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Here comes the Union

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08-21-2012, 10:47 AM
  #26
Crottenham
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I'll get concerned when an actual legitimate player agent is involved in this CHLPA, when a real player is involved (to this point, I've heard that one player from Brampton was contacted and asked to be the OHL union president -- which is wonky all on its own), and when the league has been contacted.

I'll give the group behind this credit -- they have a lot of people talking about something that has very little chance of succeeding.

I'm curious how they expect to get 60% of players to sign on when 50% can't legally sign anything. Funny math, I suppose.
Probably the same way CHL teams have players sign standard contracts? With the advocacy of their parents......

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08-21-2012, 10:53 AM
  #27
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Probably the same way CHL teams have players sign standard contracts? With the advocacy of their parents......
I know the info will never get released but it would be quite interesting to see the voting (if it ever gets this far) break-down per CHL team.

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08-21-2012, 11:25 AM
  #28
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I'll get concerned when an actual legitimate player agent is involved in this CHLPA, when a real player is involved (to this point, I've heard that one player from Brampton was contacted and asked to be the OHL union president -- which is wonky all on its own), and when the league has been contacted.

I'll give the group behind this credit -- they have a lot of people talking about something that has very little chance of succeeding.

I'm curious how they expect to get 60% of players to sign on when 50% can't legally sign anything. Funny math, I suppose.
I find this the most interesting part of the whole thing. Half of these players are minors, do they get their parents to sign on their behalf? If they sign for themselves, is it legally binding?

The one thing is that this "story" is getting a lot of legs with the publicity.

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08-21-2012, 11:33 AM
  #29
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I find this the most interesting part of the whole thing. Half of these players are minors, do they get their parents to sign on their behalf? If they sign for themselves, is it legally binding?

The one thing is that this "story" is getting a lot of legs with the publicity.
Again, if a standard CHL Player's contract is binding (we all assume it is otherwise why do both parties partake in signing same) why wouldn't the same hold true for a minor (with presumably a parent's consent similiar to when he signs that player's contract) agreeing to join the CHLPA?

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08-21-2012, 11:37 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Crottenham View Post
Again, if a standard CHL Player's contract is binding (we all assume it is otherwise why do both parties partake in signing same) why wouldn't the same hold true for a minor (with presumably a parent's consent similiar to when he signs that player's contract) agreeing to join the CHLPA?
You're right, but that player's agent is also present. It'll be interesting to see how many agents support a union environment for their minor clients. Can you imagine the uproar if a work stoppage arises? If a union does actually come into being, how many teams will cut back on the services/equipment/perks they provide players now? What about a team who is fighting for a playoff spot - will they decline Hockey Canada's invitation on the player's behalf?

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08-21-2012, 11:37 AM
  #31
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Again, if a standard CHL Player's contract is binding (we all assume it is otherwise why do both parties partake in signing same) why wouldn't the same hold true for a minor (with presumably a parent's consent similiar to when he signs that player's contract) agreeing to join the CHLPA?
Just playing devil's advocate, if the CHL/OHL agrees that the players contract is valid and does not question it, but what if the CHL would take this CHLPA petition/formation to court? Would it be consider valid/legal?

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08-21-2012, 11:43 AM
  #32
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You're right, but that player's agent is also present. It'll be interesting to see how many agents support a union environment for their minor clients. Can you imagine the uproar if a work stoppage arises? If a union does actually come into being, how many teams will cut back on the services/equipment/perks they provide players now? What about a team who is fighting for a playoff spot - will they decline Hockey Canada's invitation on the player's behalf?
The players equipment/perks would be considered part of the existing work conditions and frozen in place until a collective bargaining agreement cements those details.

One can't "cut back" in the event the union is in fact certified. We're going through this right now with a newly ensconced union. Small shop, but major changes are happening.

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08-21-2012, 11:45 AM
  #33
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You're right, but that player's agent is also present. It'll be interesting to see how many agents support a union environment for their minor clients. Can you imagine the uproar if a work stoppage arises? If a union does actually come into being, how many teams will cut back on the services/equipment/perks they provide players now? What about a team who is fighting for a playoff spot - will they decline Hockey Canada's invitation on the player's behalf?
Sorry, forgot to mention what role does a player agent play when a contract is signed other than beaing a witness?

Legally, it would seem to me the contract is between the team and the player (if a minor, his legal guardian also signs).

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08-21-2012, 11:46 AM
  #34
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The players equipment/perks would be considered part of the existing work conditions and frozen in place until a collective bargaining agreement cements those details.

One can't "cut back" in the event the union is in fact certified. We're going through this right now with a newly ensconced union. Small shop, but major changes are happening.
Thats the thing teams will have to cut back if these numbers are true.

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08-21-2012, 11:59 AM
  #35
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Sorry, forgot to mention what role does a player agent play when a contract is signed other than beaing a witness?

Legally, it would seem to me the contract is between the team and the player (if a minor, his legal guardian also signs).
Witness, but moreso, advisor. You're right - an agent has no part of the contract itself.

At the moment, I haven't heard of a single agent with any knowledge of the PA, and as Tigers has said, why would any legitimate agent support a group that has no real ties or expertise, when they have a multitude at their disposal with the NHLPA?

Also, if this thing continues to get legs, how many teams will cut back on what they provide to players now, in advance of any certification process?

Hopefully, the only thing that comes out of this whole episode is that league mandates a higher weekly stipend to players, and perhaps looks at the rules surrounding education packages. If that's the case, this has been a success and can fade away into the woodwork where it belongs.

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08-21-2012, 12:05 PM
  #36
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Witness, but moreso, advisor. You're right - an agent has no part of the contract itself.

At the moment, I haven't heard of a single agent with any knowledge of the PA, and as Tigers has said, why would any legitimate agent support a group that has no real ties or expertise, when they have a multitude at their disposal with the NHLPA?

Also, if this thing continues to get legs, how many teams will cut back on what they provide to players now, in advance of any certification process?

Hopefully, the only thing that comes out of this whole episode is that league mandates a higher weekly stipend to players, and perhaps looks at the rules surrounding education packages. If that's the case, this has been a success and can fade away into the woodwork where it belongs.
I imagine some teams could try and cut back, but legally if a union is certified they would be obligated by law as I stated to ensure that all benefits that existed previously, continue to exist until a collective bargaining agreement is agreed upon.

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08-21-2012, 12:06 PM
  #37
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Witness, but moreso, advisor. You're right - an agent has no part of the contract itself.

At the moment, I haven't heard of a single agent with any knowledge of the PA, and as Tigers has said, why would any legitimate agent support a group that has no real ties or expertise, when they have a multitude at their disposal with the NHLPA?

Also, if this thing continues to get legs, how many teams will cut back on what they provide to players now, in advance of any certification process?

Hopefully, the only thing that comes out of this whole episode is that league mandates a higher weekly stipend to players, and perhaps looks at the rules surrounding education packages. If that's the case, this has been a success and can fade away into the woodwork where it belongs.
I would also think the players with bigtime agents or any agent will carry more weight in the discussions amongst the team.
I suspect this union attempt will fail with about a 12% for the union.

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08-21-2012, 12:25 PM
  #38
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I would imagine trying to contact a bunch of CHL players in mid-August is somewhat like trying to herd cats. In a month from now, you'd have better luck, but you're also assuming that teams will invite a union on site during a practice, game, or team meeting. Can you say "not a bleeping chance"?

This is not like a workplace where there are definite start and shift change times. Players are coming and going all day, so union representatives will be standing out in parking lots or street corners trying to identify the players they haven't already spoken with. Good luck with that.

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08-21-2012, 12:42 PM
  #39
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I just got off my lunch hour and sure enough on CBC radio I was listening to on the drive back to work were taking phone calls asking people that were connected to the CHL to phone in and give comments. They all said it was a good thing. I'm just scratching my head. I guess theese kids are treated soooo bad... what a bad life they have, they are sooooo exploided!!! My God it makes me sick!!! If players sign this on to themselves I'm only going to feel bad for the ones that didn't want it. For the others... careful what you ask for... you just might get it!

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08-21-2012, 01:03 PM
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I just got off my lunch hour and sure enough on CBC radio I was listening to on the drive back to work were taking phone calls asking people that were connected to the CHL to phone in and give comments. They all said it was a good thing. I'm just scratching my head. I guess theese kids are treated soooo bad... what a bad life they have, they are sooooo exploided!!! My God it makes me sick!!! If players sign this on to themselves I'm only going to feel bad for the ones that didn't want it. For the others... careful what you ask for... you just might get it!
There are some people that are so pro union they don't look at the big picture is a union right in this case is what they want ok or over the top i have said this many times the rumors of numbers the union wants really concerns me.

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08-21-2012, 01:55 PM
  #41
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There are some people that are so pro union they don't look at the big picture is a union right in this case is what they want ok or over the top i have said this many times the rumors of numbers the union wants really concerns me.
I'm hoping that the agents are able to talk to their players and lay out all the positives and negatives involved before anyone signs anything. If you tell any teenager - ANY teenager - that by signing this piece of paper, they're going to get more money every week, not a single one will decline.

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08-21-2012, 01:58 PM
  #42
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I'm hoping that the agents are able to talk to their players and lay out all the positives and negatives involved before anyone signs anything. If you tell any teenager - ANY teenager - that by signing this piece of paper, they're going to get more money every week, not a single one will decline.
I just hope its all made very clear to the players like you said the negatives and positives but make it clear that this could hurt the team and leagues plus the fans may not take this very well.

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08-21-2012, 02:13 PM
  #43
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I just hope its all made very clear to the players like you said the negatives and positives but make it clear that this could hurt the team and leagues plus the fans may not take this very well.
The parents will be the key lynchpins here. Where will these teenagers turn to for advice? Their mom and dad.

You're showing your bias on that last line. Not sure anyone could know for sure.

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08-21-2012, 02:20 PM
  #44
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'George Laraque signs on as Executive Director of the CHLPA' via @TheCHL

In their first announcement, they spelt the new 'Executive Director's' name wrong.

Anyone else still think this is legit? lol

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08-21-2012, 02:24 PM
  #45
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'George Laraque signs on as Executive Director of the CHLPA' via @TheCHL

In their first announcement, they spelt the new 'Executive Director's' name wrong.

Anyone else still think this is legit? lol
But, but, but... they joined Facebook on Sunday!!!!!!!!!!!

If this is a complete ruse (and I believe it is), someone is going to a hell of a lot of work and effort on it.

Guess mid-August is kinda boring...

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08-21-2012, 02:26 PM
  #46
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The parents will be the key lynchpins here. Where will these teenagers turn to for advice? Their mom and dad.

You're showing your bias on that last line. Not sure anyone could know for sure.
If you look at the rumors in terms of what the union would get it would be very hard for some teams to last under that type of system.

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08-21-2012, 02:32 PM
  #47
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If you look at the rumors in terms of what the union would get it would be very hard for some teams to last under that type of system.
Unions generally don't care about those little things like employers being able to turn a profit! Sorry, showed my bias there....LOL

P.S. I would suggest everyone should tread carefully in assuming this is not for real given some of the most recent comments. Where there is smoke, there is usually fire. Life is complicated that way.

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08-21-2012, 02:32 PM
  #48
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But, but, but... they joined Facebook on Sunday!!!!!!!!!!!

If this is a complete ruse (and I believe it is), someone is going to a hell of a lot of work and effort on it.

Guess mid-August is kinda boring...
I guess the CHLPA is also ignoring this interesting piece of news as well....

'Laraque fired under fraud allegations'
http://www.torontosun.com/2012/07/09...ud-allegations

Hes the face of this thing? No vote by the players? Really?

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08-21-2012, 02:41 PM
  #49
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Unions generally don't care about those little things like employers being able to turn a profit! Sorry, showed my bias there....LOL

P.S. I would suggest everyone should tread carefully in assuming this is not for real given some of the most recent comments. Where there is smoke, there is usually fire. Life is complicated that way.
So if these numbers are true you support it?

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08-21-2012, 02:42 PM
  #50
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I guess the CHLPA is also ignoring this interesting piece of news as well....

'Laraque fired under fraud allegations'
http://www.torontosun.com/2012/07/09...ud-allegations

Hes the face of this thing? No vote by the players? Really?
Dig deeper. Last I looked there were counter-suits on both sides. Judging by hockey's history with the likes of Alan Eagleson et al, not sure being involved in a court action necessarily precludes you from being involved in something like this.

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