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Luongo Thread - Scorcher 6: Global Meltdown (Mod Warning Post # 694)

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09-25-2012, 04:34 PM
  #951
CanuckLuck
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Ashton's upside is a third liner. Colborne is big, but he's not at all physical. I'd say Kadri plays a grittier game, and he also plays wing. He's also more of a playmaker, making him a better fit with Kesler/Booth.
Agreed. Not sure why so many fans think Kadri would be a bad fit. Think he's goign to break-out for the Leafs soon.

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09-25-2012, 04:36 PM
  #952
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Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
Schroeder is a fine prospect but we still don't have enough depth down the middle. Choosing Schroeder over Bozak without ever seeing him play in the league is a huge leap of faith. I don't love Bozak but he is an NHLer coming off an 18 goal season. If we could get Bozak and our pick of Leafs prospect (I like Kadri) that's a good deal imo.

With Schroeder and Kesler returning, the Canucks would have 5 C's down the middle. That's enough depth.


I have zero interest in Bozak. You just know that he is a placeholder for something better. Long-term, he's not a solution to the bottom6. And in the top6... Well yah, he's not playing above Kesler and H.Sedin. I'd rather see what we have in Schroeder.

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09-25-2012, 05:40 PM
  #953
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Originally Posted by CanuckLuck View Post
Agreed. Not sure why so many fans think Kadri would be a bad fit. Think he's goign to break-out for the Leafs soon.
We're a contender, I don't want to depend on mid-tier rookies in key roles.

The reason I'd rather get Colborne and Ashton over Kadri is because I think big physical players have higher trade values then smaller skilled guys and the only reason I'd want anything (save for Kessel) from Toronto is to move it for an asset we really need, either in a three-way trade or later in the season.

The idea of having a big centre with skill is a lot more attractive than a small feisty skilled winger to me and I think that would hold true accross the NHL.

I could honestly see Colbrone + our 1st + TO's 1st fetching Perry/Getzlaf/Plekanec/etc. at the trade deadline. The idea of trading Luongo + our 1st for one of those assets is attractive to me...keeping anything that we get from Toronto (like Ashton) is just a bonus.

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09-25-2012, 05:44 PM
  #954
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Originally Posted by DJOpus View Post
We're a contender, I don't want to depend on mid-tier rookies in key roles.

The reason I'd rather get Colborne and Ashton over Kadri is because I think big physical players have higher trade values then smaller skilled guys and the only reason I'd want anything (save for Kessel) from Toronto is to move it for an asset we really need, either in a three-way trade or later in the season.

The idea of having a big centre with skill is a lot more attractive than a small feisty skilled winger to me and I think that would hold true accross the NHL.

I could honestly see Colbrone + our 1st + TO's 1st fetching Perry/Getzlaf/Plekanec/etc. at the trade deadline. The idea of trading Luongo + our 1st for one of those assets is attractive to me...keeping anything that we get from Toronto (like Ashton) is just a bonus.
Colborne isn't physical, just big. And with Gaunce and Schroeder in the system we don't really need him. Kadri has a higher upside and can contribute now(how much remains to be seen).

At the deadline we can reevaluate and see if it's worth sending a big futures package for Perry/etc.

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09-25-2012, 06:04 PM
  #955
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Colborne is progressing at a glacial pace. Ashton is meh. I get that size is a priority, but Kadri has done more at a younger age.


Normally, you favour size. However, in this instance, you would sacrifice something in the trade off. Kadri is progressing at a better rate than either of the bigger TO forwards.

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09-25-2012, 06:55 PM
  #956
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Originally Posted by DJOpus View Post
We're a contender, I don't want to depend on mid-tier rookies in key roles.

The reason I'd rather get Colborne and Ashton over Kadri is because I think big physical players have higher trade values then smaller skilled guys and the only reason I'd want anything (save for Kessel) from Toronto is to move it for an asset we really need, either in a three-way trade or later in the season.

The idea of having a big centre with skill is a lot more attractive than a small feisty skilled winger to me and I think that would hold true accross the NHL.

I could honestly see Colbrone + our 1st + TO's 1st fetching Perry/Getzlaf/Plekanec/etc. at the trade deadline. The idea of trading Luongo + our 1st for one of those assets is attractive to me...keeping anything that we get from Toronto (like Ashton) is just a bonus.

I would normally agree with you, except for the fact that Ashton and Colbourne are mid-level prospect where as Kadri is high-end. Kadri's ceiling is much higher and I think there's a much better chance he'll make the NHL.

Outside of gardiner and Rielly (whom are untouchable), I can't think of a prospect on Toronto's roster that would be worth trading Luongo for as part of a package.

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09-25-2012, 09:46 PM
  #957
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Originally Posted by CanuckLuck View Post
I would normally agree with you, except for the fact that Ashton and Colbourne are mid-level prospect where as Kadri is high-end. Kadri's ceiling is much higher and I think there's a much better chance he'll make the NHL.

Outside of gardiner and Rielly (whom are untouchable), I can't think of a prospect on Toronto's roster that would be worth trading Luongo for as part of a package.
Fair enough, I only want assets from Toronto that I can trade for good value later. In all honesty, I don't find Kadri that compelling but he might be the best of the worst.

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09-25-2012, 09:53 PM
  #958
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Originally Posted by DJOpus View Post
Fair enough, I only want assets from Toronto that I can trade for good value later. In all honesty, I don't find Kadri that compelling but he might be the best of the worst.
How can you guarantee that we could get someone like Ryan Getzlaf for Toronto's crap? Just because people want to give Luongo away doesn't mean other GM's are as eager to give their stars away. I guess it's easy to forget...

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Old
09-25-2012, 10:07 PM
  #959
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
How can you guarantee that we could get someone like Ryan Getzlaf for Toronto's crap? Just because people want to give Luongo away doesn't mean other GM's are as eager to give their stars away. I guess it's easy to forget...
A 1st round pick is always valuable in acquiring rental stars at the deadline(Corey Perry is my unrealistic hope at the moment). And Kadri isn't garbage. He's the one player the Leafs haven't rushed in attempt to look better immediately, and he gets flak for "not being able to crack their roster." He's looked fine in the time he's been called up. He certainly has more skill than any of our current prospects.

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09-25-2012, 10:09 PM
  #960
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Luongo, Raymond for 1st, Kadri, Kulemin

VAN 1st, Kulemin, Kadri, Jensen for Getzlaf.

Sedins Burrows
Booth Getzlaf Kesler

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09-25-2012, 10:11 PM
  #961
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Originally Posted by Figz14 View Post
Luongo, Raymond for 1st, Kadri, Kulemin

VAN 1st, Kulemin, Kadri, Jensen for Perry.

Sedins Burrows
Booth Getzlaf Kesler
Fixed. Why wouldn't we go after the natural RW as opposed to the centre?

Although if Jensen continues tearing it up I would be loathe to part with him.

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09-25-2012, 10:17 PM
  #962
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Fixed. Why wouldn't we go after the natural RW as opposed to the centre?

Although if Jensen continues tearing it up I would be loathe to part with him.
I just like the depth of having another center if Kesler needs to replace Getzlaf or vice versa.

But anyways in my proposal you have a 1st, 2/3rd line player, and two a/b type prospects for a star rental which I think will be the asking price.

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09-25-2012, 10:37 PM
  #963
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Originally Posted by Figz14 View Post
I just like the depth of having another center if Kesler needs to replace Getzlaf or vice versa.

But anyways in my proposal you have a 1st, 2/3rd line player, and two a/b type prospects for a star rental which I think will be the asking price.
I actually think it's minor overpayment. Swap Jensen or Kadri with a B prospect(as both are A in my opinion) and hopefully it would be enough.

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09-25-2012, 11:56 PM
  #964
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Originally Posted by DJOpus View Post
Fair enough, I only want assets from Toronto that I can trade for good value later. In all honesty, I don't find Kadri that compelling but he might be the best of the worst.
Having watched the Leafs some. I honestly find Kadri's biggest hurdle was Wilson. Not only did they have unrealistic expectations too early but Wilson's system literally had no defense. We may play a high tempo offense game but the Leafs were frankly, a one way rocket. Kadri would have a much better core and not be relied upon as heavily.

I do agree. We need a first coming back, despite what many Leaf fans might say about trading it.

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09-26-2012, 12:04 AM
  #965
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Originally Posted by Figz14 View Post
Luongo, Raymond for 1st, Kadri, Kulemin

VAN 1st, Kulemin, Kadri, Jensen for Getzlaf.

Sedins Burrows
Booth Getzlaf Kesler
I'm not sure what we'd have to give up but we'd probably have an edge with two firsts to move in one deal.

I'd like Getzlaf to have three solid offensive lines:

Sedin - Sedin - Burrows
Higgins - Getzlaf - Booth
Raymond - Kesler - Hansen

Should give us three solid offensive production and two good matchup lines.

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09-26-2012, 12:11 AM
  #966
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Originally Posted by DJOpus View Post
I'm not sure what we'd have to give up but we'd probably have an edge with two firsts to move in one deal.

I'd like Getzlaf to have three solid offensive lines:

Sedin - Sedin - Burrows
Higgins - Getzlaf - Booth
Raymond - Kesler - Hansen

Should give us three solid offensive production and two good matchup lines.
From what I've heard, Getzlaf has settled down with his family and has spoken openly about how he wants to stay, while Perry has been quiet...too quiet.

I think Perry is the better player too.

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09-26-2012, 12:18 AM
  #967
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
How can you guarantee that we could get someone like Ryan Getzlaf for Toronto's crap? Just because people want to give Luongo away doesn't mean other GM's are as eager to give their stars away. I guess it's easy to forget...
My point was that we shouldn't trade Luongo for crap, we should hold out for good young assets to move at the deadline for real help which should definitely include a first.

For the record, McKeens rates Kadri as a solid player (predicting 31 points in 58 games), Colborne close to Jensen (6 spots behind, 21 spots ahead of Gaunce), and Ashton close to Gaunce (8 spots behind at 79, no other Canucks within the top 120 skaters). This is probably a good indication of the general consensus and thus a good indication of trade value.

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09-26-2012, 12:20 AM
  #968
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
From what I've heard, Getzlaf has settled down with his family and has spoken openly about how he wants to stay, while Perry has been quiet...too quiet.

I think Perry is the better player too.
Let's be honest, I'd take whichever I could get. I like Perry too, he's a winner.

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09-26-2012, 09:09 AM
  #969
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Eww Getzlaf. No thanks. I dont see him going anywhere but down.

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09-26-2012, 10:13 AM
  #970
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Figz14 View Post
Luongo, Raymond for 1st, Kadri, Kulemin

VAN 1st, Kulemin, Kadri, Jensen for Getzlaf.

Sedins Burrows
Booth Getzlaf Kesler
Why wouldn't the Leafs just trade Kuli,Kadri our 1st and a b prospect for Getzlaf if that is all it would take?
I would like Luongo, but if the same package could land Getzlaf.....well Getzlaf it is.


Last edited by Liferleafer: 09-26-2012 at 10:35 AM.
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09-26-2012, 10:39 AM
  #971
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Originally Posted by Moe Szyslak View Post
Eww Getzlaf. No thanks. I dont see him going anywhere but down.
Which begs the question which do you see dissapearing faster? Getzlaf's hair or stardom?

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09-26-2012, 10:59 AM
  #972
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
A 1st round pick is always valuable in acquiring rental stars at the deadline(Corey Perry is my unrealistic hope at the moment). And Kadri isn't garbage. He's the one player the Leafs haven't rushed in attempt to look better immediately, and he gets flak for "not being able to crack their roster." He's looked fine in the time he's been called up. He certainly has more skill than any of our current prospects.
Disagree. I remember one year Burke acquired an additional 1st round pick for Anaheim in exchange for a young Shane O'Brien (yeah, who knew?) but wasn't able to trade it away and get anything for it. Just because we acquire a 1st round pick doesn't mean it will be worth anything significant at the deadline.

Although, if somehow the Leafs still remained a lottery team, there are some nice prospects I would like (MacKinnon, Jones, Monahan, Shinkaruk, Lazar, Rychel, Drouin), but I would feel more comfortable if this deal happened at the deadline where Toronto doesn't get a full season out of Luongo to boost their standing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DJOpus View Post
My point was that we shouldn't trade Luongo for crap, we should hold out for good young assets to move at the deadline for real help which should definitely include a first.

For the record, McKeens rates Kadri as a solid player (predicting 31 points in 58 games), Colborne close to Jensen (6 spots behind, 21 spots ahead of Gaunce), and Ashton close to Gaunce (8 spots behind at 79, no other Canucks within the top 120 skaters). This is probably a good indication of the general consensus and thus a good indication of trade value.
I'm honestly not a fan of Kadri, Colborne, or Ashton. I don't mind the latter two because they have size, but I don't see guaranteed top 6 forwards in any of them. I see second line material as being all of their ceilings, while Colborne and Ashton have a floor that's probably as a third liner, and Kadri may never even make the NHL on a consistent basis.

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09-26-2012, 11:45 AM
  #973
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Basically there are 7 kinds of returns the Canucks could get for Luongo or Luongo +:

1 a top top 6 forward - ideal but highly unlikely

2 a tweener top 6 forward (ex. Booth) - no point

3 a solid two way forward (ex Kulemin) - no point, team is stacked already (Hansen/Lapierre, Higgins/Raymond)

4 3rd line center - mostly just in case value. also see point 3. + Schroeder/Malhotra.

5 RHD - of value as organization is thin here.

6 high draft picks - valuable but by the time they start contributing...

7 young F prospects with top 6 potential - best bet. Given the team's current assets, its better to have 4 prospects with 25% chance of becoming a legit top 6 than 4 two way forwards with none. And if they become a top 6, they'll more than likely do so very soon which fits right in with win now.

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09-26-2012, 12:00 PM
  #974
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
Why wouldn't the Leafs just trade Kuli,Kadri our 1st and a b prospect for Getzlaf if that is all it would take?
I would like Luongo, but if the same package could land Getzlaf.....well Getzlaf it is.
A few things here..

Luongo is available.
Is Getzlaf even available?
Would Getzlaf be interested to move to Toronto?
Will Ducks be sellers?

Most of these things can be said about the Canucks, but that was just a proposal. I'm not banking on landing Getzlaf, I think another player would make more sense contract wise. Just wishful thinking.

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09-26-2012, 12:00 PM
  #975
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Originally Posted by Outside99 View Post
Basically there are 7 kinds of returns the Canucks could get for Luongo or Luongo +:

1 a top top 6 forward - ideal but highly unlikely

2 a tweener top 6 forward (ex. Booth) - no point

3 a solid two way forward (ex Kulemin) - no point, team is stacked already (Hansen/Lapierre, Higgins/Raymond)

4 3rd line center - mostly just in case value. also see point 3. + Schroeder/Malhotra.

5 RHD - of value as organization is thin here.

6 high draft picks - valuable but by the time they start contributing...

7 young F prospects with top 6 potential - best bet. Given the team's current assets, its better to have 4 prospects with 25% chance of becoming a legit top 6 than 4 two way forwards with none. And if they become a top 6, they'll more than likely do so very soon which fits right in with win now.
So, you're saying that we should ask something like Kadri/Colborne/Ashton + Jesse Blacker + salary dump + pick?

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