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Old
08-17-2012, 11:32 AM
  #51
Vankiller Whale
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
Kadri becomes our top prospect, and could center the 3rd line. Ashton is right up there with Jensen/Gaunce/Schroeder as far as upside goes.



But then doesn't that just create a Ballard 2.0 on our 3rd pairing?


1)- Ashton is a third liner at best. Schroeder/Gaunce/Jensesn all have top-6 potential.

2)- Not if we roll all our defense equally to minimize wear and tear and put Garison on the 1st PP unit.

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Old
08-17-2012, 11:33 AM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
Clowe has averaged 58 points a season these last 4 years.

Burrows has averaged 57 points a season these last 4 years.
Yes...

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Old
08-17-2012, 11:35 AM
  #53
Crazy Joe Divola
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
You improve in goaltending and offense and downgrade in defense. The addition of Stuart will likely ease Boyle's loss, plus San Jose's window of contention will likely stay open longer.
Replacing Boyle and Clowe with Kadri and Hansen does NOT improve the offense...

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Old
08-17-2012, 11:36 AM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
Clowe has averaged 58 points a season these last 4 years.

Burrows has averaged 57 points a season these last 4 years.
He said he was slow and dumb, not bad at scoring.

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Old
08-17-2012, 11:37 AM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
1)- Ashton is a third liner at best. Schroeder/Gaunce/Jensesn all have top-6 potential.

2)- Not if we roll all our defense equally to minimize wear and tear and put Garison on the 1st PP unit.
I think Ashton has just as good of a chance at being a top-6 guy as any of those players (or more of a Chris Higgins).

Regardless, Ashton would be in the mix with out top prospects and add to our very weak pool.


- Thats also a big IF. We already know Hamhuis and Bieksa get all the defensive assignments, and Edlers pairing gets all the offensive tasks.

The third pairing really just soaks up whats left... seems like a waste to sign Jason Garrison to a 6 year deal when you plan to use him as a 3rd pairing guy...

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Old
08-17-2012, 11:38 AM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kegsey View Post
He said he was slow and dumb, not bad at scoring.
He said he was an average top-6 guy, so by those standards isn't Burrows an average top-6 guy?

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Old
08-17-2012, 11:40 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Luongo = Boyle + Clowe
(elite middle aged player for elite older player + average middle aged player, plus goalies usually have a longer shelf life)

Niemi = Kadri
Hansen = 1st
No.

The only one of those I agree with is Hansen worth a late first.

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Old
08-17-2012, 11:40 AM
  #58
Vankiller Whale
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
He said he was an average top-6 guy, so by those standards isn't Burrows an average top-6 guy?
Yes. Altough Burrows is clutch and draws penalties and is a fan favourite, but on paper he's an average top-6er.

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Old
08-17-2012, 11:40 AM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Luongo = Boyle + Clowe
(elite middle aged player for elite older player + average middle aged player, plus goalies usually have a longer shelf life)

Niemi = Kadri
Hansen = 1st

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Old
08-17-2012, 11:42 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Hold the Pickles View Post
ZERO chance DW takes on Lu's contract. Less than zero chance he takes it on at that price.
DW is gonna be jobless pretty soon. Doesn't it worry any of you Sharks fans that you guys haven't even been to a Final with that roster. My god by now I would have expected SJ to have won at least 2 cups

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Old
08-17-2012, 11:42 AM
  #61
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Clowe has pretty good hockey IQ actually, for a 2nd liner. Not Joe Thornton like or anything, but I certainly wouldn't say his hockey IQ is low, above average at least. He is however slow.

Again, Luongo's contract, to the Sharks, makes his value zero (or negative) because Doug Wilson is an outspoken opponent of exactly that kind of deal (and has used Luongo's deal as an example of the kinds of deals they won't sign in the past). There are teams that would give up some value for Luongo, but it is not the Sharks.

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Old
08-17-2012, 11:42 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Figz14 View Post
Did you read the explanation right after?

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Old
08-17-2012, 11:48 AM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodbyeLuongo View Post
DW is gonna be jobless pretty soon. Doesn't it worry any of you Sharks fans that you guys haven't even been to a Final with that roster. My god by now I would have expected SJ to have won at least 2 cups
You guys lost in game 7 of the finals, partially because your goalie was unable to get the job done and got soundly outplayed by Thomas. Are you really trying to claim Luongo is going to help us win a cup? I think that's a pretty crazy argument.

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Old
08-17-2012, 11:52 AM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
You guys lost in game 7 of the finals, partially because your goalie was unable to get the job done and got soundly outplayed by Thomas. Are you really trying to claim Luongo is going to help us win a cup? I think that's a pretty crazy argument.
Thats an awful big can o' worms your opening up...

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Old
08-17-2012, 11:53 AM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
Thats an awful big can o' worms your opening up...
Wasn't me who opened it, I just responded to someone trying to claim that Luongo is the answer to our playoff woe's, something I find highly hypocritical based on the blame the Vancouver media and fans seem to heap on him.

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Old
08-17-2012, 11:55 AM
  #66
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Does anyone actually pay attention to how good Dan Boyle really is? Ridiculous.

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Old
08-17-2012, 11:58 AM
  #67
Vankiller Whale
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I have to say though, Sharks fans saying Luongo has zero value to their team because of his contract is similar to saying Ovechkin has zero value to Burke because he's not truculent.

Assuming you value Luongo fairly, I think the value is alright. Maybe switch San Jose's 1st to a 2nd, but really, calling it the worst proposal you've ever seen and such is "the worst exaggeration I've ever seen."

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Old
08-17-2012, 12:01 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
Absolutely brutal for the Sharks. We give up a top-6 power forward, #1 goalie, and a top-10 offensive defensemen in the league. We get, Luongo (a goalie who i don't see as an upgrade at all, he costs more, for longer, and in a similar situation has failed to win a cup where Niemi did), a forward prospect that cannot break into a non-playoff teams roster, let alone the Sharks roster, and a quality 3rd liner...

I really don't think you thought that through. We don't want Luongo, even for free, so his value is zero in that trade, and Kadri + Hansen is laughable for Niemi, Boyle, Clowe...
your kidding. Luongo is light years a better goalie then Niemi. I'd love to have Bobby Luo on this team, as long as Niemi was also leaving.

But i wouldnt give up Boyle, Clowe and a 1st for him.

I would be willing to consider a simpler deal like

get
Niemi

get
Bobby Luo
MacArthur

:canucks get
Clowe

Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
Wasn't me who opened it, I just responded to someone trying to claim that Luongo is the answer to our playoff woe's, something I find highly hypocritical based on the blame the Vancouver media and fans seem to heap on him.
he could do a great deal to help our playoff woes. And the blame they place on him is unfair. They lost the SCF scoring something like 8 goals in 7 games, and getting shut out in 2 games. And they try and blame luongo because they expect to win scoring 1.1 goals per game or something similar to that.

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Old
08-17-2012, 12:05 PM
  #69
Vankiller Whale
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4thLinePlug View Post
your kidding. Luongo is light years a better goalie then Niemi. I'd love to have Bobby Luo on this team, as long as Niemi was also leaving.

But i wouldnt give up Boyle, Clowe and a 1st for him.

I would be willing to consider a simpler deal like

get
Niemi

get
Bobby Luo
MacArthur

:canucks get
Clowe



he could do a great deal to help our playoff woes. And the blame they place on him is unfair. They lost the SCF scoring something like 8 goals in 7 games, and getting shut out in 2 games. And they try and blame luongo because they expect to win scoring 1.1 goals per game or something similar to that.
Luongo has significantly more value than Clowe, though. Maybe add a 1st + B prospect. I think I would be okay with that.

I guess I tried to solve a problem for the Sharks(speed/youth) at the cost of Boyle, which wasn't a good idea, although I thought that Boyle was on the block.

Luongo for Clowe + 1st + B-prospect would be an okay return.

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Old
08-17-2012, 12:08 PM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodbyeLuongo View Post
DW is gonna be jobless pretty soon. Doesn't it worry any of you Sharks fans that you guys haven't even been to a Final with that roster. My god by now I would have expected SJ to have won at least 2 cups
His job is in such danger that he recently got a 5 year extension.

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Old
08-17-2012, 12:19 PM
  #71
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Why the hell would the Sharks even think about doing this? Also Leafs dont do it either. Vancouver gets an absolute steal and gives up nothing of real value

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Old
08-17-2012, 12:23 PM
  #72
hockeyball
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
I have to say though, Sharks fans saying Luongo has zero value to their team because of his contract is similar to saying Ovechkin has zero value to Burke because he's not truculent.

Assuming you value Luongo fairly, I think the value is alright. Maybe switch San Jose's 1st to a 2nd, but really, calling it the worst proposal you've ever seen and such is "the worst exaggeration I've ever seen."
Again, you have to consider the buyer. Doug Wilson (who is not getting fired anytime soon) is one of the most outspoken GM's against contracts like Luongo's, has actually used Luongo's contract as an example of a terrible contract he would never sign, and has never wavered from that. Luongo is going to have zero to negative value to Doug Wilson.

Regardless of your opinion, or anyone elses, Doug Wilson has made it very clear he hates Luongo's contract and would have never signed it himself. He won't trade for Luongo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4thLinePlug View Post
your kidding. Luongo is light years a better goalie then Niemi. I'd love to have Bobby Luo on this team, as long as Niemi was also leaving.

But i wouldnt give up Boyle, Clowe and a 1st for him.

I would be willing to consider a simpler deal like

get
Niemi

get
Bobby Luo
MacArthur

:canucks get
Clowe



he could do a great deal to help our playoff woes. And the blame they place on him is unfair. They lost the SCF scoring something like 8 goals in 7 games, and getting shut out in 2 games. And they try and blame luongo because they expect to win scoring 1.1 goals per game or something similar to that.
How does getting shutout twice not make my point that he was outplayed when it mattered by Thomas (a very good goalie of course). I didn't say Loungo is bad, I said he's not worth his contract and is not significantly better than Niemi (who does have a cup, so clearly can win one).

The point is, the OP's deal is unrealistic and terrible.

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Old
08-17-2012, 12:30 PM
  #73
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Given DW's stance on long-term contracts, he's not going to take on any contracts like Luongo's, even for free.

And we certainly won't be giving away some of our key players to get him. To a conference rival no less.

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Old
08-17-2012, 12:32 PM
  #74
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Why don't we just give SJS Luongo, Hansen for Clowe and Boyle? They can then trade Niemi for another defenseman, or we'll include Tanev in the deal for something else coming back.

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Old
08-17-2012, 12:53 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by Luck 6 View Post
Why don't we just give SJS Luongo, Hansen for Clowe and Boyle? They can then trade Niemi for another defenseman, or we'll include Tanev in the deal for something else coming back.
I'm getting this image in my hand of you guys putting your fingers in your ears and going 'la-la-la-la-la".

Doug Wilson will not trade for Luongo. He is totally against contracts exactly like that. He wouldn't even give Weber one. Every single time he is asked about those deals he makes it very clear he feels they are bad for the Sharks, bad for hockey, and he want's nothing to do with them.

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