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Joffrey Lupul

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Old
08-14-2012, 07:45 PM
  #1
Tyler Biggs*
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Joffrey Lupul

Leafs need a #1 C, #1 G, size and toughness up front, leadership, shutdown D man (preferably top pairing and physical, doesn't have to be though), or an upgrade over Lupul so Lupul + for an upgrade.

What would you give up for him?

None of these BS post saying he is not available, or he is worth more to the Leafs then other teams. I just want to know his value and what others would give up for him, I don't care if you think he is available or not, or that you think he is worth more to the Leafs then to other teams, as I said I just want to know his value and what you guys would be willing to give up for him.

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08-14-2012, 07:46 PM
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Seeing his value is one thing, but trading him makes 0 sense. He is basically the only player other than maybe JVR now who battled (and won) in the corners and fought in front of the net.

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08-14-2012, 07:48 PM
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Originally Posted by TieClark View Post
Seeing his value is one thing, but trading him makes 0 sense. He is basically the only player other than maybe JVR now who battled (and won) in the corners and fought in front of the net.
If we can fill a hole or upgrade our lineup by trading him I am all for it.

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08-14-2012, 07:52 PM
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Sure... we can fill and hole and create another hole where Lupul was. It just doesn't make any sense to trade him.

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08-14-2012, 07:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MintoMadDogsKiller18 View Post
Leafs need a #1 C, #1 G, size and toughness up front, leadership, shutdown D man (preferably top pairing and physical, doesn't have to be though), or an upgrade over Lupul so Lupul + for an upgrade.

What would you give up for him?

None of these BS post saying he is not available, or he is worth more to the Leafs then other teams. I just want to know his value and what others would give up for him, I don't care if you think he is available or not, or that you think he is worth more to the Leafs then to other teams, as I said I just want to know his value and what you guys would be willing to give up for him.
You have already said to not say the best answer.

This thread is going to turn into someone giving you the value that they believe him to be worth (lower then his value to the leafs) and it's going to turn into a flame war.

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08-14-2012, 07:55 PM
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Originally Posted by TieClark View Post
Sure... we can fill and hole and create another hole where Lupul was. It just doesn't make any sense to trade him.
Create a hole that is filled by van Riemsdyk.

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08-14-2012, 08:00 PM
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Originally Posted by TieClark View Post
Sure... we can fill and hole and create another hole where Lupul was. It just doesn't make any sense to trade him.
I also mentioned to trade Lupul + for an upgrade. That doesn't create a hole on the roster unless we are trading a roster piece along with Lupul but the + could also be picks/prospects/depth players.

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08-14-2012, 08:05 PM
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One of the worst defensive forwards in the league. Not worth it for anyone else, even if he puts up a PPG. The Leafs would be extremely smart to trade him N O W. For a guy like Stephen Weiss or even for Luongo.

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08-14-2012, 08:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
Create a hole that is filled by van Riemsdyk.
Ok... but now you're still leaving a hole on your second line or at least downgrading it substantially imo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MintoMadDogsKiller18 View Post
I also mentioned to trade Lupul + for an upgrade. That doesn't create a hole on the roster unless we are trading a roster piece along with Lupul but the + could also be picks/prospects/depth players.
I don't see how we fill a hole plus acquire a solid top 6 winger for Lupul without adding substantially

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Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
One of the worst defensive forwards in the league. Not worth it for anyone else, even if he puts up a PPG. The Leafs would be extremely smart to trade him N O W. For a guy like Stephen Weiss or even for Luongo.
I wouldn't say he's good defensively but one of the worst is a drastic exaggeration

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08-14-2012, 08:16 PM
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Originally Posted by TieClark View Post
Ok... but now you're still leaving a hole on your second line or at least downgrading it substantially imo.


I don't see how we fill a hole plus acquire a solid top 6 winger for Lupul without adding substantially


I wouldn't say he's good defensively but one of the worst is a drastic exaggeration
I never said we are filling a hole + acquiring a solid top 6 winger, I said we can trade Lupul + for an upgrade over him (Bobby Ryan etc for example).

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08-14-2012, 08:17 PM
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He's not going to get you a #1 Centre, goalie, or defence. He's probably worth something similar to Vermette, a second rounder and a conditional pick. Lupul has a better PPG but Vermette is also very good on the PK face-offs, while Lupul is a career -52. Both are on middling contracts.

I can't imagine a single GM in the league looked ay Lupul and said "I'm going to make my team better by trading a key cog of my team for Lupul and futures."

Again, no one is ragging on the Leafs, or Lupul. It's just that he's coming off the best season of his professional career after the Ducks used him as a salary dump.

It was a great trade to get him for Toronto, but he's not worth a lot unless he can consistently put up a PPG and work hard on both ends of the ice.

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08-14-2012, 08:17 PM
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I'm a leafs fan, but last years performance doesn't mean he has some sort of insane value. He's been too inconsistent over the course of his career and he's been given big contracts and not delivered. His value right now is along the lines of a bottom 6 roster player + a prospect + a 3rd or 4th round pick. And I might be overestimating that, so it makes no sense to trade him

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08-14-2012, 08:20 PM
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Problem is Lupul won't land the Leafs a #1 C, and Leafs fans won't trade Lupul for a #1 goalie. And as others have stated, trading him would fill another hole. Doesn't seem like he is a wise asset to be trading unless he was part of some fantasy-leagues type trade where mulitple pieces were heading each way.

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08-14-2012, 08:23 PM
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Well, he did get scored on more frequently than any other player who played more than 40 games last season

http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stati...24+25+26+27+28


Last edited by spiny norman: 08-14-2012 at 11:10 PM. Reason: dqp
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08-14-2012, 08:24 PM
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Trading Lupul simply isn't going to be worth it, no team is going to value him as the near 30-goal scorer that Toronto is.

However, the idea of trading him isn't something that should be dismissed as quickly as it is in this thread. People mention creating one hole to fill another, that's not really the case. Toronto has plenty of depth on the wing, and if they were to lose Lupul, for say, a top line centre, then it's not like there would be a glaring hole in our lineup. JvR comes to the top line LW, you've got MacArthur and Kulemin on the #2 unit, and a conbination of Kadri/Bozak/Connolly/Lombardi/McClement/Frattin on the 3rd line.

That being said, considering the value teams are going to place on Lupul, he's not going to be the piece that gets us a #1 centre, doesn't need to be the guy we trade to get a #1 goalie, and doesn't make sense to trade for an equivalent calibre shutdown dman. A goalie can be acquired with less important assets, as can a defenceman most likely.

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08-14-2012, 08:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IranCondraAffair View Post
He's not going to get you a #1 Centre, goalie, or defence. He's probably worth something similar to Vermette, a second rounder and a conditional pick. Lupul has a better PPG but Vermette is also very good on the PK face-offs, while Lupul is a career -52. Both are on middling contracts.

I can't imagine a single GM in the league looked ay Lupul and said "I'm going to make my team better by trading a key cog of my team for Lupul and futures."

Again, no one is ragging on the Leafs, or Lupul. It's just that he's coming off the best season of his professional career after the Ducks used him as a salary dump.

It was a great trade to get him for Toronto, but he's not worth a lot unless he can consistently put up a PPG and work hard on both ends of the ice.
Well the Ducks used him as a salary dump because of his injuries... he was regarded as a top prospect, had numerous injuries and then finally broke out last season (but still missed significant time with an unrelated injury). The only reason a GM would be wary about paying a premium for Lupul is the injuries... which is a legitimate concern.

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08-14-2012, 08:27 PM
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Originally Posted by MintoMadDogsKiller18 View Post
I never said we are filling a hole + acquiring a solid top 6 winger, I said we can trade Lupul + for an upgrade over him (Bobby Ryan etc for example).
Last season Bobby Ryan isn't an upgrade... the value is there but again it makes 0 sense for the leafs to basically trade assets for no gain.

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08-14-2012, 08:33 PM
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Last season Bobby Ryan isn't an upgrade... the value is there but again it makes 0 sense for the leafs to basically trade assets for no gain.
I think it's fair to say Bobby Ryan is an upgrade over Lupul.

Ryan is 4 years younger and has 5 20+ goal seasons (4 30+); Lupul has 4 20+ goal seasons (0 30+). The value isn't even close in my opinion.

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08-14-2012, 08:34 PM
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I would much rather have bobby ryan than lupul.

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08-14-2012, 08:37 PM
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Because since 2007, only five forwards in the NHL have been on the ice for more 5v5 goals against per 60 minutes than Lupul and all of them are out of the league except for Lupul’s linemate Tyler Bozak. Lupul plays sheltered minutes and it's not like he's had poor shooting luck.


Last edited by spiny norman: 08-14-2012 at 11:11 PM. Reason: dqp
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08-14-2012, 08:42 PM
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I think it's fair to say Bobby Ryan is an upgrade over Lupul.

Ryan is 4 years younger and has 5 20+ goal seasons (4 30+); Lupul has 4 20+ goal seasons (0 30+). The value isn't even close in my opinion.
Last year Lupul had 10 more points in 16 less games... and it's not as if Ryan doesn't get significant minutes or has limited skill playing with him.

I agree Ryan is worth more, but production wise the Leafs having Ryan over Lupul at this point is pretty stagnant.. and also requires the Leafs to give up other assets in order to do it.

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08-14-2012, 08:43 PM
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Well, he did get scored on more frequently than any other player who played more than 40 games last season

http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stati...24+25+26+27+28
You also got to take into consideration he plays more minutes per game then some of those forwards on that list, so more minutes on ice = higher chance of getting scored on.

He was also +1 on the season, so he was on the ice for more goals for then against.

Also you cannot put all the blame on him for those GA. You have to fault the goalies, defence and his linemates who were on the ice with him when those goals against happened as well.

You also cannot just use GA On/60 to decide if a player is good defensively or not, there are just too many factors. The quality of teammates he is playing with, how good the teams goaltending is, the minutes the player plays etc. Under Wilson the team played a more run n gun style which led to more scoring chances against which led to more GA. I am sure if Lupul played on a better team with better goaltending and better players and a better GA his GA On/60 would be less.

I am not saying the GA On/60 has no meaning whatsoever, but you cannot base how good a player is defensively just off of that.

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08-14-2012, 08:45 PM
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Originally Posted by TieClark View Post
Last year Lupul had 10 more points in 16 less games... and it's not as if Ryan doesn't get significant minutes or has limited skill playing with him.

I agree Ryan is worth more, but production wise the Leafs having Ryan over Lupul at this point is pretty stagnant.. and also requires the Leafs to give up other assets in order to do it.
Nonsense. Ryan had an "off" year whereas Lupul had a "career" year. The funny part is their numbers were comparable. This doesn't change the fact that Ryan is 4 years younger, has shown to be a lot more consistent, and isn't a defensive liability.

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08-14-2012, 08:45 PM
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I would much rather have bobby ryan than lupul.
Same.

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08-14-2012, 08:51 PM
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Well, he did get scored on more frequently than any other player who played more than 40 games last season

http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stati...24+25+26+27+28
To be fair half of that list is players from toronto... so i think its a team thing!

And anyone who would take lupul over ryan is brain dead.

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