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Lance Armstrong will admit to doping (1/11 report)

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Old
08-26-2012, 03:16 PM
  #126
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Originally Posted by Jevo View Post

USADA has already banned Michele Ferrari, Luis Garcia Del Moral and Pepe Marti as a part of the same investigation that Armstrong was a part of. They are respectively a doctor who made a career out of 'training' (read doping) cyclists including Armstrong, a team doctor for US Postal and a trainer associated with US Postal. Those are all people who were still working in pro cycling or was until recently. They just didn't get the same press Armstrong did because they are not a household name. Getting people like these out of the sport is much more important than convicting Armstrong now, although it has to be said that it is still important to show that just because you retired, it doesn't mean they won't come for you if you cheated.
As a part of the same investigation are also Johan Bruyneel and Pedro Celaya, whos cases are yet to be resolved. Bruyneel is DS for Radioshack and was DS for Armstrong during all his Tour victories, and Celaya is still working as team doctor under Bruyneel, like he was during the Armstrong years.

Personally I think Armstrong is an arrogant ***** and I have nothing but contempt for him. But at this point, it would make me much happier to see the likes of Bruyneel and Ferrari out of the sport, than it would make me see Armstrong lose his titles.
Except the bans by the USADA on those guys really mean absolutely nothing. Beyond that we agree that stopping doping now and in the future is much more important then going after retired riders. Unfortunately USADA needs to get funds every year and catching the big fish (like LA and Landis before) is much more important then catching everyone they can.

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Old
08-26-2012, 06:14 PM
  #127
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He is guilty

Simple reality ,, Innocent people dont just give up there fight

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Old
08-27-2012, 04:27 PM
  #128
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I watched all the TdF through the LA era and although was never a huge cycling fan you guys in this thread seem to make it out to be more interesting than I ever thought it could be. With Hesjedal winning the Giro I've been trying to watch more.

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08-27-2012, 04:39 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by FrozenFloor View Post
I watched all the TdF through the LA era and although was never a huge cycling fan you guys in this thread seem to make it out to be more interesting than I ever thought it could be. With Hesjedal winning the Giro I've been trying to watch more.
It's a great sport but it is difficult to watch if you don't understand all the strategy and teamwork involved. It is far from a one man show. As you understand more of the intricacies, it becomes even better. Stick with it.

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08-28-2012, 11:02 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by ixcuincle View Post
Funny how the bully now has no more fight left in him.
Who cares if he rubbed some people the wrong way. The man was in the business of winning races not sucking up to his detractors. Try to take food off the man's table and then call him a bully for defending himself with every resource available to him?
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But he was also a vindictive and bitter individual who frequently denied allegations and destroyed reputations of those challenging his assertions.
Oh boo hoo. He is not a nice man. Once again, who cares - particularly since the "reputations of those challenging his assertions" were for the most part in tatters already.
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For a guy who had so much zeal in destroying and verbally abusing those who dared to question his accomplishments, he feebly rode off into the sunset, today, his legacy in question.
You say feebly. Many other folks feel that the real "feeble" here is the whole drug testing industry and the "zeal" with which they pursue certain "cheaters" to make it appear that they are actually serving a useful function. Its a bunch of suits trying to hold onto their jobs. They make me sick.

Fact is if Armstrong passed all the tests for ten years, and he did, then that alone proves that the testing system is worthless. A few guys got caught, but if you watch Hincapie on 60 minutes he states that "every team" had their best riders "cheating" in every race and that he would "stake (his) life on it".

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But no one was as adamant at innocence as Armstrong. Nobody.
So what. Nobody was asked as often or hounded as long as Armstrong either.

Drug testing in sport is just a total waste of time and money.
Ultimately sports is for the fans because they are the ones who pay for the tickets. Fans want to see amazing performances, not watch athletes jumping through legal hoops and peeing into cups.

If the tests are faulty and there is no way to win without cheating because all the best competitors are cheating then what would you suggest? Finish tenth and retire a nobody with your "morals" intact? Its laughable that anyone even cares about positive tests anymore.

Even now, the most amazing thing I have ever seen in sport was the way Ben Johnson blew away the field in Seoul. Dude cheated and was "disgraced". Well, he was never a disgrace in my mind and history has shown that every man who lined up in the starting blocks that day (save two guys who nobody ever heard of before or after that day) was a cheater.

I say bring on the cheaters and get rid of the testers.

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08-29-2012, 08:26 AM
  #131
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Originally Posted by KevFist View Post
yeah, Lance was a promising young rider who was pretty much a time trial specialist. He'd won the Worlds, Fleche Wallone and Liege Bastogne Liege, but that's about it. He was a big boy. Cancer forced him to take some weight off his frame. Without cancer, Lance's career plays out much like George Hincapie without the sprinting ability.

There's no doubt in my mind that he was doping.
Possibly.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17095167

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Med Hypotheses. 2007;68(4):735-49. Epub 2006 Nov 13.
Metabolic clues regarding the enhanced performance of elite endurance athletes from orchiectomy-induced hormonal changes.
Quote:
This article examines the metabolic performance of an elite cyclist, Lance Armstrong, before and after his diagnosis with testicular cancer. Although a champion cyclist in 1-day events prior to his diagnosis of testicular cancer at age 25, he was not a contender in multi-day endurance cycle races such as the 3-week Tour de France. His genetic makeup and physiology (high VO2max, long femur, strong heavy build) coupled with his ambition and motivation enabled him at an early age to become one of the best 1-day cyclists in the world. Following his cancer diagnosis, he underwent a unilateral orchiectomy, brain surgery and four cycles of chemotherapy.
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We propose that his dramatic improvement in recovery between stages, the most important factor in winning multi-day stage races, is due to his unilateral orchiectomy, a procedure that results in permanent changes in serum hormones. These hormonal changes, specifically an increase in gonadotropins (and prolactin) required to maintain serum testosterone levels, alter fuel metabolism; increasing hormone sensitive lipase expression and activity, promoting increased free fatty acid (FFA) mobilization to, and utilization by, muscles, thereby decreasing the requirement to expend limiting glycogen stores before, during and after exercise.
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Taken together, these hormonal changes act to limit glycogen utilization, delay fatigue and enhance recovery thereby allowing for optimal performances on a day-to-day basis. These insights provide the foundation for future studies on the endocrinology of exercise metabolism, and suggest that Lance Armstrong's athletic advantage was not due to drug use.


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16797860

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Med Hypotheses. 2007;68(1):9-11. Epub 2006 Jun 23.
Increased hepatic gluconeogenesis: the secret of Lance Armstrong's success.
Quote:
The extraordinary sportive results of the racing cyclist Lance Armstrong did us realize that a high capacity of hepatic gluconeogenesis was the basis of his success, because it might have provided him with less pain complaints caused by lactic acid and with an extra source of energy from lactic acid. This enhanced gluconeogenesis can be due to his heavy training program. At the age of 12-13 years he daily swam 10,000m and cycled 32km.
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The last argument for an increased gluconeogenesis is that Armstrong in October 1996 suffered from an extensively disseminated testicular tumour. This large tumour load caused that in the tumour the oxidative (=aerobic) energy generation changed into a fermentative (=anaerobic) one. This resulted in a high increase of lactic acid that putted up the gluconeogenesis in the liver. We think that this stimulated, high level gluconeogenesis remained high in the following years, when Armstrong restarted cycling, that it provided him with extra energy from lactic acid and with fewer complaints due to the exercise, and that thus this was the basis of his success.

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Old
08-29-2012, 05:54 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by harpoon View Post
Who cares if he rubbed some people the wrong way. The man was in the business of winning races not sucking up to his detractors. Try to take food off the man's table and then call him a bully for defending himself with every resource available to him?
Oh boo hoo. He is not a nice man. Once again, who cares - particularly since the "reputations of those challenging his assertions" were for the most part in tatters already.
This man put food on his table by potentially(you're going to see this word a lot in my post) doping. He shouldn't have made as much money as he did in the first place, so you saying that he's defending himself from his detractors when said detractors dislike him because he potentially helped tarnish the sport doesn't make much sense.


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Originally Posted by harpoon View Post
You say feebly. Many other folks feel that the real "feeble" here is the whole drug testing industry and the "zeal" with which they pursue certain "cheaters" to make it appear that they are actually serving a useful function. Its a bunch of suits trying to hold onto their jobs. They make me sick.
They have named many cheaters in the past, prominent members of the cycling community have been labelled and most have had the decency to at least admit to it, albeit after the fact. Some people are going to take longer to nab then others but what you're saying is there should be a "statute of limitations" and if you've gotten away with it for a period of time it is better off not being brought out into the limelight. You act as if it's something new when LA has been dogged for years about potential cheating.

So just so we are straight here, the people who try and keep the sport as drug-free as possible and keep it on an even keel are the ones that make you sick? While you presumably share admiration for potentially the kingpin of all the cheaters.

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Originally Posted by harpoon View Post
Fact is if Armstrong passed all the tests for ten years, and he did, then that alone proves that the testing system is worthless. A few guys got caught, but if you watch Hincapie on 60 minutes he states that "every team" had their best riders "cheating" in every race and that he would "stake (his) life on it".
It proves that there are weak links in the system and that those need to be solidified in order to ensure that future generations of cyclists aren't pressured into making the same poor choices. These cyclists and their clubs were obviously tipped off about when the tests were or what kind of masking agents or doping options were available to them by people in the know. As pointed out by you some were caught but to many others slipped through the cracks, question now is - How do we stop it from happening again?

Quote:
Originally Posted by harpoon View Post
Drug testing in sport is just a total waste of time and money.
Ultimately sports is for the fans because they are the ones who pay for the tickets. Fans want to see amazing performances, not watch athletes jumping through legal hoops and peeing into cups.
That's rather shortsighted. You, I and most of the athletes don't know the long term ramifications that come from ingesting some of these things into your body, and unfortunately in some cases nobody really does. It's a trial by error thing and many more lives would be lost or greatly damaged if we didn't have some sort of drug testing in professional sports.

It's also a terrible message to send to children that it's not about how much time you invest, how much coaching you recieve, how much heart you have but rather do you have the best access to pharmaceuticals and top notch doctors? I don't want my kid(s) having that message rammed through their brain and if the MLB or Cycling or any league just decided to say "To hell with it, anything goes" then I wouldn't be a fan of them for very long.

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Originally Posted by harpoon View Post
If the tests are faulty and there is no way to win without cheating because all the best competitors are cheating then what would you suggest? Finish tenth and retire a nobody with your "morals" intact? Its laughable that anyone even cares about positive tests anymore.
Yes. That's exactly what you're supposed to do.

You call out the cheaters in your sport if you so choose, you expose them for what they are if that's what you're all about; You don't wallow down to their level. This is why cycling is in the mess it is now.. Rather than fight for change in the sport most of the cyclists were pressured into competing with banned substances leaving the mess we have now.

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Originally Posted by harpoon View Post
Even now, the most amazing thing I have ever seen in sport was the way Ben Johnson blew away the field in Seoul. Dude cheated and was "disgraced". Well, he was never a disgrace in my mind and history has shown that every man who lined up in the starting blocks that day (save two guys who nobody ever heard of before or after that day) was a cheater.
So in theory then, Johnson would've blown away his competitors had they all just not done steroids. If all the competitors save for 2 were all doping the results would've ended up the same.. my question remains : Why dope then?

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I say bring on the cheaters and get rid of the testers.
Good job @ a troll post if that's what you were going for... if not

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08-29-2012, 11:52 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by FrozenFloor View Post
This man put food on his table by potentially(you're going to see this word a lot in my post) doping. He shouldn't have made as much money as he did in the first place, so you saying that he's defending himself from his detractors when said detractors dislike him because he potentially helped tarnish the sport doesn't make much sense.
Except you missed the important part of the sentence that said most of the Armstrong detractors ( and certainly all the "witnesses" they lined up to testify against him) were cheaters themselves who had had already tarnished the sport with their own actions.

And for the record I don't think cheaters "tarnish the sport", I'm just using your words here.

Quote:
They have named many cheaters in the past, prominent members of the cycling community have been labelled and most have had the decency to at least admit to it, albeit after the fact.
Really? you think its "decent" to admit you were cheating. We aren't going to agree on a lot here it seems. Personally I find tearful confessions (like Marion Jones) to be stomach turning. A positive test is all the confirmation needed to determine guilt. No need to go on TV and "admit" all your transgressions in detail. What point does that serve other than to titillate the masses. We aren't talking about actual crimes here after all.

May I suppose you were glued to the press conference Tiger Woods gave to admit to his infidelity as well? Something sick about a culture that wants to see people squirm like that when they haven't actually done anything illegal. jmo.

Quote:
Some people are going to take longer to nab then others but what you're saying is there should be a "statute of limitations" and if you've gotten away with it for a period of time it is better off not being brought out into the limelight.
Absolutely that's what I'm saying. If you pass the freaking tests then that should be the end of it. Even the law has statutes of limitations for real actual crimes .... why should cheating in sport be any different.

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You act as if it's something new when LA has been dogged for years about potential cheating.
Where did I act like that?
Its obvious that most of the good riders have been cheating for years.
I've never believed otherwise.

Quote:
So just so we are straight here, the people who try and keep the sport as drug-free as possible and keep it on an even keel are the ones that make you sick?
Yup. Because of the slimy way they go about their business acting like they are cops to threaten/intimidate witnesses and offer deals when really these guys are just paper pushers and scientists .... AND if the theory everyone is going with (the elite riders had advance notice of test times and procedures) then at least some of the guys you admire so much for trying to keep the sport pure are/were just as dirty as the cheating athletes they are trying to catch.

Quote:
While you presumably share admiration for potentially the kingpin of all the cheaters.
I have a great deal of admiration for Armstrong. He utterly dominated his sport for a decade and gave me many hours of enjoyment watching the Tour de France. That's why I watch sports ... for enjoyment. If he cheated better than all the other cheaters I guess that's just one more feather in his cap.

Quote:
It proves that there are weak links in the system and that those need to be solidified in order to ensure that future generations of cyclists aren't pressured into making the same poor choices. These cyclists and their clubs were obviously tipped off about when the tests were or what kind of masking agents or doping options were available to them by people in the know. As pointed out by you some were caught but to many others slipped through the cracks, question now is - How do we stop it from happening again?
It proves a lot more than that there are weak links. Dozens of champions in as many sports as you would care to name have passed test after test only to have it come out years later that they were "dirty" all along.

You can never stop it from happening again - which is exactly why its a waste of time and money to pretend that you can. And its an even bigger insult to the fans to go after the cheaters that are most high profile as if you are really having an impact on the cleanliness of the sport. Laughable.

Quote:
That's rather shortsighted. You, I and most of the athletes don't know the long term ramifications that come from ingesting some of these things into your body, and unfortunately in some cases nobody really does. It's a trial by error thing and many more lives would be lost or greatly damaged if we didn't have some sort of drug testing in professional sports.
Blah blah blah .... people do what they want with their own bodies. Full stop.

Quote:
It's also a terrible message to send to children that it's not about how much time you invest, how much coaching you recieve, how much heart you have but rather do you have the best access to pharmaceuticals and top notch doctors? I don't want my kid(s) having that message rammed through their brain and if the MLB or Cycling or any league just decided to say "To hell with it, anything goes" then I wouldn't be a fan of them for very long.
Ah yes, the children. Think of the children. The sooner they learn that life isn't fair , the better off they will be imo.

You make it sound like these cheaters never trained or put in any effort whatsoever beyond sticking a needle in their arms. Go watch some interviews with these guys. They have busted their guts for their whole lives to even make it into the race.

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Yes. That's exactly what you're supposed to do.
I admire your morals but I think that your viewpoint is not the viewpoint of an elite athlete.

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You call out the cheaters in your sport if you so choose, you expose them for what they are if that's what you're all about; You don't wallow down to their level. This is why cycling is in the mess it is now.. Rather than fight for change in the sport most of the cyclists were pressured into competing with banned substances leaving the mess we have now.
Don't try to make it sound like this is only cycling. Look at all the MLB players who have been found (years after the fact) to have been cheating all along. Sprinters, weight lifters, football players, sumo wrestlers, ice hockey players ..... its a fact of life in modern sport.

Quote:
So in theory then, Johnson would've blown away his competitors had they all just not done steroids.
Maybe. We'll never know. My point was that I want to see amazing performances. Johnson ran 9.79 in Seoul .... a mark that wasn't equaled for more than a decade. It was a freaking amazing performance that has stuck with me for twenty years - in much the same way I will never forget Armstrong destroying his competition race after race. I have to thank both those gentlemen for the amazing memories. To me the fact that they were the winning cheaters in a field full of cheaters is nothing more than an asterisk to their accomplishments.

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Good job @ a troll post if that's what you were going for... if not
No troll. Dead serious.
Send the money we waste on drug testing to victims of actual tragedies or use it to build sporting facilities in poor countries. I'm not interested in some corrupt lawyers and wannabe politicians dining in fancy restaurants and wearing $1000 dollar suits because they have a job "catching cheaters" - a job that nearly every incident in history shows us they cannot accomplish in a timely and respectable manner.


Last edited by harpoon: 08-30-2012 at 12:00 AM.
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Old
08-30-2012, 02:50 AM
  #134
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Originally Posted by harpoon View Post
No troll. Dead serious.
Send the money we waste on drug testing to victims of actual tragedies or use it to build sporting facilities in poor countries. I'm not interested in some corrupt lawyers and wannabe politicians dining in fancy restaurants and wearing $1000 dollar suits because they have a job "catching cheaters" - a job that nearly every incident in history shows us they cannot accomplish in a timely and respectable manner.


What did they throw in here this time.

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Old
08-30-2012, 08:06 AM
  #135
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I think the average speed has declined from 2004 or something like that.. indicating that riders are using less drugs or less effective drugs.

Or.. it's just an another conspiracy .

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08-30-2012, 08:17 AM
  #136
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May I suppose you were glued to the press conference Tiger Woods gave to admit to his infidelity as well? Something sick about a culture that wants to see people squirm like that when they haven't actually done anything illegal. jmo.
I don't agree with much of what you said, but I do agree with all the "outrage" over Tiger Woods and his infidelity. Everyone is so angry at Tiger, and the only person he hurt was his family. What happened to him should remain a private issue.

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08-30-2012, 01:07 PM
  #137
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Except you missed the important part of the sentence that said most of the Armstrong detractors ( and certainly all the "witnesses" they lined up to testify against him) were cheaters themselves who had had already tarnished the sport with their own actions.

And for the record I don't think cheaters "tarnish the sport", I'm just using your words here.


Really? you think its "decent" to admit you were cheating. We aren't going to agree on a lot here it seems. Personally I find tearful confessions (like Marion Jones) to be stomach turning. A positive test is all the confirmation needed to determine guilt. No need to go on TV and "admit" all your transgressions in detail. What point does that serve other than to titillate the masses. We aren't talking about actual crimes here after all.

May I suppose you were glued to the press conference Tiger Woods gave to admit to his infidelity as well? Something sick about a culture that wants to see people squirm like that when they haven't actually done anything illegal. jmo.

Absolutely that's what I'm saying. If you pass the freaking tests then that should be the end of it. Even the law has statutes of limitations for real actual crimes .... why should cheating in sport be any different.

Where did I act like that?
Its obvious that most of the good riders have been cheating for years.
I've never believed otherwise.


Yup. Because of the slimy way they go about their business acting like they are cops to threaten/intimidate witnesses and offer deals when really these guys are just paper pushers and scientists .... AND if the theory everyone is going with (the elite riders had advance notice of test times and procedures) then at least some of the guys you admire so much for trying to keep the sport pure are/were just as dirty as the cheating athletes they are trying to catch.

I have a great deal of admiration for Armstrong. He utterly dominated his sport for a decade and gave me many hours of enjoyment watching the Tour de France. That's why I watch sports ... for enjoyment. If he cheated better than all the other cheaters I guess that's just one more feather in his cap.

It proves a lot more than that there are weak links. Dozens of champions in as many sports as you would care to name have passed test after test only to have it come out years later that they were "dirty" all along.

You can never stop it from happening again - which is exactly why its a waste of time and money to pretend that you can. And its an even bigger insult to the fans to go after the cheaters that are most high profile as if you are really having an impact on the cleanliness of the sport. Laughable.

Blah blah blah .... people do what they want with their own bodies. Full stop.

Ah yes, the children. Think of the children. The sooner they learn that life isn't fair , the better off they will be imo.

You make it sound like these cheaters never trained or put in any effort whatsoever beyond sticking a needle in their arms. Go watch some interviews with these guys. They have busted their guts for their whole lives to even make it into the race.

I admire your morals but I think that your viewpoint is not the viewpoint of an elite athlete.

Don't try to make it sound like this is only cycling. Look at all the MLB players who have been found (years after the fact) to have been cheating all along. Sprinters, weight lifters, football players, sumo wrestlers, ice hockey players ..... its a fact of life in modern sport.

Maybe. We'll never know. My point was that I want to see amazing performances. Johnson ran 9.79 in Seoul .... a mark that wasn't equaled for more than a decade. It was a freaking amazing performance that has stuck with me for twenty years - in much the same way I will never forget Armstrong destroying his competition race after race. I have to thank both those gentlemen for the amazing memories. To me the fact that they were the winning cheaters in a field full of cheaters is nothing more than an asterisk to their accomplishments.

No troll. Dead serious.
Send the money we waste on drug testing to victims of actual tragedies or use it to build sporting facilities in poor countries. I'm not interested in some corrupt lawyers and wannabe politicians dining in fancy restaurants and wearing $1000 dollar suits because they have a job "catching cheaters" - a job that nearly every incident in history shows us they cannot accomplish in a timely and respectable manner.
You're to cynical to have a meaningful conversation with, when you're willing to be less stubborn and concede on at least a few of the points we can resume this conversation.

I mean come on; You justified children looking up to the athletes that use these substances in their bodies as welcoming them to the real world. It's just a stupid argument and frankly one that doesn't need to be had.

Once you've dropped that holier than thou attitude we'll see where we can get until then,

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08-31-2012, 02:52 PM
  #138
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Fantastic read:

http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor...ng.html?page=1

While I'm not directly in the know about Armstrong, or really much about cycling, this read is quite interesting.

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08-31-2012, 06:43 PM
  #139
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Fantastic read:

http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor...ng.html?page=1

While I'm not directly in the know about Armstrong, or really much about cycling, this read is quite interesting.
I wish I had a longer attention span, because the title and intro have me intrigued

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08-31-2012, 07:04 PM
  #140
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I wish I had a longer attention span, because the title and intro have me intrigued
Well, the abridged version is...it isn't a doping indictment although there is some mention of steroids, it is more about how LA chews up and spits out anybody who he no longer has a use for. It may be a revelation to some but stories like this have been around for a long time. He is far from a nice person.

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08-31-2012, 08:03 PM
  #141
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Originally Posted by Eddie Shack View Post
Well, the abridged version is...it isn't a doping indictment although there is some mention of steroids, it is more about how LA chews up and spits out anybody who he no longer has a use for. It may be a revelation to some but stories like this have been around for a long time. He is far from a nice person.
Thanks for the summary. I'd buy that. He always came off as kind of an ass with a nice cult of personality built up around him.

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09-02-2012, 01:26 PM
  #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go_leafs_go02 View Post
Fantastic read:

http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor...ng.html?page=1

While I'm not directly in the know about Armstrong, or really much about cycling, this read is quite interesting.
And that my friends is why you get contracts done in writing.

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09-03-2012, 01:33 AM
  #143
Corto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go_leafs_go02 View Post
Fantastic read:

http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor...ng.html?page=1

While I'm not directly in the know about Armstrong, or really much about cycling, this read is quite interesting.
Reading the comments on that page, I can't believe people are so blindly defending him.

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10-06-2012, 09:11 AM
  #144
InjuredChoker
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For another interesting and insightful view of events, I'd recommend excellent book by Tyler Hamilton called 'The secret race', co-written with Daniel Coyle who wrote 'Lance Armstrong's war'.

Very interesting and nicely written, couldn't basically let it off my hands.


Last edited by InjuredChoker: 10-07-2012 at 11:44 AM.
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Old
10-06-2012, 01:00 PM
  #145
Johnny Caravella
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Originally Posted by kemisti View Post
For another interesting and insgihtful view of events, I'd recommend excellent book by Tyler Hamilton called 'The secret race', co-written with Daniel Coyle who wrote 'Lance Armstrong's war'.

Very interesting and nicely written, couldn't basically let it off my hands.
Agreed it is an excellent book. If you enjoyed that you might try reading Lance Armstrong's War by the same author, Daniel Coyle. http://www.amazon.com/Lance-Armstron.../dp/0060734973

It was written in 2004 I believe. Some very interesting revelations in that book as well. I especially like when Dr Ferrari pointed out (via his testing) that Floyd Landis was actually stronger than Lance.

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Old
10-10-2012, 12:17 PM
  #146
G F O P
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The USADA reveals 11 teammates came out against Lance. Yeah...an innocent person wouldn't have 11 teammates come forward against him.

I wish people would stop being naive. He cheated. Period.

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Old
10-10-2012, 02:18 PM
  #147
Winger98
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I haven't combed through this thread, but my impression isn't that people are wanting to defend him, a lot of us are just tired of hearing about it. I know I just assumed he was guilty when he quit fighting, and I was happy I wouldn't have it coming across my twitter feed again. Except it is showing up. Again.

Thank you USADA.

edit: christ, my eyes are failing. Not days ahead. Hours.

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10-10-2012, 02:27 PM
  #148
Frolov 6'3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddie Shack View Post
OK, I'm late to the party. But I will offer up some thoughts anyway...

For those of you complaining there is no evidence you obviously do not follow cycling.
I havent even read this topic yet but I was already afraid this topic would be filled with these kind of people.

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Old
10-10-2012, 02:36 PM
  #149
Vasilevskiy
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Bravo USADA, bravo

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10-11-2012, 04:12 AM
  #150
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Wow, after reading some of the document, this is bigger than it seemed at first, this is one of the biggest scandals ever in sport history

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