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Pronger vs Lidstrom

View Poll Results: Pronger or Lidstrom for a cup run?
Pronger 76 46.63%
Lidstrom 83 50.92%
Can't decide 4 2.45%
Voters: 163. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
08-21-2012, 10:35 AM
  #51
Le Magnifique 66
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Very very close, I prefer Lidstrom's game but you can't really go wrong with either

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Old
08-21-2012, 12:50 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ignatius View Post
When I bring up 2006 and 2007 I do so to make the point that Norris winner Lidstrom's stacked Red Wings teams go booted out of the playoffs by Pronger's teams. I will not disagree that the 2007 Ducks were stacked, but what about the 2006 Oilers? Do you remember that team that embarrassed Norris winner Nik Lidstrom's President's Trophy winning Detroit Red Wings team as an #8 seed? That team that kicked their heavily favored ***** out of the playoffs in 6 games in the first round?

That ultimate underdog team, lead by Pronger, that went 7 games in the SCF? Let's not mention them in the arguement, lets bring up the 2007 Ducks

Umm you are the one who brought up the 2007 Ducks as an example.... not I. I was pointing out how your logic was unfair by using that year as an example to compare to Lidstrom because you resorted to the "stacked teams" argument.


Last edited by ashenhigh: 08-21-2012 at 01:03 PM.
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Old
08-21-2012, 12:59 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhillyBluesFan View Post
Pronger was and always has been the superior defensemen its a shame the idiotic voters robbed him of at least 3 Norris awards. While they continued to gift them to Lidstrom over Chara, Stevens and Pronger
Well I wouldn't call the Professional Hockey Writers Association and bunch of idiots but I would agree they have gotten some wrong.

2011 Norris probably should have gone to Chara or Weber but thats it. Lidstrom deserved winning his other 6 awards.

Also, why Scott Stevens? Stevens had played 17 NHL seasons before Lidstrom was even a Norris finalist.... Stevens' Norris competition was not Lidstrom, as Lidstrom started to win his Norris Trophies in the twilight of Stevens' career.

Pronger was wretched and vile though


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08-21-2012, 01:14 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Lidstrom. Prime Pronger is still at risk for getting suspended in the playoffs
This is true. At minimum, there's going to be penalties to kill due to his aggressive physical style.

To me, it depends on the team. If it's one of the favorites which needs someone to help drive the special teams and not can't afford big mistakes at critical times, I'd take Lidstrom. If it's a middle of the road team or an underdog, I think Pronger could make more impact (pun intended).

I vote Pronger, because I think more teams would have a better chance with him.

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Old
08-21-2012, 02:14 PM
  #55
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Pronger's first season with the Oilers, Stanley cup final game 7.
Pronger's first season with the Ducks Stanley Cup Champion.
Pronger's first season with the with the Flyers Stanley cup final game 6.

Pronger was just that great, he barley played for an elite team, unlike Lidstrom who played for an elite team since he came to the league.

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08-21-2012, 03:08 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhillyBluesFan View Post
Pronger was and always has been the superior defensemen its a shame the idiotic voters robbed him of at least 3 Norris awards. While they continued to gift them to Lidstrom over Chara, Stevens and Pronger

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08-21-2012, 03:17 PM
  #57
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Big physical two way defender ,vs a high skilled very intelligent one .Humm this arguement keeps going but the names have changed to EK vs Webber

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08-21-2012, 03:49 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by topshelf15 View Post
Big physical two way defender ,vs a high skilled very intelligent one .Humm this arguement keeps going but the names have changed to EK vs Webber
EK is nothing like Lidstrom.....

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08-21-2012, 03:53 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by ashenhigh View Post
EK is nothing like Lidstrom.....
The context is the same ,Lidstrom is in a class of his own,same for pronger

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08-21-2012, 03:56 PM
  #60
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I love Lidstrom, and I hate, HATE Pronger, but I'd pick Prime Pronger for a single cup run over Lidstrom.

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08-21-2012, 03:56 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonight We Are Young View Post
Pronger's first season with the Oilers, Stanley cup final game 7.
Pronger's first season with the Ducks Stanley Cup Champion.
Pronger's first season with the with the Flyers Stanley cup final game 6.

Pronger was just that great, he barley played for an elite team, unlike Lidstrom who played for an elite team since he came to the league.
Both those Ducks and Flyers teams were considered stacked at the time, especially the Ducks.

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08-21-2012, 04:02 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Czech Your Math View Post
To me, it depends on the team. If it's one of the favorites which needs someone to help drive the special teams and not can't afford big mistakes at critical times, I'd take Lidstrom. If it's a middle of the road team or an underdog, I think Pronger could make more impact (pun intended).

I vote Pronger, because I think more teams would have a better chance with him.
This is exactly what I was going to say. Lidstrom is a safe conservative choice for teams that can afford such a player at their core. Pronger is a much riskier pick, but also has the capacity to take a relatively mediocre team to another level.

There's really no way to answer the question in a vacuum. You have to know how the team is composed.

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08-21-2012, 05:05 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
This is exactly what I was going to say. Lidstrom is a safe conservative choice for teams that can afford such a player at their core. Pronger is a much riskier pick, but also has the capacity to take a relatively mediocre team to another level.

There's really no way to answer the question in a vacuum. You have to know how the team is composed.
See, that's where I disagree. If you want a #1 shutdown guy, Lidstrom can do it. If you need a puck mover, Lidstrom can do it. If you need a guy to kill penalties, Lidstrom can do it. If you need a guy to play 30 minutes a game, Lidstrom can do it.

Without overrating Lidstrom at all, the only time I would take Pronger is if I already had Lidstrom.

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08-21-2012, 05:08 PM
  #64
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Pronger. I've never been sold on Lidstrom.

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08-21-2012, 05:25 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by ashenhigh View Post
Well I wouldn't call the Professional Hockey Writers Association and bunch of idiots but I would agree they have gotten some wrong.

2011 Norris probably should have gone to Chara or Weber but thats it. Lidstrom deserved winning his other 6 awards.

Also, why Scott Stevens? Stevens had played 17 NHL seasons before Lidstrom was even a Norris finalist.... Stevens' Norris competition was not Lidstrom, as Lidstrom started to win his Norris Trophies in the twilight of Stevens' career.

Pronger was wretched and vile though

Stevens deserved the award in 01, McIinnis deserved it in 03, Pronger deserved it in 06 & 02(and in 2010 over Keith) and Chara deserved it in 11

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08-21-2012, 06:32 PM
  #66
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Pronger. No doubt.

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Old
08-21-2012, 06:55 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockey Mind View Post
Pronger. I've never been sold on Lidstrom.
How old are you?

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08-21-2012, 07:13 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonight We Are Young View Post
Pronger's first season with the Oilers, Stanley cup final game 7.
Pronger's first season with the Ducks Stanley Cup Champion.
Pronger's first season with the with the Flyers Stanley cup final game 6.

Pronger was just that great, he barley played for an elite team, unlike Lidstrom who played for an elite team since he came to the league.
Barely played for an elite team? Pronger's St Louis Blues were one of the most stacked teams in the league but choked repeatedly in the playoffs. Many people think the 2007 Ducks arethe most stacked team after the lockout. The 2010 Flyers were loaded in forward talent and had a #2 defensman in Timonen who would have been a #1 on most teams.

The Oilers are the only team that fits your narrative and Pronger didn't played for them very long.

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08-21-2012, 07:23 PM
  #69
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Lidstrom.

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08-21-2012, 08:04 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Barely played for an elite team? Pronger's St Louis Blues were one of the most stacked teams in the league but choked repeatedly in the playoffs. Many people think the 2007 Ducks arethe most stacked team after the lockout. The 2010 Flyers were loaded in forward talent and had a #2 defensman in Timonen who would have been a #1 on most teams.

The Oilers are the only team that fits your narrative and Pronger didn't played for them very long.
The Blues were loaded for Prongers first season on the Blues as 21 year old and then things went down hill fast after that. Pronger willing the Blues to a Presidents Cup in 2000 is the greatest and most unique accomplishment I have ever seen in Hockey. McInnis is the only player on that team that could of even made the Wings, Avs or Devils roster.

The 2010 Flyers were 100% a product of Pronger's greatness, replace him with Lidstrom or any other defensemen that year and they don't even sniff the playoffs.

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08-21-2012, 08:05 PM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
This is exactly what I was going to say. Lidstrom is a safe conservative choice for teams that can afford such a player at their core. Pronger is a much riskier pick, but also has the capacity to take a relatively mediocre team to another level.
Great way of putting it.

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08-21-2012, 09:02 PM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhillyBluesFan View Post
Stevens deserved the award in 01, McIinnis deserved it in 03, Pronger deserved it in 06 & 02(and in 2010 over Keith) and Chara deserved it in 11
06 Pronger deserved it? I think 80 points, plus 50, while being the top defensive guy in the league trumps Prongers 06 season. Youre really grasping at straws here. 06 is a year that is Lidstroms and not really close whatsoever

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jagorim Jarg View Post
Great way of putting it.
I dunno. I think its pretty stupid to say Lidstrom wouldnt put a team over the top on the same level Pronger would. Lidstrom never did it because he stayed with one team, unlike Pronger who moved around a lot. You would think if hes that good, one team woul dlock him up permanently...

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08-21-2012, 09:34 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by newfy View Post
06 Pronger deserved it? I think 80 points, plus 50, while being the top defensive guy in the league trumps Prongers 06 season. Youre really grasping at straws here. 06 is a year that is Lidstroms and not really close whatsoever



I dunno. I think its pretty stupid to say Lidstrom wouldnt put a team over the top on the same level Pronger would. Lidstrom never did it because he stayed with one team, unlike Pronger who moved around a lot. You would think if hes that good, one team woul dlock him up permanently...
Lidstrom never did it because he isn't capable of doing it

Pronger would of had 80 points annually playing with Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Shannahan, etc. We saw what happened in the first round of the playoffs that year Pronger took a cast of scrubs in Edmonton and imposed his will. Lidstrom and the rest of the Wings HOFers couldn't do a damn thing about.

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08-21-2012, 10:26 PM
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhillyBluesFan View Post
Lidstrom never did it because he isn't capable of doing it

Pronger would of had 80 points annually playing with Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Shannahan, etc. We saw what happened in the first round of the playoffs that year Pronger took a cast of scrubs in Edmonton and imposed his will. Lidstrom and the rest of the Wings HOFers couldn't do a damn thing about.
No he never did it because he never had to. What kind of logic is that? He has been the best player on a team that's been the best team of the last 20 years.

Pronger played with plenty of elite talent throughout his career but his career high in points is only 62, something Lidstrom equaled or passed 8 freakin' times in his career, most recently as a 40 year old. And about the Norrises, Lidstrom very well could have 2 more ('04, '09).

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08-21-2012, 10:36 PM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhillyBluesFan View Post
Lidstrom never did it because he isn't capable of doing it

Pronger would of had 80 points annually playing with Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Shannahan, etc. We saw what happened in the first round of the playoffs that year Pronger took a cast of scrubs in Edmonton and imposed his will. Lidstrom and the rest of the Wings HOFers couldn't do a damn thing about.
Man I absolutely hate this arguement, the fact that Lidstrom played with good players isn't a knock on him at all. The fact that he played with those guys and still stands out as the best Wings player post Gordie should speak volumes about him.

Lidstrom and Yzerman were the heart and soul of the most dominant franchise in the modern era. Lidstrom was the single biggest reason Detroit was elite. Can somebody tell me how carrying the best franchise in the past 20 years on your back is inferior to Pronger helping a sub-par Oilers team over achieve for one season?

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