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08-23-2012, 05:13 PM
  #76
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Kadri as 1C and Bozak as 3C. Bozak is a perfect 3C and I hope he gets a chance to prove it.

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08-23-2012, 05:21 PM
  #77
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Kadri is better as a winger so Bozak

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08-23-2012, 05:55 PM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
The question last year he may not be as apparently overrated at 2.9M per, but at 5.5M per, frankly I am curious to those that have criticized me by saying I have been too hard on him, that I hate Grabo and or Russian(Belarussians), will the 'Halo' on Grabo wear thin if his play does not equal being the highest paid forward on the team?

Yes, I am looking forward in seeing what happens this season when and if people suddenly start agreeing with me.

Might be shaking my head if that happens.
I am willing challenge you that Grabo still will play more consistently defensive wise than Bozak in the upcoming season. Grabovski might go on those cold streaks pointswise but he still is a workhorse and defensively good, rarely do I see the guy out of position.

The value of Grabovski is higher than Bozak is due to his skill AND his defensive game. Let's be honest, bozak aside from his defensive game isn't an ideal second line center, he is a third line center who is very good defensively and can from time to time take that spot in the second line. Grabovski on the other? Second line center to a tee.

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08-23-2012, 06:09 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by tpc77 View Post
I actually looked at that a couple months ago.

I think there were only 10-12 players with better NHL PPG than Bozak in the whole draft class.

I also wonder why people hate on him soooo much.



I bet if he had a "1st Round, #16 overall" tag with him everyone would love him and be talking about him as a cornerstone to our future team.
I don't. It's called welcome to Toronto Bozie.

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08-23-2012, 06:24 PM
  #80
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I don't. It's called welcome to Toronto Bozie.
sad truth. rielly has already become the most overrated prospect/useless lol

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08-23-2012, 06:28 PM
  #81
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Bozak, atm.

At this point Bozak is better than Kadri defensively which is the key. The top line had no problems scoring goals last year. It's problem was allowing goals which is why Bozak is the better fit right now until Kadri improves the defensive side of his game, which he has been.

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08-23-2012, 06:42 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Leaf Rocket View Post
sad truth. rielly has already become the most overrated prospect/useless lol
It is the sad truth but I wouldn't go that far with Rielly, and least not yet. Most knowledgeable Leaf fans (and many fans that are not) realize we might just have a gem in our hands with this kid.

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08-23-2012, 06:50 PM
  #83
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If we're going to play Kadri at C this year, I think something like this would make more sense:

Lupul - Bozak - Kessel
JVR - Grabo - Mac
Kulemin - Kadri - Frattin
Komarov - McClement - Brown

He'd be a good fit with Kulemin and Frattin, actually. Two strong, physical snipers to take care of the board work and goal scoring, while Kadri focuses on his strengths, puck handling and playmaking.

He has barely made the NHL at all yet, even as a 3rd liner. No need to throw him into the fire as our #1 C saviour, especially since we've been grooming him more and more to be a winger. I feel like Bozak will be our #1 C again, and if anyone has a shot to take his job it sounds like it might be JVR, not Kadri.

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08-23-2012, 06:57 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebluemachine View Post
It is the sad truth but I wouldn't go that far with Rielly, and least not yet. Most knowledgeable Leaf fans (and many fans that are not) realize we might just have a gem in our hands with this kid.
Oh people will change their tunes as soon as the season starts lol. Especially with the illogical fans who will put other defensemen in our trade proposal as Rielly is in our system now lol.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ponder View Post
If we're going to play Kadri at C this year, I think something like this would make more sense:

Lupul - Bozak - Kessel
JVR - Grabo - Mac
Kulemin - Kadri - Frattin
Komarov - McClement - Brown

He'd be a good fit with Kulemin and Frattin, actually. Two strong, physical snipers to take care of the board work and goal scoring, while Kadri focuses on his strengths, puck handling and playmaking.

He has barely made the NHL at all yet, even as a 3rd liner. No need to throw him into the fire as our #1 C saviour, especially since we've been grooming him more and more to be a winger. I feel like Bozak will be our #1 C again, and if anyone has a shot to take his job it sounds like it might be JVR, not Kadri.
I think your proposal of letting him play in the third line center is okay, but no to keep him there, I'd imagine if he continues to strive under Carlyle's tutelage, he could really steal that spot from Bozak.

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08-23-2012, 06:57 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
And Gagner is almost 14 months older than Kadri.
And has had 5 full years to show his potential. It is not all about age.

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08-23-2012, 06:58 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Whydidijoin View Post
And has had 5 full years to show his potential. It is not all about age.
well there is always next year, he is still young I guess but yea he hasn't exactly shined as he was advertised I'd say.

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08-23-2012, 07:03 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terrence View Post
Bozak, atm.

At this point Bozak is better than Kadri defensively which is the key. The top line had no problems scoring goals last year. It's problem was allowing goals which is why Bozak is the better fit right now until Kadri improves the defensive side of his game, which he has been.
Under Wilson they had no problem scoring goals relying on lupul kessel and bozak to play a cycle game is a horrible idea imo

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08-23-2012, 08:50 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Leaf Rocket View Post
I am willing challenge you that Grabo still will play more consistently defensive wise than Bozak in the upcoming season. Grabovski might go on those cold streaks pointswise but he still is a workhorse and defensively good, rarely do I see the guy out of position.

The value of Grabovski is higher than Bozak is due to his skill AND his defensive game. Let's be honest, bozak aside from his defensive game isn't an ideal second line center, he is a third line center who is very good defensively and can from time to time take that spot in the second line. Grabovski on the other? Second line center to a tee.
Aside from his paycheck (he's a great player to have at $2.9M, not so much at $5.5M), this is what makes Grabo overrated. He's really not that good defensively.

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08-23-2012, 08:54 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by 4evaBlue View Post
Aside from his paycheck (he's a great player to have at $2.9M, not so much at $5.5M), this is what makes Grabo overrated. He's really not that good defensively.
In a market like this one where good UFA are scarce he would have scored more money and probably a longer term. Especially before the new CBA set in. In an Ideal UFA crop, yea 5 mil would be the price tag but that extra half a mil was there I'd say to keep him here.

Well he was heavily relied by Wilson and when Carlyle came over same story, I'd think there is more to him than just being good defensively. Especially since the latter is a coach that preaches defense more.

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08-23-2012, 08:57 PM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaf Rocket View Post
I am willing challenge you that Grabo still will play more consistently defensive wise than Bozak in the upcoming season. Grabovski might go on those cold streaks pointswise but he still is a workhorse and defensively good, rarely do I see the guy out of position.

The value of Grabovski is higher than Bozak is due to his skill AND his defensive game. Let's be honest, bozak aside from his defensive game isn't an ideal second line center, he is a third line center who is very good defensively and can from time to time take that spot in the second line. Grabovski on the other? Second line center to a tee.
I'll take that challenge, I have confidence Bozak will improve this year under Carlyle and with more experience. He's playing for a contract and his caphit is small in relation to Grabo's. Grabo is also entering his 5th full season and Bozak his 3rd, so Grabo is naturally ahead in development at this stage of their careers.

No one like a person that says I told you so, but I am also willing to wager Grabo will feel the weight of being the highest paid fwd on the team, by this I mean expectations of fans. It's one thing to receive the fan's love of being the ideal 2nd C at 2.9 per year, it's foreign territory for Grabo to be the 2nd highest paid Leaf on the roster, ahead of Kessel, Lupul and JVR.

I've seen a lot of high paid Leafs in my time that get criticism when they don't live up to their salary, how Grabo is received this year will be very interesting if he is not better than Bozak, we know he will not be better than Lupul and Kessel. I think JVR is the wildcard, big year or transition?

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08-23-2012, 09:07 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by 4evaBlue View Post
Aside from his paycheck (he's a great player to have at $2.9M, not so much at $5.5M), this is what makes Grabo overrated. He's really not that good defensively.
Potentially I can see 4 Leafs fwds having more productive years than Grabo.

JVR, Bozak, Kessel, and Lupul. If this happens and Grabo is the highest paid fwd, no one will even mention Komi this season.

Chances of this happening are 50-50, 60-40?

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08-23-2012, 09:10 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Leaf Rocket View Post
In a market like this one where good UFA are scarce he would have scored more money and probably a longer term. Especially before the new CBA set in. In an Ideal UFA crop, yea 5 mil would be the price tag but that extra half a mil was there I'd say to keep him here.
I'd say about $4-$4.5M, not $5M, so in my eyes, he's about $1M-$1.5M overpaid. Players overpaid by about the same amount on the current Leafs roster include: Phaneuf, Komisarek, and Connolly, and they get a rough ride around here for being worthless.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaf Rocket View Post
Well he was heavily relied by Wilson and when Carlyle came over same story, I'd think there is more to him than just being good defensively. Especially since the latter is a coach that preaches defense more.
Wilson only used them as a shutdown line for a few games, and Grabo and Kulie hardly had any PK time at all, certainly none as the team managed to climb its way out of the bottom rated PK team. They were part of the problem with our PK.

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08-23-2012, 09:11 PM
  #93
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Trying Kadri out between Kessel and Lupul couldn't hurt I think, the same with JVR, those 2 bring different elements to the game and who knows it might work. Try it out and see. I think putting almost anyone the leafs have between Kessel and Lupul won't hinder offensive production much at all for the line, heck even Kessel alone will put up good numbers if his linemates aren't top line material as shown in his first 2 years playing for the Leafs, he's that talented but, would just be less consistent and more streaky.

Grabo is good for the #2 C on our team, he isn't a big player, but he isn't shy of contact at all, in fact he loves to play physical in the sense of using body to battle for position, and likes when opposing players get physical on him. He won't back down. He has one of the best work ethic on the team and works hard a lot. Reads plays well and is good at getting open for teammates to pass to for good scoring opportunities. He positions himself well for deflections, rebounds and one timers. He's speedy and drives to the net a lot to look for opportunities. His production even though was good, would've been more but by the last 17 or so games, his linesmates were mostly combinations of mac, kule, frattin, ashton, crabb and a bit of kadri, connolly, and hamilton.

Bozak has improved last season, he's decent defensively and good at face-offs. He's still just unfit as a #1 C but of course the Leafs don't have other options yet so far.

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08-23-2012, 10:32 PM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
Potentially I can see 4 Leafs fwds having more productive years than Grabo.

JVR, Bozak, Kessel, and Lupul. If this happens and Grabo is the highest paid fwd, no one will even mention Komi this season.

Chances of this happening are 50-50, 60-40?
In one year Lupul will be higher paid than Grabovski and shortly after, Kessel higher than anyone else. You're placing higher expectations on Grabo than anyone else so that you could try and convince people you were right about something. If he plays the same style and intensity while putting up 50+ points he'll be fine. Quit your whining already

As far as who will play with Kessel and Lupul, Bozak and JvR have the spotlight. It's up to Nazem to steal it

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08-23-2012, 10:35 PM
  #95
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give kadri a chance, if not then bozak

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08-23-2012, 11:18 PM
  #96
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Kadri. Shows lots of potential and played solid when he was called up and in the AHL. Bozak is a 3rd liner at best. Constantly failed playing with Kessel/Lupul

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08-24-2012, 05:35 AM
  #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GordieHoweHatTrick View Post
In one year Lupul will be higher paid than Grabovski and shortly after, Kessel higher than anyone else. You're placing higher expectations on Grabo than anyone else so that you could try and convince people you were right about something. If he plays the same style and intensity while putting up 50+ points he'll be fine. Quit your whining already

As far as who will play with Kessel and Lupul, Bozak and JvR have the spotlight. It's up to Nazem to steal it
They aren't this year and next for Kessel, JVR and Bozie.

When Grabo hits one of his 1 goal in 15 game slumps or is perhaps 5th in team scoring, can I quote this post? I'll save it to my notepad.

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08-24-2012, 05:39 AM
  #98
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1. Kessel
2. Grabovski
3. Lupul
4. Van Riemsdyk
5. Kulemin
6. MacArthur
7. Bozak
8. Frattin
9. Connolly
10. Kadri
11. McClement
12. Brown
13. Steckel
14. Lombardi
15. Komarov
16. Orr

Lupul-Bozak-Kessel
MacArthur-Grabovski-Van Riemsdyk
Kulemin-McClement-Frattin*
Brown-Steckel-Connolly
(Kadri-Lombardi-Komarov)

Lupul-Bozak-Kessel
MacArthur-Grabovski-Van Riemsdyk
Kadri-McClement-Kulemin
Brown-Steckel-Connolly

13th forward: Lombardi
Marlies:Komarov)

I'm not sure where Kadri fits in our lineup right now. The best fit looks to be either the #1C or 3rd line/checking line winger.

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08-24-2012, 06:02 AM
  #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K19 View Post
1. Kessel
2. Grabovski
3. Lupul
4. Van Riemsdyk
5. Kulemin
6. MacArthur
7. Bozak
8. Frattin
9. Connolly
10. Kadri
11. McClement
12. Brown
13. Steckel
14. Lombardi
15. Komarov
16. Orr

Lupul-Bozak-Kessel
MacArthur-Grabovski-Van Riemsdyk
Kulemin-McClement-Frattin*
Brown-Steckel-Connolly
(Kadri-Lombardi-Komarov)

Lupul-Bozak-Kessel
MacArthur-Grabovski-Van Riemsdyk
Kadri-McClement-Kulemin
Brown-Steckel-Connolly

13th forward: Lombardi
Marlies:Komarov)

I'm not sure where Kadri fits in our lineup right now. The best fit looks to be either the #1C or 3rd line/checking line winger.
Kadri is very much the future of the Leafs, his development is very important to the franchise moving fwd. This is his most important year to date, for him to suceed he needs top 9 mins, perhaps top 6.

Bozak was our best C the last 2 months of the season and when RC took over, if he continues to play this way, he should be our best C this year. He is one of the few that can play well with Kessel and Lupul. He's also got size, people forget he is 6'1 almost 200 lbs. He has to be in the top 6.

For me the top 6 should be Bozak, Lupul, and Kessel. If Kadri is ready put him with JVR and Frattin.

Kule can be the defensive conscience of the Grabo, Mac line that only seems to do well when together. Though for me this line works solely due to Kule, as evidenced when he went down they went silent.

This is not a bad top 9, 4th line Orr, Mcclement and Brown. Not sure where the rest fit in.

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08-24-2012, 06:44 AM
  #100
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I'd like to see Kadri play with Grabbo and JVR

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