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Around the League 2012-12 I: Gary and Donald sitting in a tree

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Old
10-18-2012, 10:16 PM
  #251
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chet1926 View Post
Excuse me for not feeling a bit pissed at the NHLPA. They are grown-ups making millions to play a kids game that they love for a living and they are crying poor.

They made a choice to go play in the NHL, you are right there is a lot of travel and they have to be away from their families a lot, but guess what they made that decision. No one is holding a gun to their heads and telling them they have to play. If its so bad quit a get a different job. There are lots of everyday Joe's that have to travel a lot for a living. For example my sister is auditor for a major company. She has a husband and a kid, and she is on the road 2 weeks every month. And she sure as hell doesn't make over a million a year and works considerably harder than any NHLer, but she does it so her family can have a decent life, and she knows that if she doesn't want to do that anymore or she thinks she is being used by her employer she needs to quit and find something else.

I work my butt off every single day I work at minimum 50 hr weeks which is way more than any NHLer works, I don't make a ton of money, but I don't complain. I sure as hell, do what my bosses tell me to do. If I want a raise I go talk to my boss and he has the right to say yes or no. If he says no, I don't get to go on strike. My choices are deal with it or quit.

So sorry if I don't sympathize with the players. All them have better lives than 99.9% of us, but yet they still complain. I don't know how any of us could side with the players at this point. Think about this way even if they had to take a 15% pay cut (this would never happen) players like Matt Duchene would still make 5.95 Million on his contract instead of 7 Million. I don't know about you but I could retire at age 26 and never work again on almost 6 Million. Plus you think back to his last contract and at age 21 he has probably banked over 12M by the age of 21. Yeah I feel real sympathy. even like Cody McCleod have probably banked 5M over his career.

At this point the players are coming off as arrogant punks who are being fed poor information from a chump leader. The even sadder part is the NHLPA is being fed even worse information from probably 50 or so players (the highest paid players like Crosby and Toews). The lockout isn't going to affect them like it is a player like Cody McCleod. I guarantee you players like him are fuming mad, because they just want to play and get paid their checks because they "need" the money more. If players like McCleod were at these meetings a a deal would have been struck by now.
Amen bro, great post!!!!!

Though Chet I know you are passionate about this subject, but I don't think D2M was harsh against the owners as well. He might have a different opinion on this subject, but the first sentence was a little bit too strong.

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10-18-2012, 10:28 PM
  #252
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Originally Posted by S E P H View Post
Amen bro, great post!!!!!

Though Chet I know you are passionate about this subject, but I don't think D2M was harsh against the owners as well. He might have a different opinion on this subject, but the first sentence was a little bit too strong.
I know D2M wasn't siding with anyone in particular, but I'm just sick of people feeling sympathy for super wealthy individuals who get to do what they love everyday who cry poor. When there are so many of us that work our butts off at jobs that don't pay real well just to make all our ends meet.

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10-18-2012, 10:58 PM
  #253
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I don't feel sorry for the players, I just know they play for the money first.

The difference between you and an NHL chet is your boss can replace you in a second while only a limited number of people can do what NHL players do. If you think you're worth more than what your being paid, you can go on strike if you have a union and enough people backing you up. The players aren't on strike anyway, they offered to play another year under the old CBA Bettman and the owners refused.

I already went over the childhood "game" these privileged athletes play. In short it's a job and a business now. I'm pretty sure some nights the last thing players want to do is play a game of hockey but they do it anyway, just like the rest of us working stiffs.

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10-18-2012, 11:54 PM
  #254
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I'm pissed at the NHLPA because they are not negotiating. Every offer from them has them being guaranteed to make the $1.87 billion they do now as a collective . Then they offer this in some different flavors. The latest being a 50/50 split that is delinked from HRR and where current contracts are guaranteed. The idea is absurd, but still we have thick players trumpeting this as them being the constructive party.

Basically NHLPA has suggested that 57% of HHR is shrunk to 50% without the players making a single cent less tomorrow than today. I know hockey players are stupid, but even they should be able to see that it doesn't add up.

I know they are smugly claiming that their sides are coming up with creative ideas to solve the leagues problems. It's not hard to be creative when you ignore reality.


Last edited by Freudian: 10-19-2012 at 12:24 AM.
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10-19-2012, 01:37 PM
  #255
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Originally Posted by chet1926 View Post
Excuse me for not feeling a bit pissed at the NHLPA. They are grown-ups making millions to play a kids game that they love for a living and they are crying poor.

They made a choice to go play in the NHL, you are right there is a lot of travel and they have to be away from their families a lot, but guess what they made that decision. No one is holding a gun to their heads and telling them they have to play. If its so bad quit a get a different job. There are lots of everyday Joe's that have to travel a lot for a living. For example my sister is auditor for a major company. She has a husband and a kid, and she is on the road 2 weeks every month. And she sure as hell doesn't make over a million a year and works considerably harder than any NHLer, but she does it so her family can have a decent life, and she knows that if she doesn't want to do that anymore or she thinks she is being used by her employer she needs to quit and find something else.

I work my butt off every single day I work at minimum 50 hr weeks which is way more than any NHLer works, I don't make a ton of money, but I don't complain. I sure as hell, do what my bosses tell me to do. If I want a raise I go talk to my boss and he has the right to say yes or no. If he says no, I don't get to go on strike. My choices are deal with it or quit.

So sorry if I don't sympathize with the players. All them have better lives than 99.9% of us, but yet they still complain. I don't know how any of us could side with the players at this point. Think about this way even if they had to take a 15% pay cut (this would never happen) players like Matt Duchene would still make 5.95 Million on his contract instead of 7 Million. I don't know about you but I could retire at age 26 and never work again on almost 6 Million. Plus you think back to his last contract and at age 21 he has probably banked over 12M by the age of 21. Yeah I feel real sympathy. even like Cody McCleod have probably banked 5M over his career.

At this point the players are coming off as arrogant punks who are being fed poor information from a chump leader. The even sadder part is the NHLPA is being fed even worse information from probably 50 or so players (the highest paid players like Crosby and Toews). The lockout isn't going to affect them like it is a player like Cody McCleod. I guarantee you players like him are fuming mad, because they just want to play and get paid their checks because they "need" the money more. If players like McCleod were at these meetings a a deal would have been struck by now.
The thing I never understand, is why people always try to compare themselves, and their work to being an NHL hockey player. They are most likely completely different situations.

NHL hockey players are the most talented, extreme cream of the crop, best in their profession which when they do what they do, the public is willing to hand over millions to team owners just to watch them.

This isn't comparable to the regular average joe 9-5 job. Unless you are both the best in the world at your profession, AND your profession is something the public is willing to pay millions just to observe.

And this doesn't even take into account the fact that their profession requires them to be away from their family, most likely not have a solid education for the future, and forces them to risk serious bodily, and mental harm every game. Especially with the concussion rate, and the psychological affect we've seen in what enforcers have to go through just to do their job.

These are things that are not involved in your 9 to 5 office job, where if your boss asked you to take a paycut, and you said you were willing, but didn't want to take a HUGE paycut since he just made you take one a few years ago, you would be replaced in a second if you tried to fight it.

All of this is in the name of the owners trying to rig a system where they are guaranteed to make money. They complain about all the risk they have to take in investments to run an NHL team, that the players don't share. I'm sorry, but isn't that part of running a business? You don't see the players complaining all the time about the physical and mental risk of playing hockey to make you money. It's a completely different level of shameless greed that the owners want to hold every one hostage, so they can run their business however they like, and no one runs the risk of losing money.

The PA believe's they want a fair cut, and however you feel about what they've done in negotiations, I have a hard time seeing why anyone would think they would be more greedy than the billionaire owners. Especially when the players conceded so much the last time, and every year since then Bettman has bragged about record revenues, and now they are insisting they need more. They are the ones asking for MORE. The players are the ones willing to GIVE, but don't want to give too much.


Last edited by Foppa2118: 10-19-2012 at 04:11 PM.
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Old
10-19-2012, 01:37 PM
  #256
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Every time you think something good will happen in the lockout, it gets slammed shut again.

Seriously, the NHL & players shouldn't be surprised to see half-empty arenas when they decide to come back. Fans are totally getting the screw job & are the real victims of this. What do we get once they finally agree on a deal? Oh yea...

- Expensive tickets
- Expensive merchandise
- An expensive Center Ice TV package

A real "win/win" for us puck heads right?

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10-19-2012, 02:44 PM
  #257
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iAvs View Post
Every time you think something good will happen in the lockout, it gets slammed shut again.

Seriously, the NHL & players shouldn't be surprised to see half-empty arenas when they decide to come back. Fans are totally getting the screw job & are the real victims of this. What do we get once they finally agree on a deal? Oh yea...

- Expensive tickets
- Expensive merchandise
- An expensive Center Ice TV package

A real "win/win" for us puck heads right?
They should just offer this up for free when they get back. Just one season to make us happy. Wont happen though. So yah we get screwed.

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10-19-2012, 03:22 PM
  #258
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Originally Posted by Foppa2118 View Post
The thing I never understand, is why people always try to compare themselves, and their work to being an NHL hockey player. They are most likely completely different situations.

NHL hockey players are the most talented, extreme cream of the crop, best in their profession which when they do what they do, the public is willing to hand over millions to team owners just to watch them.

THis isn't comparable to the regular average joe 9-5 job. Unless you are both the best in the world at your profession, AND your profession is something the public is willing to pay millions just to observe.

And this doesn't even take into account the fact that their profession requires them to be away from their family, most likely not have a solid education for the future, and forces them to risk serious bodily, and mental harm every game. Especially with the concussion rate, and the psychological affect we've seen with both that, and what the enforcers have to go through just to do their job.

These are things that are not involved in your 9 to 5 office job, where if your boss asked you to take a paycut, and you said you were willing, but didn't want to take a HUGE paycut because he just made you take one a few years ago, you would be replaced in a second if you tried to fight it.

All of this is the name of the owners trying to rig a system where they are guaranteed to make money. They complain about all the risk they have to take in investments to run an NHL team, that the players don't share. I'm sorry, but isn't that part of running a business? You don't see the players complaining all the time about the physical and mental risk of playing hockey to make you money. It's a completely different level of shameless greed that the owners want to hold every one hostage, so they can run their business however they like, and no one runs the risk of losing money.

The PA believe's they want a fair cut, and however you feel about what they've done in negotiations, I have a hard to seeing why anyone would think they would be more greedy than the billionaire owners. Especially when the players conceded so much the last time, and every year since then Bettman has bragged about record revenues, and now they are insisting they need more. They are the ones asking for MORE. The players are the ones willing to GIVE, but don't want to give too much.
Unfortunately the point you seem to be missing is no matter how you slice it the NHL is a business. No matter how much they make how talented/specialized they are etc. these players/employees are they are still employees with bosses. Just like the vast majority of us "normals".

And in reality the bosses get paid more and get to set the rules. And if you don't like the rules or you don't like the travel or you don't like the fact that you didn't get enough education or you don't like that your job could cause physical harm, then change it. Quit. These players know the gig before they get into it, just like us normals know the gig at our work before we sign on.

People in the real world take "rollbacks" all the time, that's life it happens. You don't like the rollbacks, Quit get a new job. There is no difference between the real world and the hockey world when it comes to this. Not everybody gets raises all of the time, that is life. You are also right that if you tried to fight it you'd be fired. The funny part is people act like these players are irreplaceable, when that couldn't further from the truth. There are thousands of quality hockey players around the world, that would kill for an opportunity to play in this league for half the cost that the NHL players do currently. Sure one could argue the products quality would go down but you'd get used to it and guess what I'd still cheer for the Avs, because I cheer for the team not an individual player or 2. The even funnier part is if you got replacement players, you'd start to get current NHLers to defect because they just want to play because most players realize what an awesome opportunity they have on a consistent basis.

Don't get me wrong I have no problem with the amount of money a player makes, I do have a problem with a player making 3M+ crying poor. The fact of the matter is that in the long run the difference between 3M and 2.8M is very little, your still filthy rich and will still be able to retire nicely at age 35 or so. Now I could understand the players if the owners were trying to take a 3M contract and turn it into a 500K contract, then I would understand the anger from the players. But my first example is closer to what is reality. Poor me I only get to make 2.8M instead of 3M, doesn't sound to bad to me. No matter what the players are not getting screwed even if they have to work for a reduced salary. They are still going to get paid a bunch, to work a job that is fun to go to most days. At this point they are fighting for pennies on the dollar. It would be like me fighting back due to a 5 cent per hour rollback. Its just not worth it.

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10-19-2012, 03:50 PM
  #259
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foppa2118 View Post
The thing I never understand, is why people always try to compare themselves, and their work to being an NHL hockey player. They are most likely completely different situations.

NHL hockey players are the most talented, extreme cream of the crop, best in their profession which when they do what they do, the public is willing to hand over millions to team owners just to watch them.

THis isn't comparable to the regular average joe 9-5 job. Unless you are both the best in the world at your profession, AND your profession is something the public is willing to pay millions just to observe.

And this doesn't even take into account the fact that their profession requires them to be away from their family, most likely not have a solid education for the future, and forces them to risk serious bodily, and mental harm every game. Especially with the concussion rate, and the psychological affect we've seen with both that, and what the enforcers have to go through just to do their job.

These are things that are not involved in your 9 to 5 office job, where if your boss asked you to take a paycut, and you said you were willing, but didn't want to take a HUGE paycut because he just made you take one a few years ago, you would be replaced in a second if you tried to fight it.

All of this is the name of the owners trying to rig a system where they are guaranteed to make money. They complain about all the risk they have to take in investments to run an NHL team, that the players don't share. I'm sorry, but isn't that part of running a business? You don't see the players complaining all the time about the physical and mental risk of playing hockey to make you money. It's a completely different level of shameless greed that the owners want to hold every one hostage, so they can run their business however they like, and no one runs the risk of losing money.

The PA believe's they want a fair cut, and however you feel about what they've done in negotiations, I have a hard to seeing why anyone would think they would be more greedy than the billionaire owners. Especially when the players conceded so much the last time, and every year since then Bettman has bragged about record revenues, and now they are insisting they need more. They are the ones asking for MORE. The players are the ones willing to GIVE, but don't want to give too much.

The top software engineers at both Google and Facebook make $116,000. They make much for their company than players do and require a much more specific skill and a lot more work.

NHL players are entitled punks.

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10-19-2012, 04:01 PM
  #260
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i'm thinking out loud here ...

I've been watching the whole thing the last few weeks and a scary question came in mind at one point . Would it be possible that Donald Fehr have a secret agenda and this agenda would be to remove the salary cap completely from the new CBA ?

Last week, he threated the NHL about it and i have to admit that i am scare that it was his game plan all along. Keep in mind that he comes from the MLB and there are no cap in that league. what do you guys think ?

Also on another point ,

the players got their feelings hurt because the owners refused their 3 propositions in a matter of minutes without giving them any times to think about it . How come no one asked the players how they were able to make 3 propositions in a single afternoon. I mean they said that the owners didnt take times to think about it . i'm asking maybe the players didnt take the time to make some good and different propostions ? Idk maybe i'm in the left feild about that last point , but that's something that i thought about right away.


Anyway the current situation really sucks . But i guess that's exactly what you can expect when you hope that NHL problems can be resolve by a guy from the NBA and another from the MLB ... and after that , we wonder why we dont have any hockey

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10-19-2012, 04:13 PM
  #261
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A season without pay, or a season away in Europe from their families, and certain players will start pressuring the NHLPA. Right now, most players would be well and truly cashed up, riding around in their sports cars, and having an extended holiday in their condos playing golf etc.

Heck, some players may be ardent investors, and have huge mortgages, and may be having to sell assets to satisfy The Bank.

Lots of people tend to live to their means, week by week, regardless of salary.

Also, the above still doesn't mean I feel sorry for them. The NHLPA is the voice of the players. Just seeing Fehr speak to the media / public annoys me. He just comes off repugnant, as though he's enjoying the whole deal.

There is one major goal for Bettman and the NHLPA, and that is that Hockey is played, and the game grows and is healthy. They have both failed in that area, and should be held to account for such, and immediately fired.

I also wouldn't mind a few players being de-registered (ring leaders if you will). We may lose some talent, but my hope is they'd be replaced by players with passion and heart.

I'd much rather watch players who want to play above all else, than those scrapping for the last amount of coin, who are on 36k per day, 365 days per year.

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10-19-2012, 04:21 PM
  #262
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Do these players realize losing out on the whole season is much more than getting there salaries "guaranteed"?

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10-19-2012, 04:46 PM
  #263
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Do these players realize losing out on the whole season is much more than getting there salaries "guaranteed"?
I think reason and rational thinking has been thrown out the window ever since the 1st game was cancelled.

It's all about "fairness" and principles at this point.

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10-19-2012, 04:59 PM
  #264
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Unfortunately the point you seem to be missing is no matter how you slice it the NHL is a business. No matter how much they make how talented/specialized they are etc. these players/employees are they are still employees with bosses. Just like the vast majority of us "normals".

And in reality the bosses get paid more and get to set the rules. And if you don't like the rules or you don't like the travel or you don't like the fact that you didn't get enough education or you don't like that your job could cause physical harm, then change it. Quit. These players know the gig before they get into it, just like us normals know the gig at our work before we sign on.

People in the real world take "rollbacks" all the time, that's life it happens. You don't like the rollbacks, Quit get a new job. There is no difference between the real world and the hockey world when it comes to this. Not everybody gets raises all of the time, that is life. You are also right that if you tried to fight it you'd be fired. The funny part is people act like these players are irreplaceable, when that couldn't further from the truth. There are thousands of quality hockey players around the world, that would kill for an opportunity to play in this league for half the cost that the NHL players do currently. Sure one could argue the products quality would go down but you'd get used to it and guess what I'd still cheer for the Avs, because I cheer for the team not an individual player or 2. The even funnier part is if you got replacement players, you'd start to get current NHLers to defect because they just want to play because most players realize what an awesome opportunity they have on a consistent basis.

Don't get me wrong I have no problem with the amount of money a player makes, I do have a problem with a player making 3M+ crying poor. The fact of the matter is that in the long run the difference between 3M and 2.8M is very little, your still filthy rich and will still be able to retire nicely at age 35 or so. Now I could understand the players if the owners were trying to take a 3M contract and turn it into a 500K contract, then I would understand the anger from the players. But my first example is closer to what is reality. Poor me I only get to make 2.8M instead of 3M, doesn't sound to bad to me. No matter what the players are not getting screwed even if they have to work for a reduced salary. They are still going to get paid a bunch, to work a job that is fun to go to most days. At this point they are fighting for pennies on the dollar. It would be like me fighting back due to a 5 cent per hour rollback. Its just not worth it.
I'm sorry but I can't agree with this. First of all the players aren't like normal employees. They are the PRODUCT. Are you the product your company sells? The employees are the ones that work in the team front offices. The ones that run the business operations. That's comparable to what we all do. There's almost no real life comparison to the players who are both the product, and the employee, and if there is it's not a business that brings in hundreds of millions of dollars.

The players are far and away the biggest expense for an NHL team. The rest is peanuts. You start rolling back their salary 10-20% and it's the biggest rip off ever, in terms of operating costs vs revenue. It would be like if Apple rigged the system so that it costs them pennies to make an iPhone, instead of the $200+ in operating costs it takes now, and kept their prices the same with the public and the carriers.

The idea that if they don't like the travel and the risks they can quit doesn't have to do with anything. It doesn't mean they should accept being paid an unfair amount, when they are the product, just so the owners can set up a system where they're guaranteed to make money. That's not how a regular business operates within it's market. If a business rigged the system like that in the real world, they would have multiple lawsuits filed on them and get put out of business.

And the players are the ones that are crying poor? They're the ones GIVING MORE. The owners are the ones TAKING MORE. And the owners have 100x more money than any NHL player does. And this is after the last lockout where they caved and GAVE EVERYTHING the owners wanted. And the players are the ones being greedy, and fighting over a few hundred thousand?

They made record profits, and now they want MORE. And the players are still willing to give. It's about principle. It's about the next lockout. You think Bettman is gonna go into the next lockout and be like, "well you gave us a good amount last time, so we won't try to get the most we can out of you now." If he was gonna negotiate like that, he would have done that this time since they gave him the world last time.

Instead they're working with someone who's first offer is 43% (essentially another 24% rollback) UFA goes up from 7 seasons to 10, a max of five years on contracts, no more salary arbitration, and entry level deals are 5 years not 3. What's his offer gonna be when he forces another lockout next time? 29%, 10 year entry level deals, salary arbitration for the teams but not players, and UFA age is 15 seasons in? How can you not dig in when negotiating with this guy?

This isn't even factoring in what kind of job they're gonna get when they get past 30 or 40, and all they did their whole life was play hockey. Sure they could get a media or team job if they were one of the few that went to college, or have a marketable name. But what about the vast majority that are just hockey players. The owners go on making billions sitting in their cushy chair, running their business with no risks. The rest of the 3rd-4th liners in the league sit on their hands hoping they can find jobs here and there, and support their family for the rest of their life with the few million they ended up with, while inflation and the cost of living go up decade after decade. It's better than most of our situations, but it's not the simplistic spoiled millionaire situation people make it out to be.

You see the cars and houses these guys live in? Outside of Teemu Selanne and Ovechkin, these guys are driving $40-50k cars, and living in upper middle class homes because they're following the plan their agents give them, and investing and saving for their future after hockey. What kind of car and house(s) you think Stan Kroenke has?

Sure there are thousands of other hockey players in the world. But who's gonna pay to go see em? Who's gonna pay $200 for a Patrick Bordeleau jersey? What TV network is gonna fork over $2 billion to cover the AHL? Who's gonna pay $100+ for AHL center ice? And if they did, would that be fair the owners are making so much more than the players who are both the product and the employees and the promoters of the sport?

Sure a few hundred thousand doesn't sound like much when they are making millions. But you have to realize that salary number isn't what they end up with. After taxes and everything it's like half that number. Still a big number, but when you factor in the physical risk, the mental risk, the constant road trips away from family, the instability of living environment, the lack of education, the lack of work experience outside of hockey, the fact they're the product, the employees, and promote the sport for their owners, and they gave them everything they wanted last time, and are still willing to give a little more this time, then I dont' think you can paint them as just spoiled kids playing a sport.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanklite View Post
The top software engineers at both Google and Facebook make $116,000. They make much for their company than players do and require a much more specific skill and a lot more work.

NHL players are entitled punks.
All you did was compare one of the aspects I mentioned. The top software engineers aren't constantly on the road, don't risk the same bodily and mental injuries, no one wants a $200 Joe Schmo white collar shirt, and most importantly no one would pay $50-100 multiple times a year just to see them write code.

Each profession gets more or less paid in accordance to their role and how much money the business takes in. Google has 2500 employees. Facebook 3500. NHL teams have less than 500 employees from the top down.

This would be a closer analagy if you just compared the merchandise NHL teams sell, but that isn't even the main product each team business is selling. The players are the product. This is the difference. The software engineers at google and facebook aren't the product. The top software engineers are the scouts and coaches that shape their product into the best it can be.


Last edited by Foppa2118: 10-19-2012 at 06:01 PM.
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10-19-2012, 05:18 PM
  #265
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I also wouldn't mind a few players being de-registered (ring leaders if you will). We may lose some talent, but my hope is they'd be replaced by players with passion and heart.

I'd much rather watch players who want to play above all else, than those scrapping for the last amount of coin, who are on 36k per day, 365 days per year.
Yeah, those players don't exist. It's just a figment of fans imagination. These players have more heart and passion for the game than most on HF.

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10-20-2012, 05:13 PM
  #266
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I just find it funny that people think the NHL is gonna lose out a lot when it comes back. Yeah, maybe a bit at first. You've got some people who are the real sticklers for customer services. And then you've got the rational 99 percent who just want the best product out there, regardless of how they feel about the customers.

If any of us actually cared about the customer service, we'd be watching professional lacrosse and minor league hockey, where they do things like fan outreach and drinking a beer with the players is an actual possibility. Oh, and tickets for ****** teams like the Avs don't cost at least $30.

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10-20-2012, 05:14 PM
  #267
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The top software engineers at both Google and Facebook make $116,000. They make much for their company than players do and require a much more specific skill and a lot more work.

NHL players are entitled punks.
I wish I could make $116,000 sitting on my ass staring at a computer screen all day.

Software engineers are entitled punks.

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10-25-2012, 08:24 PM
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Its so nice to read articles like this one about the lockout. Its a must read, its a Custance article interviewing Buffalo's Ryan Miller. And he basically calls out everyone involved in this BS situation. I actually have never been a Miller fan but he is now gaining some of my respect. If article doesn't prove that Fehr is only out to make money for himself and doesn't give a **** about the players, then I don't know what will.

Here is a link

http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/85...ying-elsewhere

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10-25-2012, 08:39 PM
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I wish I could make $116,000 sitting on my ass staring at a computer screen all day.

Software engineers are entitled punks.
Those stupid software engineers, making things that people use everyday!

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10-26-2012, 05:32 AM
  #270
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I think reason and rational thinking has been thrown out the window ever since the 1st game was cancelled.

It's all about "fairness" and principles at this point.
No it's not, it's about winning and not caving in.

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10-26-2012, 12:11 PM
  #271
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No it's not, it's about winning and not caving in.
Well with principles I meant that (i.e. players think they got screwed over last time, not happening again, owners think they should (and I think rightfully) have the upper hand)).

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10-26-2012, 12:15 PM
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My job isn't anything comparable to a NHL player. And that's because I don't belong to a union.

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10-26-2012, 01:54 PM
  #273
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My job isn't anything comparable to a NHL player. And that's because I don't belong to a union.
I think you picked the least important aspect of why your job is different than an NHL player. Well that and I'm assuming you don't wear blades on your feet to work.

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10-26-2012, 02:09 PM
  #274
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Originally Posted by chet1926 View Post
Its so nice to read articles like this one about the lockout. Its a must read, its a Custance article interviewing Buffalo's Ryan Miller. And he basically calls out everyone involved in this BS situation. I actually have never been a Miller fan but he is now gaining some of my respect. If article doesn't prove that Fehr is only out to make money for himself and doesn't give a **** about the players, then I don't know what will.

Here is a link

http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/85...ying-elsewhere
I think that kind of shows how we view things. To me that article was all about Miller explaining that they are the only ones making concessions after record revenue, and future expansion fees coming that the players won't get a taste of. I don't see much calling out about Fehr, except the ego comment which I saw as more of a general comment that everyone is already thinking.

They gave the moon in the last negotiation. The league had 7 years of record revenue. They got a 10 year $2 billion deal from NBC. It's becoming more clear every day that the league will bing in two new expansion franchises, and probably relocate at least one team, all of which bring in about $100M each that the players don't get a penny of.

And the owners are asking the players to make all the concessions in the deal, that they recently pulled from the table, so now they are posturing like they are going to be asking for more even more. The only thing offered to the players in return for making all the concessions is that they will get a neutral 3rd party arbitrator to handle appeals on discipline, which should have been in place already to be honest.

Feel however you like about what percent you think is fair for the players to take, that is not the way to negotiate. You don't say, I know we've made the most money ever these last seven years, and I know we're not gonna share any of the $300 or so million in relocation fees with you, but this deal just isn't fair to us, you need to give us everything, and we're not gonna offer you any improvements in return. They're a month into the loockout, and the league still hasn't offered anything in return for the players making all the concessions.

How is that a negotiation? None of you guys would make a stand on the principle of not being treated like a complete b*tch? For the second time in a row?

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10-26-2012, 02:52 PM
  #275
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Lockout is finally starting to bother me...

Not too bad, it does give me more time at the gym and I'm in less of a rush to get home to watch a game and I'm not missing as much sleep. But I am missing the whole NHL experience, NHL 13 can't continue to stave it off for much longer.

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