
 
DirtyDion03's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 21,017
vCash: 500
If Gardiner and Rielly both become better then Dion.. this team will be going somewhere..

__________________
http://i57.tinypic.com/28b4abo.jpg
DirtyDion03 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-19-2012, 11:05 AM
  #87
GreekLeafer
Registered User
 
GreekLeafer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 303
vCash: 500
I think the dream would be for Rielly and Phaneuf to be a pairing starting in 2013 maybe. At least that's my dream.

GreekLeafer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-19-2012, 11:57 AM
  #88
ULF_55
Global Moderator
 
ULF_55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Mountain Standard Ti
Posts: 58,641
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreekLeafer View Post
I think the dream would be for Rielly and Phaneuf to be a pairing starting in 2013 maybe. At least that's my dream.
My dream would be that Phaneuf is on the 2nd. pairing.

Unlikely, but dreams, even based on reality, should be a reach.

ULF_55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-19-2012, 12:05 PM
  #89
mooseOAK*
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 42,437
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
My dream would be that Phaneuf is on the 2nd. pairing.

Unlikely, but dreams, even based on reality, should be a reach.
There isn't a team in the league that would play Phaneuf less than 20 minutes a game.

mooseOAK* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-19-2012, 12:07 PM
  #90
ULF_55
Global Moderator
 
ULF_55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Mountain Standard Ti
Posts: 58,641
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mooseOAK View Post
There isn't a team in the league that would play Phaneuf less than 20 minutes a game.
Unless he was their 3rd. best defender.

Even then he could still get 20 minutes.

ULF_55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-19-2012, 12:11 PM
  #91
Faltorvo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 13,467
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Christ View Post
I understand comparing Gardiner vs. Rielly as they are similar defensemen, Percy and Finn would also be a good compairison but Phaneuf is a different species of defenseman from the lot of them. Phaneuf's style is more akin to a prospect like Dumba.

Between Reilly and Gardiner I would have to go with Reilly.
Dion=McCabe

Faltorvo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-19-2012, 12:13 PM
  #92
Faltorvo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 13,467
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
My dream would be that Phaneuf is on the 2nd. pairing.

Unlikely, but dreams, even based on reality, should be a reach.
I'd be ok with Dion on the first pairing if on the other side was Suter.

Faltorvo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-19-2012, 12:17 PM
  #93
TieClark
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 4,115
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Faltorvo View Post
Dion=McCabe
McCabe was a very good defenceman

TieClark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-19-2012, 12:22 PM
  #94
mooseOAK*
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 42,437
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
Unless he was their 3rd. best defender.

Even then he could still get 20 minutes.
No team in the league is going to have two defenders better than Phaneuf.

mooseOAK* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-19-2012, 12:30 PM
  #95
zeke
#freewilly
 
zeke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 30,648
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Faltorvo View Post
Dion=McCabe
Dion is much better than McCabe.....and McCabe was very good.

zeke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-19-2012, 12:34 PM
  #96
LeafsRReady
Registered User
 
LeafsRReady's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 286
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Faltorvo View Post
Dion=McCabe
Not sure if you mean in overall ability or style of play. While McCabe tried to play with a physical presence, IMO he didn't hit anywhere near as hard as Dion and as well as McCabe played at times for the Leafs, I'm also of the view that Phaneuf is overall the better player.

LeafsRReady is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-19-2012, 02:00 PM
  #97
Pi
Registered User
 
Pi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 29,427
vCash: 50
Dion Phaneuf/Rielly
Gardiner

Gardiner has the potential to be a top pairing D. At worse he's a #3 PPQB with elite offensive skills.

Phaneuf is already a #1D and he's proven he can play 30 mins despite being paired with different defenseman.

Rielly, Gardiner, Percy, Blacker have potential to be a pairing with Phaneuf for long periods of time if Gunnarsson isn't as good as he was last year. If he is...then problem solved. Gunnar is a solid defenseman.

He's been paired with Beauchemin, Komisarek, Gunnarsson and Aulie for long periods of time. Only Gunnarsson has been great for more than 40 games.

Rielly has elite offensive potential and above average D. Kris Letang is a perfect comparison if all goes well.

Pi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-19-2012, 02:04 PM
  #98
Pi
Registered User
 
Pi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 29,427
vCash: 50
I can understand that Leaf fans vent their frustration of not making the playoffs on Phaneuf.

You don't think the Flyers would love to get a guy like Phaneuf right about now for the price we gave up?

Half the league would be contacting Burke if Phaneuf was on the block. The hate for him is really stupid.

We've got ourselves a defenseman that can play 30 minutes a game, put up 45-55 points and people say he's a pylon..

Pi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-19-2012, 02:12 PM
  #99
ULF_55
Global Moderator
 
ULF_55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Mountain Standard Ti
Posts: 58,641
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pi View Post
I can understand that Leaf fans vent their frustration of not making the playoffs on Phaneuf.

You don't think the Flyers would love to get a guy like Phaneuf right about now for the price we gave up?

Half the league would be contacting Burke if Phaneuf was on the block. The hate for him is really stupid.

We've got ourselves a defenseman that can play 30 minutes a game, put up 45-55 points and people say he's a pylon..
Why do so many people resort to the "hate" statement if someone doesn't love one of your favorite players?

It is used far to often, far too easily, and is a cop-out.

I don't mean this to be an attack, we actually have a link to this problem.
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1065585

It isn't like Phaneuf is universally loved everywhere.


Last edited by ULF_55: 08-19-2012 at 02:18 PM.
ULF_55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-19-2012, 02:20 PM
  #100
Pi
Registered User
 
Pi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 29,427
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
Why do so many people resort to the "hate" statement if someone doesn't love one of your favorite players?

It is used far to often, far too easily, and is a cop-out.

I don't mean this to be an attacked, we actually have a link to this problem.
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1065585

It isn't like Phaneuf is universally loved everywhere.
Phaneuf is hardly my favorite player on the team but all I see is people trashing Phaneuf when we don't make the playoffs.

The 3 all stars we had last season were the reason we were in contention to make the playoffs despite getting terrible goaltending, defense as a whole, and inconsistent offense.

If Phaneuf was on the market right now, there would be sweepstakes to get him. That's fact.

I don't see what Phaneuf did wrong last year? Him and Gunnarsson were our most dependable pair and when they played good we won.

Gardiner was our 3rd best defenseman in his rookie year. That's sad.

The defense didn't hold up and we didn't make the playoffs because of it.

Pi is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:30 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.