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08-21-2012, 02:07 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by smoke meat pete View Post
I don't see anything wrong with NY choice either.
Eh, it's not terrible. I just think they would have been much better off picking Rielly, given the state of their franchise and make-up of the team.

I also never personally saw this greatness in Reinhart that would warrant a top-5 pick.

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08-21-2012, 02:12 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Whydidijoin View Post
Eh, it's not terrible. I just think they would have been much better off picking Rielly, given the state of their franchise and make-up of the team.

I also never personally saw this greatness in Reinhart that would warrant a top-5 pick.
I haven't seen much of any of these guys, but what I saw heard of Reinhart, he's a very intriguing pick. Chris Pronger like?

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08-21-2012, 02:39 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Leaf Rocket View Post
Murray brings everything that you can ask for in a prospect or player. His skill level doesn't scream flashiness that some expect from their prospect or player, however regardless of the situation, he is always effective. He's like the western Alex Pietrangelo to me, still developing his offense and what not but a rock solid guy to have in the back end.

Rielly on the other hand, has his offense and skating probably pro level for his age, but he still has work to do.

In short, one is a sure shot safe prospect, while the other is high risk high reward prospect.
Well said, I support this opinion.

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08-21-2012, 02:41 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Whydidijoin View Post
It seems to me like Murray is more of a sure thing, and Rielly has higher potential, but is slightly less likely to reach it.

It really comes down to which you prefer. I think with the state of the franchises, both Columbus and Toronto made the right choices. New York, I'm not so sure.
I don't even understand why Rielly seems more of a gamble than Murray at all. His game is less safe, but his tools are there, and he's got a head for the game. I don't see Murray as more of a guarantee to work out.

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08-21-2012, 02:43 PM
  #80
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I don't even understand why Rielly seems more of a gamble than Murray at all. His game is less safe, but his tools are there, and he's got a head for the game. I don't see Murray as more of a guarantee to work out.
I'm with ya. I'm not understanding why one would be more of a risk than the other.

Although Murray has player 120 games as a 17 or 18 year old, and Rielly has played around 23.

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08-21-2012, 02:45 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by smoke meat pete View Post
I'm with ya. I'm not understanding why one would be more of a risk than the other.
I agree with Stephen also, I don't see how Rielly is high risk. At all.

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08-21-2012, 02:48 PM
  #82
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I agree with Stephen also, I don't see how Rielly is high risk. At all.
Not any more so than any other prospect. Leading up to the draft it was expected to be Yak, Forsberg, Grig, Galch etc etc. I don't see how any of the top 8-10 picks is riskier than any other.

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08-21-2012, 03:24 PM
  #83
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It is highly demonstrative of how myopic and single minded Maple Leafs fans can be regarding our players and prospects when it's nearly a consensus already that Rielly is better than Murray.

This has also been demonstrated by the fact that we have the worst record in hockey over five years but some fans seem to think all of our players are good.

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08-21-2012, 03:28 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by leftwinghockey View Post
It is highly demonstrative of how myopic and single minded Maple Leafs fans can be regarding our players and prospects when it's nearly a consensus already that Rielly is better than Murray.

This has also been demonstrated by the fact that we have the worst record in hockey over five years but some fans seem to think all of our players are good.
I'm just going with what a lot of scouts are saying. Many that aren't exactly pro-Leafs.

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08-21-2012, 03:32 PM
  #85
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Murray is the whole package. He doesnt do anything outstandingly good, but he can do everything well.

Rielly can play a offensive game really good but besides that, he's not that great, but not that bad.

So overall, Murray is better IMO.

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08-21-2012, 03:37 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Jozay View Post
Murray is the whole package. He doesnt do anything outstandingly good, but he can do everything well.

Rielly can play a offensive game really good but besides that, he's not that great, but not that bad.

So overall, Murray is better IMO.
That's exactly why he doesn't sound (and looked) that great to me for a prospect that went 2nd overall.

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08-21-2012, 03:38 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by leftwinghockey View Post
It is highly demonstrative of how myopic and single minded Maple Leafs fans can be regarding our players and prospects when it's nearly a consensus already that Rielly is better than Murray.

This has also been demonstrated by the fact that we have the worst record in hockey over five years but some fans seem to think all of our players are good.
I decided it was Rielly I wanted in January. BEFORE he was ever Leaf.

He could be the best player out of the draft. Is there a dman you'd rather have on the Leafs right now over Karlsson or Doughty? Because I see him developing into a more physical and a better defender than Karlsson and slightly less or equally good offensive threat to Karlsson.

And yeah I would compare Murray to Petro, but I don't know if he'll be quite as good.

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08-21-2012, 03:41 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Jozay View Post
Murray is the whole package. He doesnt do anything outstandingly good, but he can do everything well.

Rielly can play a offensive game really good but besides that, he's not that great, but not that bad.

So overall, Murray is better IMO.
Defensive aspect and positioning can easily be taught and improved upon over the long haul. You simply can't teach the high-end talent that Rielly showcases on a game to game basis.

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08-21-2012, 03:41 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
I don't even understand why Rielly seems more of a gamble than Murray at all. His game is less safe, but his tools are there, and he's got a head for the game. I don't see Murray as more of a guarantee to work out.
I never said high risk. I said slight risk, and still a better chance than most prospects.

The number of games played is one concern. I also think the style of game Murray plays is slightly more transferable to the NHL. It really is tiny details. I just think Murray is very slightly more likely to make the NHL (like 99% and 95%), but if they both make the NHL, which is very likely, then Rielly will be the greater impact player.

I also think Murray fits Columbus' style of game, and Rielly fits Toronto, so it was a good pick on both accounts.

This is like comparing Weber and Suter...

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08-21-2012, 03:56 PM
  #90
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Higher ceiling goes to Rielly.

More stable is Murray.

Murray is moreso that guaranteed rearguard #2 position. Rielly is that, high risk high reward type of guy, but I still think Rielly achieves his potential. Dude is just too driven. As long as that one injury which was freak, does not define his career, we've got a gem.

This guy is our Letang.

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08-21-2012, 04:12 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by BlueMapleDawg View Post
I decided it was Rielly I wanted in January. BEFORE he was ever Leaf.

He could be the best player out of the draft. Is there a dman you'd rather have on the Leafs right now over Karlsson or Doughty? Because I see him developing into a more physical and a better defender than Karlsson and slightly less or equally good offensive threat to Karlsson.

And yeah I would compare Murray to Petro, but I don't know if he'll be quite as good.
I don't find it ludicrous for one person to feel this way. However when the entire board pours in with conviction that Rielly is better only 2 months after Murray was drafted second overall is telling of our tendencies of a fan base. Who could disagree?

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08-21-2012, 04:18 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by leftwinghockey View Post
I don't find it ludicrous for one person to feel this way. However when the entire board pours in with conviction that Rielly is better only 2 months after Murray was drafted second overall is telling of our tendencies of a fan base. Who could disagree?
I know. I understood your point and you're right to an extent, but there are those who were high on him from the get-go.

I think at the end of the day you're looking at a guy like Murray who is going to controlling and managing a game. Rielly is going to be the guy dictating what happens. Similar to how Lidstrom did for 20 years. AND FOR THE LOVE OF GOD I DIDN'T SAY HE'S GOING TO BE AS GOOD AS LIDSTROM.

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08-21-2012, 04:22 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by leftwinghockey View Post
I don't find it ludicrous for one person to feel this way. However when the entire board pours in with conviction that Rielly is better only 2 months after Murray was drafted second overall is telling of our tendencies of a fan base. Who could disagree?
I do and so do many scouts.

@KellyFriesen
A lot of chatter from scouts and writers on my feed that they believe Morgan Rielly has more upside than Ryan Murray from what they've seen.

‏@dstaples
Based on what I've seen to date I rate Morgan Rielly is a better prospect than Ryan Murray. #Leafs

‏@RossyYoungblood
The more I watch Morgan Rielly play. The more I love the pick for the #Leafs He has outplayed every '12 prospect

@ToddCordell
I could watch Morgan Rielly play all day every day. Love his game.

@WHLFromAbove
Happy to see so many people appreciating Morgan Rielly's skills. Kid is a player and its been fun to watch him for two years.

@KellyFriesen
Morgan Rielly's skating reminds me of Paul Coffey. A treat to watch, a burden to play against.

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08-21-2012, 04:25 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by leftwinghockey View Post
I don't find it ludicrous for one person to feel this way. However when the entire board pours in with conviction that Rielly is better only 2 months after Murray was drafted second overall is telling of our tendencies of a fan base. Who could disagree?
I just read the whole thread, and it seems that the consensus here is not that Rielly is the better prospect, rather that he has the higher upside while Murray is the safer prospect in regards to reaching his potential...and that has been the non-leafs fan consensus on these two all along. Call me biased if you wish but in the lotto pick range I'll take the higher upside player vs the safe pick...especially considering how well our last safe pick at 5th overall worked out for us.

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08-21-2012, 04:52 PM
  #95
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The funny thing I really love Rielly and am thrilled we picked him.

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08-21-2012, 05:17 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by thebluemachine View Post
I do and so do many scouts.

@KellyFriesen
A lot of chatter from scouts and writers on my feed that they believe Morgan Rielly has more upside than Ryan Murray from what they've seen.

‏@dstaples
Based on what I've seen to date I rate Morgan Rielly is a better prospect than Ryan Murray. #Leafs

‏@RossyYoungblood
The more I watch Morgan Rielly play. The more I love the pick for the #Leafs He has outplayed every '12 prospect

@ToddCordell
I could watch Morgan Rielly play all day every day. Love his game.

@WHLFromAbove
Happy to see so many people appreciating Morgan Rielly's skills. Kid is a player and its been fun to watch him for two years.

@KellyFriesen
Morgan Rielly's skating reminds me of Paul Coffey. A treat to watch, a burden to play against.
When did David Staples become a scout?

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08-21-2012, 05:19 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by achtungbaby View Post
When did David Staples become a scout?
He did'nt. But he's not exactly pro-Leafs. Kind of speaks volumes about Rielly, his talent is undeniable.

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08-21-2012, 05:24 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by thebluemachine View Post
He did'nt. But he's not exactly pro-Leafs. Kind of speaks volumes about Rielly, his talent is undeniable.
Let's not call people scouts unless they are actually scouts. If a blogger praises Rielly on twitter, let's not over-hype it like that.

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08-21-2012, 05:28 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by achtungbaby View Post
Let's not call people scouts unless they are actually scouts. If a blogger praises Rielly on twitter, let's not over-hype it like that.
He's been a hockey writer for almost 30 years and follows prospects fairly closely. He more then qualifies.

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08-21-2012, 05:36 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by thebluemachine View Post
He's been a hockey writer for almost 30 years and follows prospects fairly closely. He more then qualifies.
I'm glad he follows prospects fairly closely. Point is, he's not a scout. You seem to take your information from anyone when it makes the Leafs look good but crap on the media if they report anything that comes across as even remotely negative.

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