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Pronger vs Lidstrom

View Poll Results: Pronger or Lidstrom for a cup run?
Pronger 76 46.63%
Lidstrom 83 50.92%
Can't decide 4 2.45%
Voters: 163. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
08-21-2012, 11:12 PM
  #76
PhillyBluesFan
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Originally Posted by DanZ View Post
No he never did it because he never had to. What kind of logic is that? He has been the best player on a team that's been the best team of the last 20 years.

Pronger played with plenty of elite talent throughout his career but his career high in points is only 62, something Lidstrom equaled or passed 8 freakin' times in his career, most recently as a 40 year old. And about the Norrises, Lidstrom very well could have 2 more ('04, '09).
He could of done it in 06 when Pronger was smacking around the Wings. That series got really physical and really fast and Lidstrom disappeared like the rest of the Wings. Also Lidstrom was NEVER the best player on the Wings over Federov, Yzerman, or Datsyuk

Don't ever compare the talent on the Blues, Oilers and Flyers to the Wings. Outside of 96 and maybe 07 the best group of Forwards Pronger played with isn't as good as the worst group Lidstrom's had.

Your right I was stunned when the media didn't gift Lidstrom the award in 09.


Last edited by PhillyBluesFan: 08-21-2012 at 11:22 PM.
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Old
08-21-2012, 11:20 PM
  #77
DanZ
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Originally Posted by PhillyBluesFan View Post
He could of done it in 06 when Pronger was smacking around the Wings. That series got really physical and really fast and Lidstrom disappeared like the rest of the Wings.

Don't ever compare the talent on the Blues, Oilers and Flyers to the Wings. Outside of 96 and maybe 07 the best group of Forwards Pronger played with isn't as good as the worst group Lidstrom's had.

Your right I was stunned when the media didn't gift Lidstrom the award in 09.
Lidstrom has beat Pronger before in the playoffs before so I'm not quite sure what nitpicking one year has to do with anything. Bottom line is Lidstrom has 4 Cups, a Conn Smythe, and 7 Norris trophies which dwarfs anything Pronger has accomplished.

If you are trying to argue Lidstrom didn't deserve the Norris in 2011, then Chara didn't deserve his in 2009.

Let's just say that there is a very good reason you are in the strong minority on most of your opinions on this subject and there's really no point in arguing with someone who's so extremely biased. I guess it must have sucked watching Pronger lose with both the Blues AND Flyers

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08-21-2012, 11:33 PM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanZ View Post
Lidstrom has beat Pronger before in the playoffs before so I'm not quite sure what nitpicking one year has to do with anything. Bottom line is Lidstrom has 4 Cups, a Conn Smythe, and 7 Norris trophies which dwarfs anything Pronger has accomplished.

If you are trying to argue Lidstrom didn't deserve the Norris in 2011, then Chara didn't deserve his in 2009.

Let's just say that there is a very good reason you are in the strong minority on most of your opinions on this subject and there's really no point in arguing with someone who's so extremely biased. I guess it must have sucked watching Pronger lose with both the Blues AND Flyers
I could of played for the Wings and they would of had 4 Cups. Considering the talent the Wings underachieved more often than not

Charas was clearly better than Lidstrom in 09 and the gap has only grown wider every season since.

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08-22-2012, 05:29 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Pronger's St Louis Blues were one of the most stacked teams in the league but choked repeatedly in the playoffs.
How on Earth have you not realized that this isn't true by now? They were almost never favored in their playoff series. I know you've seen me post this:


Series in which the Blues had more points
1998 Blues (98 pts): 4 Games vs. Los Angeles (78 pts)
2000 Blues (114 pts): 7 Games vs. San Jose (87 pts)
2001 Blues (103 pts): 6 Games vs. San Jose (95 pts)
2002 Blues (98 pts): 5 Games vs. Chicago (96 pts)

Series in which the Blues had fewer points
1996 Blues (80 pts): 6 Games vs. Toronto (80 pts)
1996 Blues (80 pts): 7 Games vs. Detroit (131 pts)
1997 Blues (83 pts): 6 Games vs. Detroit (94 pts)
1998 Blues (98 pts): 6 Games vs. Detroit (103 pts)
1999 Blues (87 pts): 7 Games vs. Phoenix (90 pts)
1999 Blues (87 pts): 6 Games vs. Dallas (114 pts)
2001 Blues (103 pts): 4 Games vs. Dallas (106 pts)
2001 Blues (103 pts): 5 Games vs. Colorado (118 pts)
2002 Blues (98 pts): 5 Games vs. Detroit (116 pts)
2003 Blues (99 pts): 7 Games vs. Vancouver (104 pts)
2004 Blues (91 pts): 5 Games vs. San Jose (104 pts)


Series in which Pronger's team had more points
2007 Ducks (110 pts): 5 Games vs. Minnesota (104 pts)
2007 Ducks (110 pts): 5 Games vs. Vancouver (105 pts)
2007 Ducks (110 pts): 5 Games vs. Ottawa (105 pts)

2008 Ducks (102 pts): 6 Games vs. Dallas (97 pts)
2010 Flyers (88 pts): 5 Games vs. Montreal (88 pts)

Series in which Pronger's team had fewer points
2006 Oilers (95 pts): 6 Games vs. Detroit (124 pts)
2006 Oilers (95 pts): 6 Games vs. San Jose (99 pts)
2006 Oilers (95 pts): 5 Games vs. Anaheim (98 pts)

2006 Oilers (95 pts): 7 Games vs. Carolina (112 pts)
2007 Ducks (110 pts): 6 Games vs. Detroit (113 pts)
2009 Ducks (91 pts): 6 Games vs. San Jose (117 pts)

2009 Ducks (91 pts): 7 Games vs. Detroit (112 pts)
2010 Flyers (88 pts): 5 Games vs. New Jersey (103 pts)
2010 Flyers (88 pts): 7 Games vs. Boston (91 pts)

2010 Flyers (88 pts): 6 Games vs. Chicago (112 pts)


Pronger's teams have lost a series in which they were favored TWICE. Outside of that San Jose series, the teams knocking the Blues out of the playoffs averaged 18 more points in the standings. And you're calling them habitual chokers?

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08-22-2012, 05:32 AM
  #80
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Pronger

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08-22-2012, 10:03 AM
  #81
DanZ
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Originally Posted by PhillyBluesFan View Post
I could of played for the Wings and they would of had 4 Cups. Considering the talent the Wings underachieved more often than not

Charas was clearly better than Lidstrom in 09 and the gap has only grown wider every season since.
No, if you took Lidstrom off the Wings and replaced him with you, they would not have won a single Cup... Since when can you take the best player off any team in history and not expect them to be significantly worse? Lidstrom is the single most important reason for the Wings' success the past two decades. Take him out of the equation and this era of dominance would be an era of mediocrity...

And no, Lidstrom outscored Chara and outperformed him defensively. Chara's so overrated anyways, he was gifted a Norris because the media was sick of giving it to Lidstrom year after year so they were relieved that he even had any competition...

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08-22-2012, 10:12 AM
  #82
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It depends on the other defensemen on your roster. If my defense was small and not very physical I would take Pronger. If I had a few shutdown guys and wanted a positional defenseman with more offensive upside, I'd take Lidstrom.

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08-22-2012, 10:17 AM
  #83
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If you are looking for a guy for one game and need a game changer, Pronger. If you are looking for someone to build a team around for the next 15-20 years, Lidstrom.

Pronger was not special for his everyday value, it was the big moments you really saw him stand out. Lidstrom, while he had his big games too, really had his value in his long term staying power and game to game top level play.

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08-22-2012, 01:42 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhillyBluesFan View Post
He could of done it in 06 when Pronger was smacking around the Wings. That series got really physical and really fast and Lidstrom disappeared like the rest of the Wings. Also Lidstrom was NEVER the best player on the Wings over Federov, Yzerman, or Datsyuk

Don't ever compare the talent on the Blues, Oilers and Flyers to the Wings. Outside of 96 and maybe 07 the best group of Forwards Pronger played with isn't as good as the worst group Lidstrom's had.
About 2006, Yzerman and Chelios were in their 40s and Shanahan was 38... twilight of their careers. Stop assuming that the 2006 Wings were anything like 97, 98, and 02 teams. Congrats Pronger won that series against us, his first in his career after getting owned year in and year out.

Lidstrom has most definitely been the best player on the Wings a number of times.... you clearly wouldn't have a clue because judging by your username the last thing you would ever want to do is watch a Wings game. Compared to Fedorov, you realize Lidstrom peaked a decade after his peak right? Yzerman was 36 by the time Lidstrom won his first Norris.. so yes Lidstrom was better than both Fedorov and Yzerman by 2002, easily. And Datysuk? Lidstrom showed he was most important Wing between 2002 and 2007.

Its off-topic but you keep dogging Lidstrom, the generational Dman of our day.

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