Contract status: RFA in 2013 Current contract: 2yr, $1.69m ($845k/yr) Acquired: Waiver claim from Philadelphia, 11/29/2011
I get the sense that there is a split of opinion on Nodl. Some have argued that he is a solid defensive forward, not giving us much offensively but not costing us anything in his own end.
Personally, I can't see a single reason this guy shouldn't be a healthy scratch every game. Nothing against him, but why do we want someone in our top-9 who ensures that nothing happens when he is on the ice? Even a guy as borderline as Drayson Bowman came in and put up better offensive numbers in just over half the GP than Nodl, and not because he was floating around on defense.
Unless I'm really missing something that Nodl brings to the table, our RW depth chart should look like this:
Semin
Ruutu
LaRose
Dwyer
xNodl
xStewart
xSamson
So basically Nodl's role is to keep Stewart and Samson off the ice? I guess?
Insofar as forechecking is an important part of defense, he is.
I mean, you can't bring up hits as proof of defensive ability and then turn around and say Ruutu doesn't play defense.
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And LaRose was at one point, but not anymore.
LaRose is as much a defensive contributor as Nodl.
Even if we grant Nodl some kind of intangible defensive edge on these guys, there's no way his offense keeps him above their level. The only active-roster player that should see him as competition is Dwyer.
We have different definition of a defensive forward then. Ruutu and LaRose (more recently) have been put on the ice with the expectation of offensive contributions rather than defensive ones.
The opposite is true of Nodl and Dwyer. Their offensive contributions take a back seat in terms of importance, so long as their defensive contribution are steady.
I didn't understand why JR picked him up on the waiver wire, and I still don't understand it. He is so much like other players that were and are on the roster and doesn't offer anything that wasn't already there (from what I've seen at least). I don't dislike the guy. I don't even have any facepalm tendencies when he's on the ice. I also don't feel the need to prepare to celebrate when he's on the ice either.
If he were a color, it would be beige. Maybe that's too exotic, how about tan?
Since when does Nodl actually play RW? Does anyone watch the games besides me?
I assumed he would be there based on having his listed position changed this summer. Maybe he won't, but it seems like an odd thing to do arbitrarily.
If he stays on the left, just flip the same exact argument to the other side.
Skinner
Jokinen
Tlusty
Bowman
xNodl
Bowman is less clear-cut over him than Dwyer, but it doesn't make sense to continuously demote him back to Charlotte in order to keep Nodl in the lineup.
As far as the definition of "defensive forward", I've never before seen anyone suggest LaRose and Ruutu are out there to be one-dimensional scorers. I have a hard time believing you even believe that, BB.
If the Canes were up by 1 in the final seconds, and for whatever reason, we needed two RW (or LW or whoever) out there to defend the lead, you'd rather have Ruutu and LaRose out there rather than Dwyer and Nodl?
LaRose has been a -36 the past two years. Which is partially because he's playing over his head on the top two lines, but also because he's simply not a great defensive player anymore.
At one time, he and Dwyer were about the same player. Good, 3rd/4th line defensive-minded wingers. But LaRose got to spend time with Staal, thus making his offensive game more of a focus. Dwyer spent that same time on the bottom lines, focusing on his defensive game.
And there's a wide gap between calling LaRose/Ruutu "defensive wingers" and calling them "one dimensional scorers". Those aren't the only two options available. LaRose/Ruutu don't disregard defense to score (ala Skinner, Samsonov, etc), but they certainly don't make defense a priority (ala Dwyer, Nodl, Sutter).
If they were up 1 in the final seconds, I'd want some combination of Staalx2, Tlusty, Jokinen, Dwyer and Semin, if he's as good as advertised. Nodl vs. Larose/Ruutu is as irrelevant as it gets in that scenario. If Nodl gets sent out there, you're doing it wrong.
If the Canes were up by 1 in the final seconds, and for whatever reason, we needed two RW (or LW or whoever) out there to defend the lead, you'd rather have Ruutu and LaRose out there rather than Dwyer and Nodl?
I guess in that very narrow circumstance, Nodl is the better option. But there are 59 other minutes of hockey to be played before that situation arises, and at best Nodl offers nothing more than a neutral charge.
There's a reason that there aren't a ton of highly-respected defensive wingers in the league. Frankly, it's not a particularly demanding position. Wingers cover the defensemen in a set defensive situation, and very few defensemen in the NHL need better than average coverage. In defensive transition, wingers are the last guys on the backcheck due to the nature of their offensive responsibilities, so unless they're REALLY good they rarely have a major impact on a rush. Basically, if a winger has his head screwed on halfway straight he can play adequate defense (ie, every winger on our roster except Skinner).
The few wingers who are noted for their defense are usually either good offensively as well, or hard-assed forecheckers like Dustin Brown and Ruutu. Nodl is neither. He is literally on the ice to occupy his lane. That's not saying a whole lot, and it's undoubtedly why he was on waivers to begin with.
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And there's a wide gap between calling LaRose/Ruutu "defensive wingers" and calling them "one dimensional scorers". Those aren't the only two options available.
I agree. I was responding to your statement:
"Ruutu and LaRose (more recently) have been put on the ice with the expectation of offensive contributions rather than defensive ones. "
I would say that Ruutu and LaRose are both MUCH more valuable to this team when the opponent has the puck. The fact that they have been offensive cogs for the past couple of seasons has been out of pure necessity, added to the fact that unlike Nodl they are at least able to pretend to have an offensive game. As soon as we added two top-6 forwards to the roster, the necessity for a guy like LaRose to play offensive hockey disappeared.
Then, as I said before, we've got different definitions of a defensive winger.
If the primary expectation for the player when he's put on the ice is to contribute offensively, I wouldn't call that player a "defensive" anything. If they're expected to contribute offensively and defensively (as Jordan Staal is this upcoming season), then I'd call them a two-way player. That's probably where I'd put LaRose as well, though obviously his offense and his defense aren't on the same level, since he's generally put in the Top-6 when a line is in need of a guy that can backcheck (such as putting him with Staal when Staal struggled, or putting him with Jokinen and Skinner). But at the same time, he was expected to keep up with Staal/Skinner/etc. and contribute on the offensive side of the puck. Ruutu, I've never considered to be a defensive guy.
Then you have guys like Sutter, Dwyer, or to borrow some from other teams, Bolland and Pahlsson. They're put on the ice to stop opponents from scoring. They're defensive players. The expectations for them to contribute offensively are next to nothing. The same can't be said of LaRose and Ruutu. Ruutu was (rightfully) torn apart this season, because his offensive numbers were well below expectations. And everytime LaRose hits the Top-6, he's trashed because "he's not scoring". Neither one has that expectation of "defense first, score if the opportunity arises" that Sutter had these past couple seasons.
Then, as I said before, we've got different definitions of a defensive winger.
I think I understand the definitions at this point. The question is, do we really need ANOTHER defensive winger in this lineup? Defensive wingers are not commodities to be hoarded, unless they're particularly good, which Nodl isn't.
It's like having a one-way offensive winger who only scores 15 goals a year. Why?
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Then you have guys like Sutter, Dwyer, or to borrow some from other teams, Bolland and Pahlsson. They're put on the ice to stop opponents from scoring.
Right, and with the exception of Dwyer that is a group of elite defensive centers. The positional difference is significant. A defensive center has about double the impact of a defensive winger, unless that winger is really really good in some other facet of the game, in which case they're no longer considered "defensive" by your definition.
So basically, guys who you would consider true defensive wingers are about a step above backup goalies in usefulness, unless they are particularly elite, which Nodl isn't.
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They're defensive players. The expectations for them to contribute offensively are next to nothing. The same can't be said of LaRose and Ruutu. Ruutu was (rightfully) torn apart this season, because his offensive numbers were well below expectations. And everytime LaRose hits the Top-6, he's trashed because "he's not scoring". Neither one has that expectation of "defense first, score if the opportunity arises" that Sutter had these past couple seasons.
In LaRose's case, that's a matter of not having had proper personnel on our roster in the past. A player like LaRose should not be considered an offense-first player in the NHL. That's a Jim Rutherford Special for you.
As for Ruutu, I guess it's a matter of perspective about what "defense" involves. I guess you could call aggressive forechecking "offense", in which case he's an offensive forward. I think most people think of forechecking as a form of defense, in which case he's one of those two-way guys.
Well, if we've got the definitions down, I don't see the problem.
The top six will contain those wingers expected to contribute offensively (Semin, Jokinen, Ruutu, Skinner), and the bottom six will contain those wingers who's primary expectations is to contribute defensively (Tlusty, LaRose, Dwyer, and Nodl).
Now, Nodl could lose his spot to any one of the prospects that are always expected to step into a spot (Bowman, Samson, Sutter, etc), or the elusive "tough guy" that JR's apparently going to sign, but at the moment, I don't see the problem with him being the 4th line winger.
I assumed he would be there based on having his listed position changed this summer. Maybe he won't, but it seems like an odd thing to do arbitrarily.
I can guarantee the listed position change had nothing to do with anything in reality. It's NHL.com screwing around. Since when do players change their positions in the summer with no notice to anyone? What would seem odd is Andreas Nodl, a left-shooting LWer on a team who has 3 right-shooting right-wingers in the bottom six switching his position to make it more difficult to crack the lineup.
Skinner is still listed as a RW and has he ever played RW in the NHL? Alex Semin is a left-handed shot according to NHL.com...
