HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Toronto Maple Leafs
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Next Game: vs Boston | Sun Sep 16 @ 1:00pm ET/10:00am PT | B. Morrow vs J. Lester

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
08-21-2012, 09:07 PM
  #1
The Nemesis
Global Moderator
Semper Tyrannus
 
The Nemesis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Langley, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 47,252
vCash: 500
Next Game: vs Boston | Sun Sep 16 @ 1:00pm ET/10:00am PT | B. Morrow vs J. Lester

carry on.

__________________

"Do you know what "nemesis" means? A righteous infliction of retribution manifested by an appropriate agent."

Sorry, I am not taking signature requests at this time.
The Nemesis is offline  
Old
08-21-2012, 09:22 PM
  #2
chewey
dmitri
 
chewey's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Near You!
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,837
vCash: 136
SEASON'S OVER ! ! !

chewey is offline  
Old
08-21-2012, 09:22 PM
  #3
chewey
dmitri
 
chewey's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Near You!
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,837
vCash: 136
So what are people's suggestion on what to do with Big Rick?

chewey is offline  
Old
08-21-2012, 09:25 PM
  #4
Nazem Gretzky
Eller 4 Selke
 
Nazem Gretzky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Francais-land
Country: France
Posts: 10,074
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Nazem Gretzky
Send him to the Lansing Lugnuts, promote one of the saviours.

Nazem Gretzky is online now  
Old
08-21-2012, 09:27 PM
  #5
dredeye
BJ Elitist/Hipster
 
dredeye's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,647
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmitri View Post
SEASON'S OVER ! ! !
Your just realizing that now?

dredeye is offline  
Old
08-21-2012, 09:28 PM
  #6
dredeye
BJ Elitist/Hipster
 
dredeye's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,647
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmitri View Post
So what are people's suggestion on what to do with Big Rick?
No suggestion. All we can do is hope he can find a groove as the season closes out and pray that we get the old Ricky back for next season

dredeye is offline  
Old
08-21-2012, 09:30 PM
  #7
Nazem Gretzky
Eller 4 Selke
 
Nazem Gretzky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Francais-land
Country: France
Posts: 10,074
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Nazem Gretzky
I have no confidence that Romero will pitch like an ace next year. He may pitch better, but that won't be hard to do. At this point if he pitches like Aaron Laffey it will be an improvement. It's a pretty damn sad state of affairs. Looks like AA better acquire 3 pitchers.

In AA we trust!

Nazem Gretzky is online now  
Old
08-21-2012, 09:48 PM
  #8
canucksfan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: British Columbia
Posts: 24,382
vCash: 990
The only chance to win a game this series is tomorrows game

canucksfan is online now  
Old
08-21-2012, 09:50 PM
  #9
alcanalz
whys and wherefores
 
alcanalz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,691
vCash: 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Amazing Ralph View Post
In AA we trust!
What would you do superstar?

alcanalz is offline  
Old
08-21-2012, 09:52 PM
  #10
RayzorIsDull
Registered User
 
RayzorIsDull's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 6,649
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Amazing Ralph View Post
I have no confidence that Romero will pitch like an ace next year. He may pitch better, but that won't be hard to do. At this point if he pitches like Aaron Laffey it will be an improvement. It's a pretty damn sad state of affairs. Looks like AA better acquire 3 pitchers.

In AA we trust!
Jays pitchers 2nd most walks in the AL, 10th most K's that's not going to cut it. Tonight 9 walks by the Jays 0 k's. Tigers 10 k's and 2 walks. Time for Walton and Farrell to be asked what the heck they have done with the pitching this year.

RayzorIsDull is offline  
Old
08-21-2012, 09:58 PM
  #11
Suntouchable13
Registered User
 
Suntouchable13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Thornhill, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 16,751
vCash: 500
Just a minor nitpick, tomorrow is Wed Aug 22. And the previous thread title said "Tue Aug 19". Nemesis, you're off your game

Suntouchable13 is online now  
Old
08-21-2012, 10:09 PM
  #12
tp71
Enjoy every sandwich
 
tp71's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: London
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,471
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Amazing Ralph View Post
I have no confidence that Romero will pitch like an ace next year. He may pitch better, but that won't be hard to do. At this point if he pitches like Aaron Laffey it will be an improvement. It's a pretty damn sad state of affairs. Looks like AA better acquire 3 pitchers.

In AA we trust!
Was he ever a true "ace" though?

tp71 is online now  
Old
08-22-2012, 06:13 AM
  #13
Nazem Gretzky
Eller 4 Selke
 
Nazem Gretzky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Francais-land
Country: France
Posts: 10,074
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Nazem Gretzky
Quote:
Originally Posted by alcanalz View Post
What would you do superstar?
lol.

I guess this season I would go all out trying to sign FA pitchers, and trade some of our "prized" prospects for some arms.

Besides that: It doesn't matter what I'd do or wouldn't do. I am a fan and thus have every right to personally approve or disapprove any move the club makes, as do you. I have the right to be happy, or upset, as do you. The funny thing is, your opinion doesn't even mean a tad bit more than mine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tp71 View Post
Was he ever a true "ace" though?
Many were claiming that he was a lower-tier ace, which would look pretty amazing compared the bag of **** he is pitching like now.

Nazem Gretzky is online now  
Old
08-22-2012, 12:04 PM
  #14
Everlong
Franchise Pillar
 
Everlong's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 26,319
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Amazing Ralph View Post
lol.

I guess this season I would go all out trying to sign FA pitchers, and trade some of our "prized" prospects for some arms.

Besides that: It doesn't matter what I'd do or wouldn't do. I am a fan and thus have every right to personally approve or disapprove any move the club makes, as do you. I have the right to be happy, or upset, as do you. The funny thing is, your opinion doesn't even mean a tad bit more than mine.
To be fair, the context was what would you do with Romero this season. We all know AA is targeting the offseason to add to the rotation.

Why are you so quick to write off and laugh at our top prospects by the way? Neither you nor I have any idea what they'll pan out to be, so there's no reason to disregard them as quickly as you have. Their statistics so far are encouraging.


Last edited by Everlong: 08-22-2012 at 12:35 PM.
Everlong is online now  
Old
08-22-2012, 12:27 PM
  #15
Woodman19
#TeamBernier
 
Woodman19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 12,451
vCash: 500
I know sometimes prospect junkies can go to far with our love of them. But conversely people need to realize every major league player was at some point a prospect so you can't discount them as worthless when at some point some wil become stars.

Woodman19 is offline  
Old
08-22-2012, 12:59 PM
  #16
RayzorIsDull
Registered User
 
RayzorIsDull's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 6,649
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Everlong View Post
To be fair, the context was what would you do with Romero this season. We all know AA is targeting the offseason to add to the rotation.

Why are you so quick to write off and laugh at our top prospects by the way? Neither you nor I have any idea what they'll pan out to be, so there's no reason to disregard them as quickly as you have. Their statistics so far are encouraging.
I think it has to do with the tone of some posts making it sound like these top prospects are going to be the savior. To put it in perspective many believe that Gose is the Jays top prospect or one of them and I think we can say he's been overmatched and leave it at that. Sierra and Hech have been fine but it remains to be seen if Sierra is going to be on the 25 man roster next year. These were your top prospects at the highest level. I think some of the savior talk is Jays fans want something to grasp on to so they buy a lot of the hype and talk. Prospects take a long time to develop and by long time I mean look how long it took Alex Rios to produce. Lawrie has struggled this year people are hopeful he's better next year but it may take 5-6 years for him to become a very good MLB player. Rasmus continues trying to find a high performance level. What are we to do while we wait for these top prospects to arrive in Toronto hold out hope that AA can assemble a capable pitching staff and find a team that does not strictly rely on the HR ball? The buck stops at Farrell and AA and it's up to AA to give Farrell enough talent to where this season won't spiral out of control and we are almost to that point of the season hitting a death spiral.

RayzorIsDull is offline  
Old
08-22-2012, 01:20 PM
  #17
Ohio Jones
Moderator
The other Dexter
 
Ohio Jones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Great White North
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,605
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayzorIsDull View Post
I think it has to do with the tone of some posts making it sound like these top prospects are going to be the savior...

The buck stops at Farrell and AA and it's up to AA to give Farrell enough talent to where this season won't spiral out of control and we are almost to that point of the season hitting a death spiral.
Regarding the first part of your post, that's fair to a point. More likely is that some of the prospects will turn out to be very good, some not, and that either way Anthopolous will be cashing in some of them to buy major league help (so the more promising they look right now the better).

As to the second part of your post, I think everyone can agree that this season is already well past death spiral point, and that the only outcome of any relevance to Jays fans (and management) now is whether we can get out of the season without seriously damaging the confidence of the players at or near the MLB level - and if we're really lucky, giving them valuable experience to give their development a boost heading into next season.

Even those supporting Anthopolous' approach have agreed that this will be a crucial offseason for the young GM.

Ohio Jones is offline  
Old
08-22-2012, 01:24 PM
  #18
Everlong
Franchise Pillar
 
Everlong's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 26,319
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayzorIsDull View Post
I think it has to do with the tone of some posts making it sound like these top prospects are going to be the savior. To put it in perspective many believe that Gose is the Jays top prospect or one of them and I think we can say he's been overmatched and leave it at that. Sierra and Hech have been fine but it remains to be seen if Sierra is going to be on the 25 man roster next year. These were your top prospects at the highest level. I think some of the savior talk is Jays fans want something to grasp on to so they buy a lot of the hype and talk. Prospects take a long time to develop and by long time I mean look how long it took Alex Rios to produce. Lawrie has struggled this year people are hopeful he's better next year but it may take 5-6 years for him to become a very good MLB player. Rasmus continues trying to find a high performance level. What are we to do while we wait for these top prospects to arrive in Toronto hold out hope that AA can assemble a capable pitching staff and find a team that does not strictly rely on the HR ball? The buck stops at Farrell and AA and it's up to AA to give Farrell enough talent to where this season won't spiral out of control and we are almost to that point of the season hitting a death spiral.

No one player can be a savior. Each one needs to find their niche in the bigs to become successful and that takes time and experience. The Harpers and Trouts of the world are few and far between.

Rasmus and Lawrie don't need 2-3-4 years to become legitimate players. They're already performing fairly well at such a young age. Not end products sure, but far from being chump meat either.

We don't need to wait on any prospects. I don't know where the idea came from that because guys like Gose, Synder, Sachez, D'Arnaud are our top prospects, we can't have success until they're ready to make the leap. Granted some will be plucked for improvements in other areas, the majority of them though will slowly filter into an already successful team. I agree with you on that last point though. It's up to AA to put a championship caliber team out on the field.

Everlong is online now  
Old
08-22-2012, 01:32 PM
  #19
weems
Registered User
 
weems's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,232
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio Jones View Post
Regarding the first part of your post, that's fair to a point. More likely is that some of the prospects will turn out to be very good, some not, and that either way Anthopolous will be cashing in some of them to buy major league help (so the more promising they look right now the better).

As to the second part of your post, I think everyone can agree that this season is already well past death spiral point, and that the only outcome of any relevance to Jays fans (and management) now is whether we can get out of the season without seriously damaging the confidence of the players at or near the MLB level - and if we're really lucky, giving them valuable experience to give their development a boost heading into next season.

Even those supporting Anthopolous' approach have agreed that this will be a crucial offseason for the young GM.
I think Jim Callis put it nicely a few weeks ago.
He used a 3 top prospect for proven stud player deal as a template. He said that usually one of the prospects turns out to be good. One usually turns out to be a borderline starter and the other busts. Sure you could end up pulling a Texas heist but more often then not it doesnt happen. He himself ( a member of baseball america) even said that generally prospects are more hyped nowadays then they prolly should be and I'd say the age of the internet and being able to dig up info at any point on a player is a big part of why.

You never know with a prospect and certainly ones that are in rookie ball or single A. Just this time last season Marisnick was the MVP of his single A league, now he had a meh stop at Dunedin and has struggled badly at AA. Thats not to say he will be a bust or that it eliminates his chance to become a good major leaguer but the attricion rate for prospects becoming stars is really really low. You really dont know what you have in many of them until they start producing at AA or above.

I hope if theres a similar situation to the Gio/Latos trades this offseason we make it happen.

weems is offline  
Old
08-22-2012, 01:32 PM
  #20
alcanalz
whys and wherefores
 
alcanalz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,691
vCash: 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Amazing Ralph View Post
lol.

I guess this season I would go all out trying to sign FA pitchers, and trade some of our "prized" prospects for some arms.

Besides that: It doesn't matter what I'd do or wouldn't do. I am a fan and thus have every right to personally approve or disapprove any move the club makes, as do you. I have the right to be happy, or upset, as do you. The funny thing is, your opinion doesn't even mean a tad bit more than mine.
Someone's angry.

It's easy to criticize AA for a typhoon of injuries and take pot shots from your couch on everything jays ("prized"?). Just curious as to how your superior knowledge would have prevented some injuries is all.

alcanalz is offline  
Old
08-22-2012, 02:15 PM
  #21
tp71
Enjoy every sandwich
 
tp71's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: London
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,471
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Amazing Ralph View Post

Many were claiming that he was a lower-tier ace, which would look pretty amazing compared the bag of **** he is pitching like now.
I probably wouldn't have gone that far. Then again, I always take the line of thinking that in the NHL there aren't 30 #1 centers to go around, they're limited. That's why their so coveted. Same goes for the MLB. There aren't 30 aces in the MLB. There are maybe 10-15 bona fide ace pitchers out there imo. And Ricky was never one of them. It was probably even a stretch to call him a #1. But if you want to go that far, all he was, was a good #1. Never an "ace".

tp71 is online now  
Old
08-22-2012, 03:30 PM
  #22
Ohio Jones
Moderator
The other Dexter
 
Ohio Jones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Great White North
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,605
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Amazing Ralph View Post
lol.

I guess this season I would go all out trying to sign FA pitchers, and trade some of our "prized" prospects for some arms.

Besides that: It doesn't matter what I'd do or wouldn't do. I am a fan and thus have every right to personally approve or disapprove any move the club makes, as do you. I have the right to be happy, or upset, as do you. The funny thing is, your opinion doesn't even mean a tad bit more than mine.

Many were claiming that he was a lower-tier ace, which would look pretty amazing compared the bag of **** he is pitching like now.
I guess the real question is, why are you a fan at all? You consistently take a "glass is half empty" view of every situation involving the Jays. Reading over your many posts, if a prospect or player performs well, it's a mirage. If a player or prospect stumbles, it's a sure sign that they're a bust and just another example of Jays incompetence. You do recognize, don't you, that this is just as unrealistic an attitude to take as saying that every player or prospect will be an all-star? Things are seldom as great as polyannas would suggest, but they are never - never! - as consistently bleak as the picture you always paint.

So the question again is: why are you a Jays fan? If they make you so angry or depressed, why do you follow them? More importantly, why do you inflict your consistently negative thoughts about them on others? If you're unable or unwilling to take a reasoned, objective, dare I say BALANCED stance on the Jays, you'll quickly find yourself relegated to "ignore" status. (Won't be the first I've ignored on this board...).

Ohio Jones is offline  
Old
08-22-2012, 04:29 PM
  #23
dredeye
BJ Elitist/Hipster
 
dredeye's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,647
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio Jones View Post
I guess the real question is, why are you a fan at all? You consistently take a "glass is half empty" view of every situation involving the Jays. Reading over your many posts, if a prospect or player performs well, it's a mirage. If a player or prospect stumbles, it's a sure sign that they're a bust and just another example of Jays incompetence. You do recognize, don't you, that this is just as unrealistic an attitude to take as saying that every player or prospect will be an all-star? Things are seldom as great as polyannas would suggest, but they are never - never! - as consistently bleak as the picture you always paint.

So the question again is: why are you a Jays fan? If they make you so angry or depressed, why do you follow them? More importantly, why do you inflict your consistently negative thoughts about them on others? If you're unable or unwilling to take a reasoned, objective, dare I say BALANCED stance on the Jays, you'll quickly find yourself relegated to "ignore" status. (Won't be the first I've ignored on this board...).
He's made many lists already. Zero value posts

dredeye is offline  
Old
08-22-2012, 05:29 PM
  #24
Nazem Gretzky
Eller 4 Selke
 
Nazem Gretzky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Francais-land
Country: France
Posts: 10,074
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Nazem Gretzky
Quote:
Originally Posted by Everlong View Post
To be fair, the context was what would you do with Romero this season. We all know AA is targeting the offseason to add to the rotation.

Why are you so quick to write off and laugh at our top prospects by the way? Neither you nor I have any idea what they'll pan out to be, so there's no reason to disregard them as quickly as you have. Their statistics so far are encouraging.
The first thing I would do with Romero is skip one of his starts. Secondly, I'd get the team psychiatrist to work with him, he obviously has some pretty big mental issues.

I am so quick to write off Jays prospects because the statistics are not encouraging. Sure, some might be performing well, and that's great. But when you look at the overall picture, and you see how many prospects flat out bust, it is ridiculous to hope that our prospects will somehow save the day.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodman19 View Post
I know sometimes prospect junkies can go to far with our love of them. But conversely people need to realize every major league player was at some point a prospect so you can't discount them as worthless when at some point some wil become stars.
That's fair.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alcanalz View Post
Someone's angry.

It's easy to criticize AA for a typhoon of injuries and take pot shots from your couch on everything jays ("prized"?). Just curious as to how your superior knowledge would have prevented some injuries is all.
It's funny, cause I'm not even mad. You're probably mad though, because you don't want to read that the team you cheer for is absolute garbage, when it is quite obvious. Luckily there are lots of ball games on TV and I have the option of watching some good teams now and again.

And it's not even AA, per se. I think AA has done an OK job, but good grief, if you read forums and message boards before the season people would have you convinced that he was the second coming. This is a rookie GM. I saw so many "In AA we trust", and "AA is a genius" posts (not necessarily here but on other boards too), that it made me want to bash my head against a steel post. AA has his good moves and his bad moves, as with any GM, but he certainly is not some super genius. We were a 500 ball club before injuries, remember.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tp71 View Post
I probably wouldn't have gone that far. Then again, I always take the line of thinking that in the NHL there aren't 30 #1 centers to go around, they're limited. That's why their so coveted. Same goes for the MLB. There aren't 30 aces in the MLB. There are maybe 10-15 bona fide ace pitchers out there imo. And Ricky was never one of them. It was probably even a stretch to call him a #1. But if you want to go that far, all he was, was a good #1. Never an "ace".
Let's say he was a great #2. Still a hell of a lot better than what he is showing now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio Jones View Post
I guess the real question is, why are you a fan at all? You consistently take a "glass is half empty" view of every situation involving the Jays. Reading over your many posts, if a prospect or player performs well, it's a mirage. If a player or prospect stumbles, it's a sure sign that they're a bust and just another example of Jays incompetence. You do recognize, don't you, that this is just as unrealistic an attitude to take as saying that every player or prospect will be an all-star? Things are seldom as great as polyannas would suggest, but they are never - never! - as consistently bleak as the picture you always paint.

So the question again is: why are you a Jays fan? If they make you so angry or depressed, why do you follow them? More importantly, why do you inflict your consistently negative thoughts about them on others? If you're unable or unwilling to take a reasoned, objective, dare I say BALANCED stance on the Jays, you'll quickly find yourself relegated to "ignore" status. (Won't be the first I've ignored on this board...).
Why am I a fan? I am a fan because I love the sport of baseball and the Jays were the first team I watched on TV. Why do I have a glass-half-empty approach? The jays have never in my entire life done anything of significance. It's quite simple. Why, as a fan, would I bother to create false hope (based on no results or past precedents) for myself? What is the point of that? I am only setting myself up for disappointment. There is a reason why before the season, I believe I predicted the Jays would finish up 81-81 (lol ).

Quote:
Originally Posted by dredeye View Post
He's made many lists already. Zero value posts
Whatever man. It is not my concern if you don't like my posts.

Nazem Gretzky is online now  
Old
08-22-2012, 05:37 PM
  #25
mikebel111
Optimistic/Patient
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,748
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by weems View Post
I think Jim Callis put it nicely a few weeks ago.
He used a 3 top prospect for proven stud player deal as a template. He said that usually one of the prospects turns out to be good. One usually turns out to be a borderline starter and the other busts. Sure you could end up pulling a Texas heist but more often then not it doesnt happen. He himself ( a member of baseball america) even said that generally prospects are more hyped nowadays then they prolly should be and I'd say the age of the internet and being able to dig up info at any point on a player is a big part of why.

You never know with a prospect and certainly ones that are in rookie ball or single A. Just this time last season Marisnick was the MVP of his single A league, now he had a meh stop at Dunedin and has struggled badly at AA. Thats not to say he will be a bust or that it eliminates his chance to become a good major leaguer but the attricion rate for prospects becoming stars is really really low. You really dont know what you have in many of them until they start producing at AA or above.

I hope if theres a similar situation to the Gio/Latos trades this offseason we make it happen.


Marisnick was not meh in dunedin, he was good, sure his average was not great, but his other categories were good, but I do agree he is struggling in double A, but he is adjusting to older pitchers with better stuff, Next year he will be alright, remember his first pro season he also struggled, than he had his breakout season the next year,
He seems to struggle in first year than be awesome next year because it seems he finally adjusts to new pitchers, sure if he struggles in first couple on months next season than I'd be worried

mikebel111 is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:36 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.