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Fuhr and Anderson to the Leafs

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Old
08-21-2012, 09:42 AM
  #1
Stephen
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Fuhr and Anderson to the Leafs

One of the biggest Leafs trades in the early 90s occurred when Cliff Fletcher traded a young Vincent Damphousse, Luke Richardson, Peter Ing and Scott Thornton to Edmonton in exchange for Glenn Anderson, Grant Fuhr and Craig Berube in 1991.

At the time, the Leafs basically traded a young star in Damphousse and two recent first rounders from 1987 and 1989 to get an aging scorer in Anderson and a number one goalie in Fuhr to stabilize the goaltending position.

The trade paid short term dividends for Toronto, as Anderson participated in the 1993 run to the semi finals, and the following year, they made it back to the third round with Mike Gartner, whom the Leafs received in exchange for Anderson from New York.

Grant Fuhr put in a couple of years with Toronto, before being supplanted by Felix Potvin. Fuhr's return in 1993 included Dave Andreychuk, Daren Puppa, and a 1st round pick, which turned out to be Kenny Jonsson.

By the end of the 1996 season however, none of Gartner, Andreychuk or Jonsson would still be in Toronto, as they were all spun off in salary dumps or otherwise traded away.

All things considered, would the Leafs have done better had they kept their homegrown players? Damphousse was the only real gem of the bunch. Would his presence in place of Anderson/Gartner and Andreychuk been more useful to Toronto throughout the 90s? And also, the blueline would have had a big bruising presence in Luke Richardson, while Scott Thornton would have blossomed into a good checking winger in the late 90s. How might have things worked out differently had this trade not happened for Toronto?

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08-21-2012, 09:52 AM
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It's funny, because I was looking at that trade just yesterday. I think it worked out to be pretty even. In the end the Leafs parlayed the deal into Andreychuck, a big piece of the early 90s success and had great chemistry with Gilmour.

All the traded Leafs players, except Ing, became useful NHLers and had long careers.

To me, the addition of Andreychuck made the deal great for the Leafs.

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08-21-2012, 09:54 AM
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It's funny, because I was looking at that trade just yesterday. I think it worked out to be pretty even. In the end the Leafs parlayed the deal into Andreychuck, a big piece of the early 90s success and had great chemistry with Gilmour.

All the traded Leafs players, except Ing, became useful NHLers and had long careers.

To me, the addition of Andreychuck made the deal great for the Leafs.
I didn't like the trade a great deal.

However, it did land Andreychuk, who was probably the key piece long term.

Damphousse would have received much more acclaim had he accomplished in Toronto what he did elsewhere. IMO the best player in the deal.

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08-21-2012, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by crump View Post
It's funny, because I was looking at that trade just yesterday. I think it worked out to be pretty even. In the end the Leafs parlayed the deal into Andreychuck, a big piece of the early 90s success and had great chemistry with Gilmour.

All the traded Leafs players, except Ing, became useful NHLers and had long careers.

To me, the addition of Andreychuck made the deal great for the Leafs.
Yeah I agree it was pretty even, though it's unfortunate they basically wheeled themselves out of all the returns by the mid 90s. I guess they would have lost some scoring depth with just Damphousse instead of Anderson/Gartner and Andreychuk, but they could have also been fresher for those playoff runs...

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08-21-2012, 11:10 AM
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Damphousse is the only part that matters. The Leafs could've had Richardson or Thornton back by the time they got good and without the trade they still likely would've done their best work elsewhere after being dropped here. Both had some decent years as late bloomers, but that trading sequence turned out as well as it could when you move Damphousse for older vets. At least it went well right up until one of the two times the Leafs made Millbury look good and sent them Jonsson (along with the freaking Luongo pick for beloved Wendy).

I'd say right up until that moment it was a nice usage of talent. Youth for now, then back again, but they absolutely demolished themselves against the worst GM in modern sports. Okay, second to Rob Babcock, but still.

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08-21-2012, 11:17 AM
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Damphousse is the only part that matters. The Leafs could've had Richardson or Thornton back by the time they got good and without the trade they still likely would've done their best work elsewhere after being dropped here. Both had some decent years as late bloomers, but that trading sequence turned out as well as it could when you move Damphousse for older vets. At least it went well right up until one of the two times the Leafs made Millbury look good and sent them Jonsson (along with the freaking Luongo pick for beloved Wendy).

I'd say right up until that moment it was a nice usage of talent. Youth for now, then back again, but they absolutely demolished themselves against the worst GM in modern sports. Okay, second to Rob Babcock, but still.
It's also funny that Jonsson turned into Mathieu Schneider, who was turned into Alexander Karpovtsev who was turned into Bryan McCabe and then ultimately Mike Van Ryn, which is a pretty long string of defensemen of wildly varying quality... I guess the ball finally dropped with that godawful Mike Van Ryn acquisition.

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08-21-2012, 11:24 AM
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It was a nice recovery to get Andreychuk for Fuhr, because that deal was looking pretty damn bad when Potvin almost immediately stole the starting job from Fuhr while Vinny was putting up 90pt season after 90pt season.

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08-21-2012, 11:50 AM
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Whatever happened to Kenny J? I don't mean "where is he" rather he looked like he had an awful lot of promise.

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08-21-2012, 12:17 PM
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Whatever happened to Kenny J? I don't mean "where is he" rather he looked like he had an awful lot of promise.
Concussions derailed his career with the Islanders.

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08-21-2012, 12:18 PM
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Glenn Anderson and Grant Fuhr (to a lesser extent - as he was replaced by the up and coming Felix Potvin) helped change the culture - and helped us reach the playoffs... I will never forget this moment as it was huge for us...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruGGg...eature=related

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08-21-2012, 12:40 PM
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Glenn Anderson and Grant Fuhr (to a lesser extent - as he was replaced by the up and coming Felix Potvin) helped change the culture - and helped us reach the playoffs... I will never forget this moment as it was huge for us...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruGGg...eature=related
Correct you are sir. The acquisition of Fuhr was critical. The Leaf defense and goal tending was very unstable(crappy) before Fuhr came in. It would have been a worthwhile trade just for Fuhr. Anderson was a bonus.

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08-21-2012, 01:21 PM
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Dont forget glenn had the huge ot goal against the kings in '93

enjoy!!!



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08-21-2012, 01:25 PM
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Federko
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Dont forget glenn had the huge ot goal against the kings in '93

enjoy!!!

Yes! That's what my youtube link was in a few posts earlier but for whatever reason it doesn't work.... It pains me to think we went up 3 games to 2 after this big OT win. Love Glenn Anderson.

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08-21-2012, 01:28 PM
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ya dont realy want to think what could have been,but for good sakes we should have won


p.s got video to work!!


Last edited by IBLEAF: 08-21-2012 at 01:35 PM.
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08-21-2012, 03:20 PM
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eyeball11
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Concussions derailed his career with the Islanders.
Yeah, I remember that, just seemed like a guy who could really take a next step but never quite did.

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08-21-2012, 03:32 PM
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Great goal by Anderson.

I don't think the team comes to life without the addition of Andreychuk. The same way in which Gilmour gave way to Sundin, I don't think Damphousse would have done what he did elsewhere, with Gilmour in the mix. If anything, Fuhr (For the time he was there) and Anderson surely instilled a champion's confidence, and the right mix of veteran skill and leadership to the elements that were younger in less crucial roles, save Potvin.

I miss that team. I miss the Gardens and the energy it created. I miss the Leafs wearing white at Home and I miss Pat Burns.

What a time.

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08-21-2012, 03:41 PM
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satyr9
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It's also funny that Jonsson turned into Mathieu Schneider, who was turned into Alexander Karpovtsev who was turned into Bryan McCabe and then ultimately Mike Van Ryn, which is a pretty long string of defensemen of wildly varying quality... I guess the ball finally dropped with that godawful Mike Van Ryn acquisition.
Well the Van Ryn was almost different as it was just salary dump with Ryn as a bit of ballast coming back (McCabe's value was ruined before the trade, not the we took back bad value for him).

That Schneider eventually became McCabe was something I'd forgotten. Long-term asset flow in sports can be pretty interesting. But McCabe is an interesting example of how you can get the same variation without the player movement. Just have his contract change for the variation to occur (although that's not to suggest McCabe when we got him was the same player when he left, but the value differences aremore influenced by his salary relative to his performance than just a straight perfomance re-evaluation).

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08-21-2012, 03:42 PM
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It's also funny that Jonsson turned into Mathieu Schneider, who was turned into Alexander Karpovtsev who was turned into Bryan McCabe and then ultimately Mike Van Ryn, which is a pretty long string of defensemen of wildly varying quality... I guess the ball finally dropped with that godawful Mike Van Ryn acquisition.
Mike Van Ryn..........he's still injured. Guy just never stayed healthy. He was good when he played. Which was almost never.

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08-21-2012, 04:54 PM
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But man that team at least had a near MVP of the league in Doug Gilmour (could he be our Kessel)...a Wendel Clark (NOBODY even comes close to this on our roster, maybe Biggs if he puts it all together style wise)...an allstar net minder up and coming in Felix Potvin (could be one of our guys now, Potvin ripped up the AHL, like Scrivens?). We had some strong pieces in place.

But man, Cliff Fletcher was a bad motherfudger when it came to those big ass trades.

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08-21-2012, 07:08 PM
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Mike Van Ryn..........he's still injured. Guy just never stayed healthy. He was good when he played. Which was almost never.
Ya, I liked Van Ryn. He played hard and I remember our record being really good with him the lineup. He was very prone to injury though, that and the way he played unfortunately forced him into early retirement.

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08-21-2012, 07:12 PM
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Damphousse is the only part that matters.
I agree. The arguement of whether that team would have been better with Damphousse instead of Andreychuk is a very interesting one. If you dont make the deal the team would have risked the possibility of rushing Potvin, which could have back fired. Also you wouldnt have had Anderson who was a playoff player. Still having a one-two punch of Gilmour-Damphousse would have been intriging....

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I miss that team. I miss the Gardens and the energy it created. I miss the Leafs wearing white at Home and I miss Pat Burns.

What a time.
Amen to this.

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08-21-2012, 11:17 PM
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That was a good deal because you build a strong team from the net out and down the middle. An even bigger deal was obviously Gilmour. So, in the long run, they ended up replacing Damphousse with an even better player...albeit from another trade.

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08-22-2012, 07:41 AM
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One of the biggest Leafs trades in the early 90s occurred when Cliff Fletcher traded a young Vincent Damphousse, Luke Richardson, Peter Ing and Scott Thornton to Edmonton in exchange for Glenn Anderson, Grant Fuhr and Craig Berube in 1991.

At the time, the Leafs basically traded a young star in Damphousse and two recent first rounders from 1987 and 1989 to get an aging scorer in Anderson and a number one goalie in Fuhr to stabilize the goaltending position.

The trade paid short term dividends for Toronto, as Anderson participated in the 1993 run to the semi finals, and the following year, they made it back to the third round with Mike Gartner, whom the Leafs received in exchange for Anderson from New York.

Grant Fuhr put in a couple of years with Toronto, before being supplanted by Felix Potvin. Fuhr's return in 1993 included Dave Andreychuk, Daren Puppa, and a 1st round pick, which turned out to be Kenny Jonsson.

By the end of the 1996 season however, none of Gartner, Andreychuk or Jonsson would still be in Toronto, as they were all spun off in salary dumps or otherwise traded away.

All things considered, would the Leafs have done better had they kept their homegrown players? Damphousse was the only real gem of the bunch. Would his presence in place of Anderson/Gartner and Andreychuk been more useful to Toronto throughout the 90s? And also, the blueline would have had a big bruising presence in Luke Richardson, while Scott Thornton would have blossomed into a good checking winger in the late 90s. How might have things worked out differently had this trade not happened for Toronto?
This trade on it's own was horrid.

We got 221 games out of Ander and 94 from fuhr.

Luke went on to play another 1,100 games in the NHL and Damp almost another 1,000 after the trade, and racked up about another 900 points.

As a stand alone trade, this for me is one of the worst in leaf history.

I can't imaging what Damp would of racked up beside Gilm , or better yet, if we have a down the middle of Gilm ,Damp ,Zez.

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08-22-2012, 08:59 AM
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Fletch era Year One - Acquired Fuhr
Quinn era Year One - Signed Joseph
Burke era Year One - Acquired Kessel

First two eras started from the net out. Almost four years into the Burke era and we're still waiting for goaltending.

The Fuhr deal was outstanding for the leafs and a true statement deal.

Fuhr led to the Andreychuk deal
Anderson led to the Gartner deal


Last edited by JackJ: 08-22-2012 at 09:18 AM.
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08-22-2012, 10:00 AM
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The Fuhr deal was HUGE for the Leafs in a good way. It's not about stats, or who played how many games - but rather it's the respectability it gave us at the time. He was the best clutch goalie to ever play (IMO - hence the avatar) - and he gave us a chance to win every night.

I remember that era well, and it was bad. Getting Fuhr changed it overnight. It was the first time in a LONG time we been the team to get the big name player - which led to us also getting guys like Gilmour and Sundin. It also gave Potvin the time he needed in St. Johns - otherwise he would have likely been rushed into action before he was ready which would have ruined him. He was a 'confidence' goalie - and having Fuhr allowed us to put a decent team around him before bringing him up.

Without that deal, I'd say we wouldn't have had the success we did in the early 90's - that taste of it which was our first since the late 70's. It was a big day for our organization, and I don't see how anyone can think it was anything but great.

I will always remember sitting in the Gardens with my buddy watching as Fuhr shut the door on St. Louis, turning aside 50+ shots and allowing us to climb back from behind to win 3-2 in overtime.

Damn we need a goalie now

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