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August 2012: Scott Hartnell Signs Extension (6 years, $4.75m cap hit, limited NMC)

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11-26-2013, 01:21 AM
  #251
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Originally Posted by blinds View Post
I understand the value he brings even if he isn't playing up to it, but he shouldn't be on the 1st line. 2011-12 was a career year where he played like a legit 1st liner, but that's not going to happen again. He had that quick one timer from the slot that got him a lot of goals, but teams have figured that out now. I think he's a second liner that will quickly fade to a 3rd liner as age catches him.
I'm starting to agree with the Hart chatter.

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11-26-2013, 03:40 AM
  #252
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Handing out such a contract after the player is having a career year is always risky.

He is overpaid but the cap will go up to mitigate the effect on the team.
I guess we can't bank on getting another amnesty buyout anytime soon?

I fear that Giroux's new contract will sting just as much as Hartsy's next year.

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11-26-2013, 06:28 AM
  #253
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Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
He really hasn't been bad of late but usually when you're in the doghouse around here anything short of curing cancer won't get you out of it.
He's not been bad of late? He knocked the net off for no reason and cost us a goal, he's waving his stick about like there's no tomorrow costing us penalties and he's missing flat-out open goals. He's an absolute liability right now and is sucking Giroux and Voracek down with him.

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11-26-2013, 07:39 AM
  #254
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He actually played well last night, setting up our only goal.

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11-26-2013, 07:45 AM
  #255
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Originally Posted by Curufinwe View Post
He actually played well last night, setting up our only goal.
He had a few good shifts and some bad ones, but that G to Hartnell quickshot produces reasonably well. In this case, it created a great rebound. Hartnell is best when he's able to buzz around the net, fight in the corners, and set up that shot.

A bit of the team's inability to maintain pressure in the zone is to blame as well.

I'd like to see more out of him.

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11-26-2013, 08:06 AM
  #256
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What do you think hartnell's trade value would be if they were to move him? I don't see it happening or being realistic but for ***** and grins...

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11-26-2013, 09:23 AM
  #257
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Not very high.

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Old
11-26-2013, 09:48 AM
  #258
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Originally Posted by Curufinwe View Post
Not very high.
I disagree, Harts value could be high depending on the team and their needs. Harts has proven he can score and he's a get in your face kinda guy who isn't scared to park in front of the opponents net. Not quite sure on his salary...around $4.75mil a year(noted at top and not that high) but its the number of years that might scare teams off for a guy that's 31yrs old.
I could see the Flyers fetching a solid Dman for Harts...he is considered a top line winger even though us Flyers fans think differently. The only problem is his NMC which I think is limited to a list of teams Harts will go, if I were Homer I would shop him around. I believe Harts is just one of those players that needs a change of scenery and his game could step up again.

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11-26-2013, 10:04 AM
  #259
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I'm not against cutting dead weight in general but this teams is already very young and that with Pronger and Timonen on the roster.
We need good Veteran leadership and moving Hartnell after signing him to a 5 year extension is such a bad sign to both the younger players and the UFA out there... I don't know, it just doesn't seem like the right way.

Homer needs to be more disciplined and keep contract extensions short as long as this team has established as a real contender.

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11-26-2013, 10:36 AM
  #260
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I don't wanna move Hartnell at all. I think it'd be immediately noticeable how much the team would miss him.

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11-26-2013, 10:43 AM
  #261
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dats81 View Post
I'm not against cutting dead weight in general but this teams is already very young and that with Pronger and Timonen on the roster.
We need good Veteran leadership and moving Hartnell after signing him to a 5 year extension is such a bad sign to both the younger players and the UFA out there... I don't know, it just doesn't seem like the right way.

Homer needs to be more disciplined and keep contract extensions short as long as this team has established as a real contender.
At the time of the contract, you can't really say he did a bad job. He earned the deal. I say this all the time, if you want these players you have to pay for them. If the Flyers didn't give it to him, someone else would have. Now, your argument may be that Hartnell sucks and you don't want him here, and that's fine. But when he signed the deal he was 30 years old and just scored his career high in goals and points. It's hard to say that Homer should have A) let him walk or B) gotten a better deal. Six years isn't an absurd amount of time for a guy of his skillset or age. That's the deal he's going to get on the open market and if you want him you pay it. I understand if your position is just he sucks we shouldn't have re-signed him at all (though I wouldn't agree with it), but if you wanted him re-signed, this was the deal he was going to get.

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11-26-2013, 10:45 AM
  #262
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
At the time of the contract, you can't really say he did a bad job. He earned the deal. I say this all the time, if you want these players you have to pay for them. If the Flyers didn't give it to him, someone else would have. Now, your argument may be that Hartnell sucks and you don't want him here, and that's fine. But when he signed the deal he was 30 years old and just scored his career high in goals and points. It's hard to say that Homer should have A) let him walk or B) gotten a better deal. Six years isn't an absurd amount of time for a guy of his skillset or age. That's the deal he's going to get on the open market and if you want him you pay it. I understand if your position is just he sucks we shouldn't have re-signed him at all (though I wouldn't agree with it), but if you wanted him re-signed, this was the deal he was going to get.
At the time of the deal, given what other players who did less got, Holmgren got Hartnell for an extreme discount in terms of cap hit. He may be paying for it in years, but seriously, look at similar players and what they are making. It's crazy. Lesser guys like David Clarkson and Ryane Clowe are making as much if not more.

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11-26-2013, 10:47 AM
  #263
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The more I look at Clarkson and his stats, the crazier I think his contract is. I have no clue how you give a guy like that upwards of 5m a year for 7 years. Insane.

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11-26-2013, 10:51 AM
  #264
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Originally Posted by JDinklage Morgoone View Post
The more I look at Clarkson and his stats, the crazier I think his contract is. I have no clue how you give a guy like that upwards of 5m a year for 7 years. Insane.
True...Clowe and Clarkson do make Hartnell's contract look good.

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11-26-2013, 10:51 AM
  #265
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Originally Posted by FlyersFanz View Post
I disagree, Harts value could be high depending on the team and their needs. Harts has proven he can score
Other teams aren't going to just ignore the fact he's scored 18 points in his last 51 games and is signed until June 2019 when he will be 37. Anyone trading for Hartnell is taking a huge risk that his level of play will drop significantly as he gets into his mid 30s.

That's why his value is not high.

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11-26-2013, 10:59 AM
  #266
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He's not been bad of late? He knocked the net off for no reason and cost us a goal, he's waving his stick about like there's no tomorrow costing us penalties and he's missing flat-out open goals. He's an absolute liability right now and is sucking Giroux and Voracek down with him.
The whole line hasn't been playing up to their abilities this whole year. Voracek looks like the Voracek of old who does great things with the puck only to not finish. Giroux looks like same as last year plays with no passion anymore, forces a ton of passes, & is petrified to shoot the puck.

I would consider splitting them up but the other two lines have been pretty good (especially the third line) this year that would make me hesitant.

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11-26-2013, 11:00 AM
  #267
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Originally Posted by dats81 View Post
I'm not against cutting dead weight in general but this teams is already very young and that with Pronger and Timonen on the roster.
We need good Veteran leadership and moving Hartnell after signing him to a 5 year extension is such a bad sign to both the younger players and the UFA out there... I don't know, it just doesn't seem like the right way.

Homer needs to be more disciplined and keep contract extensions short as long as this team has established as a real contender.
Everyone said trading Richards carter and jvr would affect ufa and the young guys from signing extensions here. But as usual money talks and no one in their right mind says no because they traded a guy that they extended.

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11-26-2013, 11:07 AM
  #268
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Originally Posted by JDinklage Morgoone View Post
The more I look at Clarkson and his stats, the crazier I think his contract is. I have no clue how you give a guy like that upwards of 5m a year for 7 years. Insane.
Clowe's is more crazier too me. He had 20 goals in last 116 games going into this summer on top of having concussion issues which took a bit off his physicality.

Clarkson on the other hand had 45 goals in 128 games going into this summer.

I don't like either contract for the record but I at least get Clarkson's more is the point I'm trying to make here.

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11-26-2013, 11:08 AM
  #269
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The whole line hasn't been playing up to their abilities this whole year. Voracek looks like the Voracek of old who does great things with the puck only to not finish. Giroux looks like same as last year plays with no passion anymore, forces a ton of passes, & is petrified to shoot the puck.
He took plenty of shots in recent games. He may make some bad decisions, but he's not petrified of anything.

He actually leads the team in shots.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.h...me=shootingAll


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11-26-2013, 11:23 AM
  #270
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He took plenty of shots in recent games. He may make some bad decisions, but he's not petrified of anything.

He actually leads the team in shots.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.h...me=shootingAll
He passes up a lot of quality shooting opportunities this year.

He honestly looks like how Ovie looked two years ago & into the beginning of last year. He just plays uninspired hockey & totally abandons the things that made him a great player two years ago.

He doesn't engage physically much anymore, he back checks poorly now, he makes a ton of dumb decisions with the puck (at least for his standards).

He's putting up points now but so did Ovie during those terrible stretches just off of pure talent.

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11-26-2013, 02:15 PM
  #271
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Originally Posted by FlyersFanz View Post
I disagree, Harts value could be high depending on the team and their needs. Harts has proven he can score and he's a get in your face kinda guy who isn't scared to park in front of the opponents net. Not quite sure on his salary...around $4.75mil a year(noted at top and not that high) but its the number of years that might scare teams off for a guy that's 31yrs old.
I could see the Flyers fetching a solid Dman for Harts...he is considered a top line winger even though us Flyers fans think differently. The only problem is his NMC which I think is limited to a list of teams Harts will go, if I were Homer I would shop him around. I believe Harts is just one of those players that needs a change of scenery and his game could step up again.
Hartnell for Bieksa?

I do not want to trade Hartnell especially with Downie not being signed. As we saw from this off season PFs are valued very high...even mediocre ones (Clarkson, Clowe, and an OLD Iginla).

Coburn -Bieksa
Streit - Grossmann
Kimmo - Schenn
Gus


Last edited by lancer247: 11-26-2013 at 03:48 PM.
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11-26-2013, 02:36 PM
  #272
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Hartnell for Bieksa?

I do want to trade Hartnell especially with Downie not being signed. As we saw from this off season PFs are valued very high...even mediocre ones (Clarkson, Clowe, and an OLD Iginla).

Coburn -Bieksa
Streit - Grossmann
Kimmo - Schenn
Gus
Bieksa...right handed shot..do it!

Beiksa actually has his times when he plays stupid too but he's a pretty good D man for the most part

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11-26-2013, 02:38 PM
  #273
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But we move Hartnell and expect someone like Raffl to take his place? I think you'll be very disappointed in that. Same thing goes with McGinn. I like them both as young players but I don't trust any of them to take Hartnell's minutes and bring the same grit and space on the ice.

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11-26-2013, 03:53 PM
  #274
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But we move Hartnell and expect someone like Raffl to take his place? I think you'll be very disappointed in that. Same thing goes with McGinn. I like them both as young players but I don't trust any of them to take Hartnell's minutes and bring the same grit and space on the ice.
I agree. We take what Hartnell does bring to the table for granted.

If they were to move Hartnell though then you have to try and trade for a guy like Gaborik and hope he shows up. I do not have faith in Rafl or McGin other then as 4th line fill ins for Rosehill come playoff time (fingers crossed).

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11-26-2013, 04:12 PM
  #275
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I agree. We take what Hartnell does bring to the table for granted.

If they were to move Hartnell though then you have to try and trade for a guy like Gaborik and hope he shows up. I do not have faith in Rafl or McGin other then as 4th line fill ins for Rosehill come playoff time (fingers crossed).
While Gaborik for Hartnell would be intriguing not just because you get skill back but b/c you can dump Hartnell's contract and have the option to extend Gaborik or not...doubt he would waive to go to Columbus.

Columbus is looking for lockerroom leadership though...

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