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C Bo Horvat - London Knights, OHL (2013, 9th overall, Vancouver)

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Old
07-30-2013, 12:43 AM
  #326
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Originally Posted by ALI View Post
not high on Horvat I think his upside is Jared Stoll
You sound very informed.

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07-30-2013, 12:47 AM
  #327
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Brandon Sutter goes to bed and dreams about having skill like Bo Horvat, and that's an objective analysis. Ask anybody.

The depth of London is actually what probably hurt Horvat's numbers more than anything and that's being seen as a positive here. Just wait until he goes back to London and hits 100 points next year.

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07-30-2013, 01:18 AM
  #328
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Damning Horvat's upside based on statistics(especially ones cherry picked by Copper 'n Blue) is ridiculous.

The kid obviously has offensive talent.


And if you're really hung up on statistics, who other than Horvat scored 40 goals in a 60 game stretch in this draft? Mantha is probably the only one not named MacKinnon or Drouin.

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07-30-2013, 01:46 AM
  #329
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Originally Posted by Lord Flacko View Post
Saying Horvat's upside is Stoll is one of the most ridiculous things I've read today.
Stoll before his concussion problems was a beast. If he didnt get injured I think people would have placed him in the same tier as Richards. I don't think Horvat will be as Physical as Stoll tho, for me when I see him I see a poor mans Bergeron. A guy that puts up 40-60 points while being able to win a ton of draws, play in every situation, and able to shutdown the best in the league. I could see him staying with van next year, although I won't be surprised if he gets sent down to work on his offensive game.

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07-30-2013, 01:47 AM
  #330
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Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
Some of these projections are absolutely laughable. Kids with Horvat's offensive production in their draft year on a team that good don't become high-end #2C's. (http://www.coppernblue.com/2013/6/18...ft-comparables).
I've read most of those blogs and outside of Mckinnon, Drouin, and Barkov he thinks every forward is going to struggle to score. His so-called analysis is basically a combination of hockey-card stats and projected draft position - which he isn't even close on for many of the players. Not a trace of actual scouting or talent-evaluation anywhere in those posts.


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Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
Yes, I get that everyone loves his defensive game and intangibles and grit and whatever, but here's a newsflash for you: Chris Tierney played the toughs in London. And Horvat struggled to score away from Domi. Ryan O'Reilly is Horvat's high-end upside. I think he's more likely to be a Brandon Sutter caliber of player than a Mike Richards.
I don't pretend to watch London games with any regularity, but several who do have shared their insights and opinions on Horvat over on the Canucks board. Many of them contradict your assessment of line mates and match-ups above, specifically that Domi largely played with Griffith and Broadhurst in the offensive match-ups while Horvat played with Tierny and Anderson in the defensive match-ups. Also makes no sense saying Horvat struggled to score away from Domi, when he had 68 points in his final 61 RS and PO games. Unless he played with Domi for the entire 61 games (he didn't), he seemed to do just fine without Max.


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Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
And as I type, here it comes. You do realize that Jarret Stoll has been a pretty consistent 50 point player over his career, right?
LOL, by "consistent" you mean his ONE season in NINE in the NHL??? Are you confusing Jarret Stoll with Jordan Staal perhaps??

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Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
And then I see you think that his upside is Patrice Bergeron, a top-10 forward in the league, and I just don't know what to say except poor kid. Canucks fans will overhype him to the max and then when he becomes a respectable player and not Patrice Bergeron, they'll backtrack.
Well I've seen far more Bergeron-upside projections than Stoll-projections, that much is certain.

http://thehockeyguys.net/bo-horvat-s...ondon-knights/

http://lastwordonsports.com/2013/04/...er-profile-19/


Absolutely nothing wrong with identifying a 9th OA pick's upside as a top-10 forward. Pretty sure if his upside was Jarret Stoll he'd have gone somewhere in the late-1st or early-2nd round. No one said he is definitely going to be Patrice Bergeron, but in terms of things he has already demonstrated in junior - namely size, skating, puck skills, work ethic, hockey sense, and leadership - he absolutely has a chance to reach Bergeron's level someday.

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07-30-2013, 01:57 AM
  #331
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TSN was comparing horvat to ROR and bergeron, His upside offensively is pretty damn solid, and his puck skills is damn impressive.



1:00
and
2:50( <-- imo this part makes me think he could seriously make a run for our #3 C position, Shifty as hell

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Old
07-30-2013, 03:07 AM
  #332
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Originally Posted by King Of The North View Post
Mike Richards is a 60 point 2C only because he plays behind Kopitar.
no he's a 40-50 point guy because he plays behind Kopitar now

60 point guy regularly with his peak probably being 80 in 08

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07-30-2013, 05:01 AM
  #333
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He will probably be on the first line - and may play centre if they put Domi at wing. Horvat is a great player but he had an uneven year and need to work on his offense.

In Vancouver he will be a bottom 6 player who probably plays limited minutes and won't necessarily make it on any special teams.

He may have been dominant in the playoffs - but looking at his year as whole I did not think he looked NHL ready. I find it really weird that after watching him you decided "this is a guy who would be far better off playing in the NHL next year rather than having another year in junior".
Uneven in terms of offense??? His year started slowly but when he wasn't scoring he was being the best PK guy on the team, shutting down other forwards and something that wasn't mention he was put on lines that had other players struggling to get them going. I wouldn't call it uneven. He's been trending upward since he was 16 and could have played a bigger role as a 16 year old. Players like Bo are IMO to smart for the OHL at this point.

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07-30-2013, 08:19 AM
  #334
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Originally Posted by JL17 View Post
Uneven in terms of offense??? His year started slowly but when he wasn't scoring he was being the best PK guy on the team, shutting down other forwards and something that wasn't mention he was put on lines that had other players struggling to get them going. I wouldn't call it uneven. He's been trending upward since he was 16 and could have played a bigger role as a 16 year old. Players like Bo are IMO to smart for the OHL at this point.
you seem to be taking this very personally - as if saying he needs another year of junior is slamming him or something.

there's absolutely nothing you have said that indicates he is NHL-ready...he probably isn't. If he's so dominant that they feel he should be on the team then they can keep him up - more likely he won't be and could use another year in junior to work on his game, especially offense.

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07-30-2013, 08:26 AM
  #335
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Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
Yeah, I'm the one whose going around dissing players drafted by teams I dislike. Not you, who said not ten minutes ago that Monahan will be worse than Stoll.

And TSN always uses ridiculous projections. They compare guys taken in the second round to first line NHLers all the time. Bergeron is a decent stylistic comparison, but Horvat's upside isn't in the same stratosphere.

All of a sudden I don't like Horvat anymore? I have held the same line on Horvat since April: He's very much like Ryan O'Reilly and will be a solid two-way 50 point 2C. You can look in old Horvat threads if you like, I posted the same opinion in May, before there was even a chance he was a Canuck.

Why don't you guys try attacking my opinion instead of attacking me as a person, which seems to be all that you can do.
it's funny you say that, because Bergeron didn't really project to be the player he has become....when he was drafted I don't think anyone thought he'd end up the player he is. From what I recall of Bergeron's play when he was the same age of Horvat, I do not think he looked to be in another "stratosphere" as Horvat.

it's a little odd that you are so adamant in limiting the upside a top 10 draft pick who is 17 years old and has yet to play in the NHL has. I could understand if people were trying to claim he was the next Crosby - however I do not find the Bergeron comparison all that far off...obviously, he may never reach that ceiling...but as of now it's not ridiculous to think if he reaches his potential he tops out at the same level.

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07-30-2013, 10:25 AM
  #336
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Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
Some of these projections are absolutely laughable. Kids with Horvat's offensive production in their draft year on a team that good don't become high-end #2C's. (http://www.coppernblue.com/2013/6/18...ft-comparables).

Yes, I get that everyone loves his defensive game and intangibles and grit and whatever, but here's a newsflash for you: Chris Tierney played the toughs in London. And Horvat struggled to score away from Domi. Ryan O'Reilly is Horvat's high-end upside. I think he's more likely to be a Brandon Sutter caliber of player than a Mike Richards.
This is how i see it as well, ROR would be a good upside and Brandon Sutter is still a hell of a player.

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Which is probably still higher than Monahan
And Mackinnon as well right?

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07-30-2013, 10:25 AM
  #337
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Reg season
Horvat didnt play much with Domi thru the year. Domi/Griffith/Broadhurst were together 90% of the time.
Bo didnt play a ton with Tierney and Anderson either last year. The year before they were together all 2nd half.
Bo and Tierney often centered the 2nd and 3rd lines this year.
Bo was used with different guys all year as JL said.
Best shot blocking F Ive seen ( A Watson a1B)
Wins FOs
Plays against other teams best player ( usually two yrs older ) and more than holds his own.
#boknowsbiggames
He was a huge scorer pre OHL ( one of the top in Province at that level ) and is just now turning it up. He was asked to take a lower scoring 4th line role as a rook on a deep team ( OHL champs) Last year didnt play with the most talented Fs on the Knights and still turned it up huge the 2nd half.
One of the smartest players I've seen.
Has great hands, crashes the net hard, pays the price, works the boards very well, has a great knack for stripping the puck off Fs in neutral zone ect...

He will be a dominant OHLer this year, scoring a lot, playing a complete game and probably captain.

I think he just needs to stay in London only because I think he'll need to get a bit stronger to play his game with men. Everything else is NHL ready

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07-30-2013, 10:43 AM
  #338
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Originally Posted by aresknights View Post
I think he just needs to stay in London only because I think he'll need to get a bit stronger to play his game with men. Everything else is NHL ready
See this is an element of his game I think is far more developed than most prospects coming right out of the draft. The dude is big and plays big. Uses his size in board battles, protects the puck very well down low. I agree he should go back to London, but more because he needs to be the main guy there for a full season.

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07-30-2013, 10:45 AM
  #339
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Reg season
Horvat didnt play much with Domi thru the year. Domi/Griffith/Broadhurst were together 90% of the time.
Bo didnt play a ton with Tierney and Anderson either last year. The year before they were together all 2nd half.
Bo and Tierney often centered the 2nd and 3rd lines this year.
Bo was used with different guys all year as JL said.
Best shot blocking F Ive seen ( A Watson a1B)
Wins FOs
Plays against other teams best player ( usually two yrs older ) and more than holds his own.
#boknowsbiggames
He was a huge scorer pre OHL ( one of the top in Province at that level ) and is just now turning it up. He was asked to take a lower scoring 4th line role as a rook on a deep team ( OHL champs) Last year didnt play with the most talented Fs on the Knights and still turned it up huge the 2nd half.
One of the smartest players I've seen.
Has great hands, crashes the net hard, pays the price, works the boards very well, has a great knack for stripping the puck off Fs in neutral zone ect...

He will be a dominant OHLer this year, scoring a lot, playing a complete game and probably captain.

I think he just needs to stay in London only because I think he'll need to get a bit stronger to play his game with men. Everything else is NHL ready
I'm only going by my PVR, but I'm almost certain that Tierney-Horvat-Anderson was a line in the playoffs and memorial cup when matching up, but Bo still got his offensive time with Domi and Griffith.

Can you give us an accurate depth chart for how London's forwards were used, they were nationally broadcast ~10 times and Hunter seemed to have a mixer going.

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Old
07-30-2013, 10:57 AM
  #340
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Hunter did/does mix lines a lot, to the dismay of many a Knight fan lol. I don't mind it thou.
Reg season
Griffith/Broadhurst/Domi were together as the scoring line most of the time and played a lot.
Bo centered a line that had rotating wingers and more oft than not got the other teams #1 lines.
Rupert's and Bo were together a bit, esp early but injuries n suspensions to the twins made that tough on a reg basis. When they were in the lineup late Dale didnt have the twins together as much.
Tierney and Bo both played C a lot during the reg season but were used together at times in POs and late game own zone FOs. Late in a game Dale would throw Fs from each n every line out depending on match ups.
The Tierney/Anderson/Bo line were a mainstay 4th line 2 yrs ago and ur right they did see som action together but not a reg thing.
Platzer, Elie, Leroux, Pawley, Jammes ( least PT) more oft than not played 4th line with Elie first to move up.
Griff, Domi, Broashurst, Bo,Ferry, Tierney,R Rupert prolly got the most ice with the first 3 together. Anderson, Wely, M Rupert the next tier for PT and then the others. But as you saw, it was a mix match except first line most of the time.

My point about strength. Yes I agree with you he's as physically good as any drafted F from 1st rd BUT that was against 20 and unders. His game isn't all flash and he needs that edge physically to be at his best, something he may not have against 25-30 ur olds YET . If he was a flash n dash not real lying on strength I'd say he'd be a lock because of his intangibles. I'm not sure he's be as effective against men YET. But he will be soon. I just think one more year will allow him to enter on a more even level.
If hemakes it this year, great on him and I won't be as shocked as with others that have stuck, but think he's back.

I've seen the Knights the last 2 yrs live in 50 or so reg season games and 95% of his home PO games. Season tic 15 yrs. And the PVR gets a workout for away games or when I was away with jrC


Last edited by aresknights: 07-30-2013 at 11:13 AM.
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07-30-2013, 11:37 AM
  #341
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Originally Posted by aresknights View Post
Hunter did/does mix lines a lot, to the dismay of many a Knight fan lol. I don't mind it thou.
Reg season
Griffith/Broadhurst/Domi were together as the scoring line most of the time and played a lot.
Bo centered a line that had rotating wingers and more oft than not got the other teams #1 lines.
Rupert's and Bo were together a bit, esp early but injuries n suspensions to the twins made that tough on a reg basis. When they were in the lineup late Dale didnt have the twins together as much.
Tierney and Bo both played C a lot during the reg season but were used together at times in POs and late game own zone FOs. Late in a game Dale would throw Fs from each n every line out depending on match ups.
The Tierney/Anderson/Bo line were a mainstay 4th line 2 yrs ago and ur right they did see som action together but not a reg thing.
Platzer, Elie, Leroux, Pawley, Jammes ( least PT) more oft than not played 4th line with Elie first to move up.
Griff, Domi, Broashurst, Bo,Ferry, Tierney,R Rupert prolly got the most ice with the first 3 together. Anderson, Wely, M Rupert the next tier for PT and then the others. But as you saw, it was a mix match except first line most of the time.

My point about strength. Yes I agree with you he's as physically good as any drafted F from 1st rd BUT that was against 20 and unders. His game isn't all flash and he needs that edge physically to be at his best, something he may not have against 25-30 ur olds YET . If he was a flash n dash not real lying on strength I'd say he'd be a lock because of his intangibles. I'm not sure he's be as effective against men YET. But he will be soon. I just think one more year will allow him to enter on a more even level.
If hemakes it this year, great on him and I won't be as shocked as with others that have stuck, but think he's back.

I've seen the Knights the last 2 yrs live in 50 or so reg season games and 95% of his home PO games. Season tic 15 yrs. And the PVR gets a workout for away games or when I was away with jrC
Great stuff, thanks for sharing. As a Canuck fan I obviously have high hopes for Horvat, but at the same time I try to be fairly realistic in my expectations. I think his upside is higher than most uninformed posters assume it is based on a quick glance at their 2013 Hockey News rankings or something equally glib. Of course the issue with all teens is how much they progress AFTER they are drafted, and Bo is no different. Which is why most Canuck fans would like to see him return to London and have the opportunity to play in a primarily offensive role rather than the various defensive roles you've identified above. Playing in the NHL as an 18 yo is certainly an accomplishment and no doubt it is what Bo is aiming for, but ultimately for his long-term development I don't think its the right move. Hope Gilllis/Torts see it the same way too.

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07-30-2013, 01:03 PM
  #342
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Well said.

Your right about what prospects do AFTER drafted. One thing we've seen here and heard from those with the Knights is that he's a leader, he's focused on success and will put in the work, a coaches dream, will do anything to help the team, accepts challenges ect....
It's no garauntee (as with any1) but I think he'll be another good NHLer from London. He's skill and attitude should carry him

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07-30-2013, 01:31 PM
  #343
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Well said.

Your right about what prospects do AFTER drafted. One thing we've seen here and heard from those with the Knights is that he's a leader, he's focused on success and will put in the work, a coaches dream, will do anything to help the team, accepts challenges ect....
It's no garauntee (as with any1) but I think he'll be another good NHLer from London. He's skill and attitude should carry him

This is 100% the key for most, if not all, prospects. Talent is great and can't be overlooked, but a quick look around the NHL shows that the it isn't always the most talented guys that succeed. Hard work and dedication to improvement is, IMO, the best indicator of a prospects likelihood to succeed. Coupled with a solid base of above-average (but not elite) skills and NHL size, this is largely why I'm so bullish on Horvat.

Again, really enjoy hearing from Knights fans though, as it gives some much needed context and reality to these discussions which, for the most part, are based on third-party assessments or limited viewings of the player. Thanks!

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07-30-2013, 02:38 PM
  #344
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Originally Posted by aresknights View Post
Reg season
Horvat didnt play much with Domi thru the year. Domi/Griffith/Broadhurst were together 90% of the time.
Bo didnt play a ton with Tierney and Anderson either last year. The year before they were together all 2nd half.
Bo and Tierney often centered the 2nd and 3rd lines this year.
Bo was used with different guys all year as JL said.
Best shot blocking F Ive seen ( A Watson a1B)
Wins FOs
Plays against other teams best player ( usually two yrs older ) and more than holds his own.
#boknowsbiggames
He was a huge scorer pre OHL ( one of the top in Province at that level ) and is just now turning it up. He was asked to take a lower scoring 4th line role as a rook on a deep team ( OHL champs) Last year didnt play with the most talented Fs on the Knights and still turned it up huge the 2nd half.
One of the smartest players I've seen.
Has great hands, crashes the net hard, pays the price, works the boards very well, has a great knack for stripping the puck off Fs in neutral zone ect...

He will be a dominant OHLer this year, scoring a lot, playing a complete game and probably captain.

I think he just needs to stay in London only because I think he'll need to get a bit stronger to play his game with men. Everything else is NHL ready
He showed us in training camp, and it totally supports your analysis, he has a lot of untapped offensive potential that I believe some teams foolishly overlooked. If he stays with London he'll have every opportunity to develop his game to the next level

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07-30-2013, 04:03 PM
  #345
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Horvat imo could be the Richards we see now; 50 pts two way force.


Last edited by King In The North: 07-30-2013 at 04:12 PM.
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07-30-2013, 04:38 PM
  #346
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In a perfect world, he will be our 3rd line center next year (as in 2014-15) and 2nd line center in the future. Good for 25 goals 40 assists in his prime, faceoff specialists, defensively responsible and playoff performer with leadership.


Last edited by Xav: 07-30-2013 at 05:02 PM.
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07-30-2013, 04:53 PM
  #347
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I am pro Horvat to juniors.

Unless a prospect is going to be a solid contributor, its not worth it to bring them up to your team.

I would rather see an 19 year old score 100 points in juniors, than 20 in the NHL.

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07-30-2013, 05:05 PM
  #348
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For real?

Good chance to get there? Mike Richards is bloody good and you would be lucky for Horvat to turn into him.

That is like me saying Monahan has a pretty good chance to be as good as Toews.
And here come the Flames fans with the Monahan comparisons... Can't we have one Horvat/Monahan thread without the other being brought into it?

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07-30-2013, 05:28 PM
  #349
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And Mackinnon as well right?
Hey.. dont be upset with me because the flames are absolutely terrible at prospect development.

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07-30-2013, 05:35 PM
  #350
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And here come the Flames fans with the Monahan comparisons... Can't we have one Horvat/Monahan thread without the other being brought into it?

Funny part is, most Canucks fans (I think) would have no trouble admitting Monahan's upside is a player like Toews, but apparently thinking that our top prospect (taken 3 whole spots later in the same draft) could potentially as good as *gasp* Patrice Bergeron is just pie-in-the-sky Canuck optimism. Guess that is just the nature of the rivalry, though to be fair I recall at least one Oilers fan in this thread who seemed quite even-handed about Horvat so I guess some rivals are able to maintain some objectivity too. I've never seen the point in bashing rivals prospects myself. I may dislike the Flames and Oilers as teams, but I don't really dislike any of their players or prospects individually and actually quite like a number of them.

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