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Old
08-29-2012, 08:03 PM
  #101
Gallatin
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Have to agree that NYI or NJD should be moved in the next 5 years. That market is perfect for two teams, but underperformes with 3.

I can't think of many northern markets in trouble if we end up with a decent CBA. At first Buffalo comes to mind, but that community is really passionate about their team. Columbus is in trouble if they can't put a quality product on the ice again this decade.

It's really a shame that a top ten market like Atlanta can't find good management/ownership. A winning team would have made it there, and been a powerhouse in 30 years.


Last edited by Gallatin: 08-29-2012 at 10:37 PM.
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08-29-2012, 09:53 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Candyman View Post
They aren't at all contradicting. the Northeast is overcrowded with teams. New York alone has 3 teams. I'd like to see some of the NE teams moved and spread out more. As far as Omaha vs Kansas City I was just making an example, not necessarily a definite statement Kansas City is just as fine to me.
There are a lot of people in the north east.

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08-29-2012, 11:19 PM
  #103
KaylaJ
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Originally Posted by Gallatin View Post

It's really a shame that a top ten market like Atlanta can't find good management/ownership. A winning team would have made it there, and been a powerhouse in 30 years.
It makes you wonder what could have been without the Heatley crash.

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08-30-2012, 01:42 AM
  #104
Candyman
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
There are a lot of people in the north east.
Sure, there's a lot of people down south too. Texas has the #2 population in states with 25M+ people and has only one team in dallas. Why not Houston, San Antonio, Austin? etc

By comparison NY is #3 with 19M+ and has 3 teams! (4 if you count NJ as part of the NY teams)

I'd like to see 1 team for NYC and maybe keep Buffalo (Though really I'd like to move them south too). The other NYC team and NJ should move. Plenty of other states/cities deserve a hockey team. Another city I thought of is Salt Lake, UT. They hosted the winter games a few years ago so the facilities should be there, it's got a large enough population and yet still promotes expansion.

Again though I think all of these moves and such should be done in due time. Not all at one time in one year.

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08-30-2012, 01:57 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Candyman View Post
Sure, there's a lot of people down south too. Texas has the #2 population in states with 25M+ people and has only one team in dallas. Why not Houston, San Antonio, Austin? etc .
All 3 of those have an AHL team and Houston is often brought up as another market the NHL could move to. Plus while hockey has grown by leaps and bounds since the Stars moved from MN, more teams would be risky considering hockey is still behind football and then basketball.

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08-30-2012, 02:03 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by KaylaJ View Post
It makes you wonder what could have been without the Heatley crash.
Well, considering they got Hossa back in exchange, it was not a bad deal for Atlanta at the time. I guess the real question is would he have played with heart, like he loved the game, were it not for Snyder's death and the following conviction Heatley received. Personally - I think he always was and always will be a self-centered unaccountable dooshbag.

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08-30-2012, 02:18 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Gallatin View Post
Well, considering they got Hossa back in exchange, it was not a bad deal for Atlanta at the time. I guess the real question is would he have played with heart, like he loved the game, were it not for Snyder's death and the following conviction Heatley received. Personally - I think he always was and always will be a self-centered unaccountable dooshbag.
Problem with getting Hossa in return is I don't think he was ever happy. He had signed a contract with Ottawa just days before being traded and never seemed thrilled with the decision, which is probably why he could never agree with an extension later on. Had the crash not happened, maybe Heatley is happy and doesn't go into some sort of mental funk and want to escape.

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08-30-2012, 04:01 AM
  #108
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aren't tickets dirt cheap in most of the struggling markets? I know they were selling tickets at the gates of Columbus for like 10 or 15 bucks.
I was once in Miami at Sawgrass Mills Mall, which is right next to the Arena. I wanted to go the game against the Isles that night (yeah well, didn't go to Miami because of hockey, so that was the game that was on) with my girlfriend and I told her that we should go to the gate 15 minutes before the game because then they were probably cheaper. Anyway, we walked into the Mall at 10 am (it was a 7.30 pg game) and a guy came up to us:

Guy: "Heeeey guys, you wanna go to the Panthers game tonight?" And gave me two tickets to look at

The price on the ticket said $44.00 each and I tough maybe in the evening they were cheaper so I said: "Well, yeah, we're just gonna...."

Guy cuts me off: "Enjoy the game" and walks aways to catch a group of people entering the mall.

They were handing out free tickets about 10 hours before the game even started. Granted, it was against the Isles, I was still surprised.

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08-30-2012, 04:10 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by KaylaJ View Post
It makes you wonder what could have been without the Heatley crash.
Very true. Without that, maybe there was a chance to hold on to both Heatley and Kovalchuk and then you have a very good core.

Same with Columbus. They hade SO MANY top 10 and even top 5 picks and failed again and againg and again to draft a decent player and put together a solid team.


Last edited by Milliardo: 08-30-2012 at 08:18 AM.
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08-30-2012, 07:11 AM
  #110
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To be honest I don't know much about the other sports except, as a league, the NHL is behind them. They get to do "trial runs" in areas simply because they can afford to. The NHL has almost no room for error.

If the NHL is going to take risks at least let them be calculated risks. Atlanta gets a team twice and the NHL never explores Seatle or Milwaukee?
Seattle actually came close to getting an NHL team in the 1970s and the 1990s.

Right now, Chris Hansen (the non-sexual predator predator) is buying up land in hope of getting an NBA and an NHL team. Likely targets are New Orleans and Phoenix, respectively.

http://www.seattlepi.com/sports/arti...#photo-3071486

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08-30-2012, 10:21 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Candyman View Post
Sure, there's a lot of people down south too. Texas has the #2 population in states with 25M+ people and has only one team in dallas. Why not Houston, San Antonio, Austin? etc

By comparison NY is #3 with 19M+ and has 3 teams! (4 if you count NJ as part of the NY teams)

I'd like to see 1 team for NYC and maybe keep Buffalo (Though really I'd like to move them south too). The other NYC team and NJ should move. Plenty of other states/cities deserve a hockey team. Another city I thought of is Salt Lake, UT. They hosted the winter games a few years ago so the facilities should be there, it's got a large enough population and yet still promotes expansion.

Again though I think all of these moves and such should be done in due time. Not all at one time in one year.
But enough people in the north east are actually interested in hockey yet there is still a lot of room to grow. I don't see why teams in NYC have any influence on what should happen to Buffalo. I don't care if its the same state, they are just as far from NYC as we are. Jersey, Boston, Washington and Philly are all considerably closer to the NYC market than Buffalo is.

And I'm sorry, but I have a hard time taking someone seriously when they want to move Buffalo. That might be the best hockey fan base in the US. Moving two of three teams out of NYC is also a little silly considering how big the city is. More people live in NYC than Utah and Nebraska combined. I could see moving one of Jersey or NYI, but not both. And definitely not Buffalo.

when you are looking at populations, are you looking beyond the city itself? Salt Lake City itself is ok, but Utah in general is just not very populated. Same with Omaha and Nebraska, except that one's worse. Kansas City would be ok, but does Missouri really need two teams? It's got half the population of any other state with two teams.

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08-30-2012, 03:37 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
But enough people in the north east are actually interested in hockey yet there is still a lot of room to grow. I don't see why teams in NYC have any influence on what should happen to Buffalo. I don't care if its the same state, they are just as far from NYC as we are. Jersey, Boston, Washington and Philly are all considerably closer to the NYC market than Buffalo is.

And I'm sorry, but I have a hard time taking someone seriously when they want to move Buffalo. That might be the best hockey fan base in the US. Moving two of three teams out of NYC is also a little silly considering how big the city is. More people live in NYC than Utah and Nebraska combined. I could see moving one of Jersey or NYI, but not both. And definitely not Buffalo.

when you are looking at populations, are you looking beyond the city itself? Salt Lake City itself is ok, but Utah in general is just not very populated. Same with Omaha and Nebraska, except that one's worse. Kansas City would be ok, but does Missouri really need two teams? It's got half the population of any other state with two teams.
Do you want people currently interested in hockey or new people to come to the sport? I'm not saying run the NE dry of teams. but having 7/30 teams in the states of PA/NJ North isn't a fair number to the rest of the country/Canada. Moving 2-3 teams out of the NE and into other parts of the country still leaves 4-5 teams there.

Kansas City.... Omaha.... Topeka I don't really care. The details can be worked out, but seeing a large gap from St. Louis to Denver going west is a lot of empty space the league could fill with a team in that area.

Is Salt Lake any different than Phoenix as far as surrounding community? they're both in the middle of a desert. I think Salt Lake would be more favorable though because of the Winter games, and it's farther north.

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08-30-2012, 04:10 PM
  #113
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Do you want people currently interested in hockey or new people to come to the sport? I'm not saying run the NE dry of teams. but having 7/30 teams in the states of PA/NJ North isn't a fair number to the rest of the country/Canada. Moving 2-3 teams out of the NE and into other parts of the country still leaves 4-5 teams there.

Kansas City.... Omaha.... Topeka I don't really care. The details can be worked out, but seeing a large gap from St. Louis to Denver going west is a lot of empty space the league could fill with a team in that area.

Is Salt Lake any different than Phoenix as far as surrounding community? they're both in the middle of a desert. I think Salt Lake would be more favorable though because of the Winter games, and it's farther north.
Moving teams out of the Northeast to just fill in the middle of the country in markets that aren't even that big is absurd. Topeka and Omaha would be horrible markets for the NHL. If you don't see the NBA, MLB, or NFL moving there then you have know there's a damn good reason why the NHL shouldn't go there. I am all for growing the game, but it's a business too and there really isn't any upside to moving a NYC team to Omaha freakin Nebraska.

Also, give me teams that should be moved to these markets? You said Buffalo which is absurd. You might as well say Pittsburgh only that is less of a stretch. Buffalo has one of the most dedicated fan bases in the US. I agree we should look to move one of NYI or NJ but not both. If I had to move a team, I'd send one of NYI or Devils to Seattle. Of course that doesn't help the South. I'd also give Kansas City or even Las Vegas a team before Omaha, Topeka, whatever else small city in the middle of corn fields.

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08-30-2012, 04:15 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Candyman View Post
Do you want people currently interested in hockey or new people to come to the sport? I'm not saying run the NE dry of teams. but having 7/30 teams in the states of PA/NJ North isn't a fair number to the rest of the country/Canada. Moving 2-3 teams out of the NE and into other parts of the country still leaves 4-5 teams there.

Kansas City.... Omaha.... Topeka I don't really care. The details can be worked out, but seeing a large gap from St. Louis to Denver going west is a lot of empty space the league could fill with a team in that area.

Is Salt Lake any different than Phoenix as far as surrounding community? they're both in the middle of a desert. I think Salt Lake would be more favorable though because of the Winter games, and it's farther north.
I don't want to sound like a dick, but as far as population goes there is a large gap in this country from St. Louis to Denver. And then another from Denver to California. That is why there is a large gap in that region in every pro sports league in the country.


Darker means more people.


If someone moves I'd rather see them go to Seattle or Milwaukee than to Salt Lake City or Omaha. I hope nobody else goes to Canada. I understand the immediate draw, but the more teams go there the more the league is just giving in and admitting they are OK with being a second tier league forever.

And honestly, there is also a lot of room for adding fans in the north east. Just look at the hockey numbers compared to the football or basketball numbers for pretty much any north east market and you'll see a lot of room for improvement on the hockey side.


Last edited by Ogrezilla: 08-30-2012 at 04:22 PM.
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Old
08-30-2012, 05:55 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
I don't want to sound like a dick, but as far as population goes there is a large gap in this country from St. Louis to Denver. And then another from Denver to California. That is why there is a large gap in that region in every pro sports league in the country.


Darker means more people.


If someone moves I'd rather see them go to Seattle or Milwaukee than to Salt Lake City or Omaha. I hope nobody else goes to Canada. I understand the immediate draw, but the more teams go there the more the league is just giving in and admitting they are OK with being a second tier league forever.

And honestly, there is also a lot of room for adding fans in the north east. Just look at the hockey numbers compared to the football or basketball numbers for pretty much any north east market and you'll see a lot of room for improvement on the hockey side.
Providing data doesn't make you a dick. It means you have an educated opinion. no worries i'm only judging you because I still can't figure out your avatar.

I would endorse Milwaukee, not so sure about Seattle just because Vancouver is so close to it. I do think you're grasping for straws though if you think hockey is ever going to be as popular as football or basketball in the US... Simply put I just don't think it will ever happen regardless of what the NHL does.

Also Kansas City and St. Louis both have teams in the NFL and the MLB so closing the gap from St. Louis to Denver can and should be done imo.

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08-30-2012, 06:06 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Candyman View Post
Providing data doesn't make you a dick. It means you have an educated opinion. no worries i'm only judging you because I still can't figure out your avatar.

I would endorse Milwaukee, not so sure about Seattle just because Vancouver is so close to it. I do think you're grasping for straws though if you think hockey is ever going to be as popular as football or basketball in the US... Simply put I just don't think it will ever happen regardless of what the NHL does.

Also Kansas City and St. Louis both have teams in the NFL and the MLB so closing the gap from St. Louis to Denver can and should be done imo.
my point about comparing hockey and football nubers was just that there are a lot of people in the north east who aren't hockey fans yet.

And I'd agree Kansas City is probably one of the next best places to put a team after Milwaukee or Seattle. I just don't think its worth taking teams out of the north east to do it. And that's a fair point about Vancouver being close to Seattle. I have no idea what that means as far as fans goes though, do you? Do they get Vancouver games on local TV or anything? If Vancouver is already marketed as the stand-in home team for people in that whole region then I guess I might change my mind there. But somehow I doubt that's the case.

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08-30-2012, 08:21 PM
  #117
Mr. T
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
my point about comparing hockey and football nubers was just that there are a lot of people in the north east who aren't hockey fans yet.

And I'd agree Kansas City is probably one of the next best places to put a team after Milwaukee or Seattle. I just don't think its worth taking teams out of the north east to do it. And that's a fair point about Vancouver being close to Seattle. I have no idea what that means as far as fans goes though, do you? Do they get Vancouver games on local TV or anything? If Vancouver is already marketed as the stand-in home team for people in that whole region then I guess I might change my mind there. But somehow I doubt that's the case.
Seattle to Vancouver is about a 2.5 hour drive. If anything, being close to Vancouver would be good for Seattle's attendance. I imagine those that can't get Canucks tickets would make the drive to see a live NHL game.

Seattle gets some games broadcast on Root NW and has enough transplants from hockey-loving communities (plus 4 WHL teams in Washington) to create a good fanbase.

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