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Lance Armstrong will admit to doping (1/11 report)

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Old
10-11-2012, 07:11 AM
  #151
octopi
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Originally Posted by Vasilevski View Post
Wow, after reading some of the document, this is bigger than it seemed at first, this is one of the biggest scandals ever in sport history
Pfft. We've known cycling was full of cheating for years.It came on the heels of baseball being found out as *gasp* full of cheaters. Some people just didn't want to believe it is all.Athletes want to get an edge, and only the extremely naive believe that any sport isn't rife with people who know how to beat the system. Some drugs aren't detectable in the body after a very short period of time.

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10-11-2012, 07:45 AM
  #152
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Originally Posted by Eddie Shack View Post
Well, the abridged version is...it isn't a doping indictment although there is some mention of steroids, it is more about how LA chews up and spits out anybody who he no longer has a use for. It may be a revelation to some but stories like this have been around for a long time. He is far from a nice person.
Read the last pages again. It really is about steroids, because the writer claims the reason Armstrong reneged on a (non documented) agreement was that the guy didn't jump to sign something he knew to be a lie.Armstrong weilded a lot of power, was wealthy and had a heroic public facade. A lot of people bought into that myth, and if you crossed him the right way, he could come pretty close to destroying you. Also keeping in mind that the article is the writers perspective, however.

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10-11-2012, 08:40 AM
  #153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by octopi View Post
Pfft. We've known cycling was full of cheating for years.It came on the heels of baseball being found out as *gasp* full of cheaters. Some people just didn't want to believe it is all.Athletes want to get an edge, and only the extremely naive believe that any sport isn't rife with people who know how to beat the system. Some drugs aren't detectable in the body after a very short period of time.
Of course we've known cycling has been full of cheaters in the last decades.

But this is bigger than a bunch of cyclists doping.
USPS had one, if not the most succesful doping team in sports history, they controlled everything, they knew everything.
There's a whole lot of people involved here and a big pile of crap is going to be uncover.

Couldn't be happier that LA has finally been taken down.
He forced teammates to dope or else he kicked them out of the team.
If any of his teammates were better than him (Heras, Landis, Hamilton) they were either threatened, kicked off the team or their doping supplies were cut.
If any of his rivals were going to be better than him he just had to call the UCI... just look at 2004 and what happened with Phonak and Euskaltel at the tour.

Armstrong was the mafia.


Last edited by Vasilevskiy: 10-11-2012 at 09:07 AM.
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10-11-2012, 09:29 AM
  #154
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Yeah, the report depicted him as an aggressive bully that forced other teammates to cheat along with him. It really makes him look like a despicable low-life.

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10-11-2012, 11:40 AM
  #155
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Originally Posted by Frolov 6'3 View Post
I havent even read this topic yet but I was already afraid this topic would be filled with these kind of people.
I'm not clear on what kind of people you are referring to. Those who have know he doped or those who remain ignorant but staunch LA supporters?

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10-11-2012, 11:42 AM
  #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by octopi View Post
Read the last pages again. It really is about steroids, because the writer claims the reason Armstrong reneged on a (non documented) agreement was that the guy didn't jump to sign something he knew to be a lie.Armstrong weilded a lot of power, was wealthy and had a heroic public facade. A lot of people bought into that myth, and if you crossed him the right way, he could come pretty close to destroying you. Also keeping in mind that the article is the writers perspective, however.
I agree with your analysis. My only point was that the article wasn't focused so much on the doping/steroid angle as the Lance as a bully angle.


Last edited by Eddie Shack: 10-11-2012 at 04:00 PM. Reason: spelling
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10-11-2012, 06:55 PM
  #157
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how the **** did he think he would get out clean out of this mess? I mean it's not like he did this for one or two Tours, I would bet good money most of the cycling big Tours winners for the last 4-5 decades were juicing, but he managed to assemble and entire organization working for him for a whole decade. actually I bet he didn't, money, power and fame make you lose your mind.

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10-12-2012, 07:33 AM
  #158
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What's REALLY worrying to me is that it was a system where officials knew and protected the dopers. They were told they would be controlled hours (or sometimes days) before the events.

I know money can corrupt a lot of people, but I hope cyclists are not the only ones to be found guilty here.

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10-12-2012, 09:03 AM
  #159
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None of this is surprising at all. I've been saying for years that all top cyclists dope and the only chance to win these big races is to join in. Here's some statistics to support that.

In the last 15 Tour de Frace races:

11 winners doped
58 top 10 finishers doped

As a cyclist attempting to compete at that level you have two choices.

A)Dope and attempt to compete with the "best"(since the "best" are doping themselves)

B)Don't compete.

It's disgusting how bad it is, but it's not surprising in the least. I'm surprised it took this long to come out.

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10-12-2012, 09:08 AM
  #160
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Originally Posted by Human View Post
how the **** did he think he would get out clean out of this mess? I mean it's not like he did this for one or two Tours, I would bet good money most of the cycling big Tours winners for the last 4-5 decades were juicing, but he managed to assemble and entire organization working for him for a whole decade. actually I bet he didn't, money, power and fame make you lose your mind.
He'll deny until he dies, like Roger Clemens. He's a masochistic, drug-abusing jerk who forced others to conform with him. I mean, I understand what he did for cancer research and I admire his strength to fight back cancer, but anyone who thought he didn't do it is pretty naive.

"I didn't do anything wrong! I gave up pursuing alleged slander which could ruin my reputation for life, but I didn't do it! The system is corrupt! It's all a conspiracy against me!"

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10-12-2012, 09:42 AM
  #161
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I am totally shocked that a team managed by John Bruyneel had a systematic, organized doping program!

Bruyneel learned from the best, he was a domestique for ONCE in the early 1990s. Add in Michele Ferrari and Armstrong's megalomania and you have the perfect storm for what's been revealed.

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10-12-2012, 09:48 AM
  #162
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I love the fact everyone now says they've known it for years.
Makes me want to dig up old theads where I was insulted (and all french people) just for doubting God Armstrong.

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10-12-2012, 09:50 AM
  #163
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I always find it sad how known cheaters will deny that they cheated, to the death. We are a compassionate country. We have forgiven multiple cheaters for their deeds. A few days ago, some American confessed to getting an advantage by sabotaging another Canadian's gear. It's not wrong to confess, yet these egomaniacs will always delude themselves by thinking they are innocent.

You know what they say; if you keep lying to yourself, eventually you'll believe it. Armstrong is just as naive as other known steroiders and cheaters. Keep telling yourself you're this great biker. We all know how you did it. You aren't fooling anyone

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10-12-2012, 10:04 AM
  #164
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Originally Posted by Evilo View Post
I love the fact everyone now says they've known it for years.
Makes me want to dig up old theads where I was insulted (and all french people) just for doubting God Armstrong.
Anyone who's been following the sport of cycling at anything more than a superficial level since the 1990s would have or at least should have known this. The sorts of people you are referring to are no doubt non-cycling fans who were only watching or even paying attention because they wanted to see Armstrong "kick some weenie Euro ass" or something like that.

In spite of it all I still like Armstrong as a cyclist, but that's probably because I take a cynical view of the sport and appreciate that the best cyclists are almost always intense, egotistical arseholes.

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10-12-2012, 03:37 PM
  #165
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Originally Posted by ixcuincle View Post
He'll deny until he dies, like Roger Clemens. He's a masochistic, drug-abusing jerk who forced others to conform with him. I mean, I understand what he did for cancer research and I admire his strength to fight back cancer, but anyone who thought he didn't do it is pretty naive.

"I didn't do anything wrong! I gave up pursuing alleged slander which could ruin my reputation for life, but I didn't do it! The system is corrupt! It's all a conspiracy against me!"
Actually his foundation hardly contributes to cancer research.

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10-12-2012, 04:50 PM
  #166
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yeah, it's not like this is exactly unexpected. I really believe there is some kind of a silence code usually between these guys. the cycling world is a small messy world.

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10-12-2012, 05:29 PM
  #167
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Originally Posted by ixcuincle View Post
He'll deny until he dies, like Roger Clemens. He's a masochistic, drug-abusing jerk who forced others to conform with him. I mean, I understand what he did for cancer research and I admire his strength to fight back cancer, but anyone who thought he didn't do it is pretty naive.

"I didn't do anything wrong! I gave up pursuing alleged slander which could ruin my reputation for life, but I didn't do it! The system is corrupt! It's all a conspiracy against me!"

Pretty much verbatim what Sandusky and his wife are claiming too.

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Actually his foundation hardly contributes to cancer research.
Okay, you got me. what does it do then?

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10-12-2012, 06:00 PM
  #168
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The LAF spends money on cancer awareness but not research. They are more focused on cancer survivorship programs and issues. Funding research is not their mission.

http://www.livestrong.org/What-We-Do...the-Money-Goes

http://www.livestrong.org/What-We-Do...rms-Priorities

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10-13-2012, 04:12 PM
  #169
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As someone who grew up watching Lance dominate those TDFs, this is very disappointing....but not surprising at all. Sad that he was one of my heros growing up.

I read the entire 202 pages and man theres no way he bounces back from this. Nike has to drop the Livestrong brand sooner or later. Lance can only hide behind his foundation for so long.

Too bad hes not gonna get any jail time. Too me its sickening how a guy could do all of this and think hes was going to get away with it. How ****ing delusional and arrogant do ou have to be?

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10-13-2012, 07:25 PM
  #170
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http://news.yahoo.com/did-lance-arms...182038095.html

Haven't read this, imagine I'd just throw this in here though.

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10-13-2012, 08:18 PM
  #171
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Originally Posted by Eddie Shack View Post
The LAF spends money on cancer awareness but not research. They are more focused on cancer survivorship programs and issues. Funding research is not their mission.

http://www.livestrong.org/What-We-Do...the-Money-Goes

http://www.livestrong.org/What-We-Do...rms-Priorities
Just like that crappy Breast Cancer Pink Ribbon crap. Administrative "waste" all over the place. Bun that. If you wanna give money to charity give it to OXFAM or the Red Cross or your local food depot or shelter. That's it, that's all. Everyone is aware of breast cancer, we don't need a thousand runs to end breast cancer which only end up funding the monolithic organizations to keep "raising awareness" and paying their executives lots of money. It's a racket.

Armstrong is going to hell in a handbasket and he deserves every bit of scorn coming his way. What an insufferable d-head.

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10-13-2012, 10:25 PM
  #172
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Just like that crappy Breast Cancer Pink Ribbon crap. Administrative "waste" all over the place. Bun that. If you wanna give money to charity give it to OXFAM or the Red Cross or your local food depot or shelter. That's it, that's all. Everyone is aware of breast cancer, we don't need a thousand runs to end breast cancer which only end up funding the monolithic organizations to keep "raising awareness" and paying their executives lots of money. It's a racket.
I tend to agree. Every time I turn around there's another "Support breast cancer research" drive. Breast cancer research probably has more money raised for it than any other 10 diseases combined. Not to mention those edgy "I <3 mammories" bracelets and shirts that all the kids like to wear so they can be rebels and whine when anyone says they shouldn't wear them certain places. What about shirts and bracelets supporting colorectal cancer? Why can't I wear those? My grampa had it after all. Yet noone thinks "I love butt" is appropriate...

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10-14-2012, 02:00 AM
  #173
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Originally Posted by octopi View Post
I tend to agree. Every time I turn around there's another "Support breast cancer research" drive. Breast cancer research probably has more money raised for it than any other 10 diseases combined. Not to mention those edgy "I <3 mammories" bracelets and shirts that all the kids like to wear so they can be rebels and whine when anyone says they shouldn't wear them certain places. What about shirts and bracelets supporting colorectal cancer? Why can't I wear those? My grampa had it after all. Yet noone thinks "I love butt" is appropriate...
which goes on further making you think what's the incentive to actually find a cure? a cure would stop the pumping of all those money into researches. I know it sounds cynical, but money is money.

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10-14-2012, 06:56 AM
  #174
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Originally Posted by Evilo View Post
What's REALLY worrying to me is that it was a system where officials knew and protected the dopers. They were told they would be controlled hours (or sometimes days) before the events.

I know money can corrupt a lot of people, but I hope cyclists are not the only ones to be found guilty here.
Yup.

Everyone who remotely followed cycling knew Armstrong was a doper and had known this for at least 5 years.

It's a scandal, yeah, but it's not the biggest scandal. The biggest scandal is how the UCI covered up his doping and basically enabled him to compete on a completely uneven playing field.

We all heard this never tested positive stuff, and I certainly just assumed it was because he was very clever. Not because he was being tipped off by his governing body as to when he'd be tested, and then having the results buried when he did actually test positive (on multiple occasions).



Quote:
Originally Posted by avs1dacup View Post
None of this is surprising at all. I've been saying for years that all top cyclists dope and the only chance to win these big races is to join in. Here's some statistics to support that.

In the last 15 Tour de Frace races:

11 winners doped
58 top 10 finishers doped

As a cyclist attempting to compete at that level you have two choices.

A)Dope and attempt to compete with the "best"(since the "best" are doping themselves)

B)Don't compete.

It's disgusting how bad it is, but it's not surprising in the least. I'm surprised it took this long to come out.
People won't like to hear this, but tennis is next.

That sport right now is exactly where cycling was 10-15 years ago. Terrible out-of-competition controls, a governing body that seems to look the other way, freakish and impossible-to-believe transformations of athletes, and a culture of doping going completely under the public radar.

The smoke around the Williams sisters, for ie., is nearly identical to what was floating around Armstrong a decade ago.

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Old
10-14-2012, 07:30 AM
  #175
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Not only tennis... if Fuentes spoke...

Ah, and Del Moral worked for FC Valencia and FC Barcelona... there's a lot going on in soccer, but there aren't interests in investigate


Last edited by Vasilevskiy: 10-14-2012 at 09:21 AM.
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