HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Vancouver Canucks
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Luongo Thread - Scorcher 6: Global Meltdown (Mod Warning Post # 694)

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
09-25-2012, 11:52 AM
  #926
Liferleafer
RIP Mrs Doubtfire
 
Liferleafer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 9,351
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
The goaltending was already in-house before Burke got there.


It just reminds me of his time in VAN all over again. He can make good deals. Build the team up. And leave the most crucial position to chance...? It's just mind-numbing. He should have gotten things done at the draft.


He's got to be more than a player liferleafer. He's got to get a deal done. There's no excuse. Not everyone hates the leafs. If they do well, it's good for the NHL. Plus I don't want Lu to fade away into relative obscurity. Which I fear may happen in FLA. Lu is exactly what TO needs, only Burke is too set in his ways to give up good value.
And here in-lies the problem, the Leafs don't have the depth to give up what some feel is "good value". I'm pretty sure that he isn't going to deal the 1st, still feeling burned after the last time and then he got a PPG forward.

Liferleafer is offline  
Old
09-25-2012, 11:55 AM
  #927
Liferleafer
RIP Mrs Doubtfire
 
Liferleafer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 9,351
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
It all depends on what the return is. If Lu goes to Florida for Upshall + 2nd, then Burke is completely at fault. If he goes to Edmonton for Yakupov(I know, I know) then there's not much Burke could have done to beat that.
If he goes to FLA for that, and if the Schenn+ rumour was/is true, then Burke is still screwed. That would show Gillis has no intention of dealing Lu to Toronto.

Liferleafer is offline  
Old
09-25-2012, 11:57 AM
  #928
y2kcanucks
Cult of Personality
 
y2kcanucks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Surrey, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 46,448
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to y2kcanucks
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
If he goes to FLA for that, and if the Schenn+ rumour was/is true, then Burke is still screwed. That would show Gillis has no intention of dealing Lu to Toronto.
I would say Gillis would be more screwed than Burke if that were the case.

__________________
http://www.vancitynitetours.com
y2kcanucks is online now  
Old
09-25-2012, 12:10 PM
  #929
DJOpus
Registered User
 
DJOpus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,753
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
I did hear Schenn, didn't know it was plus a 1st though. You'd know Burke's history better than me i guess, although he did have some decent goaltending with the Ducks. I still think IF THERE IS A SEASON that Burke will be a player for Luongo.
My understanding of the rumor is that Burke offered Shenn, and Gillis wanted Schenn + the 5th overall.

That appears to remain to be Gillis' valuation and I hope he sticks to that high level.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
And here in-lies the problem, the Leafs don't have the depth to give up what some feel is "good value". I'm pretty sure that he isn't going to deal the 1st, still feeling burned after the last time and then he got a PPG forward.
I think the funny thing is, a good goalie does more to help you win than a PPG forward. Burke just did things in the wrong order, goalie first, then skaters...unless you can get Sidney Crosby and Evegeni Malkin (but even they went and got a goalie first).

DJOpus is offline  
Old
09-25-2012, 12:14 PM
  #930
Bleach Clean
Registered User
 
Bleach Clean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 15,299
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
And here in-lies the problem, the Leafs don't have the depth to give up what some feel is "good value". I'm pretty sure that he isn't going to deal the 1st, still feeling burned after the last time and then he got a PPG forward.

The 1st or Gardiner has to be involved. What incentive is there to do the deal if at least one of those pieces aren't there? None. None whatsoever. Especially to a team that has Burke as the GM...


You have to give to get. Everyone knows this. If he could have been had for pennies on the dollar, wouldn't he be gone already? Burke isn't going to get a break here. Not from Gillis. He either ponies up sufficient assets or he risks throwing away yet another season.


I'm hoping Nonis is talking some sense into him. At least he gets the need for a move like this. Burke... I doubt it.

Bleach Clean is offline  
Old
09-25-2012, 12:16 PM
  #931
Liferleafer
RIP Mrs Doubtfire
 
Liferleafer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 9,351
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
The 1st or Gardiner has to be involved. What incentive is there to do the deal if at least one of those pieces aren't there? None. None whatsoever. Especially to a team that has Burke as the GM...


You have to give to get. Everyone knows this. If he could have been had for pennies on the dollar, wouldn't he be gone already? Burke isn't going to get a break here. Not from Gillis. He either ponies up sufficient assets or he risks throwing away yet another season.


I'm hoping Nonis is talking some sense into him. At least he gets the need for a move like this. Burke... I doubt it.
If there is close to a full season, i have no issue with dealing the 1st. Gardiner for me is a no-go.

Liferleafer is offline  
Old
09-25-2012, 12:19 PM
  #932
Liferleafer
RIP Mrs Doubtfire
 
Liferleafer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 9,351
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJOpus View Post
My understanding of the rumor is that Burke offered Shenn, and Gillis wanted Schenn + the 5th overall.

That appears to remain to be Gillis' valuation and I hope he sticks to that high level.



I think the funny thing is, a good goalie does more to help you win than a PPG forward. Burke just did things in the wrong order, goalie first, then skaters...unless you can get Sidney Crosby and Evegeni Malkin (but even they went and got a goalie first).
I think it's safe to say that NO TEAM would deal a PPG forward for Luongo.

Liferleafer is offline  
Old
09-25-2012, 12:22 PM
  #933
Bleach Clean
Registered User
 
Bleach Clean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 15,299
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
If there is close to a full season, i have no issue with dealing the 1st. Gardiner for me is a no-go.

Fair enough. Now get on the phone with Burke.


Gardiner doesn't make sense here right now anyways. It would just be asset value.

Bleach Clean is offline  
Old
09-25-2012, 12:24 PM
  #934
DJOpus
Registered User
 
DJOpus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,753
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
I think it's safe to say that NO TEAM would deal a PPG forward for Luongo.
That wasn't my comment though.

Look at the Rangers. Replace Lundqvist with S. Mason and they finish 2nd last in the East. Replace Gaborik with Kulemin or Raymond and they still probably win the East.

DJOpus is offline  
Old
09-25-2012, 12:24 PM
  #935
Bleach Clean
Registered User
 
Bleach Clean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 15,299
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
I think it's safe to say that NO TEAM would deal a PPG forward for Luongo.

Likely not. However, DJOpus's logic is sound. For the leafs, goaltending probably has a bigger impact.

Bleach Clean is offline  
Old
09-25-2012, 12:34 PM
  #936
Liferleafer
RIP Mrs Doubtfire
 
Liferleafer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 9,351
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJOpus View Post
That wasn't my comment though.

Look at the Rangers. Replace Lundqvist with S. Mason and they finish 2nd last in the East. Replace Gaborik with Kulemin or Raymond and they still probably win the East.
My whole point was, Burke got a PPG forward and is still getting thrashed as making a horrible deal. Imagine, if you will, if Burke deals another top pick for Luongo. That could very well happen.

Liferleafer is offline  
Old
09-25-2012, 12:43 PM
  #937
DJOpus
Registered User
 
DJOpus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,753
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
My whole point was, Burke got a PPG forward and is still getting thrashed as making a horrible deal. Imagine, if you will, if Burke deals another top pick for Luongo. That could very well happen.
The difference is that Burke would get trashed out front (which I doubt) but the team would likely do better which would ultimately earn Burke a lot of praise.

If the Leafs made the playoffs after the Kessel trade, nobody would be saying a bad thing about the deal.

DJOpus is offline  
Old
09-25-2012, 12:43 PM
  #938
Bleach Clean
Registered User
 
Bleach Clean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 15,299
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
My whole point was, Burke got a PPG forward and is still getting thrashed as making a horrible deal. Imagine, if you will, if Burke deals another top pick for Luongo. That could very well happen.

GMs get thrashed all the time. Gillis still gets heat for the Ballard trade. He doesn't care. Burke is equally as defiant in the media.



Without that 1st, it's highly unlikely anything gets done. There has to be one prime asset a deal can be built around. If it's not Gardiner, odds are it has to be something just as good. Otherwise, what's the point?


But it wouldn't shock me if Burke had never gone there. He doesn't evaluate goaltending properly. Vintage Burke. In fact, I think I heard the leafs were interested in Bernier? Actually, I think that's a move Burke would make. It wouldn't cost him a prime asset and he still wouldn't have any assurances in net.

Bleach Clean is offline  
Old
09-25-2012, 12:57 PM
  #939
Scurr
Registered User
 
Scurr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Whalley
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,702
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
Without that 1st, it's highly unlikely anything gets done. There has to be one prime asset a deal can be built around. If it's not Gardiner, odds are it has to be something just as good. Otherwise, what's the point?
The Leafs can improve our team and prospect pool significantly without their 1st imo. We need a centre, and could still use some more competition for that #2 RW spot, the Leafs can offer some combination of both.

Scurr is offline  
Old
09-25-2012, 12:59 PM
  #940
KISSland
Registered User
 
KISSland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,682
vCash: 500
It will need to be a 1st from Toronto along with other pieces for me to consider a deal. A 1st is a must IMO.

1st, tweener, B type prospect is what I'd want minimum.

KISSland is offline  
Old
09-25-2012, 01:03 PM
  #941
Bleach Clean
Registered User
 
Bleach Clean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 15,299
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
The Leafs can improve our team and prospect pool significantly without their 1st imo. We need a centre, and could still use some more competition for that #2 RW spot, the Leafs can offer some combination of both.

You mean Grabovski and Kulemin? It wouldn't be Bozak because I'd sooner run with Schroeder.

Bleach Clean is offline  
Old
09-25-2012, 01:16 PM
  #942
Liferleafer
RIP Mrs Doubtfire
 
Liferleafer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 9,351
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
GMs get thrashed all the time. Gillis still gets heat for the Ballard trade. He doesn't care. Burke is equally as defiant in the media.



Without that 1st, it's highly unlikely anything gets done. There has to be one prime asset a deal can be built around. If it's not Gardiner, odds are it has to be something just as good. Otherwise, what's the point?


But it wouldn't shock me if Burke had never gone there. He doesn't evaluate goaltending properly. Vintage Burke. In fact, I think I heard the leafs were interested in Bernier? Actually, I think that's a move Burke would make. It wouldn't cost him a prime asset and he still wouldn't have any assurances in net.
Burke himself debunked this one. Said,and i'm paraphrasing, "we have 2 young goalies now, i'm not looking to add another goalie prospect".

Liferleafer is offline  
Old
09-25-2012, 01:19 PM
  #943
Liferleafer
RIP Mrs Doubtfire
 
Liferleafer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 9,351
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
GMs get thrashed all the time. Gillis still gets heat for the Ballard trade. He doesn't care. Burke is equally as defiant in the media.



Without that 1st, it's highly unlikely anything gets done. There has to be one prime asset a deal can be built around. If it's not Gardiner, odds are it has to be something just as good. Otherwise, what's the point?

But it wouldn't shock me if Burke had never gone there. He doesn't evaluate goaltending properly. Vintage Burke. In fact, I think I heard the leafs were interested in Bernier? Actually, I think that's a move Burke would make. It wouldn't cost him a prime asset and he still wouldn't have any assurances in net.
Not that i am one of the "Van HAS to trade Luongo so we will offer trash" guys, but, even you have to admit that both Gillis and Luongo are hoping something gets done. Both are saying all the right things, which is easy right now. But if the season gets going, i think things will get a little more testy.

Liferleafer is offline  
Old
09-25-2012, 01:25 PM
  #944
I in the Eye
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Country:
Posts: 4,176
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
But if the season gets going, i think things will get a little more testy.
I don't think it does... I think the media gets more testy... and the fans... but not the organization...

I remember early last season, Schneider gave an interview that said (something like) I'm ready for #1... then, not a peep the entire year... Granted, different personalities, different situations, but I think they could make it work a while longer...

Although, I agree, better for everyone if a team (that Luongo is willing to go to) pays Gillis' asking price sooner rather than later...

Toronto's 1st + (a Burke recycling of Kadri for Petrovic), and I'd be pretty content...

I in the Eye is offline  
Old
09-25-2012, 01:25 PM
  #945
blendini
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 436
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
My whole point was, Burke got a PPG forward and is still getting thrashed as making a horrible deal. Imagine, if you will, if Burke deals another top pick for Luongo. That could very well happen.
I'm certainly not a Luongo lover, but I think that if the Leafs had him in net they would make the playoffs. This would mean that their draft pick would be around 15-16 overall. Not that great a loss. They will have to give up something more to acquire Lu. I still think Kadri and Bozak would be a fair trade for both teams.

It will be a few years before the Leafs are a contending team. Lu will keep them in striking distance during this period and make them tons more $$$$. When they are ready to be contenders, Lu's contract will no longer be an issue. By then, the will have a better goalie to take over the #1 spot.

blendini is offline  
Old
09-25-2012, 02:20 PM
  #946
Scurr
Registered User
 
Scurr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Whalley
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,702
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
You mean Grabovski and Kulemin? It wouldn't be Bozak because I'd sooner run with Schroeder.
Schroeder is a fine prospect but we still don't have enough depth down the middle. Choosing Schroeder over Bozak without ever seeing him play in the league is a huge leap of faith. I don't love Bozak but he is an NHLer coming off an 18 goal season. If we could get Bozak and our pick of Leafs prospect (I like Kadri) that's a good deal imo.

Scurr is offline  
Old
09-25-2012, 02:44 PM
  #947
Vankiller Whale
Maybe HE can score
 
Vankiller Whale's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 24,364
vCash: 5555
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
Schroeder is a fine prospect but we still don't have enough depth down the middle. Choosing Schroeder over Bozak without ever seeing him play in the league is a huge leap of faith. I don't love Bozak but he is an NHLer coming off an 18 goal season. If we could get Bozak and our pick of Leafs prospect (I like Kadri) that's a good deal imo.
I'd rather have Kadri + 1st than Kadri + Bozak. If Connolly is thrown in for salary, then he can play a similar role to Bozak as a 2-3 line centre.

Vankiller Whale is online now  
Old
09-25-2012, 02:54 PM
  #948
DJOpus
Registered User
 
DJOpus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,753
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
I'd rather have Kadri + 1st than Kadri + Bozak. If Connolly is thrown in for salary, then he can play a similar role to Bozak as a 2-3 line centre.
I'd say why bother to either.

Neither gives us anything that useful and I think the shine has come off Kadri too much to move him for immediate help...

Colborne + Ashton + 1st, just so we can move Colborne + 1st (plus our 1st) at the deadline for real help (Perry or Getzlaf?).

Ashton and Colborne both have size which seems to be a focus in today's NHL.

DJOpus is offline  
Old
09-25-2012, 03:04 PM
  #949
Screw
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Peachland
Country: Canada
Posts: 36
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
And here in-lies the problem, the Leafs don't have the depth to give up what some feel is "good value". I'm pretty sure that he isn't going to deal the 1st, still feeling burned after the last time and then he got a PPG forward.
This is my assessment of the possibility of Toronto landing Lou. For them to pull off the trade would surely gut their team

Screw is offline  
Old
09-25-2012, 03:58 PM
  #950
Vankiller Whale
Maybe HE can score
 
Vankiller Whale's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 24,364
vCash: 5555
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJOpus View Post
I'd say why bother to either.

Neither gives us anything that useful and I think the shine has come off Kadri too much to move him for immediate help...

Colborne + Ashton + 1st, just so we can move Colborne + 1st (plus our 1st) at the deadline for real help (Perry or Getzlaf?).

Ashton and Colborne both have size which seems to be a focus in today's NHL.
Ashton's upside is a third liner. Colborne is big, but he's not at all physical. I'd say Kadri plays a grittier game, and he also plays wing. He's also more of a playmaker, making him a better fit with Kesler/Booth.

Vankiller Whale is online now  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:34 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.