So I take it from the fact that a page or so back people were saying Edmonton wouldn't give up Gagner and MPS for Luongo, that my initial suggestion that it'd be worth considering those two and Klefbom in a package was unrealistic?
Sure, of course.
That being said are there any real life developments to discuss? At this point is spitballing about potential trades (even if they're totally unrealistic) any less productive than the constant arguing about the Panthers, the Leafs, the 2011 playoffs and Roberto Luongo's legacy here?
The fact of the matter is that any time spent in this thread is a complete waste. We might as well waste our time on something relatively novel rather than rehashing the same discussions that have been going on for two months now.
There is a reason people consistently talk about the Panthers and the Leafs, because there is some basis to believe a deal could be made by those teams...Edmonton, not so much. I don't have any problem with spitballing, it's what we do here, but there are far more realistic options that don't get discussed as much...Chicago, Washington, possibly even Washington...far more reasonable than the Coilers.
I think Botch got the destinations wrong. Edmonton? Hahahahaha!
Toronto is laughable, too.
Teams that would pay something would only do so if there is a need. Philadelphia makes some sense if they really want to win a cup. Bryzgalov isn't the answer there, but I suspect Luongo isn't either.
Boston has had the luxery of a great tandem, easily the best in the conference. Thomas is doing stuff. Does Boston want to remain stacked in net?
no direct flights. i believe he would need to go via Atlanta or NYC from Edmonton. There are about a dozen flights a week direct to Ft lauderdale from Vancouver
On a side note, Luongos twitter account if freeking gold. He's funny, very personable and interactive. He shaps with some local bloggers/fans and follows their work, and has set up a fantasy football pool w/ followers.
This crazy Luongo fan (@M25xo) tweeted that she got a DM from Strombone1 wishing her a happy b-day (Link) That's pretty darn nice of him to do that. There aren't many (if any) NHLers with twitter accounts that are so interactive, and would DM a big fan a happy b-day wish.
With all the back and forth that has gone on with the Lu situation, I cannot fathom Burke's position... Or the logic behind it.
He trusts Nonis's opinion, and Nonis is bullish over Luongo. TO also has a need in goal. There aren't near any opportunities to acquire a goalie of Lu's calibre either... Yet, here we are. Burke is again having trouble understanding what to put forward for an asset...
You think it would be automatic. But not for Burke. The guy's history of evaluating goalie talent is horrid. But you would think that he would wake up and improve his team?
This is a very important deal for Gillis. And I have no doubt that he is putting a premium on the price (especially for Burke), but I have my doubts Burke is smart enough to even put an enticing package on the table. He just doesn't value the position, and even when he does, he targets the wrong solutions. To put it plainly, I have no faith that Burke is intelligent enough to procure a piece he needs.
Luongo would need to wave his NTC to go to Edmonton. Why would he do that? It's Edmonton, and his family lives in Florida? His wife and children are Florida weather type people. There is zero chance Luongo goes to Edmonton.
Have you been to Edmonton in the winter?
0% chance... LOL. Do divisional trades occur? Yes. Therefore, this too can occur. Is it likely? No. But then you are disregarding probabilities when you are saying there is no chance. I always find it funny when people say this.
Lu would waive for EDM if he insists on being a starter now and Gillis views the return to good to pass up. Simple as that really.
FLA seems the natural choice, but if they don't step up, then the entire field has to be considered... even Edmonton. If Lu wants to be a starter anywhere more than he wants to be a backup/tandem here, then that puts pressure on Gillis to explore _all_ his options. Not just those that are obviously easy to evaluate by the casual fan.
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I have concerns about the number of places Luongo would really play - even though he says all the right things publicly. Let us examine the facts: He is an 'older' player with an established family. Sure his wife and children will come to live in Vancouver during the hockey season. It's Vancouver, and has the best winter climate in Canada. These are Florida people. I don't see them living in Toronto or Edmonton, or any cold winter climate. And I don't see Luongo playing where his family would not go with him. This leaves M. Gillis only a few destinations for Luongo. NTC in a contract are not a good thing, under these circumstances. (The Burrows NTC could be an issue, but that's another topic.) Consequently, the limited market will equal a very limited return. Any talk of otherwise, is just that: talk.
I get the family pressure. If FLA had an urgent need in goal, Lu would be going there. Allowing everything to be resolved perfectly. Unfortunately, FLA isn't there...yet. So if a deal can't be worked out with Lu's prime destination, then every other destination must be explored... Including EDM.
The limited market isn't a detriment IMO. You can say it's just talk, but what you're saying is also just... talk. Amirite?
What's important is the need of the markets involved. Also, it's crucial that GMs in those markets understand what they are getting. Not every GM gets the value of a particular asset. For instance, Burke is "goalie stupid" IMO. We saw what Burke did here with the goaltending...it wasn't pretty. Not to mention what's been going on in TO...On the plus side, Nonis and Dudley are very aware of what a good goaltender looks like, and his inherent value. Hopefully, his more astute subordinates kick some sense into him.
But yeah, if FLA is off the table, every other team with interest is fair game. That could include EDM, TOR or other... Because at that point it matters more to Lu to start somewhere. If he'd rather just wait here longer to find a better home, then he Gillis can accommodate that as well.
With all the back and forth that has gone on with the Lu situation, I cannot fathom Burke's position... Or the logic behind it.
He trusts Nonis's opinion, and Nonis is bullish over Luongo. TO also has a need in goal. There aren't near any opportunities to acquire a goalie of Lu's calibre either... Yet, here we are. Burke is again having trouble understanding what to put forward for an asset...
You think it would be automatic. But not for Burke. The guy's history of evaluating goalie talent is horrid. But you would think that he would wake up and improve his team?
This is a very important deal for Gillis. And I have no doubt that he is putting a premium on the price (especially for Burke), but I have my doubts Burke is smart enough to even put an enticing package on the table. He just doesn't value the position, and even when he does, he targets the wrong solutions. To put it plainly, I have no faith that Burke is intelligent enough to procure a piece he needs.
Presumably he's waiting for the new CBA to be in place?
On a side note, Luongos twitter account if freeking gold. He's funny, very personable and interactive. He shaps with some local bloggers/fans and follows their work, and has set up a fantasy football pool w/ followers.
This crazy Luongo fan (@M25xo) tweeted that she got a DM from Strombone1 wishing her a happy b-day (Link) That's pretty darn nice of him to do that. There aren't many (if any) NHLers with twitter accounts that are so interactive, and would DM a big fan a happy b-day wish.
Is there actual evidence to support the Twitter account noted is Luongo? It's most likely not Luongo.
Presumably he's waiting for the new CBA to be in place?
I'm of the mind that had Burke put a strong enough package on the table at the draft, Lu would be a leaf right now. Burke just doesn't get it. He does not know how to evaluate goaltending.
Yes, the current CBA has stalled further negotiation. No doubt about it. But this could have been resolved prior to it becoming an issue.
The last guy Gillis is going to give Lu away to is Burke. They hate each other. Burke should have realized that before he made his first offer, and offered a package worth consideration. Sadly, I don't think he did. Because that would be only too logical. No one needs goaltending like the leafs. It's plain to see. Yet here we are?
Lu would waive for EDM if he insists on being a starter now and Gillis views the return to good to pass up. Simple as that really.
Have you been to Edmonton in the winter? There is zero chance he waves his NTC for there - ZERO
Luongo is a serious poker player, and he knows (in this game) he's holding the 'trump' card.
What cards do you think M. Gillis is holding? NONE.
Gillis is holding Lu's rights in his hands. Lu is currently under contract. As such, he is Canucks property. Therefore, he doesn't move until Gillis says so.
That said, the willingness to move anywhere, even EDM, comes down to Lu. You are right. His NTC is the veto. However, if he wants to start more than he wants to stay in VAN, then he'll have to go to a less than ideal (non-FLA) situation. Meaning, he'll have to expand his list. After that, everywhere is fair game if the package is good enough.
I'm of the mind that had Burke put a strong enough package on the table at the draft, Lu would be a leaf right now. Burke just doesn't get it. He does not know how to evaluate goaltending.
Yes, the current CBA has stalled further negotiation. No doubt about it. But this could have been resolved prior to it becoming an issue.
The last guy Gillis is going to give Lu away to is Burke. They hate each other. Burke should have realized that before he made his first offer, and offered a package worth consideration. Sadly, I don't think he did. Because that would be only too logical. No one needs goaltending like the leafs. It's plain to see. Yet here we are?
Your own GM openly admited he set the price to high. Unless it was Gardiner and the 5th overall, it wasn't going to happen....and that was to much for Toronto.
Your own GM openly admited he set the price to high. Unless it was Gardiner and the 5th overall, it wasn't going to happen....and that was to much for Toronto.
Gardiner _AND_ the 5th overall? Is this what Gillis was rumoured to be asking? Do you have a link?
The most I've seen floated around was Schenn and the 5th overall as the _asking_ price. Not the offering price.
Take all the "offers" with a gigantic grain of salt. People have started referring to them as factual, when in reality we have no idea what any offer was or if there even was one. Anyone that says anything different is blowing smoke out their butt.
Gardiner _AND_ the 5th overall? Is this what Gillis was rumoured to be asking? Do you have a link?
The most I've seen floated around was Schenn and the 5th overall as the _asking_ price. Not the offering price.
I'm not good at posting links here, but at the time of the draft, CBC-sportsnet and TSN were all reporting said "rumour". It doesn't make it true i know, but with Burke's interview of shock and Gillis' "i'm the problem" quotes, it doesn't seem to far fetched.
There is a reason people consistently talk about the Panthers and the Leafs, because there is some basis to believe a deal could be made by those teams...Edmonton, not so much. I don't have any problem with spitballing, it's what we do here, but there are far more realistic options that don't get discussed as much...Chicago, Washington, possibly even Washington...far more reasonable than the Coilers.
Sure, fair enough. Certainly the family element has to mean Luongo would have little interest in that city, even if he grew up idolizing Grant Fuhr and the team seems to be poised to improve significantly. And of course the Canucks would have to be committing highway robbery in any deal where they improved a divisional rival by such a huge amount. It's far from likely.
I know why people talk about the Panthers and the Leafs but I am bored of it. Less so with Chicago and Washington but it's still the same thing over and over again.
I'm not good at posting links here, but at the time of the draft, CBC-sportsnet and TSN were all reporting said "rumour". It doesn't make it true i know, but with Burke's interview of shock and Gillis' "i'm the problem" quotes, it doesn't seem to far fetched.
"I'm the problem" could be vocal rejection of marginal offers as well. There's no way to tell really.
I definitely saw the Schenn +/- 1st rumour though. That's something that was floating around at the time. And if MG didn't view Schenn as being something he wanted, then I can see him not taking that deal - especially when Galchenyuk was already off the board.
No. I still think it comes down to Burke continuing to devalue the position. He did the same when he was here. Nothing has changed.
"I'm the problem" could be vocal rejection of marginal offers as well. There's no way to tell really.
I definitely saw the Schenn +/- 1st rumour though. That's something that was floating around at the time. And if MG didn't view Schenn as being something he wanted, then I can see him not taking that deal - especially when Galchenyuk was already off the board.
No. I still think it comes down to Burke continuing to devalue the position. He did the same when he was here. Nothing has changed.
I did hear Schenn, didn't know it was plus a 1st though. You'd know Burke's history better than me i guess, although he did have some decent goaltending with the Ducks. I still think IF THERE IS A SEASON that Burke will be a player for Luongo.
I did hear Schenn, didn't know it was plus a 1st though. You'd know Burke's history better than me i guess, although he did have some decent goaltending with the Ducks. I still think IF THERE IS A SEASON that Burke will be a player for Luongo.
The goaltending was already in-house before Burke got there.
It just reminds me of his time in VAN all over again. He can make good deals. Build the team up. And leave the most crucial position to chance...? It's just mind-numbing. He should have gotten things done at the draft.
He's got to be more than a player liferleafer. He's got to get a deal done. There's no excuse. Not everyone hates the leafs. If they do well, it's good for the NHL. Plus I don't want Lu to fade away into relative obscurity. Which I fear may happen in FLA. Lu is exactly what TO needs, only Burke is too set in his ways to give up good value.
The goaltending was already in-house before Burke got there.
It just reminds me of his time in VAN all over again. He can make good deals. Build the team up. And leave the most crucial position to chance...? It's just mind-numbing. He should have gotten things done at the draft.
He's got to be more than a player liferleafer. He's got to get a deal done. There's no excuse. Not everyone hates the leafs. If they do well, it's good for the NHL. Plus I don't want Lu to fade away into relative obscurity. Which I fear may happen in FLA. Lu is exactly what TO needs, only Burke is too set in his ways to give up good value.
It all depends on what the return is. If Lu goes to Florida for Upshall + 2nd, then Burke is completely at fault. If he goes to Edmonton for Yakupov(I know, I know) then there's not much Burke could have done to beat that.
