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Linden feels the NHLPA was INSULTED,feels the season is over

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01-21-2005, 12:12 PM
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RangerBoy
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Linden feels the NHLPA was INSULTED,feels the season is over

After getting Linden's message, Buffalo Sabres union representaive Jay McKee told WGR Sports Radio 550 on Friday that there is no reason for optimism.

"If anything, I hate to be the bearer of bad news but I think things have gotten worse," said McKee. "Trevor came out of the meetings (Thursday) pretty sour. He feels the PA was insulted in a few ways."

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?id=112108

NHL Players’ Association president Trevor Linden is telling players to be prepared for the lockout to continue deep into next season, The Hockey News has learned.

In an audio message posted on the NHLPA’s internal website last night, Linden said he sees no basis for further meetings with the league. The league is insisting the only solution to the lockout is with a hard individual team salary cap and is not prepared to compromise in any way, Linden said.

http://www.thn.com/en/headlines/deta...t=954945254360

These guys are funny :lol

I wish someone would insult me with an average salary of $1.3 million to play in the NHL

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01-21-2005, 12:13 PM
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NHL still not willing to compromise. Bye season.

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01-21-2005, 12:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy
After getting Linden's message, Buffalo Sabres union representaive Jay McKee told WGR Sports Radio 550 on Friday that there is no reason for optimism.

"If anything, I hate to be the bearer of bad news but I think things have gotten worse," said McKee. "Trevor came out of the meetings (Thursday) pretty sour. He feels the PA was insulted in a few ways."

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?id=112108

NHL Players’ Association president Trevor Linden is telling players to be prepared for the lockout to continue deep into next season, The Hockey News has learned.

In an audio message posted on the NHLPA’s internal website last night, Linden said he sees no basis for further meetings with the league. The league is insisting the only solution to the lockout is with a hard individual team salary cap and is not prepared to compromise in any way, Linden said.

http://www.thn.com/en/headlines/deta...t=954945254360

These guys are funny :lol

I wish someone would insult me with an average salary of $1.3 million to play in the NHL
He wasn't talking about being insulted salary wise.


Maybe the idiotic hard line approach to negotiating is what he's talking about.

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01-21-2005, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by FLYLine4LIFE
NHL still not willing to compromise. Bye season.
NHLPA still not willing to compromise, don't forget that too.

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01-21-2005, 12:19 PM
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Look at the post in the Edmonton Oilers forum. Someone posted something about a story on in Ottawa and Red Deer about one of the Alberta teams.

 
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01-21-2005, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Hockey_Nut99
Look at the post in the Edmonton Oilers forum. Someone posted something about a story on in Ottawa and Red Deer about one of the Alberta teams.

http://www.hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=125025

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01-21-2005, 12:23 PM
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Too bad Bryan Hayward has no power in all this

"We need 30 viable markets to have a legitimate major sport," Hayward said. "Players sometimes say, well, there's too many teams. I find that incredible. A player should want the maximum number of jobs out there. The average NHL career is eight years. A playerdoesn't want to spend two of them in Europe for half of his NHL salary. Off the record, some of them tell you they know a cap is necessary.

"The players are the ones who should tell Bob Goodenow to make a deal this week. He works for them."

"The rollback," Hayward said, "only applied to players who had contracts at the time. I think the Ducks have about eight guys under contract. There are a ton of free agents out there and they weren't involved in it.

"A luxury tax won't work, because the game will still be affected by the bad decisions of some teams. I don't think the union offered a long-term solution. You need a cap. I like the fact the league has proposed a salary floor, too. And the cap should adjust and go up when revenues go up. But the players have to know that the longer we go without an agreement, the money will go down."

http://www.ocregister.com/ocr/2005/0...cle_380725.php

It seems the former NHL players such Hayward,John Davidson,Keith Jones and Phil Esposito to name a few feel the players are wrong but the current players are a bunch of punk ass spoiled *****es who want to be partners with the owners but do not want salaries linked to revenue and they are upset that the NHL attorney Bob Batterman told the PA yesterday "the players are the employee".They want a partnership without taking any financial risk.Nice deal if can get it

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01-21-2005, 12:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregStack
He wasn't talking about being insulted salary wise.


Maybe the idiotic hard line approach to negotiating is what he's talking about.
They are mad at Bob Batterman for telling them "the players are the employee" and should not be telling the owners how to run their business.Glenn Healey was crying about that this morning on the FAN590

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01-21-2005, 12:27 PM
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How soon before Tahir Dumi attacks Hayward?

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01-21-2005, 12:28 PM
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It's always NHL won't negotiate or NHLPA won't negotiate. Both sides will negotiate considerably on the more minor points of a CBA. Both sides are willing to negotiate the parameters of THEIR framework (luxury tax or linkage).

NEITHER side is willing to negotiate the other camps framework because they are a fundamental difference in system. In the end it's the side in the drivers seat that gets to dicate the system. In this case it is the owners no matter if you believe Forbes, Levitt or someone else.

Too me the union sound bites sound a bit desparate today. They sound like they are trying to scare the NHL owners. I don't think it's going to work. In actuality the desperation on the part of the union seems to reflect that Hotchkiss and company scared the NHLPA be confirming the seriousness of their resolve.

So the players can pi$$ away the season if they like. They can go play in Europe for no money in system that have payrolls at a fraction of what the owners were offering. Maybe then it will dawn on them they should have perhaps settled.

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01-21-2005, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy
They are mad at Bob Batterman for telling them "the players are the employee" and should not be telling the owners how to run their business.Glenn Healey was crying about that this morning on the FAN590
The players shouldn't tell the owners how to run their business, yes that's true. But then again, why should the players help the idiot owners run their business?

If they're in a business, treat it like one. All businesses have rivals, and all must compete (at top dollar) for employees, they have to run their business under budgets, but when they run out of money, or consistently lose money, the standard approach is to close show, and either move somewhere more profitable, or quit altogether.

But the NHL can't do that, apparently you have to be guaranteed a profit...how many other businesses are guaranteed to earn money year in and year out?

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01-21-2005, 12:31 PM
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You know what they can go to hell for what I care. They don't give a rat's ass about us or the game greedy buch of *******. They can take their "philisophical differences" and shove it up their ass. I am sick of this ****. They're pathetic. Their so busy being pig headed that they don't even see that their killing the league.

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01-21-2005, 12:32 PM
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Heres to hoping the WHA arrives sooner than later.. and actually starts EXISTING.

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01-21-2005, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by OTTSENS
You know what they can go to hell for what I care. They don't give a rat's ass about us or the game greedy buch of *******. They can take their "philisophical differences" and shove it up their ass. I am sick of this ****. They're pathetic. Their so busy being pig headed that they don't even see that their killing the league.
Who? The players, the owners, or both?

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01-21-2005, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tantalum
It's always NHL won't negotiate or NHLPA won't negotiate. Both sides will negotiate considerably on the more minor points of a CBA. Both sides are willing to negotiate the parameters of THEIR framework (luxury tax or linkage).

NEITHER side is willing to negotiate the other camps framework because they are a fundamental difference in system. In the end it's the side in the drivers seat that gets to dicate the system. In this case it is the owners no matter if you believe Forbes, Levitt or someone else.

Too me the union sound bites sound a bit desparate today. They sound like they are trying to scare the NHL owners. I don't think it's going to work. In actuality the desperation on the part of the union seems to reflect that Hotchkiss and company scared the NHLPA be confirming the seriousness of their resolve.

So the players can pi$$ away the season if they like. They can go play in Europe for no money in system that have payrolls at a fraction of what the owners were offering. Maybe then it will dawn on them they should have perhaps settled.
Well said, I think you hit the nail on the head

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01-21-2005, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregStack
The players shouldn't tell the owners how to run their business, yes that's true. But then again, why should the players help the idiot owners run their business?

If they're in a business, treat it like one. All businesses have rivals, and all must compete (at top dollar) for employees, they have to run their business under budgets, but when they run out of money, or consistently lose money, the standard approach is to close show, and either move somewhere more profitable, or quit altogether.

But the NHL can't do that, apparently you have to be guaranteed a profit...how many other businesses are guaranteed to earn money year in and year out?
The players are willing to go play in Europe for almost nothing, but their are not willing to play in the NHL with a cap system and make 1.3 millions on average. Man they should give their collective heads a shake!!!!!

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01-21-2005, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by GregStack
Who? The players, the owners, or both?
Both

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01-21-2005, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by OTTSENS
The players are willing to go play in Europe for almost nothing, but their are not willing to play in the NHL with a cap system and make 1.3 millions on average. Man they should give their collective heads a shake!!!!!
Kovalchuck is making $3,000,000 in Russia...

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01-21-2005, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregStack
The players shouldn't tell the owners how to run their business, yes that's true. But then again, why should the players help the idiot owners run their business?

If they're in a business, treat it like one. All businesses have rivals, and all must compete (at top dollar) for employees, they have to run their business under budgets, but when they run out of money, or consistently lose money, the standard approach is to close show, and either move somewhere more profitable, or quit altogether.

But the NHL can't do that, apparently you have to be guaranteed a profit...how many other businesses are guaranteed to earn money year in and year out?
If what you are saying is true, then the NHLPA can start treating its Union like a proper union. As in players saying they are willing to lose 4-6 teams, as it will make the whole NHL healthier. Although that is the truth, that is essentially throwing the little guys off the bus, to continue to spread the wealth amongst the more talented players. Now that is not what a union does, and anyone in it can testify to that.

Secondly, considering you are a Toronto fan I can see why it is easy for you to say that the competition should be there, and that is fine with me. But if this continues to happen the league will fold, except for maybe the top 8-10 teams. Cause as long as the little teams continue to be farm teams for the bigger clubs, there is no hope for the smaller markets. Here in Edmonton we live and die hockey as much as you do in Toronto, however we don't have the wealth that your team is blessed with. We have to throw things such as the Heritage Classic to actually show a slight profit, and we have to try and continue to develop players instead of being able to purchase the holes in our lineup. Sure our GM has screwed up a few times, but the problem is that when he screws up our season goes in the tank. When larger teams stars go down, they can look at bringing in new players, and here in Edmonton we can't, cause we actually stick to our budget. Maybe if we spent an extra 4 million we might have made the playoffs, and received that revenue back, but then again we might not have and lost that 4 million.

So as long as the bigger clubs are the ones that push the salaries up, and our owners are forced to compare our players salaries to the ones being paid by the bigger clubs, cities like Edmonton and Calgary will go in the tank. Maybe that pleases some fans out east, but if that is so, then that just shows how greedy people can be.

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01-21-2005, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tantalum
It's always NHL won't negotiate or NHLPA won't negotiate. Both sides will negotiate considerably on the more minor points of a CBA. Both sides are willing to negotiate the parameters of THEIR framework (luxury tax or linkage).

NEITHER side is willing to negotiate the other camps framework because they are a fundamental difference in system. In the end it's the side in the drivers seat that gets to dicate the system. In this case it is the owners no matter if you believe Forbes, Levitt or someone else.

Too me the union sound bites sound a bit desparate today. They sound like they are trying to scare the NHL owners. I don't think it's going to work. In actuality the desperation on the part of the union seems to reflect that Hotchkiss and company scared the NHLPA be confirming the seriousness of their resolve.

So the players can pi$$ away the season if they like. They can go play in Europe for no money in system that have payrolls at a fraction of what the owners were offering. Maybe then it will dawn on them they should have perhaps settled.
Good post, I agree with everything you said, players still think the owners are bluffing, good luck Trevor Linden...it'll be better for you to accept that fact now, than 1 year or 2 from now, let's see if your not dumb enough to go down that road

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01-21-2005, 12:48 PM
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Compromise?

Neither side has ever been in a negotiation during this entire lockout.

Hardline approaches = NO NHL

Does anyone know what the PA is hellbent on a CBA without a hard salary cap?

If this does go into the next season (05-06) and actually cancels the entire season because neither side is willing to make a compromise, then hockey might not ever return.

As I see it now the NHL and the NHLPA have until this years draft to reach a deal.

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01-21-2005, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy
They are mad at Bob Batterman for telling them "the players are the employee" and should not be telling the owners how to run their business.Glenn Healey was crying about that this morning on the FAN590
I think hearing it hurt Linden's feelings... But isn't this what the players want - to simply be employees (not partners)? Don't the players simply want to be paid and not worry about the business-side of things (i.e. like an employee)?

Wasn't this the basic argument for maintaining the current system? We simply ask that you owners pay us what the market determines (like an employee) - we don't want to be involved or tied to your business operations (like a partner)...

I'd be happy if I was the NHLPA and I heard this from the NHL... not upset...

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01-21-2005, 12:50 PM
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As far as the owners concern they don't want to negociate the only thing they want is to break they union. This has nothing to do with the game of hockey it has everything to do with control. The owners want to have full control of the league. The owners want to make Goodenow crawl and say I gave up you win. For the past 10 years Goodenow was the man in control and now the owners want that control back. It's a power strugle period.

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01-21-2005, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by GregStack
Kovalchuck is making $3,000,000 in Russia...
1 out of 350 players that's good

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01-21-2005, 12:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregStack
Kovalchuck is making $3,000,000 in Russia...
Yeah, and you can reduce that number to less than 100,000-200,000 for basically everyone else, except guys like Jagr, Thornton or Nash.

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