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Does a lockout mark the end of our time as contenders?

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Old
08-24-2012, 01:01 AM
  #51
Street Hawk
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Originally Posted by billvanseattle View Post
No offense, but how many impact players do you get in their first 5 years when draft position 10th Cody, 22nd Schroeder, 2010 1st selection 4th round, 29th Jensen and 26th Gaunce.

I really hope we see Schroeder with Jensen and Kassian as our 3rd line at some pioint this year.
I think that can only happen if the season starts on time. Cause, Jensen would go to Sweden to play if the lockout extends into December. Don't think he holds enough clout to warrant an out clause in his Swedish contract since he isn't guaranteed a spot on the Canuck's roster.
Nucks do need an infusion of youth. Basically swapped our 2008 1st rounder with Buffalo's 2009 1st rounder. Add to it that the team's last 1st rounder who is still on the team is Schneider from 2004. Bourdon, RIP from 2005. Grabner traded. White, enough said. I agree with most that I'm not that high on Schroeder. So, might have to wait until Jensen from 2011 to be the next 1st rounder of the Nucks to be on the team.... Yikes...

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08-24-2012, 01:53 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
The Sedins are in their early 30's, everyone needs to chill

Yzerman won his first cup at 32 and ended up with 3 of them. Have a little faith in these guys for crying out loud!
I don't think a lockout would end the Nucks chances as contenders. However, I think this is a pretty poor post. Firstly, early 30s is definitely on the older side for NHLers, especially forwards. And losing a year at that age is worse then losing it when you're in your early 20s. Secondly, listing Yzerman for your argument does nothing to help it. For every Yzerman there is 100 players who didn't do what he did at his age.

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08-24-2012, 02:56 AM
  #53
Derp Kassian
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Detroit got embarassed by NJ in 95 finals.. Lost to rival and eventual champs AVs in 96. Then won in 97! Canucks lost 11 SCF rather embarrassingly.. 12 lost to rival Kings who won cup .. 13 = cup! It's the Det model guys.

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08-24-2012, 03:08 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Derp Kassian View Post
Detroit got embarassed by NJ in 95 finals.. Lost to rival and eventual champs AVs in 96. Then won in 97! Canucks lost 11 SCF rather embarrassingly.. 12 lost to rival Kings who won cup .. 13 = cup! It's the Det model guys.
not if the season is cancelled!

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08-24-2012, 03:21 AM
  #55
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I'm not worried. The Canucks have exactly 534.63 days left as a contender. After that, in the middle of the game during the 535th night, Lapierre will take off his mask and reveal himself to be Mark Messier in disguise, sending this team into a very long rebuild.

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08-24-2012, 06:50 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
The Sedins are in their early 30's, everyone needs to chill

Yzerman won his first cup at 32 and ended up with 3 of them. Have a little faith in these guys for crying out loud!
Holy cow, I totally forgot that! Thanks man! I actually feel a lot better now.

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08-24-2012, 08:25 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by MeowLeafs View Post
I don't think a lockout would end the Nucks chances as contenders. However, I think this is a pretty poor post. Firstly, early 30s is definitely on the older side for NHLers, especially forwards. And losing a year at that age is worse then losing it when you're in your early 20s. Secondly, listing Yzerman for your argument does nothing to help it. For every Yzerman there is 100 players who didn't do what he did at his age.
I was commenting on people saying our time as contenders was already over. The Sedins have at least 4 or 5 good to great years left imo. It would still suck to lose a year though. I really hope that doesn't happen.

I didn't bring up Yzerman to further my argument, I was trying to create some optimism.

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08-24-2012, 09:57 AM
  #58
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I'll say this, its a terrible season to have a lock out in. I feel we're primed to go the distance this year. Although, consider me in the group that thinks a shortened season will benefit us. We seem to run out of gas faster than some other teams, not to mention get disinterested easier. A shortened season will certainly help avoid that. Plus, Schneider gets less starts in his first full season and Kesler gets more time to heal. There are some positives, as long as hockey starts by December.

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08-24-2012, 09:59 AM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
I was commenting on people saying our time as contenders was already over. The Sedins have at least 4 or 5 good to great years left imo. It would still suck to lose a year though. I really hope that doesn't happen.

I didn't bring up Yzerman to further my argument, I was trying to create some optimism.
Last year without Ehrhoff the Sedins came back to earth and finished at around a PPG pace. They also had long stretches of play where they were terrible, sandwiched between stretches where they put up a lot of points. I don't expect much more than what we saw from them last season, nor do I expect we will ever see them put up a Conn Smythe worthy performance in the playoffs.

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08-24-2012, 11:22 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Last year without Ehrhoff the Sedins came back to earth and finished at around a PPG pace. They also had long stretches of play where they were terrible, sandwiched between stretches where they put up a lot of points. I don't expect much more than what we saw from them last season, nor do I expect we will ever see them put up a Conn Smythe worthy performance in the playoffs.
SC hangover. The entire team were sluggish. Boston, Tampa, SJ and Vancouver struggled. (The Prez Trophy was due to poor division and great goalies).


If there is hockey this year, I expect much better play from the team.

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08-24-2012, 01:16 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Last year without Ehrhoff the Sedins came back to earth and finished at around a PPG pace. They also had long stretches of play where they were terrible, sandwiched between stretches where they put up a lot of points. I don't expect much more than what we saw from them last season, nor do I expect we will ever see them put up a Conn Smythe worthy performance in the playoffs.
Actually they wee fine until January when the entire team went to crap.

I don't buy the ehrhoff argument just because of that.

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08-24-2012, 01:20 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by serge2k View Post
Actually they wee fine until January when the entire team went to crap.

I don't buy the ehrhoff argument just because of that.
They were the ones carrying the team from October through to December, and then, as you said, they slowed down and there was nobody else to pick up the slack (other than the goaltenders).

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08-24-2012, 02:50 PM
  #63
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I'd be shocked if the Canucks didn't win it in the next year or two.

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08-24-2012, 03:58 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Last year without Ehrhoff the Sedins came back to earth and finished at around a PPG pace. They also had long stretches of play where they were terrible, sandwiched between stretches where they put up a lot of points. I don't expect much more than what we saw from them last season, nor do I expect we will ever see them put up a Conn Smythe worthy performance in the playoffs.
You've doubted the twins before... how did that work out for you?

The down year was to be expected... Hank still lead the West in scoring. He had 5 less points at even strength and 7 less on the PP. I don't see how that's a number they can't make up again with the league returning to enforcing penalties and an offseason to train.

I agree with you that the twins haven't been consistent enough in the playoffs and need to turn it up a notch. I saw signs of Hank doing that last year with an increased battle level and determination. How good are they that they haven't been firing on all cylinders and are still putting up PPG in the playoffs?

I believe in the Sedins, mostly because any time they are doubted they prove people wrong. I look forward to them proving you wrong... again.

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08-24-2012, 04:00 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by serge2k View Post
Actually they wee fine until January when the entire team went to crap.

I don't buy the ehrhoff argument just because of that.
Ehrhoff's contribution has been greatly exaggerated. The guy had 21 ESP's and made a killing on the PP. Those PP opportunities just weren't there for the team after Christmas, he wouldn't have helped.

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08-24-2012, 04:53 PM
  #66
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Key to this arguement is goaltending,IMO. If Luongo is indeed traded away for prospects or picks then I believe the team will slip in the standings, but still compete in the playoffs. Slipping down, away from the President's trophies will not hurt anything, really. I think some people may question the validity of the NHL playoffs anyway, with the wildly varying rule book ruining the competition. It's like ending the formula one season with an off-road race!

Laughable league behaviour aside, the Canucks can claim to be the best team in hockey during the times that rules are enforced. That is very difficult to maintain. Edler and Garrison may not work. That would be enough to affect the standings if no repair is made. The Canucks are very weak up the middle right now. One center has one hip and another has one eye. If Daniel can be targeted for assault, so can Henrik. Then what? That might affect the standings, too.

The Canucks are certain to be a competitive team, but they are fragile right now. Of course no rosters are set as yet, or even fully assembled! The core isn't too old, but they do have high miles on them. This is what has happened to Luongo. Is it a trend?

I was aghast when they renewed Vignault for three years. Hopefully, the last two years taught everybody what it takes to win a cup. I want to see Vignault on the ice screaming at the refs and I want to hear that Gillis stormed the NHL offices and physically lifted Bettman off the ground while screaming in his face. Too much of a Canadian approach has been taken, so far.

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Old
08-24-2012, 05:14 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Derp Kassian View Post
Detroit got embarassed by NJ in 95 finals.. Lost to rival and eventual champs AVs in 96. Then won in 97! Canucks lost 11 SCF rather embarrassingly.. 12 lost to rival Kings who won cup .. 13 = cup! It's the Det model guys.


Remember the old "every 12 years" rule some Canuck fans had (82, 94) people thought we'd make it in 06

Remember the "Canadian team that hosts the olympics wins the cup the next year"


If you look hard enough for some pattern it will be there....

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Old
08-24-2012, 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Last year without Ehrhoff the Sedins came back to earth and finished at around a PPG pace. They also had long stretches of play where they were terrible, sandwiched between stretches where they put up a lot of points. I don't expect much more than what we saw from them last season, nor do I expect we will ever see them put up a Conn Smythe worthy performance in the playoffs.
Well aren't you just a ray of sun shine whenever it comes to the Sedins.

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08-24-2012, 11:06 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Derp Kassian View Post
Detroit got embarassed by NJ in 95 finals.. Lost to rival and eventual champs AVs in 96. Then won in 97! Canucks lost 11 SCF rather embarrassingly.. 12 lost to rival Kings who won cup .. 13 = cup! It's the Det model guys.
Absolutely! And there is another big similarity as well. THIS GOAL:



That is considered one of (if not THE) greatest goals in Detroit has scored in the modern era. It was a game 7 overtime goal, and it was in an earlier round. They would not win the cup that year, but they would go on to win it not long after. It reminds me so much of what Burrows did to Chicago -- also considered one of (if not THE) greatest Canuck goal. Let's hope we have the same future to look forward to.

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08-24-2012, 11:41 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Last year without Ehrhoff the Sedins came back to earth and finished at around a PPG pace. They also had long stretches of play where they were terrible, sandwiched between stretches where they put up a lot of points. I don't expect much more than what we saw from them last season, nor do I expect we will ever see them put up a Conn Smythe worthy performance in the playoffs.
ONLY A POINT PER GAME? That is absolutely terrible!!! They obviously don't deserve to be playing in the NHL! Put the bums on waivers!

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Old
08-25-2012, 01:20 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Last year without Ehrhoff the Sedins came back to earth and finished at around a PPG pace. They also had long stretches of play where they were terrible, sandwiched between stretches where they put up a lot of points. I don't expect much more than what we saw from them last season, nor do I expect we will ever see them put up a Conn Smythe worthy performance in the playoffs.
So if the Sedins ever actually did put up Conn Smythe numbers and Luongo gets traded, will you actually be happy? Seriously.

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08-25-2012, 02:15 AM
  #72
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Key to this arguement is goaltending,IMO. If Luongo is indeed traded away for prospects or picks then I believe the team will slip in the standings, but still compete in the playoffs. Slipping down, away from the President's trophies will not hurt anything, really. I think some people may question the validity of the NHL playoffs anyway, with the wildly varying rule book ruining the competition. It's like ending the formula one season with an off-road race!

Laughable league behaviour aside, the Canucks can claim to be the best team in hockey during the times that rules are enforced. That is very difficult to maintain. Edler and Garrison may not work. That would be enough to affect the standings if no repair is made. The Canucks are very weak up the middle right now. One center has one hip and another has one eye. If Daniel can be targeted for assault, so can Henrik. Then what? That might affect the standings, too.

The Canucks are certain to be a competitive team, but they are fragile right now. Of course no rosters are set as yet, or even fully assembled! The core isn't too old, but they do have high miles on them. This is what has happened to Luongo. Is it a trend?

I was aghast when they renewed Vignault for three years. Hopefully, the last two years taught everybody what it takes to win a cup. I want to see Vignault on the ice screaming at the refs and I want to hear that Gillis stormed the NHL offices and physically lifted Bettman off the ground while screaming in his face. Too much of a Canadian approach has been taken, so far.
great analogy!!

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Old
08-25-2012, 03:55 PM
  #73
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Probaly yes, Sedins are getting older and are not as dominate as they were in prior years, this coupled with a serious lack of prospects to keep up ( kassian is a 3rd line grinder at best and showed it last year).

Also teams like the wild, oilers, avs are getting better every year.

Nucks were very, very good in the last 3 years, however I think they're probaly 3- 4 years from being an ageing team with no prospects and a team that places around 8-10 every year

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08-25-2012, 05:19 PM
  #74
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Probaly yes, Sedins are getting older and are not as dominate as they were in prior years, this coupled with a serious lack of prospects to keep up ( kassian is a 3rd line grinder at best and showed it last year).

Also teams like the wild, oilers, avs are getting better every year.

Nucks were very, very good in the last 3 years, however I think they're probaly 3- 4 years from being an ageing team with no prospects and a team that places around 8-10 every year
Sedins were both at the top of Western Conference scoring last year, and we don't need prospects when we're going for a cup.. The pool isn't even that bad just no blue chippers. And who's to say in 3-4 years they won't have a great group of prospects?

Rest of the NW hasn't shown improvement yet so well cross that bridge when we get there. I'll take 3-4 years of contention before blowing it up.

Btw Oilers fans should really walk a thin line on our boards since your mods ban with the quickness.

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08-25-2012, 05:55 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by Derp Kassian View Post
Sedins were both at the top of Western Conference scoring last year, and we don't need prospects when we're going for a cup.. The pool isn't even that bad just no blue chippers. And who's to say in 3-4 years they won't have a great group of prospects?

Rest of the NW hasn't shown improvement yet so well cross that bridge when we get there. I'll take 3-4 years of contention before blowing it up.

Btw Oilers fans should really walk a thin line on our boards since your mods ban with the quickness.
Didnt come to bash, came to be realistic, dominate teams get older and slow down, Sedins are very good but can they carry the team in the playoffs in 2-3-4 years.

I honestly had them winning this year.

But its common sense that the league is cyclical and as teams improve other teams have to slow down. Take for example the canucks, they werent that good in the lates 1990's and into the 2000's, but as team slowed down and they improved they took over the NHL

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