We have a slew of solid 2nd/3rd line wingers like Bussieres. He really doesn't do anything for me. We don't have a ton of good defense prospects and I just...I don't know. It just a feeling I have that we could have a more rounded prospect group if we had picked up another solid defenseman in the 2nd round.
We have a slew of solid 2nd/3rd line wingers like Bussieres. He really doesn't do anything for me. We don't have a ton of good defense prospects and I just...I don't know. It just a feeling I have that we could have a more rounded prospect group if we had picked up another solid defenseman in the 2nd round.
They tried to trade back up into the late 1st but couldn't. So maybe they wanted a guy like Matt Finn or Jake McCabe who were still there.
We have a slew of solid 2nd/3rd line wingers like Bussieres. He really doesn't do anything for me. We don't have a ton of good defense prospects and I just...I don't know. It just a feeling I have that we could have a more rounded prospect group if we had picked up another solid defenseman in the 2nd round.
Well, that's what 2nd rounder forwards are. Skilled, top-6 or bust guys or 2nd/3rd liners with enough skill and physical upside to possibly put it all together and be top-6 power forward.
I get that your general argument is that we need a Dman over a forward, but we've drafted Brodin, Dumba, Seeler, Draeger, and Gunnarsson in the last 2 years. That's a fantastic group of Dmen to draft. Two bluechippers, and then 3 guys will great upsides.
In comparison, we've drafted Phillips, Lucia, Gilmour, Graovac, Bertschy, and Nanne for forwards in the last 2 season. That's very average. Only two legit top-6ers, and both of those guys have question marks.
I would argue that Bussieres was a very needed pick. If he turns into Andrew Ladd 2.0, that will be a great pick.
Well, that's what 2nd rounder forwards are. Skilled, top-6 or bust guys or 2nd/3rd liners with enough skill and physical upside to possibly put it all together and be top-6 power forward.
Or solid top 4 defensemen.
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I get that your general argument is that we need a Dman over a forward, but we've drafted Brodin, Dumba, Seeler, Draeger, and Gunnarsson in the last 2 years. That's a fantastic group of Dmen to draft. Two bluechippers, and then 3 guys will great upsides.
Draeger, Seeler and to an extent Gunnarsson and Dumba are relatively unknown and both Seeler and Draeger are long, long term projects (think 4-5 years). Getting a CHL defenseman could have really helped the organization as that is thin on intermediate defensemen depth.
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In comparison, we've drafted Phillips, Lucia, Gilmour, Graovac, Bertschy, and Nanne for forwards in the last 2 season. That's very average. Only two legit top-6ers, and both of those guys have question marks.
We also got Coyle, Zucker, Granlund, Haula, and Larsson.
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I would argue that Bussieres was a very needed pick. If he turns into Andrew Ladd 2.0, that will be a great pick.
Draeger, Seeler and to an extent Gunnarsson and Dumba are relatively unknown and both Seeler and Draeger are long, long term projects (think 4-5 years). Getting a CHL defenseman could have really helped the organization as that is thin on intermediate defensemen depth.
We also got Coyle, Zucker, Granlund, Haula, and Larsson.
But where would he be slotted?
The entire 2012 draft is long-term projects (4-5 years), including Dumba and Bussieres. That was the point.
In the next 4-5 years, we have Granlund, Coyle, Zucker, Phillips, Haula, Lucia, and Larsson for young forwards, and Spurgeon, Brodin, Scandella, Falk, Kampfer, Cuma, Prosser, Seeler, Mednvec for defensemen.
Bussieres fit in perfectly with what we needed to do at the draft.
The entire 2012 draft is long-term projects (4-5 years), including Dumba and Bussieres. That was the point.
Bussieres is going to be in the AHL probably next year.
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In the next 4-5 years, we have Granlund, Coyle, Zucker, Phillips, Haula, Lucia, and Larsson for young forwards, and Spurgeon, Brodin, Scandella, Falk, Kampfer, Cuma, Prosser, Seeler, Mednvec for defensemen.
Offense looks way better than defense. Brodin is probably the only really good one out of that group. Scandella and Spurgeron are solid and established. Falk is depth. Kampfer, who knows. Cuma is a walking hospital. Prosser, Seeler, Medvec aren't really anything special and who knows if they will even stick. We could have used another solid top 4 because outside of Brodin, none of the defensemen listed that aren't established in the NHL, don't look like much, if anything.
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Bussieres fit in perfectly with what we needed to do at the draft.
I'd keep Bussy in juniors as long as they'll let him stay. It will be nearly impossible for him to crack the top six in the AHL let alone top nine in the NHL in the next few years.
I'd keep Bussy in juniors as long as they'll let him stay. It will be nearly impossible for him to crack the top six in the AHL let alone top nine in the NHL in the next few years.
Problem is, you can't. He'll have to go somewhere and soon (20 next year). He'll need to be signed by 2014.
To me; we got Zucker, Larsson, Coyle, Bulmer as solid 2nd/3rd line forwards that are 1-2 years away. Haula and Lucia could be another 2nd/3rd line forward that are 3-5 years away. Granlund could end up being a franchise forward. Dark horses including; Graovac, Gilmore, and Bertschy. That's a pretty damn solid group of forwards. Not to mention Clutter, Mitchell, Brodziak, Setoguchi in the NHL and bottom 6 gets rotated.
Defense department we got Brodin and Dumba as top 3 defensemen with Dumba being a long project. Outside of him, Kampfer and Gunnarson might be good stop gaps in the 1-3 year project. But I don't see anything else outside of that group that screams top 5 defenseman in 2-4 years. Seeler, Draeger are years away (I wouldn't be surprised 5-6 years). Lorenz, Medvec, Prosser, Genoway are borderline NHLers at best. So if a guy like Scandella or Spurgeron stall in their development...ick.
Bussieres is going to be in the AHL probably next year.
Offense looks way better than defense. Brodin is probably the only really good one out of that group. Scandella and Spurgeron are solid and established. Falk is depth. Kampfer, who knows. Cuma is a walking hospital. Prosser, Seeler, Medvec aren't really anything special and who knows if they will even stick. We could have used another solid top 4 because outside of Brodin, none of the defensemen listed that aren't established in the NHL, don't look like much, if anything.
What? Draft more tweeners?
You are acting like you need as many Dmen as forwards. You don't. You 50% more forward prospects than Dman prospects (9 forwards spots in the top-3 lines, 6 blueliner spots, 4th line doesn't count).
Gilbert and Suter will be here for a while. That means there is only 2 top-4 Dmen spots for Brodin, Scandella, Spurgeon, Stoner, and any UFA we sign in the next 3-4 years. 5 guys for 2 spots. We are fine. Especially if somebody comes out of nowhere to challenge.
It's clear that you just think Bussi is a bad pick, ala Colton Gillies, reaching for a bottom-6er when better players were on the board.
When Bussi could easily be viewed as another Bulmer pick. A guy that didn't produce huge numbers in junior, but clearly has skill, size and some nastiest, and you are hoping he keeps improving.
No. They traded that pick to San Jose in the Brent Burns trade, who then traded it to someone else.
Who then traded it to someone else. Think Nashville ended up with it via Tampa Bay (with the Lindback trade) who got it from San Jose via the Dominic Moore trade.
I don't think Bussi is amazing or anything, but he brings a game that we don't have in our prospect pool.
Bussi is a good-sized, physical player who can win puck battles, hit, and go into corners. But he's got very good hands and good vision, a pretty good speed. He's a guy who can be a "gopher" winger on a top-6 - a guy who gets in on the forecheck, gets the puck, and then makes the smart pass to the more skilled players, and then can get into scoring position. More skilled players don't go into corners like that and bottom-6 guys don't have the vision to distribute the puck once they get it. Guys like Granlund, Bouchard, Phillips, Setoguchi, etc. are a lot less effective without a linemate like Bussi.
Clutterbuck can't pass and can only run around and hit things, and then just shoots as soon as he gets the puck.
Coyle is a similiar player, but he doesn't have Bussi's vision. More of a goal scorer.
Bulmer is more of a checker with a good shot and big body.
Zucker is much smaller and is more of a shooter than passer.
I don't think Bussi is amazing or anything, but he brings a game that we don't have in our prospect pool.
Bussi is a good-sized, physical player who can win puck battles, hit, and go into corners. But he's got very good hands and good vision, a pretty good speed. He's a guy who can be a "gopher" winger on a top-6 - a guy who gets in on the forecheck, gets the puck, and then makes the smart pass to the more skilled players, and then can get into scoring position. More skilled players don't go into corners like that and bottom-6 guys don't have the vision to distribute the puck once they get it. Guys like Granlund, Bouchard, Phillips, Setoguchi, etc. are a lot less effective without a linemate like Bussi.
Clutterbuck can't pass and can only run around and hit things, and then just shoots as soon as he gets the puck.
Coyle is a similiar player, but he doesn't have Bussi's vision. More of a goal scorer.
Bulmer is more of a checker with a good shot and big body.
Zucker is much smaller and is more of a shooter than passer.
Wow! What are these authoritative comparisons based on?
You are acting like you need as many Dmen as forwards. You don't. You 50% more forward prospects than Dman prospects (9 forwards spots in the top-3 lines, 6 blueliner spots, 4th line doesn't count).
And you're acting like defensemen are as easy to develop as forward prospects. One of the reasons why Minnesota ran into the issue this year with their defense is because Cuma didn't develop as quickly as they had hoped, Scandella had his ups and downs, and we had injuries.
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Gilbert and Suter will be here for a while. That means there is only 2 top-4 Dmen spots for Brodin, Scandella, Spurgeon, Stoner, and any UFA we sign in the next 3-4 years. 5 guys for 2 spots. We are fine. Especially if somebody comes out of nowhere to challenge.
Stoner and Spurgeron I wouldn't pencil in as top 4 defensemen. Nor Kampfer. Brodin will still need to develop. And we still don't have a lot in the cupboard in terms of guys we can call up.
Cuma has been for all intents and purposes a bust. Medvec, Prosser and Lorenz aren't top 4 material.
We could use another short-term defenseman that we can develop in the AHL for a while along with Dumba simply because we have no quality outside of Dumba and Brodin.
Bussi is a project like any of our players. I would have liked to use that project on a defenseman, so at least have some balance and depth there. We've been drafting a ton of forwards (And for good reason) but defense can be a bit scary outside of Suter and Gilbert.
Kind of close. HF kind of had some odd late picks in there, but overall similar. First Round Bust is running out of time to unveil their top 20 picks before the next season...uh... I mean 2013 draft comes.
Last edited by Victorious Secret: 09-29-2012 at 07:51 PM.
