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Old
08-22-2012, 10:50 PM
  #1
Alan Ryan
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Players want a crackdown on diving

From an article in USA Today: http://content.usatoday.com/communit...1#.UDWnNa40Ewg

The NHL held a summit on hooking, holding and interference this week, and diving rose near the top of the list of player concerns.

According to NHL.com, league executive Colin Campbell said Wednesday that players wanted a list of offenders distributed to on-ice officials and to teams for posting on bulletin boards.

"They want to get (the list) out there," Campbell told the website. "They want the player to be caught, whether it's on the ice by the referee or by us on video. They are all tired of diving. The object is to make them stop eventually and, by doing that, they can get it out there around the league, embarrass them. The referees will know it, too, so the divers don't get the benefit of the doubt."


Thank goodness most of the players get it.

Get it done NHL--do whatever it takes to get this nonsense out of the game.

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08-22-2012, 11:02 PM
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The simplest solution to the rampant diving problem is to call it a ******* penalty consistently. If it hurts the offending player's team on a regular basis it will stop.

The problem is that for some reason refs are so reluctant/afraid/chicken**** to call diving on its own that they cop out and call both, if they call it at all. Having teams play 4-on-4 because a player dove is also not a punishment; in fact, it could be an advantage with the open ice.

If you call diving as a solo offense with regularity, it will eventually stop. It may take some guys longer than others to get, but when the pressure is coming from within their own organization, specifically their coaches and teammates, to knock that **** off because we're having to constantly go on the PK for it, it will end.

And in the rare situations where a call for both diving and another infraction is indeed warranted (which is rare but is called all the time) what refs need to do is only call the dive. Tell the players that they (the refs) know what these calls are and don't need help. Show them that now not only are you not drawing a PP for your team, you are in fact the only person going to the box. It would have been a penalty if you hadn't flopped.

That will solve this issue faster than even any embarrassing list could. But keep the list too, just so Montreal and Buffalo can be on top of the standings for something.

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08-22-2012, 11:11 PM
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Ryan Kesler after hearing news of stricter penalties:


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08-22-2012, 11:15 PM
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EverettMike
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Not sure if this is related or not but Montreal announced it is leaving the NHL.

Vancouver is expected to follow.

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08-22-2012, 11:26 PM
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This is great. I've heard so much crap from announcers, saying "well if it gets you a PP then it's effective and warranted." **** that.

Diving is for soccer and basketball, not hockey. Every time Marchy embellishes I cringe. It would make players like Burrows, Lapierre and Kesler look like fools and that's enough to get me on board. I would even venture to say I would rather my team have no PPs for a game than get 3 from diving. I hate it. On teams I played on growing up the coach would sit you if you dove or stayed down too long. Penalize the frauds that do it and suspend them if they get 5. Sorry for the rant but diving gets me fired up.

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08-23-2012, 03:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EverettMike View Post
Not sure if this is related or not but Montreal announced it is leaving the NHL.

Vancouver is expected to follow.


Well played sir. Well played.

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08-23-2012, 06:14 AM
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Originally Posted by CanadianBruinsFan View Post
This is great. I've heard so much crap from announcers, saying "well if it gets you a PP then it's effective and warranted." **** that.
Unfortunately, it's the truth. It's become the standard to dive to get calls. The NHL has already tried multiple times to combat it with no success. It's just something that will never change.

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08-23-2012, 06:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bridges31 View Post
Unfortunately, it's the truth. It's become the standard to dive to get calls. The NHL has already tried multiple times to combat it with no success. It's just something that will never change.
Half-hearted attempts at the beginning of the season that disappear soon after are not valid attempts to clean it up. If they called diving with the same regularity they called hooking, slashing and cross-checking it would reduce it dramatically.

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08-23-2012, 06:20 AM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBadBruin8 View Post
The simplest solution to the rampant diving problem is to call it a ******* penalty consistently. If it hurts the offending player's team on a regular basis it will stop.

The problem is that for some reason refs are so reluctant/afraid/chicken**** to call diving on its own that they cop out and call both, if they call it at all. Having teams play 4-on-4 because a player dove is also not a punishment; in fact, it could be an advantage with the open ice.

If you call diving as a solo offense with regularity, it will eventually stop. It may take some guys longer than others to get, but when the pressure is coming from within their own organization, specifically their coaches and teammates, to knock that **** off because we're having to constantly go on the PK for it, it will end.

And in the rare situations where a call for both diving and another infraction is indeed warranted (which is rare but is called all the time) what refs need to do is only call the dive. Tell the players that they (the refs) know what these calls are and don't need help. Show them that now not only are you not drawing a PP for your team, you are in fact the only person going to the box. It would have been a penalty if you hadn't flopped.

That will solve this issue faster than even any embarrassing list could. But keep the list too, just so Montreal and Buffalo can be on top of the standings for something.
QFT

The thought that a ref would call just the dive to show that diving is a worse infraction than a hook or a trip is the correct mindset for the officials but will it fly???

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08-23-2012, 06:35 AM
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I just sat in on an Amateur Coaching Seminar/Rules conference a week ago in New Brunswick, now, in no way can I compare refereeing and punishments of Amateur`s to the pro`s but one system of penalizing that passed a vote to move forward to the next step (this will/would take about a decade to pass as the process is like a Gov`t moving forward) was how many mins the Ref`s are free to hand out as penalties based on their judgement.

Much of these are based on severity, sorry, paperwork isn`t nearby so going on memory here and these are simply examples but there is an embellishment and ironically, tis one of the more harsh penalties as 89 of the 100 coaches there believe it hurts the integrity of the game

Examples:

Embellishment- 4 minute penalty, absolutely no wavering

Slashing- From 2 to 5 minutes dependant on the severity

Roughing (and this one involved the most components) varied anywhere from a 2 minute penalty to a game misconduct based on severity

Head Shot- it`s own category, and this rule was opened to the floor, and voted on with a resounding Yes immediately , contact to the head, player gone, sounds harsh but.....our team alone lost 3 players last year to concussions, yet there is still a tremendously large portion of fans who maintain the old "shake off the cobweb" attitude, and the player who received the contact to the head, regardless if he/she feels "fine" is done until examined by a physician, absolutely no return until the League has been submitted paperwork by the examining Dr.

Essentially, as we find/see many kids now playing with far more aggression and lack of respect for their peers, it was felt a conference such as this needed to be put together with coaches, and although there was a ton of hot air being blown around, and some disappointment as 400 invites went out with only a quarter showing up.

If any of these changes actually happen, I hope it doesn`t turn into a hampster wheel of penalty calls but the overwhelming majority of the coaches all agreed, in only a few short years, Minor Hockey (AA) has/is become far more violent, has far too many incidents where the integrity of the game is at risk.

When it comes to the NHL level, sorry, it`ll be like everything else they do, they`ll crack down hard initially, then by the halfway point of the year, it`ll be like rule didn`t exist again.


Last edited by ODAAT: 08-23-2012 at 06:40 AM.
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08-23-2012, 07:07 AM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReggieMoto View Post
Half-hearted attempts at the beginning of the season that disappear soon after are not valid attempts to clean it up. If they called diving with the same regularity they called hooking, slashing and cross-checking it would reduce it dramatically.
Agree completely. Often the justification for diving and embellishing is disguised under the the 'doing whatever it takes to win' banner, and there are teams in the league that live by it.

Don't want to mention any team names here but one team's initials are Montreal Canadians. There are others but they have been one of the worst offenders for decades. It's disgusting.

The league doesn't appear to know how or simply doesn't have the stones to address it. After all the 'power play' is a sexy part of the game and for several teams, like the Habs, it's the only part of their game most years. Five on 5, they'd starve to death. Ever wonder why they spend 80% of practices working on the power play? So they can 'do whatever it takes to win'. Did I mention it's disgusting. Time to deal with it Mr. Campbell.

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08-23-2012, 07:55 AM
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Not sure if this is related or not but Montreal announced it is leaving the NHL.

Vancouver is expected to follow.

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08-23-2012, 08:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBadBruin8 View Post
The simplest solution to the rampant diving problem is to call it a ******* penalty consistently. If it hurts the offending player's team on a regular basis it will stop.

The problem is that for some reason refs are so reluctant/afraid/chicken**** to call diving on its own that they cop out and call both, if they call it at all. Having teams play 4-on-4 because a player dove is also not a punishment; in fact, it could be an advantage with the open ice.

If you call diving as a solo offense with regularity, it will eventually stop. It may take some guys longer than others to get, but when the pressure is coming from within their own organization, specifically their coaches and teammates, to knock that **** off because we're having to constantly go on the PK for it, it will end.

And in the rare situations where a call for both diving and another infraction is indeed warranted (which is rare but is called all the time) what refs need to do is only call the dive. Tell the players that they (the refs) know what these calls are and don't need help. Show them that now not only are you not drawing a PP for your team, you are in fact the only person going to the box. It would have been a penalty if you hadn't flopped.

That will solve this issue faster than even any embarrassing list could. But keep the list too, just so Montreal and Buffalo can be on top of the standings for something.
This ^

I especially like the list idea. These players should be shamed as well as penalized for this garbage. This isn't World Cup soccer ffs....

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08-23-2012, 08:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EverettMike View Post
Not sure if this is related or not but Montreal announced it is leaving the NHL.

Vancouver is expected to follow.
And Brad Marchand? Would love to see him stop this crap too.

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08-23-2012, 08:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBadBruin8 View Post
The simplest solution to the rampant diving problem is to call it a ******* penalty consistently. If it hurts the offending player's team on a regular basis it will stop.

The problem is that for some reason refs are so reluctant/afraid/chicken**** to call diving on its own that they cop out and call both, if they call it at all. Having teams play 4-on-4 because a player dove is also not a punishment; in fact, it could be an advantage with the open ice.

If you call diving as a solo offense with regularity, it will eventually stop. It may take some guys longer than others to get, but when the pressure is coming from within their own organization, specifically their coaches and teammates, to knock that **** off because we're having to constantly go on the PK for it, it will end.

And in the rare situations where a call for both diving and another infraction is indeed warranted (which is rare but is called all the time) what refs need to do is only call the dive. Tell the players that they (the refs) know what these calls are and don't need help. Show them that now not only are you not drawing a PP for your team, you are in fact the only person going to the box. It would have been a penalty if you hadn't flopped.

That will solve this issue faster than even any embarrassing list could. But keep the list too, just so Montreal and Buffalo can be on top of the standings for something.
I agree and if they don't want to make the dive a solo call make it a doubleminor so the diving team is hurt more then the team that gets the other call. It's really not that hard to fix.

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08-23-2012, 08:09 AM
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And Brad Marchand? Would love to see him stop this crap too.
Amen.

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08-23-2012, 08:16 AM
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I don't see anything changing. The same uproar is heard year after year and nothing is done about it.

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08-23-2012, 08:17 AM
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There are a lot of players that dive for 'gamesmanship'. Most I would say. But I think part of the problem is that there are a lot of players that embellish because they can't get calls. Chara had the 'dives' a couple seasons back for several weeks, and it wasn't because another player didn't try to reenact Lincoln's youth with Chara's legs as the cherry tree. The guy just doesn't go do easy, and so it wasn't a call.
Don't get me wrong. It's still not justified in my book. But I do think a third of these embellishments are due to player frustration at officials missing too much or more likely over-thinking things.
The refs need to get over the he's too big, or he's too mean, or he's got too much of a bad rep so I must not have seen him on the wrong side of a penalty attitude.

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08-23-2012, 09:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBadBruin8 View Post
The simplest solution to the rampant diving problem is to call it a ******* penalty consistently. If it hurts the offending player's team on a regular basis it will stop.

The problem is that for some reason refs are so reluctant/afraid/chicken**** to call diving on its own that they cop out and call both, if they call it at all. Having teams play 4-on-4 because a player dove is also not a punishment; in fact, it could be an advantage with the open ice.

If you call diving as a solo offense with regularity, it will eventually stop. It may take some guys longer than others to get, but when the pressure is coming from within their own organization, specifically their coaches and teammates, to knock that **** off because we're having to constantly go on the PK for it, it will end.

And in the rare situations where a call for both diving and another infraction is indeed warranted (which is rare but is called all the time) what refs need to do is only call the dive. Tell the players that they (the refs) know what these calls are and don't need help. Show them that now not only are you not drawing a PP for your team, you are in fact the only person going to the box. It would have been a penalty if you hadn't flopped.
That will solve this issue faster than even any embarrassing list could. But keep the list too, just so Montreal and Buffalo can be on top of the standings for something.
I disagree with the bolded. A penalty is a penalty is a penalty.

That said, I agree with everything else you wrote, wholeheartedly.

Not holding my breath waiting for the league to act on it, though.

P.S. I'd also be on board for calling 2 for the hook/trip, but a double minor for the dive.

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08-23-2012, 09:35 AM
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Marchand is going to have to get off the list this year....These players will never get the benefit..

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08-23-2012, 09:47 AM
  #21
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IMO, the only way to deal with this is to fine the player and the team. It's too tough for the refs to consistently make the right call during the action. Hit them where it hurts.

Also, if it is public shame that they want, I'd have a player have to wear a Scarlett Letter D on the front of their jersey for the next five games after getting called for a dive.

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08-23-2012, 09:58 AM
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Not sure if this is related or not but Montreal announced it is leaving the NHL.

Vancouver is expected to follow.
This made me burst out laughing -

And yes, a big fat neon glow-in-the-dark D for the divers - and I also hope Brad gets this out of his system - he has too much talent for this.

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08-23-2012, 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by EverettMike View Post
Not sure if this is related or not but Montreal announced it is leaving the NHL.

Vancouver is expected to follow.
In an early morning stupor, you caught me a bit off-guard.

At first I was like, wut, but then I lol'd.

I agree with what most people are saying, the simplest solution is to call the penalty that is already in place more consistently. I don't understand why that is such a difficult concept, it's usually fairly obvious when a player has embellished something physically. See for example: Every 3rd period played in the history of the Bell Centre.

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08-23-2012, 10:25 AM
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Encouraging. Diving really hurts the game. No team is affected more than the Bruins, imo.

Teams like the Bruins are punished more than anyone else. For all the whining a/b them being dirty, they're actually one of the most disciplined teams I've ever watched. They don't take a lot of stupid or lazy penalties to begin with. At least until opponents start diving all over the place.

With the exception of Marchand, they're a stand up team. They're going to out work you and wear you down. They won a cup doing just that. They're going to fight through hooks and holds to get that puck. Are they rewarded for that work ethic? More often than not, nope. In this day and age, if you don't fall down, you aren't getting the call.

If diving wasn't rewarded, players wouldn't do it in the first place. The refs need the ability to overrule a bad call, instead of just trying to make up for it later on. Another part of the problem.

It would also be nice if the refs actually implemented the rule against diving already in place. Duh.

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08-23-2012, 10:32 AM
  #25
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Glad it's being addressed, but a list isn't severe enough, IMO.

Solution: Make diving a 5 minute major.

No player is going to risk a 5 minute major for a 2 minute PP. No coach is going to want to be put in that situation either. Even if they continue to call diving as infrequently as they do, the threat of a major penalty should be severe enough to make players think twice.

The problem won't be solved until the punishment is harsher than the reward.

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