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08-28-2012, 05:19 PM
  #376
McLovin25
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Originally Posted by FeedingFrenzy View Post
New topic of discussion- Demers/Gunnarsson swap

I am torn on this. Leaning towards yes because we need a good, young LHD. With Vlasic/Burns locked in place, Gunn/Boyle & Stuart/Braun. Gunn's toi was almost 21 min and he had decent numbers(76gm-4g-15a-20pms, -9)on an offensively/goalie challenged team. Paired with Boyle his numbers improve abit(6g-25a-+8 ). I like the idea of Stuey with Braun.Justin gets a vet to mentor him and allows him to push the play knowing Stuart is back there. When Boyle retires, Braun takes over the spot. Flame away
id prefer it to be braun moving, even if we have to add a bit

even if it's demers, i still feel we add, but it does help the gapping hole on the left side in terms of puck moving.

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08-28-2012, 05:41 PM
  #377
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FeedingFrenzy View Post
New topic of discussion- Demers/Gunnarsson swap

I am torn on this. Leaning towards yes because we need a good, young LHD. With Vlasic/Burns locked in place, Gunn/Boyle & Stuart/Braun. Gunn's toi was almost 21 min and he had decent numbers(76gm-4g-15a-20pms, -9)on an offensively/goalie challenged team. Paired with Boyle his numbers improve abit(6g-25a-+8 ). I like the idea of Stuey with Braun.Justin gets a vet to mentor him and allows him to push the play knowing Stuart is back there. When Boyle retires, Braun takes over the spot. Flame away
Boyle has at best 2 years left with the org in my opinion. Depending on how this season (if there is one) goes, I would not be surprised to see him traded.

And while Braun looked good last year, he simply does not have the offensive upside that Demers does. If you want to maintain a high-mobility offensive presence on the Sharks D, Demers is the guy you hold onto. If Irwin or someone similar can come along make Demers expendable, that's fine. But I don't see Braun as that guy right now.

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08-28-2012, 08:20 PM
  #378
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Originally Posted by Vaasa View Post
Boyle has at best 2 years left with the org in my opinion. Depending on how this season (if there is one) goes, I would not be surprised to see him traded.

And while Braun looked good last year, he simply does not have the offensive upside that Demers does. If you want to maintain a high-mobility offensive presence on the Sharks D, Demers is the guy you hold onto. If Irwin or someone similar can come along make Demers expendable, that's fine. But I don't see Braun as that guy right now.
I think Demers's down season combined with Braun's okay season made us overvalue Braun... which is surprising because I thought his play in the IIHF this year would have brought him back down to earth a bit. He was by far the worst Dman on team USA. I'm not saying he's a bust, or won't be a great dman, but I'm saying he is IMHO a little overrated here.

Demers has shown he has the ability to play as a top 4 dman. Braun hasn't.

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08-28-2012, 11:14 PM
  #379
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Originally Posted by FeedingFrenzy View Post
New topic of discussion- Demers/Gunnarsson swap

I am torn on this. Leaning towards yes because we need a good, young LHD. With Vlasic/Burns locked in place, Gunn/Boyle & Stuart/Braun. Gunn's toi was almost 21 min and he had decent numbers(76gm-4g-15a-20pms, -9)on an offensively/goalie challenged team. Paired with Boyle his numbers improve abit(6g-25a-+8 ). I like the idea of Stuey with Braun.Justin gets a vet to mentor him and allows him to push the play knowing Stuart is back there. When Boyle retires, Braun takes over the spot. Flame away
At this point, you don't trade for Gunnarsson unless you have a deal in place to move Douglas Murray. Swapping Demers for Gunnarsson isn't bad in value but it's not the ideal move. If you're planning for post-Boyle, it should involve both Braun and Demers.

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08-28-2012, 11:31 PM
  #380
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Originally Posted by Vaasa View Post
Boyle has at best 2 years left with the org in my opinion. Depending on how this season (if there is one) goes, I would not be surprised to see him traded.

And while Braun looked good last year, he simply does not have the offensive upside that Demers does. If you want to maintain a high-mobility offensive presence on the Sharks D, Demers is the guy you hold onto. If Irwin or someone similar can come along make Demers expendable, that's fine. But I don't see Braun as that guy right now.
Based on a very, very small sample size dont you think? Demers now has 3years in the league, Braun alittle over a year. Braun will be much better imo in the same timespan.Who was paired with Braun last year and what opportunities was he given to produce offensively?? #5/6 pairing minutes?? Meaning, he is skating with our inept 3 & 4 lines and is going to produce?? Cmon,you cant go that route.We all noticed how Demers game stepped up when paired with Vlasic and given more minutes. Who is to say Braun cant do the same? DW just locked him up for 3 more years so there is something to this kid the Sharks like. He is 6'2 205 and still maturing into his 25yr old body.Skates very well,fast,good vision, hard shot,gaining a mean side,just needs MORE experience. With Stuey as his D-partner he could do this.


Last edited by FeedingFrenzy: 08-28-2012 at 11:41 PM. Reason: adding stats
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08-28-2012, 11:42 PM
  #381
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Originally Posted by FeedingFrenzy View Post
Based on a very, very small sample size dont you think? Demers now has 3years in the league, Braun alittle over a year. Braun will be much better imo in the same timespan.Who was paired with Braun last year and what opportunities was he given to produce offensively?? #5/6 pairing minutes?? Meaning, he is skating with our inept 3 & 4 lines and is going to produce?? Cmon,you cant go that route.We all noticed how Demers game stepped up when paired with Vlasic and given more minutes. Who is to say Braun cant do the same? DW just locked him up for 3 more years so there is something to this kid the Sharks like. He is 6'2 205 and still maturing into his 25yr old body.Skates very well,fast,good vision, hard shot,gaining a mean side,just needs MORE experience. With Stuey as his D-partner he could do this.
And Demers is 24 yet you're willing to move him out the door. And it's not like Demers three years were full years. There was one full and two little over half years where he was jimmy-jacked in and out of the lineup. The same standard for Braun in terms of linemates applies to Demers who still outscored him in less games. They both need more experience and are both needed for the future.

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08-29-2012, 12:36 AM
  #382
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Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
And Demers is 24 yet you're willing to move him out the door. And it's not like Demers three years were full years. There was one full and two little over half years where he was jimmy-jacked in and out of the lineup. The same standard for Braun in terms of linemates applies to Demers who still outscored him in less games. They both need more experience and are both needed for the future.
Willing to move him for a potential #3/4 LHD which this team lacks.. You act like I am giving him away. Do you think this team would be worse off with a Gunn/Demers swap? both now and in the future? It makes the Sharks stronger now because Gunnarsson fits a need. As it stands we have too many RHD. So who suffers? Braun or Demers because one of them is forced to play a position he doesnt normally play?
Gunnarsson has 11g,54 assist in 187g so you are not losing any production by trading Demers AND we get that LHD that we need. Even though Braun is a year older than Demers ,Justin has 200 + less games played.Less wear and tear,3 seasons worth by my estimations. I trade Demers long before I trade Justin.


Last edited by FeedingFrenzy: 08-29-2012 at 12:39 AM. Reason: fix
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08-29-2012, 01:17 AM
  #383
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Originally Posted by FeedingFrenzy View Post
Willing to move him for a potential #3/4 LHD which this team lacks.. You act like I am giving him away. Do you think this team would be worse off with a Gunn/Demers swap? both now and in the future? It makes the Sharks stronger now because Gunnarsson fits a need. As it stands we have too many RHD. So who suffers? Braun or Demers because one of them is forced to play a position he doesnt normally play?
Gunnarsson has 11g,54 assist in 187g so you are not losing any production by trading Demers AND we get that LHD that we need. Even though Braun is a year older than Demers ,Justin has 200 + less games played.Less wear and tear,3 seasons worth by my estimations. I trade Demers long before I trade Justin.
Not trying to be nit picky but "less wear and tear?" They are rookies FFS!

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08-29-2012, 01:17 AM
  #384
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Originally Posted by FeedingFrenzy View Post
Willing to move him for a potential #3/4 LHD which this team lacks.. You act like I am giving him away. Do you think this team would be worse off with a Gunn/Demers swap? both now and in the future? It makes the Sharks stronger now because Gunnarsson fits a need. As it stands we have too many RHD. So who suffers? Braun or Demers because one of them is forced to play a position he doesnt normally play?
Gunnarsson has 11g,54 assist in 187g so you are not losing any production by trading Demers AND we get that LHD that we need. Even though Braun is a year older than Demers ,Justin has 200 + less games played.Less wear and tear,3 seasons worth by my estimations. I trade Demers long before I trade Justin.
Demers' best season was way better than Braun's best year. Braun is overrated by many Sharks fans. Demers was forced to play with the black hole that is Colin White. I'd trade Braun over Demers every time.

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08-29-2012, 01:25 AM
  #385
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Originally Posted by Hatrick Marleau View Post
Demers was forced to play with the black hole that is Colin White.
I prefer Demers too, but it's not like Braun didn't play with Colin White. They both had to deal with him last season. Braun just adjusted better (as White's partner, and as a LD).
I like Demers' skill-set more (more agile and throws the big hits), but Braun seems like the harder worker, at least in my opinion. Demers reminds me of Setoguchi as a defenseman.

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08-29-2012, 01:29 AM
  #386
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I think they are both overrated at this point.

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08-29-2012, 01:42 AM
  #387
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Originally Posted by Hatrick Marleau View Post
Demers' best season was way better than Braun's best year. Braun is overrated by many Sharks fans. Demers was forced to play with the black hole that is Colin White. I'd trade Braun over Demers every time.
Braun had a 28 game stint and a 66. Demers 51,75,57..Go compare apples to oranges while your at it...Got any winning trade proposals involving Pavelski for us?

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08-29-2012, 01:53 AM
  #388
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I prefer Demers too, but it's not like Braun didn't play with Colin White. They both had to deal with him last season. Braun just adjusted better (as White's partner, and as a LD).
I like Demers' skill-set more (more agile and throws the big hits), but Braun seems like the harder worker, at least in my opinion. Demers reminds me of Setoguchi as a defenseman.
Demers has twice as many NHL games under his belt so in theory he should be better off..Braun has all the tools and then some.Heck, Demers spent 2 full season at the AHL level compared to Brauns measly 43games.

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08-29-2012, 02:02 AM
  #389
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Originally Posted by FeedingFrenzy View Post
Braun had a 28 game stint and a 66. Demers 51,75,57..Go compare apples to oranges while your at it...Got any winning trade proposals involving Pavelski for us?
I don't know why you are throwing out their games played. Braun has shown me nothing that says he is better than Demers right now or will ever be better than Demers.

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08-29-2012, 02:09 AM
  #390
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I think they are both overrated at this point.
Pretty much. #5s until they prove otherwise.

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08-29-2012, 02:15 AM
  #391
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Originally Posted by FeedingFrenzy View Post
Demers has twice as many NHL games under his belt so in theory he should be better off..Braun has all the tools and then some.Heck, Demers spent 2 full season at the AHL level compared to Brauns measly 43games.
Games played don't matter. This is like saying Pavelski is better than Eberle because Pavelski has played more games. Braun has good skating ability, a good shot, and size. He doesn't use his size very well. I don't see him hit. Demers earned his way onto the team at out of training camp. Braun was called up because of injuries and has shown that he is better than Murray. I don't see him being any better than a #4/5 dman. Vlasic is put on the Powerplay ahead of Braun. That shows you what they think of Braun's offensive ability. Braun was drafted as a defensive defenseman so I don't see him becoming much of an offensive force. Demers is good offensively and average defensively. I see Demers becoming a solid #3 dman,

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08-29-2012, 02:18 AM
  #392
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Originally Posted by Hatrick Marleau View Post
Games played don't matter. This is like saying Pavelski is better than Eberle because Pavelski has played more games.
But Pavelski is better than Eberle right now...

EDIT:
Sorry I was too surprised by your first sentence to read the others.

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Vlasic is put on the Powerplay ahead of Braun. That shows you what they think of Braun's offensive ability. Braun was drafted as a defensive defenseman so I don't see him becoming much of an offensive force.
Uh...Braun had more PP time than Vlasic last season. Seriously, these stats aren't that hard to look up.
And Demers was drafted as a defensive defenseman as well. He said he went into training camp as a DFD until he saw Boyle play.

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08-29-2012, 02:19 AM
  #393
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Pretty much. #5s until they prove otherwise.
Yep. They are going to playing bottom pair anyway. My guess is that they are going to battling to play with Murray on the bottom pair. If they won't sit Handzus and his 2.5mil cap hit, they won't bench Murray and his 2.1mil cap hit.

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08-29-2012, 02:21 AM
  #394
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But Pavelski is better than Eberle right now...
I don't think so. Eberle scored 76pts last year and was a +4 on the Oilers last year.

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08-29-2012, 02:24 AM
  #395
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I don't think so. Eberle scored 76pts last year and was a +4 on the Oilers last year.
Playing extremely sheltered minutes whereas Pavelski played against top competition night in and night out. Lupul had a better PPG than Marleau, I guess he's better?

And Braun didn't only prove that he was better than Murray. At least last season, he showed that he was better than Demers (the coaches put him in the line-up more). They also moved him to LD because he adapted better than Demers did.

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08-29-2012, 02:36 AM
  #396
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Playing extremely sheltered minutes whereas Pavelski played against top competition night in and night out. Lupul had a better PPG than Marleau, I guess he's better?

And Braun didn't only prove that he was better than Murray. At least last season, he showed that he was better than Demers (the coaches put him in the line-up more). They also moved him to LD because he adapted better than Demers did.
Eberle put up close to a PPG in his second season and was a +4 on the 2nd worse team in the league. How would Pavelski do in that situation? Lupul isn't better than Marleau for 3 reasons. Lupul is a career -52, he is injury prone, and he has never had a scoring pace like last year's before. Last season was an outlier.

Demers played bad with White in the beginning of the season and got benched for it. When they took him off a pairing with White, he played better. I don't think Braun was better once Demers was away from White.

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08-29-2012, 02:44 AM
  #397
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Originally Posted by Hatrick Marleau View Post
Eberle put up close to a PPG in his second season and was a +4 on the 2nd worse team in the league. How would Pavelski do in that situation?
If he didn't go against the top lines and started 60+% of his shifts in the offensive zone? Probably PPG too. Eberle definitely has a ton of potential, but right now, he's not better than Pavelski. Pavelski is a 60+ two-way forward. Eberle, while a PPG player, is very sheltered.
I agree with your Lupul outlier, but let me get this straight, Lupul's season doesn't count because he only did it once. Yet Eberle's season counts in your mind, despite only doing it once, and having an extremely high shooting percentage that will probably regress next season? And +/- is a horrible indicator.

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Originally Posted by Hatrick Marleau View Post
Demers played bad with White in the beginning of the season and got benched for it. When they took him off a pairing with White, he played better. I don't think Braun was better once Demers was away from White.
Braun played with White last season too...

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08-29-2012, 08:13 AM
  #398
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Originally Posted by FeedingFrenzy View Post
Willing to move him for a potential #3/4 LHD which this team lacks.. You act like I am giving him away. Do you think this team would be worse off with a Gunn/Demers swap? both now and in the future? It makes the Sharks stronger now because Gunnarsson fits a need. As it stands we have too many RHD. So who suffers? Braun or Demers because one of them is forced to play a position he doesnt normally play?
Gunnarsson has 11g,54 assist in 187g so you are not losing any production by trading Demers AND we get that LHD that we need. Even though Braun is a year older than Demers ,Justin has 200 + less games played.Less wear and tear,3 seasons worth by my estimations. I trade Demers long before I trade Justin.
I'm not acting like you're giving him away. I'm saying that it's odd that you have no problems making Demers trade bait but aren't willing to do the same for Braun. I'd rather have one of them suffer, as you put it, playing out of position yet gaining experience as opposed to trading them when they don't have to. Because who replaces that spot in the lineup when Boyle is gone after you've traded Demers? You go from having too many to not having enough. Your whole games played thing is accounting for all the games prior to their NHL careers which is sort of silly to me. Either way, I'll take the guy that is younger and has more NHL experience and greater potential in my eyes if I have to and that's Demers. However, they shouldn't trade either of them and if they have to 'suffer' by making one play the other side of a third pairing, well that's okay by me.

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08-29-2012, 10:08 AM
  #399
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If he didn't go against the top lines and started 60+% of his shifts in the offensive zone? Probably PPG too. Eberle definitely has a ton of potential, but right now, he's not better than Pavelski. Pavelski is a 60+ two-way forward. Eberle, while a PPG player, is very sheltered.
I agree with your Lupul outlier, but let me get this straight, Lupul's season doesn't count because he only did it once. Yet Eberle's season counts in your mind, despite only doing it once, and having an extremely high shooting percentage that will probably regress next season? And +/- is a horrible indicator.



Braun played with White last season too...
There is no way I see Pavelski being close to a PPG on the Oilers, even in sheltered minutes.

The reason Lupul's doesn't count is because he is 28. I don't expect a 28 year old who has never produced at that pace to be putting up over a PPG season. Eberle is 22 and put up 76pts in 78 games. I expect him to do that again and get better.

Braun did better than Demers with White. Part of that had to do with White getting used to the system. Either way I'd prefer to keep them both and I would trade Braun before I'd trade Demers.

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08-29-2012, 10:33 AM
  #400
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Originally Posted by Hatrick Marleau View Post
I expect him to do that again and get better.
So do you think he will sustain a ~20% shooting percentage with ~13% on-ice shooting percentage or will he (and his linemates) shoot A LOT more?

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