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Luongo Thread - Scorcher 6: Global Meltdown (Mod Warning Post # 694)

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Old
09-08-2012, 12:45 PM
  #451
y2kcanucks
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
You're more looking at what looks good on paper and not what will help the team. Injuries always play a crucial role and both players provide quality depth. On paper, neither player is a huge upgrade. In reality, both would greatly improve the team when the inevitable injuries hit the top 9 and backend.

Kulemin would be a valuable addition up front and provide depth, size, secondary scoring and strong defensive play. Kulemin has shown he can score 5 on 5 and that's what the team needs. Another 20-20 forward with the size and strength to get to the net against good defensive teams certainly fills a team need. Look what the Bruins did by having 20 goal scorers littered throughout the top 9...

Gunnarsson would allow for Ballard to be moved, opening up much needed cap flexibility. Gunnarsson solidifies the backend longterm and gives the Canucks 4 strong defensive defenseman - something that would make Schneider's transition into a starters role that much smoother.

Sedin Sedin Burrows
Higgins Kesler Hansen
Kulemin Schroeder Booth
Malhotra Lapierre Kassian

Hamhuis Bieksa
Edler Gunnarsson
Garrison Tanev

Schneider

That is much better than going into next years playoffs without those 2 and a Schneider/Luongo tandem. Gillis would also have all season to try and bring in another impact forward.
So we are going to somehow transition this team to playing like the Boston Bruins? Are the Sedins going to start fighting now? Hell...are they going to stop letting players punch them in the face at the very least?

Again, Kulemin is more of what we have. In your proposed lineup where is the second line? I see a first line, two third lines, and a fourth line. I guess its ok to go into the playoffs not expecting to score again? What this team needs is a legitimate top 6 forward who can score in the playoffs.

I like how you just assume Gunnarsson can play top 4 minutes on this team and that he will play well on the right side. He's a left side defenseman. We already have 4 of those, Gunnarsson will be 5. Playing a defensive defenseman on the wrong side most likely won't work out very well. Then what? Then you've not only wasted the Luongo trade, but you've also dumped Ballard to replace him with someone who's no better and is actually worse offensively.

There is nothing about your proposed trade that I like.

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09-08-2012, 04:04 PM
  #452
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Originally Posted by ddawg1950 View Post
I know I wll get flamed for this, but in the limited time I saw him, I liked Kadri's upside. He is quick, has good vision and very soft hands. He's been training with Roberts this summer and I suspect he is going to male a real contribution this year. I'd be quite happy if he was included in a package from Toronto.

I favour Kadri also, but Colborne is the "safer," bigger option. With the way Gillis is going, Colborne seems more in the mold of what Gillis would favour. That said, Colborne's upside is dubious. While you know Kadri has the skill of a top6'er.


Colborne's also isn't consistent enough for the bottom6. Kadri also makes more sense on the wing. So if Gillis really does not want to block Schroeder's advancement, he should lean towards Kadri.


As an aside, I agree with Canucker's take on a potential deal. Better future pieces rather than mediocre current pieces. If Kulemin is a target, just sign Kostitsyn. The latter has been far more consistent offensively. Despite the work ethic issues. And Gunnar would have to show capability on the right side prior to any deal. As it stands, he's behind Edler and Hamhuis here. Not to mention Garrison as a bottom pairing D... ?


Kadri + 1st has got to be the base. Kadri isn't a sure enough top6 option at this point to not have a 1st coming back with him.

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09-08-2012, 04:59 PM
  #453
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
Kadri + 1st has got to be the base. Kadri isn't a sure enough top6 option at this point to not have a 1st coming back with him.
To me, Kadri isn't the right fit... I just don't think he would fit here with what the Canucks are looking to do going forward... I give it 1 month before Kadri would be #1 in AV's doghouse I don't know if Kadri will reach his potential or not, but I don't think he'd get the opportunity to realistically reach it here, even if he has it in him to reach it... Unless Kadri is great defensively, like Raymond... And even then, I could see Kadri just as easily get the Wellwood treatment...

Just going by hf standards, it looks like Kadri is a 7.5c prospect (not that that means anything, but it's what I've got!)...

If a 7.5C + 1st is a base from Toronto, I like the 7.0 range prospects from Florida much better... say:

Petrovic (7.0B)... He'd fit real well here, IMO... right handed shot, physical, mean, puck-mover... He's probably real close to being on the roster... A right-side D of Bieksa, Tanev, and Petrovic looks great... Left-side D of Edler, Hamhuis, Garrison looks great... It's a nice mix, and all can move the puck...

Shore (7.0C)... He'd fit real well here too, IMO... He sounds like a future Malhotra-replacement, and could be on the roster pretty soon (call up as soon as this year?)... He's the type of player that AV and Gillis would really like in the system, IMHO... Shore, Gaunce, Jensen, Kassian - he just fits within that future forward group...

If the base from Toronto is Kadri + 1st, I'd personally be much more pleased with a base from Florida of Petrovic + Shore...

Petrovic + Shore + choice to flip 1st rounders in 2013 (potential to move up some spots) is a deal I'd be pretty pleased with... Our prospect depth is improved, with players that fit... I do think Luongo is worth more, and I think Gillis should take all the time he can to try and get more, but I'd be pretty happy with this type of return... Chances are, Petrovic is on the opening day roster (nice missing out on Schultz consolation prize), and Shore will see some games too...

If Toronto is inclined to beat out a Petrovic + Shore + choice to flip 1sts, by all means, they can have the opportunity to outbid...

I'd love to be able to get Gudbranson or Bjugstad, but I don't think that's in the cards for anytime soon... If Petrovic (Gudbranson-lite) + Shore (Bjugstad-lite), both with great potential themselves + choice to flip 1sts can send Luongo to Florida prior to the season starting, it's a good return for me (and best for Luongo, and probably Schneider, as well)... If this return isn't good enough, then unfortunately, need to wait longer... It's a price that Florida can easily pay too, IMO... If Florida doesn't accept that, they are just being obstinate...


Last edited by I in the Eye: 09-08-2012 at 05:04 PM.
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09-08-2012, 05:08 PM
  #454
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Originally Posted by I in the Eye View Post
To me, Kadri isn't the right fit... I just don't think he would fit here with what the Canucks are looking to do going forward... I give it 1 month before Kadri would be #1 in AV's doghouse I don't know if Kadri will reach his potential or not, but I don't think he'd get the opportunity to realistically reach it here, even if he has it in him to reach it... Unless Kadri is great defensively, like Raymond... And even then, I could see Kadri just as easily get the Wellwood treatment...

Just going by hf standards, it looks like Kadri is a 7.5c prospect (not that that means anything, but it's what I've got!)...

If a 7.5C + 1st is a base from Toronto, I like the 7.0 range prospects from Florida much better... say:

Petrovic (7.0B)... He'd fit real well here, IMO... right handed shot, physical, mean, puck-mover... He's probably real close to being on the roster... A right-side D of Bieksa, Tanev, and Petrovic looks great... Left-side D of Edler, Hamhuis, Garrison looks great... It's a nice mix, and all can move the puck...

Shore (7.0C)... He'd fit real well here too, IMO... He sounds like a future Malhotra-replacement, and could be on the roster pretty soon (call up as soon as this year?)... He's the type of player that AV and Gillis would really like in the system, IMHO... Shore, Gaunce, Jensen, Kassian - he just fits within that future forward group...

If the base from Toronto is Kadri + 1st, I'd personally be much more pleased with a base from Florida of Petrovic + Shore...

Petrovic + Shore + choice to flip 1st rounders in 2013 (potential to move up some spots) is a deal I'd be pretty pleased with... Our prospect depth is improved, with players that fit... I do think Luongo is worth more, and I think Gillis should take all the time he can to try and get more, but I'd be pretty happy with this type of return... Chances are, Petrovic is on the opening day roster (nice missing out on Schultz consolation prize), and Shore will see some games too...

If Toronto is inclined to beat out a Petrovic + Shore + choice to flip 1sts, by all means, they can have the opportunity to outbid...

I'd love to be able to get Gudbranson or Bjugstad, but I don't think that's in the cards for anytime soon... If Petrovic (Gudbranson-lite) + Shore (Bjugstad-lite), both with great potential themselves + choice to flip 1sts can send Luongo to Florida prior to the season starting, it's a good return for me (and best for Luongo, and probably Schneider, as well)... If this return isn't good enough, then unfortunately, need to wait longer... It's a price that Florida can easily pay too, IMO... If Florida doesn't accept that, they are just being obstinate...
Getting Petrovic from the Panthers would be a steal. I've watched him play numerous times in the WHL and his defensive game is unmatched, plus he can play on the PP and the PK. Tonnes of upside from this guy, and I could see him and Tanev making some good chemistry.

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09-08-2012, 05:19 PM
  #455
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Originally Posted by Chief Wiggum View Post
Getting Petrovic from the Panthers would be a steal. I've watched him play numerous times in the WHL and his defensive game is unmatched, plus he can play on the PP and the PK. Tonnes of upside from this guy, and I could see him and Tanev making some good chemistry.
The only two things I know about Petrovic is that he's a real nice prospect, and he has the attributes that the Canucks exactly need...

I'm not looking for a steal from Florida... If Petrovic is that good (nice chance to be a long-term Edler partner / top pairing dman) then just getting him and the opportunity to flip 1sts is good enough for me...

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09-08-2012, 05:23 PM
  #456
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Originally Posted by I in the Eye View Post
To me, Kadri isn't the right fit... I just don't think he would fit here with what the Canucks are looking to do going forward... I give it 1 month before Kadri would be #1 in AV's doghouse I don't know if Kadri will reach his potential or not, but I don't think he'd get the opportunity to realistically reach it here, even if he has it in him to reach it... Unless Kadri is great defensively, like Raymond... And even then, I could see Kadri just as easily get the Wellwood treatment...

Just going by hf standards, it looks like Kadri is a 7.5c prospect (not that that means anything, but it's what I've got!)...

If a 7.5C + 1st is a base from Toronto, I like the 7.0 range prospects from Florida much better... say:

Petrovic (7.0B)... He'd fit real well here, IMO... right handed shot, physical, mean, puck-mover... He's probably real close to being on the roster... A right-side D of Bieksa, Tanev, and Petrovic looks great... Left-side D of Edler, Hamhuis, Garrison looks great... It's a nice mix, and all can move the puck...

Shore (7.0C)... He'd fit real well here too, IMO... He sounds like a future Malhotra-replacement, and could be on the roster pretty soon (call up as soon as this year?)... He's the type of player that AV and Gillis would really like in the system, IMHO... Shore, Gaunce, Jensen, Kassian - he just fits within that future forward group...

If the base from Toronto is Kadri + 1st, I'd personally be much more pleased with a base from Florida of Petrovic + Shore...

Petrovic + Shore + choice to flip 1st rounders in 2013 (potential to move up some spots) is a deal I'd be pretty pleased with... Our prospect depth is improved, with players that fit... I do think Luongo is worth more, and I think Gillis should take all the time he can to try and get more, but I'd be pretty happy with this type of return... Chances are, Petrovic is on the opening day roster (nice missing out on Schultz consolation prize), and Shore will see some games too...

If Toronto is inclined to beat out a Petrovic + Shore + choice to flip 1sts, by all means, they can have the opportunity to outbid...

I'd love to be able to get Gudbranson or Bjugstad, but I don't think that's in the cards for anytime soon... If Petrovic (Gudbranson-lite) + Shore (Bjugstad-lite), both with great potential themselves + choice to flip 1sts can send Luongo to Florida prior to the season starting, it's a good return for me (and best for Luongo, and probably Schneider, as well)... If this return isn't good enough, then unfortunately, need to wait longer... It's a price that Florida can easily pay too, IMO... If Florida doesn't accept that, they are just being obstinate...

I was speaking purely from an asset return perspective. Yes, I agree that FLA has the pieces, even beyond Bjugstad, to make a very competitive offer. No question there.


If perchance Gillis is open to the "many for one future assets" type of approach, that's not a bad return at all. Although I would insist on the 1st being included... They picked late this year, and if they are only going to get better with Lu, it seems likely they'll challenge for the division again. Thus, the pick has a good chance of being late again. Finally, if Raymond is included, there's also more reason to get that 1st coming back.


Moving off Bjugstad is huge. If Gillis does, then the lesser assets have to be all on the table. If not, what's the point?

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09-08-2012, 05:55 PM
  #457
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In your proposed lineup where is the second line? I see a first line, two third lines, and a fourth line.

I like how you just assume Gunnarsson can play top 4 minutes on this team and that he will play well on the right side. He's a left side defenseman. We already have 4 of those, Gunnarsson will be 5. Playing a defensive defenseman on the wrong side most likely won't work out very well. Then what? Then you've not only wasted the Luongo trade, but you've also dumped Ballard to replace him with someone who's no better and is actually worse offensively.
How many teams have you seen with a 3rd line equal to Higgins, Kesler and Hansen/Booth? Higgins was outstanding last year, Kesler is a 1st line talent and Hansen or Booth are more than adequate 2nd line forwards. In no way, shape or form is that trio 3rd line quality.

Never mind the fact Kulemin led the Leafs in '10-11 with over 40ES points and put up 30 goals and 57 points. He's another solid 5 on 5 point producer that brings a combination of size and defensive play every team covets. I fail to see how a 230lb forward is redundant on this team. The Canucks have had problems getting to the opposition net and that's something Kulemin can do.

Gunnarsson would provide insurance in case Garrison doesn't find chemistry with Edler, something Keith Ballard won't. He also comes at 1/3 the cap hit of Ballard and is the superior player IMO. Gunnarsson is suited perfectly for the #5 slot and should be able to seamlessly slide into the top 4 when the inevitable injuries occur.

Like I said, on paper, the trade looks lukewarm. In reality, this trade looks golden once injuries hit the roster. They provide excellent depth while making the team younger and bigger - both things Gillis is looking to do. The fact it saves the team over $8mil in cap space and gives the team flexibility to pursue other impact players makes this a no-brainer IMO if a deal for a top 6 forward isn't out there.

I would prefer a deal based around Goc and Petrovic because it fills bigger organizational needs but if Tallon refuses to step up to the plate with a competitive offer, this is a fair alternative and one that makes the team much better prepared to handle the rigours of a long playoff run.

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09-08-2012, 06:43 PM
  #458
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You guys are ignoring the obvious. Garrison and Gunnarsson would be so difficult to differentiate for broadcasters.

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09-08-2012, 06:45 PM
  #459
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Kadri, Gunnarson, Kulemin, 1st for Luongo, Raymond, 2nd(from Ballard deal.)

Then move the 1st for some help up front before the deadline.

If there's a lockout then there goes one year where we had a few cap friendly contracts on our team.

Edler, Burrows, Higgins, Lapierre, etc. Would be a huge step back.

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09-08-2012, 06:48 PM
  #460
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
How many teams have you seen with a 3rd line equal to Higgins, Kesler and Hansen/Booth? Higgins was outstanding last year, Kesler is a 1st line talent and Hansen or Booth are more than adequate 2nd line forwards. In no way, shape or form is that trio 3rd line quality.

Never mind the fact Kulemin led the Leafs in '10-11 with over 40ES points and put up 30 goals and 57 points. He's another solid 5 on 5 point producer that brings a combination of size and defensive play every team covets. I fail to see how a 230lb forward is redundant on this team. The Canucks have had problems getting to the opposition net and that's something Kulemin can do.

Gunnarsson would provide insurance in case Garrison doesn't find chemistry with Edler, something Keith Ballard won't. He also comes at 1/3 the cap hit of Ballard and is the superior player IMO. Gunnarsson is suited perfectly for the #5 slot and should be able to seamlessly slide into the top 4 when the inevitable injuries occur.

Like I said, on paper, the trade looks lukewarm. In reality, this trade looks golden once injuries hit the roster. They provide excellent depth while making the team younger and bigger - both things Gillis is looking to do. The fact it saves the team over $8mil in cap space and gives the team flexibility to pursue other impact players makes this a no-brainer IMO if a deal for a top 6 forward isn't out there.

I would prefer a deal based around Goc and Petrovic because it fills bigger organizational needs but if Tallon refuses to step up to the plate with a competitive offer, this is a fair alternative and one that makes the team much better prepared to handle the rigours of a long playoff run.
And how well do Kesler, Higgins and Hansen play in the playoffs? We are a team that can't score in the playoffs and trading an elite goalie like Luongo for spare parts is absurd.

I'm really glad you have no power over the Canucks transactions because you've suggested two terrible trades involving an elite goalie for spare parts. Yes, that's what those players are.

You still haven't addressed how you think a left side defensive defenseman is going to somehow play well on the right side in our top 4. Kulemin is also coming off a 7 goal season so hyping him up for what he did two years ago isn't going to fly. Raymond scored 25 goals a few years ago, yet you are content with just giving him away.

Essentially you want to replace Raymond and Ballard with cheaper players who most likely wont have a bigger impact for us than them, and give away Luongo in the process.

I really don't understand your obsession with Goc. He's a 20 point 3rd liner. We need offense, his 20 points don't suggest he will be an impact player in the playoffs for us, so why would we add another guy who can't help us offensively to overload our team with those sorts of players? Petrovic is an ok piece but defensive prospects aren't something we lack so again, adding more of what we already have an abundance of.

Cap space isn't going to score goals for us either. In fact, I don't think Cap Space has ever scored a goal for any team. Also it's handy that you think we can just acquire an elite player to help us offensively sometime later but that won't be the case. Just because our fans have no problem trading an elite player for nothing doesn't mean other teams will do that for us. The whole concept is absurd.

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09-08-2012, 07:00 PM
  #461
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Any of you aware of this:

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Originally Posted by tempest2i View Post
http://www.theprovince.com/sports/ho...195/story.html

"Earlier this week, Luongo made his most direct public statement, saying the Florida Panthers made sense as his next destination. Hes spoken privately with Panthers management, and the Canucks are well aware that Florida is his preferred destination."

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09-08-2012, 07:03 PM
  #462
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And how well do Kesler, Higgins and Hansen play in the playoffs? We are a team that can't score in the playoffs and trading an elite goalie like Luongo for spare parts is absurd.

I'm really glad you have no power over the Canucks transactions because you've suggested two terrible trades involving an elite goalie for spare parts. Yes, that's what those players are.

You still haven't addressed how you think a left side defensive defenseman is going to somehow play well on the right side in our top 4. Kulemin is also coming off a 7 goal season so hyping him up for what he did two years ago isn't going to fly. Raymond scored 25 goals a few years ago, yet you are content with just giving him away.

Essentially you want to replace Raymond and Ballard with cheaper players who most likely wont have a bigger impact for us than them, and give away Luongo in the process.

I really don't understand your obsession with Goc. He's a 20 point 3rd liner. We need offense, his 20 points don't suggest he will be an impact player in the playoffs for us, so why would we add another guy who can't help us offensively to overload our team with those sorts of players? Petrovic is an ok piece but defensive prospects aren't something we lack so again, adding more of what we already have an abundance of.

Cap space isn't going to score goals for us either. In fact, I don't think Cap Space has ever scored a goal for any team. Also it's handy that you think we can just acquire an elite player to help us offensively sometime later but that won't be the case. Just because our fans have no problem trading an elite player for nothing doesn't mean other teams will do that for us. The whole concept is absurd.
For once I agree with y2k. We can't be trading an elite goalie for spare parts. I would be fine with a deal based around Kadri as I feel he has the potential to be an elite scorer, we need players like that on their ELCs. Kadri is the same age as Kassian, he has another year or two before he has to really put it together. Kadri and a 1st in this deep draft could really help us re stock some upper level talent in our prospect pool. Of course, I'd rather trade Luongo for someone that helps us win now, I don't think anyone is available for a goalie though. We may have to address that with picks at the deadline, at least we'd have an extra 1st to play with tho.

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09-08-2012, 07:20 PM
  #463
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The other thing about getting parts to round out the roster now is what it means for the future... Meaning, are these pieces going to supplement the current roster, or are they replacements.


Edler, Burrows, Higgins, Malhotra and Raymond etc... Are all up this year. If most of these guys are set to return, then I can see the Kulemins and the Gunnarson's being squeezed out anyways. However, if they are replacements, it changes the perception on the deal.


Personally, I think most of the people up for contract have bought in, so they are likely to re-sign. If they do, any redundant pieces brought in are that much more likely to be shed that much sooner. So it might not make sense over-stock on even more depth at this point in time.


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09-08-2012, 07:23 PM
  #464
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Any of you aware of this:
tampering

we will take Bjustad as compensation, k thanks.

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09-08-2012, 07:30 PM
  #465
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Any of you aware of this:
Interesting. Unless he had approval from Canucks, isn't that some sort of tampering issue by both player and Florida?

Botch can be sketchy, but he's the only Van media writer who's had inside info re: Luongo. And Botch has said that Tallons offer was garbage. In the last 2 days both Gillis and Tallon have stated they haven't talked to eachother in a long time. Not sure how eager they are to get Luongo, at least not till the new CBA.

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09-08-2012, 07:31 PM
  #466
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Also it's handy that you think we can just acquire an elite player to help us offensively sometime later but that won't be the case. Just because our fans have no problem trading an elite player for nothing doesn't mean other teams will do that for us. The whole concept is absurd.
Of course you don't understand, you want to trade Luongo for Patrick Kane. The reality of the situation just doesn't line up with your perceptions and until they do you will want to hold onto Luongo until an elite player is offered - something that obviously isn't going to happen.

Calling Gunnarsson and Kulemin 'nothing' is what is truly absurd. Gunnarsson was on the Leafs top pairing and Kulemin is a very strong two-way forward that is built like a tank and can flat out fly. They're both solid players on very cheap deals. They would allow us to keep the core group together and give the team flexibility to make further improvements if the opportunity rolls around.

Again, you're going to disagree with every single offer that comes Gillis' way. Holding onto both goalies would be a complete disaster - infinitely worse than any deal I've proposed.

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09-08-2012, 07:36 PM
  #467
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tampering

we will take Bjustad as compensation, k thanks.
Wonder if Burke would like to have a private meeting with Luongo... Wonder if Gillis would allow that to happen...

Up your offer, Burke, so that I can present you as a viable destination to Luongo? Once you're a viable destintion, then you can talk to Luongo?

Because of the good relationship between Gillis, Luongo, and Tallon, wouldn't surprise me in the least (given Luongo wants to go to Florida) that Gillis would allow Tallon the opportunity to talk to Luongo (or, Luongo the opportunity to talk to Tallon... whoever asked - assuming Botchford is telling the truth, which is possible he's not)...

To get into this game, Toronto really does need to make a significant offer... Kadri? no thanks for me... Right idea in terms of "older prospect" ready to step in soon... Right "prospect level" - hf standards - 7.5C) Wrong prospect... Kadri doesn't get Burke a private conversation with Luongo, IMO...

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09-08-2012, 07:40 PM
  #468
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Originally Posted by SunshineRays View Post
And Botch has said that Tallons offer was garbage.
If Tallon's offer was garbage, IMO, it was a **** you to Gillis for asking for the moon (it was like a Bernier rfa offer sheet, for offer sheeting Backes)... A game of **** you, between two friendly competitors... Once Gillis comes down, I believe a deal will get done (be it now, 6 months from now, a year from now)... A nice return that makes sense for both sides...


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09-08-2012, 07:42 PM
  #469
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Any of you aware of this:
Aware, and not surprised. Gillis has to do this for a couple of reasons. For one, it gives Tallon a first hand account of Lu's desire to play there. Second, it let's Lu know how interested FLA is. Lastly, it keeps things open... As in no Gillis filter. Lu knows what the situation is without having to go through Gillis. Good for all.

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09-08-2012, 07:50 PM
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Aware, and not surprised. Gillis has to do this for a couple of reasons. For one, it gives Tallon a first hand account of Lu's desire to play there. Second, it let's Lu know how interested FLA is. Lastly, it keeps things open... As in no Gillis filter. Lu knows what the situation is without having to go through Gillis. Good for all.
A first hand account of what Florida's plans and thoughts are - with a 37 year old? Theodore approaching UFA, with the team, how interested Florida would or might be, when... might just be what Gillis needs to have Luongo return for one final season, or some part of the season... If Florida is real interested, just not now / not the right time... Luongo might not jump ship right now, to go somewhere else... Try to win a cup in the meantime...


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09-08-2012, 07:53 PM
  #471
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
Of course you don't understand, you want to trade Luongo for Patrick Kane. The reality of the situation just doesn't line up with your perceptions and until they do you will want to hold onto Luongo until an elite player is offered - something that obviously isn't going to happen.

Calling Gunnarsson and Kulemin 'nothing' is what is truly absurd. Gunnarsson was on the Leafs top pairing and Kulemin is a very strong two-way forward that is built like a tank and can flat out fly. They're both solid players on very cheap deals. They would allow us to keep the core group together and give the team flexibility to make further improvements if the opportunity rolls around.

Again, you're going to disagree with every single offer that comes Gillis' way. Holding onto both goalies would be a complete disaster - infinitely worse than any deal I've proposed.
Trading Luongo and not improving our team would be a disaster. I really don't understand how anyone can think that trading an elite player for spare parts is a good idea.

Again, Gunnarsson is a left side defenseman and you think some how he will miraculously click with Edler by putting him out of position. You continue to ignore that point, how does that make any sense??

We can create cap space by dumping Ballard and Raymond alone without giving up an elite goalie for players who are similar to what we already are dumping. Sure Raymond doesn't have Kulemin's size, but that's the only difference I see.

No, I wouldn't trade Luongo for anything short than an offer that improves this team and addresses our needs. It's absurd that you would trade Luongo for spare parts.

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09-08-2012, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
The other thing about getting parts to round out the roster now is what it means for the future... Meaning, are these pieces going to supplement the current roster, or are they replacements.
A bit of both. Kulemin would likely replace a Mason Raymond and Gunnarsson would replace Keith Ballard. Kulemin may not significantly outproduce Raymond, though he does bring an additional 40lbs to the table. And Gunnarsson is the ideal Ballard replacement IMO because he won't put up enough points to warrant a big contract and he's shown he can play in the top 4 and play well. Considering how rarely the entire Canucks defense is in tact and the salary structure, he's a very good fit longterm in the #5 hole.

Kadri could be worth a look, though there doesn't appear to be a fit for him on the roster. If the Canucks have designs on Schroeder making the team, Kadri wouldn't be the guy you want on his wing. That's where Kulemin is the ideal fit with his size and strong defensive play.

Don't see Burke moving his 1st rd pick in any scenario involving Luongo. Especially before the season gets underway.

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09-08-2012, 08:05 PM
  #473
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The other thing about getting parts to round out the roster now is what it means for the future... Meaning, are these pieces going to supplement the current roster, or are they replacements.


Edler, Burrows, Higgins, Malhotra and Raymond etc... Are all up this year. If most of these guys are set to return, then I can see the Kulemins and the Gunnarson's being squeezed out anyways. However, if they are replacements, it changes the perception on the deal.


Personally, I think most of the people up for contract have bought in, so they are likely to re-sign. If they do, any redundant pieces brought in are that much more likely to be shed that much sooner. So it might not make sense over-stock on even more depth at this point in time.
I agree, it's not just about next yr - you have to think about the future and replacements etc. Burrows/Edler/Higgins are likely to resign. But a lot of the prospects are also likely to make the roster in 2013-14 (Lack, Connauton, Jensen, Schroeder and maybe Corrado). Kassian will likely be in a top 6 role then. That's a lot of young guys pushing for roster spots in the same year - and no space available.

Gillis is obviously aware of that and it's likely why he's stated he's only looking for specific players, and why he only targeted 6 specific players in the Hodgson trade. The only holes I can in the roster going forward are a center position and a top 6 winger position (for next season only).

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09-08-2012, 08:08 PM
  #474
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Again, Gunnarsson is a left side defenseman and you think some how he will miraculously click with Edler by putting him out of position. You continue to ignore that point, how does that make any sense??
Garrison is a left side, defensive defenseman just like Gunnarsson and the Canucks are hoping he clicks with Edler. Gunnarsson would just give the Canucks another option if Garrison doesn't find chemistry with Edler. If Gunnarsson finds a home next to Tanev on the bottom pairing, all the better.

I wouldn't trade Luongo for spare parts either if I thought the Canucks could get Gudbranson or Huberdeau in return. Unfortunately I have been paying attention to this situation.

You talk of dumping Keith Ballard but not of his replacement. I sure hope it's not Andrew Alberts you're thinking of. If the Canucks want to upgrade their forward corps it'll be a heck of a lot easier to do by shedding $3mil by replacing their #5 dman. And there isn't an in-house candidate to do that - hence the value of Gunnarsson.

Again, Leaf fans don't share your opinions of Kulemin and Gunnarsson and I can't say I do either. They're spare parts in the same way Jannik Hansen and Chris Tanev are for us. Championship teams all have 1 thing in common - excellent depth. This trade provides that in spades.

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09-08-2012, 08:23 PM
  #475
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Trading Luongo and not improving our team would be a disaster. I really don't understand how anyone can think that trading an elite player for spare parts is a good idea.
It's not a good idea.

The problem is that NOT trading him might well be an even WORSE idea.

There are no good options here.

 
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