Impossible to say who ends up better. Right now it's Phaneuf and it's not really close IMO. Gardiner has looked/been very promising so far and Rielly looks to be even more promising.
That's an excellent problem to have. We're headed in the right direction and that's all that matters.
Sorry, how do you rate players if not by prime? Career? Are you saying that Rielly's prime will be higher, yet somehow when you project the rest of Dion's career versus the hypothetical career of Rielly it comes out far ahead? You're being ridiculous in saying they're "completely different"...
And severe exaggeration?...
Guess what, if you go back and look at any player whose prime was above the Dion Phaneuf of 2008 they're likely either HHOF players or they're very, very, very good..
Hilarious. I said that posters calling Rielly a better player now rather then guessing who would be a better player in his prime are two completely different subject matters. I'm not sure whats so hard about figuring that out.
You're not even on point about what we're talking about.
Potential can be over rated around these boards. If Rielly puts up 40-50 pts a year, and eats top minutes I'd be very happy. However, he has a better chance of being the next Coliacovo as he does being the next Karlsson.
Phaneuf was hyped much more than Rielly, and Rielly in my opinion is over hyped. How did Schenn and Kadri turn out. Yes they will be good NHLers, but I dont see either of those two being top players at their respective positions. Like it or not, Phaneuf is a top player at his position (Top 30 easily).
I really like Rielly, but as of right now he is just a prospect.
Potential can be over rated around these boards. If Rielly puts up 40-50 pts a year, and eats top minutes I'd be very happy. However, he has a better chance of being the next Coliacovo as he does being the next Karlsson.
Phaneuf was hyped much more than Rielly, and Rielly in my opinion is over hyped. How did Schenn and Kadri turn out. Yes they will be good NHLers, but I dont see either of those two being top players at their respective positions. Like it or not, Phaneuf is a top player at his position (Top 30 easily).
I really like Rielly, but as of right now he is just a prospect.
Are we basing this on all around game or just offense? If it's the former, not a chance. If it's the latter, solid argument can be made.
Are we basing this on all around game or just offense? If it's the former, not a chance. If it's the latter, solid argument can be made.
Pretty hard (IMO impossible)to name 30 guys better than Phaneuf right now
If the 2 youngins reach Dions caliber, and we can keep our forward core together, we can compete. Im not stoned enough to try and predict the future right now.
I don't think either Reilly or Gardiner will be as good as Phaneuf at hitting, minute eating, or defence, and they may also have a hard time passing him offensively. Phaneuf is severely under rated I think. I don't understand how a player who is always bashed is "over rated" as everyone seems to say.
I see Reilly and Gardiner both developing into Likes type players.
Dion phaneuf's defensive game is pretty bad. I like everything else he brings, but if we are going to talk about all around defensemen, he doesn't register that high. You're free to disagree of course, but this is how I see it
I don't even personally feel like I'm hating on him tbh. I feel he leaves a lot to be desired in his own end, but I do recognize where he does excel. Offense and physical player (not so much fighting, but big hits)
My comparisons were based on current prospects but yes McCabe is definetly another player who comes to mind when thinking of a good comparison for Phaneuf. Very similar approaches to their games. Both are big hitters, offensive minded, goal scorers and competative as hell...not to mention that they are both almost criminally underrated and unappreciated by many of their fanbase.
I will say there is no way Phaneuf deserves all of the hate he gets.
Agreed. What I don't get is where the hate originates as it is irrational in nature. Is it just his contract? His looks? Does he remind some of us of a bully who picked on us at school?
The expectations placed on this guy's shoulders are impossible for a mere human to manage. Not Chara, nor Pronger, nor Weber can be perfect all the time, yet somehow Dion needs to be or we will have crazy fans calling him out on it. I don't know any other fanbase that is so hard on their star defensemen as Leaf fans...we did it to Murphy, then McCabe and now Phaneuf.
Agreed. What I don't get is where the hate originates as it is irrational in nature. Is it just his contract? His looks? Does he remind some of us of a bully who picked on us at school?
The expectations placed on this guy's shoulders are impossible for a mere human to manage. Not Chara, nor Pronger, nor Weber can be perfect all the time, yet somehow Dion needs to be or we will have crazy fans calling him out on it. I don't know any other fanbase that is so hard on their star defensemen as Leaf fans...we did it to Murphy, then McCabe and now Phaneuf.
I don't even personally feel like I'm hating on him tbh. I feel he leaves a lot to be desired in his own end, but I do recognize where he does excel. Offense and physical player (not so much fighting, but big hits)
Hating, no. Severely under rating, yes. Happens all the time here.
My comparisons were based on current prospects but yes McCabe is definetly another player who comes to mind when thinking of a good comparison for Phaneuf. Very similar approaches to their games. Both are big hitters, offensive minded, goal scorers and competative as hell...not to mention that they are both almost criminally underrated and unappreciated by many of their fanbase.
McCabe was an incredible defenseman for this team. I remember the day he got traded. I went out and got my first ever custom non leaf jersey. Disgraceful what we did to that guy.
McCabe was an incredible defenseman for this team. I remember the day he got traded. I went out and got my first ever custom non leaf jersey. Disgraceful what we did to that guy.
Yup, paid to get rid of him, only to replace him with Finger and MVR.
Except management. Never read so many posts giving the GM a free pass as I have around this place. And what have the GM done so far that is worthy of such protection? Absolutely nothing.
A lot of tough minutes last year, very little support, shouldered the leadership void on the Leafs. Puts up 12 goals 32 assists. Dion is doing fine, he is one of the better Defencemen in the NHL, only Bill Watters in the media seems to have a problem with him. Not sure Lidstrom would have done more with the Leafs last year, a player that cannot do no wrong on hockey forums.
Dion will be better once he gets some support, when the next best defenceman on the team should be Komi, and was closer to Gardiner and or Gunnar. This team would be even more terrible without his contributions. He's not perfect, but more times than not, he is a positive on this team. Not sure why he gets so much heat here.
Life being a Leafs fan.
Last edited by Hurt: 08-21-2012 at 08:30 AM.
Reason: Don't try to hijack the thread.
Except management. Never read so many posts giving the GM a free pass as I have around this place. And what have the GM done so far that is worthy of such protection? Absolutely nothing.
A lot of tough minutes last year, very little support, shouldered the leadership void on the Leafs. Puts up 12 goals 32 assists. Dion is doing fine, he is one of the better Defencemen in the NHL, only Bill Watters in the media seems to have a problem with him. Not sure Lidstrom would have done more with the Leafs last year, a player that cannot do no wrong on hockey forums.
Dion will be better once he gets some support, when the next best defenceman on the team should be Komi, and was closer to Gardiner and or Gunnar. This team would be even more terrible without his contributions. He's not perfect, but more times than not, he is a positive on this team. Not sure why he gets so much heat here.
Life being a Leafs fan.
Dion should never have been name captain....as he totally lacks leadership. We would be a better team without him as we would then have an opportunity to become a team....currently we are not.
I like Gardiner, but he has a TON to prove in terms of having any kind of strong ability to shut down the oppositions best players. He was predominently used against secondary players from other teams last year. Granted it was his rookie season, and he did greatly exceed expectations, I just still want to see more from him defensively before I say he's gonna be better than Phaneuf (not that I consider Phaneuf to be particularly strong defensively compared to the better top pairing D in the league).
