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Old
01-21-2005, 06:15 PM
  #26
leaflover
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Messenger
That's right Dar .. That is what Bettman was talking about ....

Problem being is that I think the majority of owners that Bettman needs in a vote is a very small percentage .. I think its something like 50% +1 to get the new CBA approved and through ...

So that makes 16 teams in favour of this, the other 15 other teams including mostly the big market teams votes are irrelevant in the process as their votes do not count and are not enough from stoping Bettman and his Utopia NHL..
Actually its 50+% if Bettman approves of the cba,75% if he disapproves.

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01-21-2005, 06:19 PM
  #27
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Talk about another sticking point in the process.Who the hell is going to vote for a deal thats likely to send them and their families packing?
This idea doesnt appear to be very well thought out IMO.

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01-21-2005, 10:08 PM
  #28
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Sounds like a dumb idea. It wouldn't be the first by the people that run the NHL.

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01-21-2005, 10:49 PM
  #29
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Why stop there? Maybe they should redistribute all those draft picks & all the young cheap superstars as well. Hey if they wanna make things fair why not go all the ******* way?

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01-21-2005, 10:51 PM
  #30
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I'm no political buff, but isn's this kind of like communism?

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01-21-2005, 11:11 PM
  #31
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It may be dumb, but they're serious...

http://sports.sympatico.msn.ca/Home/...temid=17328017

Quote:
The size of the gap between the two sides is illustrated by Linden's passionate opposition to a salary cap.

He believes a cap is not just bad for the players, it is bad for both the fans and the game. For Linden, that makes the league's relentless drive for "cost certainty" even more distressing.

"We came to them not insisting on anything but trying to find middle ground," Linden said. "The fact that they're willing to do what they're going to do to get something that I don't even feel is good for the game really disturbs me."

The league's Dec. 14 offer calls for a payroll range of $34.6 million to $38.6 million US. Linden argues having all 30 teams with nearly the same payroll would damage the product.

He believes different teams have different payroll needs depending on where they are in their stage of development. Young, developing teams, for example, have smaller payrolls that increase as clubs mature and carry more veteran players.

Linden also says the cap will shred teams like the Detroit Red Wings, Toronto Maple Leafs, Philadelphia Flyers or Colorado Avalanche with star players stripped away.

"Those teams can't look the same under this system," Linden said.

Daly sees a different outcome, saying under the old collective bargaining agreement even rebuilding teams lost players before they were ready to compete because they could no longer afford them.

"You've got teams now that have to be broken up because of the financial reality of the situation," Daly said
I have to say, I was personally ok with a salary cap in principle, but this is just really stupid.

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Old
01-21-2005, 11:32 PM
  #32
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Quiet for a second everyone I think I heard something ..

*listening*
*listening*
*listening*

Oh never mind its just a whole lot of people jumping off the Bettman bandwagon ..

I figured this would happen when he was exposed as an idiot anyway ..

Carry on .. Nothing to see here ..

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Old
01-21-2005, 11:35 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PepNCheese
http://sports.sympatico.msn.ca/Home/ContentPosting.aspx?feedname=CP-AllSports&newsitemid=17328017



I have to say, I was personally ok with a salary cap in principle, but this is just really stupid.
I am no expert ....

but this sounds really bad for the Leafs

"Linden also says the cap will shred teams like the Detroit Red Wings, Toronto Maple Leafs, Philadelphia Flyers or Colorado Avalanche with star players stripped away."

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Old
01-22-2005, 01:00 AM
  #34
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i think i'll got hide under the bed and cry now

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Old
01-22-2005, 01:55 AM
  #35
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why can't the nhl just X out all those cheap/ crappy hockey city teams and just have a HUGE draft and start all over again with the 14-16 teams that are left that want to compete.. and hell have a 50-55 million dollar cap as well for those stupid owners that go over board when it comes to signing FA's


btw i vote The Messenger for NHL commish

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Old
01-22-2005, 02:02 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dar
Just about the right number for an alternative with the highest level of hockey. Maybe ask Winnipeg if they'd like to round it out to 16.
Well can you say WHA ???

The Original WHA had teams ..

Calgary Cowboys
Edmonton Oilers
Quebec Nordiques
Toronto Toros
Vancouver Blazers
Winnipeg Jets
Ottawa Nationals

Look enough teams in Canada to join the WHA and have Hockey in Canada ..

They also had Big Market teams that we would have here ..

Denver Spurs (Colorado)
Philadelphia Blazers
New-York Raiders
Michigan Stags (Detroit)
Chicago Cougars
Los-Angeles Sharks
New-England Whalers (Boston)
Houston Aeros (Dallas)

Not a bad league ...

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Old
01-22-2005, 02:04 AM
  #37
leaflover
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kardi


btw i vote The Messenger for NHL commish
Silly fan.
You voting or having any input at all on anything NHL related is unthinkable!
BTW would you like to renew your seasons tickets?

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Old
01-22-2005, 03:21 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kardi
why can't the nhl just X out all those cheap/ crappy hockey city teams and just have a HUGE draft and start all over again with the 14-16 teams that are left that want to compete.. and hell have a 50-55 million dollar cap as well for those stupid owners that go over board when it comes to signing FA's


btw i vote The Messenger for NHL commish
Well thanks for the Support . .

If I had a say I would be doing this completely differently.

I will be the first to admit that the players are vastly overpaid .. Not so much the Stars, because they are truly the ones the put fans in the seats but the middle to bottom all making millions is silly ... That part of the game needs to be fixed ..

I also think the concept of a Cap or Spending limit if you like to even the playing surface has merit for Fairness .. but I would implement a system that built up to a Cap system .. Like sign a new long-term CBA giving the current NHL time to phase into one and system .. Telling owners that 3 years down the road we will be implementing a Cap system so plan your contracts and future spending accordingly, let current contracts expire and then sign at lower rates in the future (as even the players admitted that is a problem as suggested by their rollback)..

Not this Bettman nonsence .. "This Old CBA ends last September .. now when a new agreement is signed .. Dismantle the Big Market teams immediately as this thread suggests is just plain Lunacy .. Sending players everywhere .. I like to see how he will get around NO-TRADE Contracts, to force players on to new teams, violating that clause..

But most of the problems I feel is that Bettman thinks he is Robin Hood, Robbing from the Rich and giving to the Poor.. His idol is commisioner David Stern and he wants to be just like him, and he comes from a Basketball background turned Hockey Commissioner and he just doesn't understand that Hockey will NEVER overtake popularity of the 3 big sports in America no matter what he does. I would bet in some market College Basketball and Football will also be above Hockey in fan interest and drawing power. The Biggest problem with that is that the poor small non-hockey markets can not compete equally on all levels and often do not have the Fan base, Climate or lifestyle that would keep diehard fans interested regarless of the success of the team, basing that on all the other distraction not just sports related only..

The NHL should be shrinking back down and cutting its losses not babying these teams at the expense of the other ones that are profitable or big market ... That is just plain and stupid IMO ..

Think about that, when in any other business .. Where you have profitable stores and non-profitable ones in a chain .. What idiot would tear apart, cut staff and services and alter how the profitable ones do business so that it makes your poor store location idea's and non profitable stores look better.. Someone needs to buy Bettman a book BUSINESS FOR DUMMIES .. because he does'nt have a clue ..

I heard something today that makes me even more nervous that Hockey is a long way from coming back as we know it .... Aparrently Bettman has promised all these newer expansion teams in the small markets or even the new owners in Buffalo, Ottawa, Vancouver that when the old CBA expired HE WILL HOLD OUT until he gets a Hard Cap and that was a part of League approval and expansion teams and their agreement with the league..

So that said there is no common ground .. Not sure how he can ever go back on that without facing many lawsuits from the owners that he made promises to .. Bettman does not want a fair deal he needs a HARD CAP .. and until the players give in we will have no hockey ..

So bottom line no season and Hockey for a long time .. and if the players give in ..You are starting to hear and see the things that they are in for in a NEW BETTMAN NHL .. I see it as Hockey Holocaust ahead .. and I am an Optomist by nature usually ..

The owners need the players as partners for this system to work and then you read in the papers ..

"Furthermore, Linden said he was insulted when told during the talks that players would have no more say in how the NHL is run than auto workers have say over how an auto company is run".

So you want equal partners with NO SAY eh Bettman !!!!!.. I guess you want Silent Partners then ...


Last edited by Mess: 01-22-2005 at 03:36 AM.
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Old
01-22-2005, 03:50 AM
  #39
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Don't you love this management group.

John Davidson was on the tube, saying that the way the Pred, Blue Jackets, et cetera are going to get their salary to the minimum required by the NNHL is to have teams like the Wings, Leafs, Avs write a cheque for the players those small market teams have to pick up.

So you Leaf fans, here's the deal:

Leafs will have to cut about 9 million from their 24% discounted payroll, AND pay for those teams with low payrolls to pick up the players the Leafs cut!

How do you like this trade?


Bryan McCabe to Nashville for NOTHING!!!!

But that isn't the best part.

Oh no.

You guessed it.

Leaf pay McCabe's contract!!!!



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Old
01-22-2005, 04:11 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Messenger
But most of the problems I feel is that Bettman thinks he is Robin Hood, Robbing from the Rich and giving to the Poor..


I expected something like Bettman thinks he is Robin Hood Robbing from the Rich and giving to the hood. :lol

What happened, Mess from oshawa?

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Old
01-22-2005, 04:27 AM
  #41
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thats what the fans get for supporting the owners lol

mail the nhl about how disgusted you are with that weasle gary bettman who is trying to ruin our sport!

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Old
01-22-2005, 04:37 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55
Don't you love this management group.

John Davidson was on the tube, saying that the way the Pred, Blue Jackets, et cetera are going to get their salary to the minimum required by the NNHL is to have teams like the Wings, Leafs, Avs write a cheque for the players those small market teams have to pick up.

So you Leaf fans, here's the deal:

Leafs will have to cut about 9 million from their 24% discounted payroll, AND pay for those teams with low payrolls to pick up the players the Leafs cut!

How do you like this trade?


Bryan McCabe to Nashville for NOTHING!!!!

But that isn't the best part.

Oh no.

You guessed it.

Leaf pay McCabe's contract!!!!


I guess that explains the reason they do not need revenue Sharing and or require a Soft Cap ..

Simply arbitrarily move players around the league and then have their former clubs pick up the tab ..


Maybe Jeremy Jacobs in Boston is not so dumb after all .. he lets all his players walk via UFA .. then waits until the league gives him new players from other teams with contracts fully paid ..

Now we now why Pittsburgh and others had such a low Salary .. Help is on the way ..


I like this quote the most ...

"You've got teams now that have to be broken up because of the financial reality of the situation," Daly said. "So the system they want to maintain does not foster team-building unless you're in a situation where you can afford to team-build.

I guess by Financial reality he MEANS PROFITABLE AND WELL RUN ... :lol


Last edited by Mess: 01-22-2005 at 04:42 AM.
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Old
01-22-2005, 08:49 AM
  #43
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Quote:
"They just came in there the second day with the same old (expletive)," a player said. "They start talking about how they're going to get teams under the cap and you'd figure they'd grandfather it. But they just said they'd have a dispersal draft and send guys to Pittsburgh and Buffalo to fill out their payroll. That's their plan, seriously."
:mad:

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Old
01-22-2005, 10:04 AM
  #44
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Boy the pro-owners group at TMLF certainly have no sense of humour right now.

I guess they never understood the, "be careful what you wish for" saying until now.

Hollywood script of buffoonery.

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Old
01-22-2005, 10:12 AM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PepNCheese
"They start talking about how they're going to get teams under the cap and you'd figure they'd grandfather it. But they just said they'd have a dispersal draft and send guys to Pittsburgh and Buffalo to fill out their payroll. That's their plan, seriously."
How the hell is that supposed to help all 30 teams get under the cap?

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Old
01-22-2005, 10:20 AM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PepNCheese
http://sports.sympatico.msn.ca/Home/...temid=17328017



I have to say, I was personally ok with a salary cap in principle, but this is just really stupid.
Nothing stupid about it. The players are complaining that teams like Toronto and Detroit will need to be broken up under a salary cap. Daly is just saying that teams like the Oilers and Flames had to be broken up under the old system because the salary structure didn't allow them to keep their better players.

Teams get broken up either way.

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Old
01-22-2005, 10:21 AM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Messenger
Well can you say WHA ???

The Original WHA had teams ..

Calgary Cowboys
Edmonton Oilers
Quebec Nordiques
Toronto Toros
Vancouver Blazers
Winnipeg Jets
Ottawa Nationals

Look enough teams in Canada to join the WHA and have Hockey in Canada ..

They also had Big Market teams that we would have here ..

Denver Spurs (Colorado)
Philadelphia Blazers
New-York Raiders
Michigan Stags (Detroit)
Chicago Cougars
Los-Angeles Sharks
New-England Whalers (Boston)
Houston Aeros (Dallas)

Not a bad league ...
I like it, a couple name changes, Toronto Maple Leafs. Michigan Red Wings (i like how it sounds, and isnt chicago on lake michigan?) Chicago Blackhawks, NewYork Rangers, I think we should throw in Montreal. And houston is a diff city then dallas isnt it? Texas Aeros? Denver Avalanche.

A NFL like set of names.

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Old
01-22-2005, 10:26 AM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Messenger
Quiet for a second everyone I think I heard something ..

*listening*
*listening*
*listening*

Oh never mind its just a whole lot of people jumping off the Bettman bandwagon ..

I figured this would happen when he was exposed as an idiot anyway ..

Carry on .. Nothing to see here ..
Hey I have never sided with Bettman on any issue :mad: . Not once. I hate that bloody weasel. He is killing the NHL.

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Old
01-22-2005, 10:37 AM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Messenger

"You've got teams now that have to be broken up because of the financial reality of the situation," Daly said. "So the system they want to maintain does not foster team-building unless you're in a situation where you can afford to team-build.

I guess by Financial reality he MEANS PROFITABLE AND WELL RUN ... :lol
No, he means high revenue. The Rangers can afford to sign guys that lower revenue teams can't but it certainly doesn't mean that the Rangers are well run. The Oilers on the other had are profitable and well run but they have say good bye to good players once they reach arbitration eligibility in order to stay profitable.

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Old
01-22-2005, 10:38 AM
  #50
ULF_55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaf Army
How the hell is that supposed to help all 30 teams get under the cap?
They are going to move players around the league until every team has the same payroll.

So for example:

Rick Jackman to Toronto with his 600k contract.
Bryan McCabe to Pittsburgh with his rolled back 3.4 million dollar contract.

That takes it one step closer for both teams.

Then:

Brian Leetch to Washington with his 5 million dollar deal.
Josef Boumedienne to Toronto with his contract.


So Leafs would be that much closer to the cap.


That is the vision of the owners.

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