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TNSE lease of the Icecaps to St J. How does it work?

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08-04-2012, 11:59 AM
  #1
DEANYOUNGBLOOD17
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TNSE lease of the Icecaps to St J. How does it work?

The Ice caps were a great success on and off the ice last year.

Estimated revenue

- They had 40 plus sellouts including playoffs at an average ticket price at say $25x 6000 seats =$150 k x 40= 6 million approx
- team store Jerseys ect

-Estimated operating costs

- Players base AHL salaries approx 2million
- coaches ,Ahl management cost , trainers cost, arena staff costs
- Travel costs - the highest in the ahl including subsidies to incoming Ahl teams comming to St Johns
- Arena lease in St John?--- Cost to Ice caps?---- But who gets Concession money?
St johns allows TNSE to run all hockey operations with HeiZinger as Gm of operations


My question is how does the financials work? Is this a cash cow for TNSE? or a cash cow for Ice Cap Leasee? Is it a Cah cow for the owner of the Arena? I know its a private buissness and all the details are not disclosed, but if one were to speculate.

1)Does TNSE get a lump some payment every year for the lease of the team?
2) does TNSE get a % of the gate?
3) do the Jets pay all sallaries of the players on nhl contracts or does that come out of ticket revenue?

I think the JETS/ Icecap relationship is perfect for both sides and for the development of the players... but who is profiting most $ wise from this arrangement?

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08-04-2012, 12:59 PM
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If there is a lockout next season, I think they come to Winnipeg for 12 games or less, we have the rights to them pretty much, but it will be like the Bsens coming to Ottawa and the Bulldogs coming to Montreal, plus the Icecaps were the Moose at one point.

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08-04-2012, 01:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingJet View Post
If there is a lockout next season, I think they come to Winnipeg for 12 games or less, we have the rights to them pretty much, but it will be like the Bsens coming to Ottawa and the Bulldogs coming to Montreal, plus the Icecaps were the Moose at one point.
Lease is a contractual obligation. They wouldn't come to Winnipeg, especially since the season's schedule is already out

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08-04-2012, 03:34 PM
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Holden Caulfield
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1/2) St. John's pays a lump sum agreement to TNSE as far as I know, that is how it works with most AHL teams. I really doubt TNSE gets a cut of tickets or concessions.

3) Yes, the Jets pay all salaries for players under contract with them. This is why St. John's pays a fee to TNSE, they have next to no salary commitments (outside of the few AHL contracts they had like DeSantis, Albert, Rosa, King) for the players and even hockey ops is TNSE run, therefore TNSE paid.

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08-04-2012, 04:38 PM
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DEANYOUNGBLOOD17
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to clarify..... I believe TNSE owns the team ....meaning they paid franchise fee to belong to the ahl and operate in the AHL and that is what they are leasing to Danny williams group for an unspecified amount... included or in addition to this lease would probably be the standard affiliation agreement that has the Jets guarantee to supply a specified # of players.

Q...... What is the standard affiliation agreement look like. just currious on how the operation is run...

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08-05-2012, 08:16 PM
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Canadienjet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingJet View Post
If there is a lockout next season, I think they come to Winnipeg for 12 games or less, we have the rights to them pretty much, but it will be like the Bsens coming to Ottawa and the Bulldogs coming to Montreal, plus the Icecaps were the Moose at one point.
You brought this idea up in multiple threads,mind if I ask why?You make it seem like we do not deserve the team.

If there is a lockout I dont think ti will be very long.We went three years without any team what so ever.


Last edited by Canadienjet: 08-05-2012 at 08:24 PM.
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08-05-2012, 08:44 PM
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Reed Solomon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadienjet View Post
You brought this idea up in multiple threads,mind if I ask why?You make it seem like we do not deserve the team.

If there is a lockout I dont think ti will be very long.We went three years without any team what so ever.
I don't think the Moose played any games in Vancouver during the last strike/lockout so the Icecaps probably won't play in Winnipeg either.

Nor should they. Perhaps there won't be a strike or lockout.

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08-12-2012, 12:02 PM
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I think if Winnipeg takes any games on St.John's it will do more harm then good to the relationship.St.John's has all 38 games sold out basically next year now your just gonna take so many.1 suggested 12,as a season ticket holder,if True North takes 12 why not take all the games cause losing 12 home games will piss much the fan base off

I dont see it happening and its no offence to Winnipeg but the AHL and travel would be a nightmare cause we dont play any teams near Winnipeg.Abbotsford we wont play,and Toronto they want to come here as its a big draw.If any games are moved to Winnipeg with the teams Icecaps play,it would be pretty costly travel wise and a real pain for both teams playing

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08-12-2012, 12:06 PM
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There wont be any ice cap games in winnipeg
Book it

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08-12-2012, 12:50 PM
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garret9
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Kingjet tends to comment even on the main boards:
*Lockout will happen next year
*IceCaps will play at MTS if the lock out happens
*Jets won't do well next year if there isn't a lock out

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08-12-2012, 01:06 PM
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thats fine if they wanna tAKE GAMES ON THE iCECAPS,IN ALL HONESTY IT SEEMS TO BE A HUGH WASTE OF MONEY,to what get 8000-9000 as compared to 6287 at Mile One.

This anit to sell Jets fans short,but a lot of the Jets 15000 season ticket base ness were not Moose fans,and add in the fact the Moose are in Chicago.I mean Winnipeg has great fans but i dont see you selling out for a Icecaps game,yes i know if theirs a lock out you will have no hockey,even with the Jets gone Moose could not get 15000.Fact is seems to be a big pain for the AHL to move a sked a pair of games up in Winnipeg,no where near any opponents the Icecaps play,its not like St.John's plays in the West,most are oponents are east.Toronto you can forget Icecaps want the Marlies to play in St.John's and the Bulldogs same thing.All it will do is piss fans off here and believe me their a fickle bunch in St.John's once ticked they wont return

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08-12-2012, 01:42 PM
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I don't think anyone other than that one kid actual thinks or wants the IceCaps to play at MTS instead of St Johns.
I don't think you have to worry.

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08-12-2012, 03:13 PM
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If we lose 12 games I hope we will be refunded.This could sour a good relationship.

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08-12-2012, 03:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garret9 View Post
Kingjet tends to comment even on the main boards:
*Lockout will happen next year
*IceCaps will play at MTS if the lock out happens
*Jets won't do well next year if there isn't a lock out
Hate hate hate, meh, I'm not hating, but the Bulldogs play in Bell Centre here and there, Bsens play in Ottawa here and there, Abbotsford plays in Calgary here and there, which makes me think its possible the Icecaps could play here, plus True North owns their rights. But the Jets won't do well too, we do have a good team, slightly ready, but not just about, also, Jokinen is legit a regular season choker, and never makes the playoffs with the first team he plays with. I just said a Lockout would be a wee bit good, we can all get a bit of a rest from it, or at least half the season, plus it might make our players develop a little better.

So stop hating, I'm not hating, its what I think, everyone expresses their opinion, Jets are my favourite team, so clearing that Icecaps situation, I meant like a few, its different, its our prospects and we get a taste, just like those other few teams, we aren't cheering for Vancouver.

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08-12-2012, 03:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingJet View Post
the Bulldogs play in Bell Centre here and there, Bsens play in Ottawa here and there, Abbotsford plays in Calgary here and there, which makes me think its possible the Icecaps could play here, plus True North owns their rights.
Can you offer any proof of this? I have NEVER heard of anything like this. Because it makes no sense. At all.

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08-12-2012, 03:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingJet View Post
Hate hate hate, meh, I'm not hating, but the Bulldogs play in Bell Centre here and there, Bsens play in Ottawa here and there, Abbotsford plays in Calgary here and there, which makes me think its possible the Icecaps could play here, plus True North owns their rights. But the Jets won't do well too, we do have a good team, slightly ready, but not just about, also, Jokinen is legit a regular season choker, and never makes the playoffs with the first team he plays with. I just said a Lockout would be a wee bit good, we can all get a bit of a rest from it, or at least half the season, plus it might make our players develop a little better.

So stop hating, I'm not hating, its what I think, everyone expresses their opinion, Jets are my favourite team, so clearing that Icecaps situation, I meant like a few, its different, its our prospects and we get a taste, just like those other few teams, we aren't cheering for Vancouver.
It literally cannot happen. They had a 3 year obligation if you wanted to get season tickets, they cannot move the team in the middle of a contract. Teams that play in a different stadium, such as Bingo in Ottawa, have those games scheduled prior to the season starting, they don't just up and go play a game when they want to.

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08-12-2012, 04:04 PM
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Hank Chinaski
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
Can you offer any proof of this? I have NEVER heard of anything like this. Because it makes no sense. At all.
Going off the AHL site, it looks like 2011-12 featured:

-Abbotsford playing 1 game at the Saddledome (Feb. 9 vs. Oklahoma City)
-Binghamton playing 1 game at Scotiabank Place (Nov. 13 vs. Hamilton)
-Hamilton playing 1 game at Bell Centre (Nov. 18 vs. Binghamton)

KingJet, can you provide any other dates where the aforementioned AHL teams played at the NHL parent club's arena? Because this hardly constitutes "here and there", but rather a one-off thing.

Perhaps the IceCaps will play 1 game at MTSC during a western road swing, but the idea that they'd play 11 here defies all logic.

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08-12-2012, 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski View Post
Going off the AHL site, it looks like 2011-12 featured:

-Abbotsford playing 1 game at the Saddledome (Feb. 9 vs. Oklahoma City)
-Binghamton playing 1 game at Scotiabank Place (Nov. 13 vs. Hamilton)
-Hamilton playing 1 game at Bell Centre (Nov. 18 vs. Binghamton)

KingJet, can you provide any other dates where the aforementioned AHL teams played at the NHL parent club's arena? Because this hardly constitutes "here and there", but rather a one-off thing.

Perhaps the IceCaps will play 1 game at MTSC during a western road swing, but the idea that they'd play 11 here defies all logic.
http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=618904

make that two for Hamilton, oh and Toronto... yeah they have an AHL team, but if there was a lockout they would move the Marlies to the ACC, but yeah, I meant like once in a while they come there to play.

But would love to see the Icecaps at MTSC for like one or two games if their going to play... like the Barons, Heat, Aeros or Marlies. I mean their more attractive than the Moose overall, plus they have our prospects and why do you think Abbotsford only sold out when the Moose played there.

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08-12-2012, 04:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski View Post
Going off the AHL site, it looks like 2011-12 featured:

-Abbotsford playing 1 game at the Saddledome (Feb. 9 vs. Oklahoma City)
-Binghamton playing 1 game at Scotiabank Place (Nov. 13 vs. Hamilton)
-Hamilton playing 1 game at Bell Centre (Nov. 18 vs. Binghamton)

KingJet, can you provide any other dates where the aforementioned AHL teams played at the NHL parent club's arena? Because this hardly constitutes "here and there", but rather a one-off thing.

Perhaps the IceCaps will play 1 game at MTSC during a western road swing, but the idea that they'd play 11 here defies all logic.
Hmm. Interesting. Still doesn't make sense to me and is disrespectful to the AHL city, IMO. But whatever. I still really really really doubt IceCaps will play any games in WPG.

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08-12-2012, 05:03 PM
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First Post

http://www.winnipegsun.com/2012/08/1...ckout-well-see
I read this Winnipeg Sun article that talks about the possiblity of the Icecaps playing in Winnipeg.

P.S. This is my first post.


Last edited by EastRiver: 08-12-2012 at 05:05 PM. Reason: Forgot the link.
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08-12-2012, 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by EastRiver View Post
http://www.winnipegsun.com/2012/08/1...ckout-well-see
I read this Winnipeg Sun article that talks about the possiblity of the Icecaps playing in Winnipeg.

P.S. This is my first post.
Welcome to the hen house EastRiver!

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08-12-2012, 06:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski View Post
Going off the AHL site, it looks like 2011-12 featured:

-Abbotsford playing 1 game at the Saddledome (Feb. 9 vs. Oklahoma City)
-Binghamton playing 1 game at Scotiabank Place (Nov. 13 vs. Hamilton)
-Hamilton playing 1 game at Bell Centre (Nov. 18 vs. Binghamton)

KingJet, can you provide any other dates where the aforementioned AHL teams played at the NHL parent club's arena? Because this hardly constitutes "here and there", but rather a one-off thing.

Perhaps the IceCaps will play 1 game at MTSC during a western road swing, but the idea that they'd play 11 here defies all logic.
Those games were all sked before,plus Hamilton,Bigo and Abbotsford don't draw well so its easy to move.Toronto playing at ACC anit the same as moving games to Winnipeg.Kingjet St.John's don't have a west coast swing we don't play the west coast teams becides marlies,and their a big draw here

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08-12-2012, 10:28 PM
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garret9
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According to the article on the Sun it would be for "a few exhibition games".
Again, a lease is a contractual agreemant, so the chances of them pulling away from a game purchased by a STH at St John's is nill.
The games above are pre-decided games as part of their individual deals between those teams.

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08-13-2012, 07:33 AM
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http://www.thetelegram.com/Sports/20...urs-Stanford/1

No regular season or pre season games at MTS.

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08-13-2012, 07:55 AM
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King Woodballs
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You also have to take into account the distance between all those cities
They are all relativley close to each other.
Wpg & StJ's are not the closest cities to each other

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