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Luongo Thread - Scorcher 6: Global Meltdown (Mod Warning Post # 694)

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09-06-2012, 07:54 PM
  #351
I in the Eye
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Originally Posted by kanuck87 View Post
What about for Luongo's sake? He doesn't deserve to be placed in a 1A/1B or back-up situation.
Does he deserve to be a starter in Toronto? In Edmonton? In Columbus? For 10 years?!? I don't think even the most vocal Luongo haters would wish that on him... Christ, let the guy stay until a good home can be found... Let him have a chance to win the cup - and win back the #1 job on a cup contending team in the time being... Luongo is not a goat... Don't let him rot in a hole, IMO... If his ego is getting the better of him (#1 anywhere!)... protect the poor guy from himself... when Florida is ready (and really, there's a good chance they'll be ready, at some point - how old is Theodore, 36? 37? 38? and an UFA after this year) send him there... Florida can afford to pay a nice return... They just don't have a need to, right now... With the other teams allegedly in the market for Luongo right now, Florida is basically negotiating with themselves... Any higher bid is basically outbidding themselves... It's between Florida, and Luongo staying in Vancouver, IMO... Until the Florida need is there (don't put Luongo in a situation where he's battling for #1 again!) stay in Vancouver... I believe it's better for everyone, including Luongo - if it's not the right time for Florida... Not a slight on him at all...

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Old
09-06-2012, 08:03 PM
  #352
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Through two months of last season Luongo was 7-5-1 with a .895 save percentage while Schneider was 7-4 with a .921 save percentage. Luongo started 14 of the next 16 games. That is not an open competition.
That might have had something to do with Luongo going 9-1-1 with a .940 sv% in his first 4 weeks back from injury. You're acting like he was throwing up stinkers in December but the coaching staff kept putting him in there.

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Old
09-06-2012, 08:06 PM
  #353
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This confuses me.
There is nothing confusing about it. There was no competition, you said it yourself. Luongo's resume and contract were keeping Schneider on the bench, no matter how well he played. Again, there was no competition.

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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Well Schneider hadnt done that either at that point. How can you give him credit for something he hadn't accomplished yet?
You're right, he had only killed 40 NHL games to that point. Regardless, comparing Enroth to Schneider at any point is ridiculous and shouldn't have even garnered a response.

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Old
09-06-2012, 08:07 PM
  #354
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Originally Posted by opendoor View Post
That might have had something to do with Luongo going 9-1-1 with a .940 sv% in his first 4 weeks back from injury. You're acting like he was throwing up stinkers in December but the coaching staff kept putting him in there.
How he played in those starts is irrelevant, he didn't earn them. There is no telling how well Schneider would have played in those games because he wasn't given the chance to earn those starts.

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09-06-2012, 08:11 PM
  #355
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Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
When Enroth goes 70+ NHL games with a .930 save percentage then we can talk. There is nothing absurd about giving a guy that consistently plays great the net, it's absurd to keep sticking the kid on the bench.
Safe to say that Miller will never come close to those numbers again. Luongo has a better chance.

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Old
09-06-2012, 08:13 PM
  #356
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Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
How he played in those starts is irrelevant, he didn't earn them. There is no telling how well Schneider would have played in those games because he wasn't given the chance to earn those starts.
Schneider really killed it giving up 3 goals on 5 shots in early December against Nashville,

It's absurd to suggest supplanting a goalie like Luongo with an unproven Schneider when Luongo was heating up. IMO if anything doesn't deserve a response, it's that.

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Old
09-06-2012, 08:16 PM
  #357
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Schneider really killed it giving up 3 goals on 5 shots in early December against Nashville,
Talk about cherry picking stats. Ignore 11 games in favour of one period

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Old
09-06-2012, 08:17 PM
  #358
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
There is nothing confusing about it. There was no competition, you said it yourself. Luongo's resume and contract were keeping Schneider on the bench, no matter how well he played. Again, there was no competition.
I'm still confused, if there was no competition why are we trading Luongo again?

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Old
09-06-2012, 08:19 PM
  #359
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Originally Posted by Reverend Mayhem View Post
I'm still confused, if there was no competition why are we trading Luongo again?
Because he asked to be traded.

The question was posed "Will Luongo be given a chance to earn the starter role" and I answered no, he shouldn't. The team did well to avoid a goalie controversy by hitching their cart to one horse. Luongo was always the starter, even when he was being outplayed. IMO the team needs to do the same for Schneider, he's earned it. We're never going to know how good he will be as a starter until we give him the role. Luongo has said it's time to move on, we need to do that.


Last edited by Scurr: 09-06-2012 at 08:24 PM.
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Old
09-06-2012, 08:22 PM
  #360
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How he played in those starts is irrelevant, he didn't earn them. There is no telling how well Schneider would have played in those games because he wasn't given the chance to earn those starts.
Schneider threw up a stinker where he let in 3 goals on 5 shots and the team went with Luongo for the next game. Luongo took the ball and ran with it then put up a nearly .950 sv% over the next couple of weeks. Once Luongo cooled down the team had no problem throwing Schneider into the biggest game of the year vs. Boston.

Whether you like it or not, players with long and proven track records are given much more leeway in their performance compared to guys with little history. That's just a fact and it's why no team (other than ones with terrible goaltending) operates under the system you're suggesting.

With each game's experience Schneider has built up more trust in his abilities to the point now where the team is comfortable moving forward with him as their starter. But it's asinine to expect a goalie who had 40 starts to his name to be given the same amount of leverage in performance as a guy like Luongo. Similarly, it's ridiculous to expect that in the unlikely event that both goalies are on the roster next year that things will be a 180 switch where Luongo is going to get the role of a backup with 30 games experience to his resume; especially when they're trying to move him.

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Old
09-06-2012, 08:22 PM
  #361
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
Because he asked to be traded.
Why did he asked to be traded? (If he did)

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09-06-2012, 08:27 PM
  #362
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Why did he asked to be traded? (If he did)
Because Mike Gillis is the luckiest GM in the world, of course. Somehow without any cajoling or hints from coaching and management Luongo out of nowhere asked to be traded which would rectify Gillis' dilemma of having 2 world class goalies. Gillis can thank his lucky stars that he hadn't traded Schneider yet or he'd be in a real pickle.

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Old
09-06-2012, 08:28 PM
  #363
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Originally Posted by Reverend Mayhem View Post
Why did he asked to be traded?
I'm not sure we've heard the whole story on this.

There was a rumor he was being shopped at the deadline. There is the fact that - despite being one of the best players - he got benched during the playoffs. There are Cory's comments that he considers himself ready to be a starter.

But I'm not sure that is sufficient to explain how a dude gets to the state where every time the GM suggests both goalies could stay, he goes public with "it's been a slice, but it's time to move on".

Then again, maybe it is, and getting benched was simply his Patrick Roy moment.

 
Old
09-06-2012, 08:29 PM
  #364
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Originally Posted by opendoor View Post
Schneider threw up a stinker where he let in 3 goals on 5 shots and the team went with Luongo for the next game. Luongo took the ball and ran with it then put up a nearly .950 sv% over the next couple of weeks. Once Luongo cooled down the team had no problem throwing Schneider into the biggest game of the year vs. Boston.

Whether you like it or not, players with long and proven track records are given much more leeway in their performance compared to guys with little history. That's just a fact and it's why no team (other than ones with terrible goaltending) operates under the system you're suggesting.

With each game's experience Schneider has built up more trust in his abilities to the point now where the team is comfortable moving forward with him as their starter. But it's asinine to expect a goalie who had 40 starts to his name to be given the same amount of leverage in performance as a guy like Luongo. Similarly, it's ridiculous to expect that in the unlikely event that both goalies are on the roster next year that things will be a 180 switch where Luongo is going to get the role of a backup with 30 games experience to his resume; especially when they're trying to move him.
You're giving me the reason there was no competition... that's what I was saying. The team hitched their cart to Luongo for a variety of reasons, now it's time to do the same for Schneider.

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Old
09-06-2012, 08:34 PM
  #365
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Why did he asked to be traded? (If he did)
Because he wants to shut his wife up.

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Old
09-06-2012, 08:56 PM
  #366
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Probably CGY/EDM/CHI fans.

I'm pretty sure the rest of the teams in Boston's division (and conference for that matter) would be happy to **** on the Bruins had they lost.
Not so sure about that. Pretty sure everyone besides Montreal fans were cheering for Boston.

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09-06-2012, 09:00 PM
  #367
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Gillis was on Dave Pratts show tonight. Some info:

"We've had some discussions with other teams trying to accommodate his wishes, but as it sits right now we are perfectly comfortably having Roberto back, he's a true professional. If he's here we're more than happy to have him here, if he's not - then we've improving our team in a another area".

"I haven't spoken to Dale [Tallon] in some time. The balls really in their court to present a proposal that would be acceptable to us. That hasn't happened as of yet. Other teams have presented numerous proposals that are under consideration. But as it sits right now, I think everyone's waiting to see the new system - the resolution of CBA issues. Until those are resolved, you're not likely going to see activity in the NHL".

Is Lu's NTC going to be an issue if you get a deal done?: "I'm not sure. We've talked to him about possibilities besides Florida. He seems to be open to other possibilities. We'll see at the time".

Is the biggest problem moving his contract?: "No, as you've seen teams have been eager to sign players of this caliber for long term contracts at large compensation dollars. Not one team has suggest that his contract is the issue in making a trade".

He said there would be competition from the goalies re: games played next season. Meaning, Schneids will not be gifted the #1 spot, they'll both compete for games played.


Last edited by SunshineRays: 09-06-2012 at 10:57 PM.
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09-07-2012, 01:22 AM
  #368
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Originally Posted by SunshineRays View Post
Gillis was on Dave Pratts show tonight. Some info:

"We've had some discussions with other teams trying to accommodate his wishes, but as it sits right now we are perfectly comfortably having Roberto back, he's a true professional. If he's here we're more than happy to have him here, if he's not - then we've improving our team in a another area".

"I haven't spoken to Dale [Tallon] in some time. The balls really in their court to present a proposal that would be acceptable to us. That hasn't happened as of yet. Other teams have presented numerous proposals that are under consideration. But as it sits right now, I think everyone's waiting to see the new system - the resolution of CBA issues. Until those are resolved, you're not likely going to see activity in the NHL".

Is Lu's NTC going to be an issue if you get a deal done?: "I'm not sure. We've talked to him about possibilities besides Florida. He seems to be open to other possibilities. We'll see at the time".

Is the biggest problem moving his contract?: "No, as you've seen teams have been eager to sign players of this caliber for long term contracts at large compensation dollars. Not one team has suggest that his contract is the issue in making a trade".

He said there would be competition from the goalies re: games played next season. Meaning, Schneids will not be gifted the #1 spot, they'll both compete for games played.

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09-07-2012, 02:10 AM
  #369
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Old
09-07-2012, 02:11 AM
  #370
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I am honestly hoping we hold on to Luongo. Just watched more highlights from the 2011 playoff run and I really think Luongo could be a beast in the playoffs again for us. This time hopefully our entire defense won't be decimated by injury.

Sign Shane Doan, keep team relatively as is (move Raymond for cap space for Doan) and we are set.

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Old
09-07-2012, 02:15 AM
  #371
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Originally Posted by SunshineRays View Post
Gillis was on Dave Pratts show tonight. Some info:

"We've had some discussions with other teams trying to accommodate his wishes, but as it sits right now we are perfectly comfortably having Roberto back, he's a true professional. If he's here we're more than happy to have him here, if he's not - then we've improving our team in a another area".

"I haven't spoken to Dale [Tallon] in some time. The balls really in their court to present a proposal that would be acceptable to us. That hasn't happened as of yet. Other teams have presented numerous proposals that are under consideration. But as it sits right now, I think everyone's waiting to see the new system - the resolution of CBA issues. Until those are resolved, you're not likely going to see activity in the NHL".

Is Lu's NTC going to be an issue if you get a deal done?: "I'm not sure. We've talked to him about possibilities besides Florida. He seems to be open to other possibilities. We'll see at the time".

Is the biggest problem moving his contract?: "No, as you've seen teams have been eager to sign players of this caliber for long term contracts at large compensation dollars. Not one team has suggest that his contract is the issue in making a trade".

He said there would be competition from the goalies re: games played next season. Meaning, Schneids will not be gifted the #1 spot, they'll both compete for games played.
that sounds to me like Florida is pretty cold on getting a deal done for Luongo.

Sounds also like teams like Chi/Tor may have offers on the table gillis is thinking about while this CBA mess gets handled.

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Old
09-07-2012, 03:31 AM
  #372
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
I am honestly hoping we hold on to Luongo. Just watched more highlights from the 2011 playoff run and I really think Luongo could be a beast in the playoffs again for us. This time hopefully our entire defense won't be decimated by injury.

Sign Shane Doan, keep team relatively as is (move Raymond for cap space for Doan) and we are set.

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Old
09-07-2012, 04:49 AM
  #373
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When the CBA is settled the whole landscape may be changed. At that time, for all we know, now, Luongo will be a free agent! If not, a starting goalie with something to prove and a low cap hit might be desireable to a team that is thinking of actually competing.

Luongo will pay no state taxes in Florida, about a ten percent savings over his current rates in Vancouver (including federal taxes). When you factor in the shelters, he should realize as much as an extra million per annum! So, a million a year and he can let the wife think she got her way. Not too shabby!

There is still a lot of stuff up in the air. I think Boston, Philidelphia and Tampa are still much more likely destinations than the reported Florida, Chicago and Toronto. It makes more sense when you factor in the Ontario teams as dump sites for displaced goalies. Bryzgalov to Toronto, for example.

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09-07-2012, 05:55 AM
  #374
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I am honestly hoping we hold on to Luongo.
Wow really???


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Old
09-07-2012, 06:41 AM
  #375
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How he played in those starts is irrelevant, he didn't earn them. There is no telling how well Schneider would have played in those games because he wasn't given the chance to earn those starts.
Management made a decision to rest the entire team during the preseason going into last season (it is identified here: http://m.theglobeandmail.com/sports/...service=mobile). Luongo as well as the whole team basically treated the first month as their preseason.

After the first month Luongo sparkled with a 0.923 save%. That's elite territory. Schneider was obviously amazing as well putting up a 0.930 save% for the season

We had two amazing goalies both rolling well...and that's a good thing...the rest of the team was a bit of a dissapointment.

You give about half the teams in the league the goatending that we got last year and they compete for the President's trophy.

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