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Gorges to the Caps

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Old
08-18-2012, 07:37 PM
  #26
DekeLikeYouMeanIt
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Value wise it's accurate however Habs need more Gorges than Orlovs and less softies like MoJo.

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08-18-2012, 07:38 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Braden Carlzner View Post
He's an RFA. A much wiser investment than a 32 year old UFA.

And he definitely won't be asking for more than Ribeiro.
that depends on for how long you invest. So you'll rather re-sign Johansson than Riberio because he's young? What if Ribeiro outperforms Johansson pretty badly and really connects with Ovie for instance? Would you still rather keep MoJo?

I realize that as well, but he might ask for more than what GMGM feel he has earned considering what he brings.

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08-18-2012, 07:41 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Mystlyfe View Post
MW6 has such a fascination with attempting to trade Johansson. It's getting pretty hilarious.

Montreal just extended Gorges and they value him in a similar fashion to how the Caps value Alzner. It's not going to happen. Besides, if I was going to overpay for a defensive partner for Green, I'd go for Giordano before I went for Gorges.
Hehe, it's not that I don't like the guy, he's a fellow Swede after all. It's just that I feel that he's the piece that could be traded and bring back the best return without leaving a big hole on the roster. Don't you agree?

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08-18-2012, 07:43 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by DekeLikeYouMeanIt View Post
Value wise it's accurate however Habs need more Gorges than Orlovs and less softies like MoJo.
While I can understand his size being an issue, Mojo isn't a softie.

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08-18-2012, 07:47 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by MW6 View Post
that depends on for how long you invest. So you'll rather re-sign Johansson than Riberio because he's young? What if Ribeiro outperforms Johansson pretty badly and really connects with Ovie for instance? Would you still rather keep MoJo?

I realize that as well, but he might ask for more than what GMGM feel he has earned considering what he brings.
First off, that's a hypothetical scenario. You don't make trades in the here and now based off of what may happen with Ribeiro and Ovechkin this season. If Ribeiro plays well and is extended in Washington, then the scenario changes and we can re-assess the situation. Until that happens, you don't risk your best long term assets.

And it's not one or the other. It's perfectly reasonable to keep both Ribs and MoJo in the hypothetical situation you laid out. The Caps top six is already bereft of reliable skill, and moving Johansson will only make that worse. Trading Johansson is putting way too many eggs in the Wolski basket for me or any reasonable fan to be comfortable. If Wolski doesn't pan out, the top nine ends up looking something like this:
Ovechkin - Backstorm - Brouwer
Chimera - Ribeiro - Laich/Perreault
Crabb - Laich/Perreault - Ward

That's brutal. Absolutely brutal.

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08-18-2012, 08:02 PM
  #31
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I wouldnt mind a trade involving Forsberg and Gorges

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08-18-2012, 08:04 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Mystlyfe View Post
First off, that's a hypothetical scenario. You don't make trades in the here and now based off of what may happen with Ribeiro and Ovechkin this season. If Ribeiro plays well and is extended in Washington, then the scenario changes and we can re-assess the situation. Until that happens, you don't risk your best long term assets.

And it's not one or the other. It's perfectly reasonable to keep both Ribs and MoJo in the hypothetical situation you laid out. The Caps top six is already bereft of reliable skill, and moving Johansson will only make that worse. Trading Johansson is putting way too many eggs in the Wolski basket for me or any reasonable fan to be comfortable. If Wolski doesn't pan out, the top nine ends up looking something like this:
Ovechkin - Backstorm - Brouwer
Chimera - Ribeiro - Laich/Perreault
Crabb - Laich/Perreault - Ward

That's brutal. Absolutely brutal.
I guess that's one way of looking at it, but it got the Kings a cup, so I don't think they're crying about B. Schenn, Simmonds and J.Johnson not being a part of their future.

I don't think a line-up of
Ovechkin-Ribeiro/Backstrom-Perreault
Laich-Backstrom/Ribeiro-Brouwer
Chimera-Beagle-Ward
Hendricks-Stoa/Sjogren/Hamill-Crabb
is much worse than the one the Caps currently have with Johansson, if Wolski doesn't pan out (what qualifies in your mind as paning out btw?) and with the D-line upgraded it certainly would feel better. Who knows Galiev might even be ready halfway through the season it that's the case.

And I think it's in GMGM's best interest to put the best possible team on the ice and focus on this year considering he should be on a pretty short leash.

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08-18-2012, 08:10 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by HatTricK09 View Post
I wouldnt mind a trade involving Forsberg and Gorges
Ouch. I would hate for the Caps to offer us Forsberg for Gorges because saying either yes or no will hurt!! I love Gorges in Montreal. I would love Forsberg in Montreal. Wow, an offer with Forsberg in it would make me think...

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08-18-2012, 08:33 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Braden Carlzner View Post
While I can understand his size being an issue, Mojo isn't a softie.
He goes into the dirty areas but he's physically outclassed 90% of the time. Do not want.

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08-18-2012, 09:13 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by MW6 View Post
I guess that's one way of looking at it, but it got the Kings a cup, so I don't think they're crying about B. Schenn, Simmonds and J.Johnson not being a part of their future.
They didn't make those trades based on unknowns. The chemistry between Ribeiro and other members of the Capitals is an unknown. Whether Ribeiro will extend with the Capitals is an unknown.

Trading Schenn didn't leave a long term hole in their line-up, since they brought in Mike Richards. Trading Johnson didn't leave a long term hole in their line-up, since Voynov was playing so well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MW6 View Post
I don't think a line-up of
Ovechkin-Ribeiro/Backstrom-Perreault
Laich-Backstrom/Ribeiro-Brouwer
Chimera-Beagle-Ward
Hendricks-Stoa/Sjogren/Hamill-Crabb
is much worse than the one the Caps currently have with Johansson, if Wolski doesn't pan out (what qualifies in your mind as paning out btw?) and with the D-line upgraded it certainly would feel better. Who knows Galiev might even be ready halfway through the season it that's the case.
That's depending heavily on Perreault translating well to the wing and Beagle not only maintaining a level of play he's only showed for roughly 40 games, but building upon it. Beagle is fine at 4C, but provides nothing offensively and is far from an ideal fit at 3C. Penciling him in as the primary option there is nothing short of scary. Not to mention Sjogren, Stoa, and Hamill as a 4C, none of which have proven anything at the NHL level (Sjogren even looked pretty darn mediocre in the AHL). Just imagine how bad that line-up looks when injuries start to happen.

As for Wolski panning out, if he can stick in the top 6/9 all season and put up decent point totals (~40 points), I'd count that. If he bounces in and out of the line-up, gets demoted to the AHL, can't produce in the top six, or spends the year as a 4th liner, those are all pretty clearly not panning out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MW6 View Post
And I think it's in GMGM's best interest to put the best possible team on the ice and focus on this year considering he should be on a pretty short leash.
Ownership has given absolutely no indication that McPhee is on a short leash. If anything, their actions suggest the exact opposite. McPhee has constructed an annually competitive team that's reaching the playoffs. I know many fans are frustrated by the lack of a Cup, but ownership is clearly a lot more patient on that matter than they are and believes they could do a lot worse in terms of who's running the team (and they definitely could).

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08-19-2012, 04:54 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Mystlyfe View Post
They didn't make those trades based on unknowns. The chemistry between Ribeiro and other members of the Capitals is an unknown. Whether Ribeiro will extend with the Capitals is an unknown.

Trading Schenn didn't leave a long term hole in their line-up, since they brought in Mike Richards. Trading Johnson didn't leave a long term hole in their line-up, since Voynov was playing so well.


That's depending heavily on Perreault translating well to the wing and Beagle not only maintaining a level of play he's only showed for roughly 40 games, but building upon it. Beagle is fine at 4C, but provides nothing offensively and is far from an ideal fit at 3C. Penciling him in as the primary option there is nothing short of scary. Not to mention Sjogren, Stoa, and Hamill as a 4C, none of which have proven anything at the NHL level (Sjogren even looked pretty darn mediocre in the AHL). Just imagine how bad that line-up looks when injuries start to happen.

As for Wolski panning out, if he can stick in the top 6/9 all season and put up decent point totals (~40 points), I'd count that. If he bounces in and out of the line-up, gets demoted to the AHL, can't produce in the top six, or spends the year as a 4th liner, those are all pretty clearly not panning out.


Ownership has given absolutely no indication that McPhee is on a short leash. If anything, their actions suggest the exact opposite. McPhee has constructed an annually competitive team that's reaching the playoffs. I know many fans are frustrated by the lack of a Cup, but ownership is clearly a lot more patient on that matter than they are and believes they could do a lot worse in terms of who's running the team (and they definitely could).
Well, Johansson developing into a good 2C is also an unknown, so keeping him just because he might turn into a 2C is just a big of a gamble by your arguments. At the moment he isn't one, otherwise they wouldn't have gotten Ribeiro in the first hand. And yes, IF Johansson is the longterm solution for 2C the Caps would still have a hole for #2D. If Gorges arrives the top-4 is set, and this year the Caps have both a 2C and a complete top-4.

Johansson is at the moment just as much of a C as Forsberg or Kuznetsov is. And if Perreault had been given the same opportunity as Johansson had, he would've most likely put up the same production as him.
Johansson had 2,05 pts/60 min last season playing with Ovie most of the year. Perreault had 2,34 pts/60 min last year playing in a bottom-6 role at least half the time. Johansson had 180+ minutes on the PP over the season, Perreault had 60+ minutes.

Ok, I agree, I was just curious about what your expectations for Wolski was.

Yes, they could do worse, but how many coaches should you be allowed to hire while spending to the cap and not surpassing the 2nd round in the playoffs?

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08-19-2012, 05:21 AM
  #37
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Habs won't trade Gorges.

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08-19-2012, 07:15 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Drydenwasthebest View Post
Ouch. I would hate for the Caps to offer us Forsberg for Gorges because saying either yes or no will hurt!! I love Gorges in Montreal. I would love Forsberg in Montreal. Wow, an offer with Forsberg in it would make me think...
It wouldn't hurt a bit to say no to just Forsberg. About the only way it can work for the Habs is if they get somebody who can play Gorges' role back *plus* some juicy incentive on top of that to make up for giving away such an entrenched member of the leadership core and chemistry of the team. So I think you have to put Alzner in any deal, then add your Forsbergs on top of that as enticement, at which point you have so completely defeated the purpose for the Caps and offended their entire fanbase that it wasn't worth the attempt. Far easier to just say "Gorges is not available", and leave it at that.

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08-19-2012, 08:51 AM
  #39
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For me, Brouwer would have to be involved.

Though, Gorges is a great leader and once Gionta retires/isn't signed/dealt I imagine Gorges will take over as captain and then later it will be taken over by Tinordi.

Gorges has high value, but his value is made even higher because of his importance to the habs.

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08-19-2012, 09:02 AM
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Again, hab fans here on the board, over value another player, its a joke, orlov and mj for gorges? You must be smoking some powerful stuff.

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08-19-2012, 09:33 AM
  #41
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Again, hab fans here on the board, over value another player, its a joke, orlov and mj for gorges? You must be smoking some powerful stuff.
You must be a caps fan.... we don't want to replace Gorges by a PMD....Gorges is MTL best defensive D and top 5 in the league for shot block and Penalty kill.

Would you trade Alzner for Weber/Diaz + Eller?

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08-19-2012, 10:08 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Drydenwasthebest View Post
Ouch. I would hate for the Caps to offer us Forsberg for Gorges because saying either yes or no will hurt!! I love Gorges in Montreal. I would love Forsberg in Montreal. Wow, an offer with Forsberg in it would make me think...
Not really.

Value is there taking into account potential, but the reality is Gorges eats up 30 minutes of ice time and can play all situations, wears the A and might be future captain after Gionta leaves the team.

What is the realistic expectation for Filip Forsberg? Maybe 25-25, might break 30 goals once or twice? All while playing a physical, gritty brand of hockey.

That makes him a great 1st line guy, but I wouldn't want to trade today's Gorges for a "chance" at that future Forsberg.

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08-19-2012, 10:26 AM
  #43
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I don't see why Washington wil make this trade, they have Alzner for this kind of role.

Even if I really appreciate Gorges with his Captain attitude(one of my favorite of the Canadiens), I make the deal for Johanssen a great young forward who could play with Plekanek and Gionta. And if there's Orlov (I prefer Forsberg) with him in the trade, why Montreal will not accept?

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08-19-2012, 11:15 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by butters8814 View Post
Again, hab fans here on the board, over value another player, its a joke, orlov and mj for gorges? You must be smoking some powerful stuff.
OP is a Caps fan...woops

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08-19-2012, 11:34 AM
  #45
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Forsberg + Johansson for Gorges = done!

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08-19-2012, 11:50 AM
  #46
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I don't see why the OP deal would be bad for the Habs. Markov being healthy and reasonably productive for the next two seasons would be the gamble here. If we made the trade our d might look like:

Markov - Subban
Emelin - Orlov
Bouillon - Diaz

Kaberle or Weber

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08-19-2012, 12:00 PM
  #47
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Schultz & Laich for Gorges

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08-19-2012, 12:12 PM
  #48
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Schultz & Laich for Gorges
Kaberle and Bouque for Alzner?

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08-19-2012, 12:20 PM
  #49
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I don't see why the OP deal would be bad for the Habs. Markov being healthy and reasonably productive for the next two seasons would be the gamble here. If we made the trade our d might look like:

Markov - Subban
Emelin - Orlov
Bouillon - Diaz

Kaberle or Weber
I would rather keep Gorges and pair him with Beaulieu. I could also see keeping Gorges, pairing him with Subban, and letting Markov work with Tinordi. I think Orlov and Johansson have tons of potential, though. The problem is Markov. If Markov IS healthy, we CAN afford to make this trade due to how good Orlov and Johansson project to become. If Markov is not ready, we can not afford to lose Gorges as well, good value or not.

So, I do tink it is a fair offer, it just is not a good enough one to entice us due to our situation with Markov. If Markov stays healthy, we can revisit this at the trade deadline depending upon where our respective teams are at that time.

Habsawce:. Come on, Forsberg AND Johansson? Too much, we would have to add something good to balance it out. At least our best 2nd round pick in the 2013 draft.

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08-19-2012, 12:25 PM
  #50
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Not really.

Value is there taking into account potential, but the reality is Gorges eats up 30 minutes of ice time and can play all situations, wears the A and might be future captain after Gionta leaves the team.

What is the realistic expectation for Filip Forsberg? Maybe 25-25, might break 30 goals once or twice? All while playing a physical, gritty brand of hockey.

That makes him a great 1st line guy, but I wouldn't want to trade today's Gorges for a "chance" at that future Forsberg.
I never meant Gorges for Forsberg straight up. I meant an offer that included Forsberg would get me into heavy thinking mode. Forsberg and Orlov would probably get me, to be honest. Damn, though, If Johansson can play LW, I can imagine him being a great complement to Plekanec and Gionta, too. Hmmm...this is starting to hurt my brain...lol.

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