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Does a lockout mark the end of our time as contenders?

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Old
08-23-2012, 06:32 PM
  #26
serge2k
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Originally Posted by CanuckLuck View Post
Agreed.

If you look around the league, I feel as if this Canucks team still has more to prove than any other team. It's weird what the perception is. I suppose years and years of mediocrity have ruined the confidence of our fans.
It's not just that, when they were just an average team you could hope for a run. Devils did that this year.

But they can't even win when they are the best team in the league.

Can't beat chicago without game 7 OT despite being up 3-0.

They really just give no reason to think they are going to go on a run beyond the idea that they should. There is no real hope that they have more than they have shown. Can't win as an average team,can't win as a pretty good team, can't win as an elite team. So what else is there?

They should be capable of winning it. They have the roster, they have the experience.

The expectation at this point is that they win the cup. With that in mind people are going to be pessimistic because it is just much easier to see the problems.

If they were still 3rd place in the conference every year then it's easy to fool yourself into thinking they are better than they are.

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08-23-2012, 06:32 PM
  #27
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I already mentioned the 3rd line center slot not really being filled that you evaded. Do you think Schroeder is going to play those minutes in the playoffs? I'm not saying it's impossible, I really want to know.
We still have both the third line centre's from that team, Schroeder in the mix and the offseason isn't over. I know people are writing Manny off but players just don't have good seasons without being able to train in the offseason. None of them.

We also have players that I feel are still improving. Higgins was a better player in '12 then he was in '11, I think you can say the same for Hansen. Booth and Garrison are better players all around than Torres and Ehrhoff. Ballard and Tanev are both better players now. We have young guys with an opportunity to make an impact. Our 4th line will be miles better then the one we had during that run. I see a lot reasons to be optimistic about this team being better then that team.

The goaltending hasn't sorted itself out yet but I believe Schneider is the real deal and if anything, we are going to get better goaltending in the playoffs. That's not a shot at Lu, it's just how much I like Schneider.

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08-23-2012, 06:37 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by CanuckLuck View Post
Agreed.

If you look around the league, I feel as if this Canucks team still has more to prove than any other team. It's weird what the perception is. I suppose years and years of mediocrity have ruined the confidence of our fans.
Agreed, they should unretire Smyle and Lindens numbers as well and hang up our only true HOF Bure beside Nazzy. When Gretzky was asked what would have brought him back for one more year he said there was only one thing that would have persuaded him but being the humble guy that he was he never brought it up with the Rangers management. That one thing was for him to be able to play with the greatest pure goal scorer he has ever seen (Pavel Bure). We do celebrate mediority cause it's all a Canuck fan knows, one thing a Canuck fan has never seen is a team with the presidents trophy, let alone 2, in a row.

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08-23-2012, 06:43 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
We still have both the third line centre's from that team, Schroeder in the mix and the offseason isn't over. I know people are writing Manny off but players just don't have good seasons without being able to train in the offseason. None of them.

We also have players that I feel are still improving. Higgins was a better player in '12 then he was in '11, I think you can say the same for Hansen. Booth and Garrison are better players all around than Torres and Ehrhoff. Ballard and Tanev are both better players now. We have young guys with an opportunity to make an impact. Our 4th line will be miles better then the one we had during that run. I see a lot reasons to be optimistic about this team being better then that team.

The goaltending hasn't sorted itself out yet but I believe Schneider is the real deal and if anything, we are going to get better goaltending in the playoffs. That's not a shot at Lu, it's just how much I like Schneider.
Like I said, there is a lot of questions that need to be answered before I can say that this team is every bit as good as the 2011 group, but I feel we've got as shot as any other team out there. THN who hates us seems to think we'll win.

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08-23-2012, 06:46 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by KidCanuck10 View Post
Agreed, they should unretire Smyle and Lindens numbers as well and hang up our only true HOF Bure beside Nazzy. When Gretzky was asked what would have brought him back for one more year he said there was only one thing that would have persuaded him but being the humble guy that he was he never brought it up with the Rangers management. That one thing was for him to be able to play with the greatest pure goal scorer he has ever seen (Pavel Bure). We do celebrate mediority cause it's all a Canuck fan knows, one thing a Canuck fan has never seen is a team with the presidents trophy, let alone 2, in a row.
Don't know where to start and end with the bolded statement. Linden brought a class to the Canucks that they had never had before and Smyl brough 110% to every shift. there is more to numbers in rafters than pts. Bure was a 100% ******* and had little class while with the canucks. Both Smyl and Lindon were heart, soul and class players--I take them over the cry baby Bure for getting a number retired

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08-23-2012, 06:47 PM
  #31
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We will not win anything that matters unless we improve our offence.

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08-23-2012, 06:52 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by serge2k View Post
It's not just that, when they were just an average team you could hope for a run. Devils did that this year.

But they can't even win when they are the best team in the league.

Can't beat chicago without game 7 OT despite being up 3-0.

They really just give no reason to think they are going to go on a run beyond the idea that they should. There is no real hope that they have more than they have shown. Can't win as an average team,can't win as a pretty good team, can't win as an elite team. So what else is there?

They should be capable of winning it. They have the roster, they have the experience.

The expectation at this point is that they win the cup. With that in mind people are going to be pessimistic because it is just much easier to see the problems.

If they were still 3rd place in the conference every year then it's easy to fool yourself into thinking they are better than they are.

With the amount of parity in the NHL today, it is still a huge accomplishment to get to game 7 of the final, regardless of what our critics will say. I would say winning 15 games in the playoffs was winning. The expectation shouldn't be to win the cup when you are the best team, because as we all know, so much has to go right. The expectation should be that the team played the best they could and up to their abilities. In 2010, I feel like they met that criteria. Last year, there was a disinterest we all sensed from around February and the team we all expected never translated on to the ice.

Only 1 of 30 teams win the cup every year. We've never been fortunate enough to be the minority of that stat, but we're not the only ones. So many teams have been stuck in mediocrity, let alone THINKING about a cup. We should feel fortunate as fans that we can watch our team make the playoffs every year and at least have a chance. I challenge you to make a list of every team and put yourself in their shoes to see if it really is that bad here...I think we're pretty lucky.

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08-23-2012, 07:02 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by NugentHopkinsfan View Post
We will not win anything that matters unless we improve our offence.
That improvement has to come from within. The twins and Kesler need to score more consistently and guys like Hansen, Higgins and Booth have to contribute. I like those players, I believe in them, I think they'll come through if given enough opportunities.

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08-23-2012, 07:05 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrcrazycanuck View Post
Don't know where to start and end with the bolded statement. Linden brought a class to the Canucks that they had never had before and Smyl brough 110% to every shift. there is more to numbers in rafters than pts. Bure was a 100% ******* and had little class while with the canucks. Both Smyl and Lindon were heart, soul and class players--I take them over the cry baby Bure for getting a number retired
What I don't get is he wants to unretire their numbers but keep Naslund's retired

With respect to the thread, the Canucks aren't legitimate contenders on paper anymore in my opinion. And the way we played last year proves my point.

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Old
08-23-2012, 07:44 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
What I don't get is he wants to unretire their numbers but keep Naslund's retired

With respect to the thread, the Canucks aren't legitimate contenders on paper anymore in my opinion. And the way we played last year proves my point.
oh. the president's trophy proves you wrong. please don't use that word

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Old
08-23-2012, 07:47 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Verviticus View Post
oh. the president's trophy proves you wrong. please don't use that word
there are some of us that are worried about the first round knock out this year and the near collapse last year in the first round. If we had lost to the hawks two years ago how would we have reacted to a first round loss this year~?

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08-23-2012, 07:47 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
What I don't get is he wants to unretire their numbers but keep Naslund's retired

With respect to the thread, the Canucks aren't legitimate contenders on paper anymore in my opinion. And the way we played last year proves my point.
7th in the conference

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08-23-2012, 07:54 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by mrcrazycanuck View Post
Don't know where to start and end with the bolded statement. Linden brought a class to the Canucks that they had never had before and Smyl brough 110% to every shift. there is more to numbers in rafters than pts. Bure was a 100% ******* and had little class while with the canucks. Both Smyl and Lindon were heart, soul and class players--I take them over the cry baby Bure for getting a number retired
And the celebration of medicrity continues........

There is more to just numbers but neither of those guys had good numbers and neither guy won a cup. What warrants their numbers being retired? They were captains and were good in the community??? If they did those things as well as be in the same class as a Bure or even a Naslund statistically, then ok. For me the numbers are the most important thing, it's not like Bure was a criminal. He came to a country and couldn't even speak the language and became the most exciting player this franchise has ever seen. Everytime he touched the puck, people were brought out of their seats to see what kind of magic he was about to do. A floater like Linden and a lunch box guy like Smyle are what we have hanging from the rafters as symbols of excellence? Reminds me of the partcipation ribbons they hand out in elementry schools.

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08-23-2012, 07:58 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by CanuckLuck View Post
With the amount of parity in the NHL today, it is still a huge accomplishment to get to game 7 of the final, regardless of what our critics will say. I would say winning 15 games in the playoffs was winning. The expectation shouldn't be to win the cup when you are the best team, because as we all know, so much has to go right. The expectation should be that the team played the best they could and up to their abilities. In 2010, I feel like they met that criteria. Last year, there was a disinterest we all sensed from around February and the team we all expected never translated on to the ice.

Only 1 of 30 teams win the cup every year. We've never been fortunate enough to be the minority of that stat, but we're not the only ones. So many teams have been stuck in mediocrity, let alone THINKING about a cup. We should feel fortunate as fans that we can watch our team make the playoffs every year and at least have a chance. I challenge you to make a list of every team and put yourself in their shoes to see if it really is that bad here...I think we're pretty lucky.
Thats my expectation.

If they fail to meet it then meh, blow it up and start over. They have a few more tries in them yet.

Getting game 7 is an accomplishment, but when you are up 2-0 and 3-2 and lose thats not such a good thing.


They have been a terrible team for most of their existence. No one has to imagine being a team that can't win, they are one. Yeah, making the playoffs most of the time (recently at least) is good. Did the extra 5 games this year really make a difference though? As good as they have been for the past decade they have been out of the 2nd round once.

Being a legitimate threat once in 40+ years is really not good. Maybe a couple more times if you count the early 90s and early 00s, but even then they were only a pretty good team.

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08-23-2012, 07:59 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
What I don't get is he wants to unretire their numbers but keep Naslund's retired

With respect to the thread, the Canucks aren't legitimate contenders on paper anymore in my opinion. And the way we played last year proves my point.
Pretty ridiculous statement considering paper is the only place they actually were contenders last year.

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08-23-2012, 08:00 PM
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
With respect to the thread, the Canucks aren't legitimate contenders on paper anymore in my opinion. And the way we played last year proves my point.
The lack of perspective most people here seem to have on last year is absolutely mindblowing.

We won the freaking President's Trophy. Best team in the NHL over 82 games. Despite a terrible start and despite significant injury issues.

We then ran into a ridiculously hot, ridiculously healthy team that peaked at exactly the right time and obliterated 3 other very good teams after us as well.

Fans here have become so spoiled it's unreal.

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08-23-2012, 08:03 PM
  #42
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The lack of perspective most people here seem to have on last year is absolutely mindblowing.

We won the freaking President's Trophy. Best team in the NHL over 82 games. Despite a terrible start and despite significant injury issues.

We then ran into a ridiculously hot, ridiculously healthy team that peaked at exactly the right time and obliterated 3 other very good teams after us as well.

Fans here have become so spoiled it's unreal.
and played like complete garbage against them. Really is no excuse, they stopped playing with any effort in January.

Fans aren't spoiled. Kings fans are spoiled.

Canuck fans are just expecting more. Not unreasonable. This is a veteran group, they should be right at their peak. They played terrible hockey for half a season and then got stomped on in the first round. They are the problem, not the fans.


and the kings beat 3 good teams? looked more like a pretty good blues team with some scoring issues, a very average phoenix team, and a 6th place devils team. I would love for the Canucks to end up with that matchup.

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08-23-2012, 08:05 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by MS View Post
The lack of perspective most people here seem to have on last year is absolutely mindblowing.

We won the freaking President's Trophy. Best team in the NHL over 82 games. Despite a terrible start and despite significant injury issues.

We then ran into a ridiculously hot, ridiculously healthy team that peaked at exactly the right time and obliterated 3 other very good teams after us as well.

Fans here have become so spoiled it's unreal.
It's true. I don't understand why people are so surprised that St.Louis and LA came out of nowhere, these teams have been building with youth for years and years. LA was hardly a typical 8 seed that we have seen in the past.

Anyways well said. I'm done on this topic lol

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08-23-2012, 08:07 PM
  #44
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It's true. I don't understand why people are so surprised that St.Louis and LA came out of nowhere, these teams have been building with youth for years and years. LA was hardly a typical 8 seed that we have seen in the past.

Anyways well said. I'm done on this topic lol
I think I have heard almost that exact phrase every year for the last 3.

LA got hot and had ridiculous luck on the injury front and with matchups. Good team, good enough to win obviously. Don't think they go 16-4 in pretty much any other situation.

Just wish they hadn't finished 8th, now the "it doesn't matter where you finish" argument will be paraded around louder than ever.

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08-23-2012, 08:23 PM
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I think I have heard almost that exact phrase every year for the last 3.

LA got hot and had ridiculous luck on the injury front and with matchups. Good team, good enough to win obviously. Don't think they go 16-4 in pretty much any other situation.

Just wish they hadn't finished 8th, now the "it doesn't matter where you finish" argument will be paraded around louder than ever.
Yeah LA sucks, they are terrible at hockey, your right. How can a team who went to the cup final the year before lose to a crappy 8th seed like the kings, I mean the kings, didn't they use to wear purple?

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08-23-2012, 08:58 PM
  #46
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Thats my expectation.

1)If they fail to meet it then meh, blow it up and start over. They have a few more tries in them yet.

2)Getting game 7 is an accomplishment, but when you are up 2-0 and 3-2 and lose thats not such a good thing.


3)They have been a terrible team for most of their existence. No one has to imagine being a team that can't win, they are one. Yeah, making the playoffs most of the time (recently at least) is good. Did the extra 5 games this year really make a difference though? As good as they have been for the past decade they have been out of the 2nd round once.

4)Being a legitimate threat once in 40+ years is really not good. Maybe a couple more times if you count the early 90s and early 00s, but even then they were only a pretty good team.

1) Okay

2) If Alex Burrows scores 40 goals, do you see it as an accomplishment? Of course. Over that same season if he had a 20 game stretch where he was cold, would you dwell on that? Or look at the big picture? Arguing semantics I guess-you seem to be a pessimist.

3)Again, I don't see the purpose on dwelling over it. If we look at the NHL over the last 5 years, the Canucks have arguably been one of the most successful teams in the league. I know what you'll say now.."we need a cup". I agree with that.

4)Our history has sucked big time. But we're in a new era now. An era that relatively we have been ridiculously spoiled. We should all enjoy the ride because when this team has fizzled out we may not see a better team over the next 40 years. That said, it's possible we see a success story like the Detroit Red Wings with Mike Gillis in charge.

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08-23-2012, 11:26 PM
  #47
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Yeah LA sucks, they are terrible at hockey, your right. How can a team who went to the cup final the year before lose to a crappy 8th seed like the kings, I mean the kings, didn't they use to wear purple?
I'm not saying the Kings aren't a very good team.

I'm just bitter that they went through the entire playoffs with zero defensive injuries and the Canucks had no one healthy by the end of their run.

Plus I really do think they just had ridiculously good luck. They probably could have won the cup anyway, but I doubt they go 16-4.

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08-23-2012, 11:29 PM
  #48
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1) Okay

2) If Alex Burrows scores 40 goals, do you see it as an accomplishment? Of course. Over that same season if he had a 20 game stretch where he was cold, would you dwell on that? Or look at the big picture? Arguing semantics I guess-you seem to be a pessimist.

3)Again, I don't see the purpose on dwelling over it. If we look at the NHL over the last 5 years, the Canucks have arguably been one of the most successful teams in the league. I know what you'll say now.."we need a cup". I agree with that.

4)Our history has sucked big time. But we're in a new era now. An era that relatively we have been ridiculously spoiled. We should all enjoy the ride because when this team has fizzled out we may not see a better team over the next 40 years. That said, it's possible we see a success story like the Detroit Red Wings with Mike Gillis in charge.
If he scored 40 then had zero goals in a run to the finals where they lose I would definitely be asking what happened.

They have been successful recently, and that's great. But unless they win a cup this will just be another team that didn't win. Shame, but it's true. Nice group to look back on perhaps, like the 94 team, but not really a big success.

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08-23-2012, 11:49 PM
  #49
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That improvement has to come from within. The twins and Kesler need to score more consistently and guys like Hansen, Higgins and Booth have to contribute. I like those players, I believe in them, I think they'll come through if given enough opportunities.
I believe they will get shut down just as they have been time after time.

The improvement has to come from outside and if it doesn't we won't win a cup.

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08-24-2012, 12:52 AM
  #50
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Let's talk about Chad Kroeger and Avril Lavigne's engagement. It'll improve this thread.

Chavril, anyone?

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