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Rielly>Murray?

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Old
08-21-2012, 05:40 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by achtungbaby View Post
I'm glad he follows prospects fairly closely. Point is, he's not a scout. You seem to take your information from anyone when it makes the Leafs look good but crap on the media if they report anything that comes across as even remotely negative.
Well there's those bunch of scouts as well. I know you tried to downplay Staples a few pages back so I can understand your pain.

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08-21-2012, 05:42 PM
  #102
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They are different players. Murray looks like barring injuries he should play 1000 games in the NHL although he may only be a solid 2nd pairing guy who never puts up more than 30 points. Reilly looks like his ceiling could be a dynamic puck mover who puts up more than 50 points on a regular basis.

Reilly's ceiling is higher, but he looks like he is going to have to come close to it to be an effective player. Murray looks like if he doesn't improve much he will still be an OK NHLer. At least that's how I see it.

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08-21-2012, 05:49 PM
  #103
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All these opinions can turn out to be total hogwash in a few years. Yes we should be very happy we have such a high-potential player on our hands, but isn't it taking it a bit far when we call him something like the next Karlsson? 78 points is one hard achievement to match. We have yet to watch him play a single full season. Yes he's looked great in that Canada-Russia series, but overhyping has never ever worked out in our favor has it? To put such an expectation on his shoulders is not the best thing to do.

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08-21-2012, 05:55 PM
  #104
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Won't know for a few years. Murray looks very poised at a young age. Rielly looks fast and smart. Both could be outstanding players, just different. Both could bust...(highly unlikely).

Like both players potential.

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08-21-2012, 06:17 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by leftwinghockey View Post
It is highly demonstrative of how myopic and single minded Maple Leafs fans can be regarding our players and prospects when it's nearly a consensus already that Rielly is better than Murray.

This has also been demonstrated by the fact that we have the worst record in hockey over five years but some fans seem to think all of our players are good.
this is a terrific post. the vast majority of people commenting...two summer months after the draft...have never seen either of them play more than a game or two. if that.

getting right to the crux of all this, its simply an attempt to prove that burke somehow "stole" rielly in this draft. we want to believe it was an amazing pick, we want to believe we stole rielly from the 4 teams that chose ahead of us.

its not enough to be happy with rielly and hope he does well in the future. we want to believe that this was a magnificent piece of work by brian burke.

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08-21-2012, 06:35 PM
  #106
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Who knows, but as impressed as I was with Rielly during the summit series, Murray impressed me even more. So solid and poised. Reminded me of Bourque. Both should have good careers.

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08-21-2012, 07:03 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by CeeLoBlue View Post
All these opinions can turn out to be total hogwash in a few years. Yes we should be very happy we have such a high-potential player on our hands, but isn't it taking it a bit far when we call him something like the next Karlsson? 78 points is one hard achievement to match. We have yet to watch him play a single full season. Yes he's looked great in that Canada-Russia series, but overhyping has never ever worked out in our favor has it? To put such an expectation on his shoulders is not the best thing to do.
Good post.

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08-21-2012, 07:44 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by leftwinghockey View Post
It is highly demonstrative of how myopic and single minded Maple Leafs fans can be regarding our players and prospects when it's nearly a consensus already that Rielly is better than Murray.

This has also been demonstrated by the fact that we have the worst record in hockey over five years but some fans seem to think all of our players are good.

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Originally Posted by Frankie View Post
this is a terrific post. the vast majority of people commenting...two summer months after the draft...have never seen either of them play more than a game or two. if that.

getting right to the crux of all this, its simply an attempt to prove that burke somehow "stole" rielly in this draft. we want to believe it was an amazing pick, we want to believe we stole rielly from the 4 teams that chose ahead of us.

its not enough to be happy with rielly and hope he does well in the future. we want to believe that this was a magnificent piece of work by brian burke.
I'm no Burke fan, but I'm pretty excited about the kind of prospect Rielly's supposed to be. Who doesn't like a fast, talented and smart kid to add to the prospect pool?

As far as preferring Rielly to Murray having not watched either play very much, I think that's fine. A large part of it is optimism, with a bit of internet hearsay mixed in, but then again, the belief that Murray is better than Rielly is based on nothing but internet and second hand evaluations in the first place.

It's not that unusual for the 2nd overall pick in any draft to be surpassed by someone drafted after him, so I really don't see the problem with preferring the upside on the guy we got over the player that was more highly rated going into the draft. Oliver Ekman Larsson surpassed Victor Hedman pretty quickly. Alex Pietrangelo is twice the player Zach Bogosian is. Not sure why it's unreasonable to expect big things out of Rielly.

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08-21-2012, 08:14 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
I'm no Burke fan, but I'm pretty excited about the kind of prospect Rielly's supposed to be. Who doesn't like a fast, talented and smart kid to add to the prospect pool?

As far as preferring Rielly to Murray having not watched either play very much, I think that's fine. A large part of it is optimism, with a bit of internet hearsay mixed in, but then again, the belief that Murray is better than Rielly is based on nothing but internet and second hand evaluations in the first place.

It's not that unusual for the 2nd overall pick in any draft to be surpassed by someone drafted after him, so I really don't see the problem with preferring the upside on the guy we got over the player that was more highly rated going into the draft. Oliver Ekman Larsson surpassed Victor Hedman pretty quickly. Alex Pietrangelo is twice the player Zach Bogosian is. Not sure why it's unreasonable to expect big things out of Rielly.
I love Rielly. But at this point Murray should still be considered the better prospect. It took more ten two months for the players you mentioned to surpass players ahead of them. They had to proveit.

I dot mean to discredit Rielly. But the overwhelming agreement on Rielly being better is indicative of our fan base. That's all

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08-21-2012, 08:20 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by leftwinghockey View Post
I love Rielly. But at this point Murray should still be considered the better prospect. It took more ten two months for the players you mentioned to surpass players ahead of them. They had to proveit.

I dot mean to discredit Rielly. But the overwhelming agreement on Rielly being better is indicative of our fan base. That's all
Of course Rielly and Murray have to establish themselves as NHLers and whatnot for a proper assessment of who is the better of the two, or who will be the better of the two, but you see a lot of people speaking well of Rielly outside the fanbase, and that in of itself is quite unusual and worth mentioning too.

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08-21-2012, 08:40 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by achtungbaby View Post
I'm glad he follows prospects fairly closely. Point is, he's not a scout. You seem to take your information from anyone when it makes the Leafs look good but crap on the media if they report anything that comes across as even remotely negative.
People use media sources all the time and present them as scouting reports. We constantly see media sources rank prospect pools and their taken as truth.

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08-21-2012, 08:44 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Frankie View Post
its not enough to be happy with rielly and hope he does well in the future. we want to believe that this was a magnificent piece of work by brian burke.
Nah, it's not about Burke. Rielly was heavily hyped but due to his age and injury, people didn't know what to expect. He came with a great reputation and it's really about people being happy he's stayed at a high level after his injury.

It wasn't beyond belief he could become the best defenceman in his draft.

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08-21-2012, 08:57 PM
  #113
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http://flames.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=634023

Consider the source, a Calgary Flames draft preview:

Rielly is the No. 2 defenceman on Central Scouting's final list, trailing only Everett Silvertips defenceman Ryan Murray.

"Had he not been hurt, he probably would have challenged [Sarnia Sting right wing Nail Yakupov] for the No. 1 ranking," Central Scouting's Peter Sullivan said of Rielly. "He's got that [Bobby] Orr-ish quality about him. He can change the game in all areas of the ice, so I'm not surprised he stayed at No. 5 simply because of how good this kid is.


I mean, this is before he was tainted and became Leafs property. That's some heady praise anybody pro or anti Burke can be excited for.

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08-21-2012, 09:00 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
http://flames.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=634023

Consider the source, a Calgary Flames draft preview:

Rielly is the No. 2 defenceman on Central Scouting's final list, trailing only Everett Silvertips defenceman Ryan Murray.

"Had he not been hurt, he probably would have challenged [Sarnia Sting right wing Nail Yakupov] for the No. 1 ranking," Central Scouting's Peter Sullivan said of Rielly. "He's got that [Bobby] Orr-ish quality about him. He can change the game in all areas of the ice, so I'm not surprised he stayed at No. 5 simply because of how good this kid is.


I mean, this is before he was tainted and became Leafs property. That's some heady praise anybody pro or anti Burke can be excited for.
Shucks, and here I thought it was only Leafs fans that were just being narrow minded again.

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08-21-2012, 09:17 PM
  #115
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lol Yeah Bobby Orrish is clearly not hyperbole.

Leaf fans read that and can instantly remain grounded.

Seriously... Bobby Orrish?

lol

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08-21-2012, 09:19 PM
  #116
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lol Yeah Bobby Orrish is clearly not hyperbole.
I think everyone in here understood that.

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08-21-2012, 09:27 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by smoke meat pete View Post
I think everyone in here understood that.
And that's a piece of crap scouting report. Sorry, I like the pick as much as the next man but for the love of God, is every quick moving defenseman Bobby Orrish?

How about Gardiner? He's Bobby Orrish for sure.

Verbal vomit.

Kid is worth watching but hardly because of yellow scouting reports.

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08-21-2012, 09:29 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by thecatch22 View Post
And that's a piece of crap scouting report. Sorry, I like the pick as much as the next man but for the love of God, is every quick moving defenseman Bobby Orrish?

How about Gardiner? He's Bobby Orrish for sure.

Verbal vomit.

Kid is worth watching but hardly because of yellow scouting reports.
You really need to take this stuff less seriously.

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08-21-2012, 09:31 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by thecatch22 View Post
lol Yeah Bobby Orrish is clearly not hyperbole.

Leaf fans read that and can instantly remain grounded.

Seriously... Bobby Orrish?

lol
Bobby Orr'ish qualities does not equal Bobby Orr, 99.99% of Leafs fans understand this.

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08-21-2012, 09:32 PM
  #120
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Well to be fair, Murray always reminded me of a prime Larry Robinson.

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08-21-2012, 09:33 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by thecatch22 View Post
lol Yeah Bobby Orrish is clearly not hyperbole.

Leaf fans read that and can instantly remain grounded.

Seriously... Bobby Orrish?

lol
The point is the hype started somewhere else.

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/article...ff-mock-draft/

Quote:
10. Tampa Bay Lightning

Morgan Rielly, D, Moose Jaw Warriors (WHL)
GM Steve Yzerman was spotted in attendance at Moose Jaw games after Rielly returned from injury so the organization is at the very least intrigued by the defensive prospect. Rielly gives the Lightning what they lack on the blue line. He owns Duncan Keith-type upside and if he was not injured this season, might have been the top-rated defenseman eligible for the draft. He possesses elite skating ability as well as the composure and passing skills to run the offense from the blue line.
Just because someone joins this organization doesn't mean they should automatically get downgraded, nor does hedging your bet and calling a prospect a likely bottom sixer or second pairing defenseman make you more knowledgeable or accurate in assessment.

Or maybe this is a good reason why the Leafs should never have nice things.

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08-21-2012, 09:35 PM
  #122
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Well to be fair, Murray always reminded me of a prime Larry Robinson.
I don't see it.


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08-21-2012, 09:36 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by thebluemachine View Post
Bobby Orr'ish qualities does not equal Bobby Orr, 99.99% of Leafs fans understand this.
It's like Joe Colborne compared to Joe Thornton.

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08-21-2012, 09:40 PM
  #124
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You can look at my previous posts, I call them like a see them. I was very happy with the Reilly pick and I look forward to watching him play. Especially the junior tournament.

But please, scouting reports like that are just designed to get the oldddd crowd riled up with unbelievable expectations.

Ironically, it's crap like that contributes to the growing skepticism towards Leaf prospects and the tendency to call players busts well before they are given the chance to succeed.

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08-21-2012, 09:43 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by thecatch22 View Post
You can look at my previous posts, I call them like a see them. I was very happy with the Reilly pick and I look forward to watching him play. Especially the junior tournament.

But please, scouting reports like that are just designed to get the oldddd crowd riled up with unbelievable expectations.

Ironically, it's crap like that contributes to the growing skepticism towards Leaf prospects and the tendency to call players busts well before they are given the chance to succeed.
Yes, we know. We are all taking this with a grain of salt. But the "Flames" post had numerous comments from Central Scouting folks etc. All prospects get hyped, but don't take it all so seriously.

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