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09-06-2012, 05:15 PM
  #326
I in the Eye
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Originally Posted by Ag925 View Post
Will Luongo get a legitimate shot at competing for the No. 1 job?
The Canucks goal is to win the cup... Who ever the coaching staff thinks puts the Canucks in a greater position to win the cup (playoff series / playoff game) will get the chance... It's the reason why Luongo is being traded... When the season was on the line, the coaching staff dressed the roster they felt would win that game... and then the next... and then the next... The team needed a spark, and shaking up the goaltending is a viable option here... If Luongo can play the entire year here, I'm half expecting to have Luongo on the roster that last day of the season, and more what do you do questions next offseason... Such is life with truly having outstanding goaltending, IMO... How do you possibly give that up? Especially when the returns (judging by hf) are terrible?

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09-06-2012, 05:18 PM
  #327
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Let's say he is a Canuck this season, and he's turning in a performance like Tim Thomas did two seasons ago. Do we trade him midway through the season? Or do we keep him and ride his hot streak possibly to a Cup? His value would be at its highest.
Given our luck with injuries? I'd just trade Luongo.

Timmy would've been decimated by us if it was Chara who had a dislocated shoulder, Krejci with a bum hip, Peverly with a compressed vertebrae, Seidenberg with the broken finger, you know the story.

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09-06-2012, 05:29 PM
  #328
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Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
Hopefully not. Schneider wasn't afforded that shot in recent seasons, I don't see why Luongo should now.
When was Schneider ever a Vezina candidate? When did he lead his team to the Finals?

Schneider is a fantastic goaltender, but he had stiff competition. He got every chance to supplant Luongo as number 1 goalie, and did in game 6 vs Chicago until he blew it. If he doesn't get hurt and we win that game, things would be different. This would probably be happening a year earlier and would probably have much more vitriol towards Luongo who couldn't get the Chicago job done for a third year - despite the teams shortcomings in game 4 and 5.

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Old
09-06-2012, 05:56 PM
  #329
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Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
Hopefully not. Schneider wasn't afforded that shot in recent seasons, I don't see why Luongo should now.
Because Luongo has earned it based on what he's done in his career?

When Henrik had 0 points in 9 games this past season he was still given prime minutes/PP time. Are you suggesting he shouldn't have been given those minutes too? You live and die by your star players and like it or not Luongo is an elite NHL player and a piece of our core.

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09-06-2012, 06:00 PM
  #330
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Because Luongo has earned it based on what he's done in his career?
It's pretty apparent that the team is ready to go in a new direction. Luongo deserves a better fate than he's getting now, but MG is really dragging his feet right now

On the topic of what Luongo has earned, based on what Luongo has done in his career, shouldn't Gillis find any way he can to trade Luongo to an East team that really needs starting goaltender, even though MG might not get what he wants in return? Does Luongo deserve to be a 1a/1b or a #2 type of goalie?

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09-06-2012, 06:00 PM
  #331
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Originally Posted by Wilch View Post
Given our luck with injuries? I'd just trade Luongo.

Timmy would've been decimated by us if it was Chara who had a dislocated shoulder, Krejci with a bum hip, Peverly with a compressed vertebrae, Seidenberg with the broken finger, you know the story.
How many people would have been discrediting our Cup win and attributing it to the Bruins injury problems? Instead it was the Canucks who were injured and no one else seems to remember that "minor" detail.

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09-06-2012, 06:02 PM
  #332
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Originally Posted by kanuck87 View Post
It's pretty apparent that the team is ready to go in a new direction, but MG is dragging this out too long because he is being stubborn.

On the topic of what Luongo has earned, based on what Luongo has done in his career, shouldn't Gillis find any way he can to trade Luongo to an East team that really needs starting goaltender, even though MG might not get what he wants in return? Does Luongo deserve to be a 1a/1b or a #2 type of goalie?
MG is dragging this out because he hasn't gotten an offer he likes. I don't care what you think about whether it's time to move on or not, you simply don't trade an elite asset like Luongo for spare parts. You don't win championships by giving away elite players and not addressing your team needs.

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09-06-2012, 06:02 PM
  #333
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Originally Posted by Reverend Mayhem View Post
When was Schneider ever a Vezina candidate? When did he lead his team to the Finals?

Schneider is a fantastic goaltender, but he had stiff competition. He got every chance to supplant Luongo as number 1 goalie, and did in game 6 vs Chicago until he blew it. If he doesn't get hurt and we win that game, things would be different. This would probably be happening a year earlier and would probably have much more vitriol towards Luongo who couldn't get the Chicago job done for a third year - despite the teams shortcomings in game 4 and 5.
Through two months of last season Luongo was 7-5-1 with a .895 save percentage while Schneider was 7-4 with a .921 save percentage. Luongo started 14 of the next 16 games. That is not an open competition.

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09-06-2012, 06:05 PM
  #334
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Because Luongo has earned it based on what he's done in his career?

When Henrik had 0 points in 9 games this past season he was still given prime minutes/PP time. Are you suggesting he shouldn't have been given those minutes too? You live and die by your star players and like it or not Luongo is an elite NHL player and a piece of our core.
If we had Claude Giroux on our team then damn straight that should cost Hank some PP time.

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09-06-2012, 06:05 PM
  #335
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
How many people would have been discrediting our Cup win and attributing it to the Bruins injury problems? Instead it was the Canucks who were injured and no one else seems to remember that "minor" detail.
Probably CGY/EDM/CHI fans.

I'm pretty sure the rest of the teams in Boston's division (and conference for that matter) would be happy to **** on the Bruins had they lost.

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09-06-2012, 06:06 PM
  #336
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
MG is dragging this out because he hasn't gotten an offer he likes. I don't care what you think about whether it's time to move on or not, you simply don't trade an elite asset like Luongo for spare parts. You don't win championships by giving away elite players and not addressing your team needs.
What about for Luongo's sake? He doesn't deserve to be placed in a 1A/1B or back-up situation.

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09-06-2012, 06:11 PM
  #337
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Originally Posted by kanuck87 View Post
What about for Luongo's sake? He doesn't deserve to be placed in a 1A/1B or back-up situation.
Then he should seize the opportunity to win the job outright. He should be given an opportunity to win the starting job.

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09-06-2012, 06:13 PM
  #338
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
Through two months of last season Luongo was 7-5-1 with a .895 save percentage while Schneider was 7-4 with a .921 save percentage. Luongo started 14 of the next 16 games. That is not an open competition.
Luongo had a 0.924SVP in November.

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09-06-2012, 06:13 PM
  #339
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
Through two months of last season Luongo was 7-5-1 with a .895 save percentage while Schneider was 7-4 with a .921 save percentage. Luongo started 14 of the next 16 games. That is not an open competition.
That's because everyone knows the guy is a slow starter, playing poor or not he was just coming off leading the Canucks to the Finals so they had to give him the benefit of the doubt. He got injured, Schneider took over and even when Luongo was back, Schneider was still getting starts. Then, in the playoffs Schneider replaced Luongo because Luongo was not up to par in AV's mind. How is that not open competition? If it wasn't open competition, Schneider would not be a Canuck right now.

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09-06-2012, 06:20 PM
  #340
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Luongo had a 0.924SVP in November.
Yes, if you completely ignore the first month of the season (like Lu apologists like to do) then he played as well as Schneider.

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Originally Posted by Reverend Mayhem View Post
That's because everyone knows the guy is a slow starter, playing poor or not he was just coming off leading the Canucks to the Finals so they had to give him the benefit of the doubt. He got injured, Schneider took over and even when Luongo was back, Schneider was still getting starts. Then, in the playoffs Schneider replaced Luongo because Luongo was not up to par in AV's mind. How is that not open competition? If it wasn't open competition, Schneider would not be a Canuck right now.
Schneider had the better numbers the entire season and it took the team getting desperate for him to get the net. Schneider posted two of the best save percentages in NHL history the last two seasons and was unable to get the net until the last possible minute. Anyone that thinks there was any hope of him getting the net is kidding themselves. What more could he have possibly done?

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Old
09-06-2012, 06:23 PM
  #341
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Then he should seize the opportunity to win the job outright. He should be given an opportunity to win the starting job.
The point is that he should not have to compete for a job. He's earned at least that much. If the Canucks aren't going to give him the job outright, which with Schneider it's within their right to do so, then the Canucks should show him some respect and promptly trade him to a team that will properly use him.

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09-06-2012, 06:23 PM
  #342
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Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
Yes, if you completely ignore the first month of the season (like Lu apologists like to do) then he played as well as Schneider.



Schneider had the better numbers the entire season and it took the team getting desperate for him to get the net. Schneider posted two of the best save percentages in NHL history the last two seasons and was unable to get the net until the last possible minute. Anyone that thinks there was any hope of him getting the net is kidding themselves. What more could he have possibly done?
Luongo always has a bad first month, nothing new there. His reputation is that he has lousy Octobers then dominates the rest of the way. That's what he did more or less. That's what he did the year before too when he was a Vezina finalist and probably would have won the Vezina if he had a tidier October.

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09-06-2012, 06:27 PM
  #343
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Luongo always has a bad first month, nothing new there. His reputation is that he has lousy Octobers then dominates the rest of the way. That's what he did more or less. That's what he did the year before too when he was a Vezina finalist and probably would have won the Vezina if he had a tidier October.
That's all well and good, just don't say that it was a competition, because it wasn't. Schneider has earned the ball to run with, no need for a competition this season either.

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09-06-2012, 06:32 PM
  #344
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Originally Posted by kanuck87 View Post
The point is that he should not have to compete for a job. He's earned at least that much. If the Canucks aren't going to give him the job outright, which with Schneider it's within their right to do so, then the Canucks should show him some respect and promptly trade him to a team that will properly use him.
Disagree.

Everyone should have to compete for their job, otherwise you get players becoming complacent like the Ducks star players.

You also don't dump an asset like Luongo OR Schneider for anything less than what addresses your team needs. It's that simple.

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09-06-2012, 06:35 PM
  #345
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Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
That's all well and good, just don't say that it was a competition, because it wasn't. Schneider has earned the ball to run with, no need for a competition this season either.
Last year Enroth was outplaying Ryan Miller. Should the Sabres have made a switch there?

What you are suggesting is absurd.

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09-06-2012, 06:35 PM
  #346
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Everyone should have to compete for their job
What? You just finished telling me that his vezina nomination and trip to the finals should trump Schneider outplaying him for two months.

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09-06-2012, 06:38 PM
  #347
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Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
What? You just finished telling me that his vezina nomination and trip to the finals should trump Schneider outplaying him for two months.
Doesn't mean some players don't get a little bit of leeway. Had Luongo's October spilled into November and even December then you make a switch. That wasn't the case.

However this year I think you give less leeway to both and go with whoever is playing better from the get go.

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09-06-2012, 06:42 PM
  #348
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Last year Enroth was outplaying Ryan Miller. Should the Sabres have made a switch there?

What you are suggesting is absurd.
When Enroth goes 70+ NHL games with a .930 save percentage then we can talk. There is nothing absurd about giving a guy that consistently plays great the net, it's absurd to keep sticking the kid on the bench.

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09-06-2012, 06:49 PM
  #349
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
Schneider had the better numbers the entire season and it took the team getting desperate for him to get the net. Schneider posted two of the best save percentages in NHL history the last two seasons and was unable to get the net until the last possible minute. Anyone that thinks there was any hope of him getting the net is kidding themselves. What more could he have possibly done?
This confuses me. Outside of October/early November, when Luongo would have a bad run of play, Schneider would be put in. Remember when Luongo stunk up the joint early March? Schneider was put in and Luongo improved. Other than two stretches of play, Luongo was as every bit as good as Schneider was, so what's the argument? There was little hesitation clearly, as when push came to shove Schneider was put in and he played well.

Schneider did everything he could to get the net from our former franchise goalie who we gave a big contract with a NTC, obviously we aren't just giving the net away to some fresh face who played well for 25-30 games a season with somewhat sheltered minutes. I think you undermine the feat that Schneider has achieved. He's the goalie of the future even though from the moment Luongo came in to the picture, he's been considered nothing but a nice chip to sell off to another franchise. If we gave him the net last year, we are dealing with what Tampa will be dealing with this year: a young, unproven goalie taking the reigns of a team with expectations.

Schneider did everything he could and that's why he will be our starter this year, but let's not completely shut out Luongo. As y2k has said, who says Luongo doesn't do what Thomas did in 2010/11? He certainly has the level of play capable of doing so.

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09-06-2012, 06:50 PM
  #350
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Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
When Enroth goes 70+ NHL games with a .930 save percentage then we can talk. There is nothing absurd about giving a guy that consistently plays great the net, it's absurd to keep sticking the kid on the bench.
Well Schneider hadnt done that either at that point. How can you give him credit for something he hadn't accomplished yet?

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