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Lance Armstrong will admit to doping (1/11 report)

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10-22-2012, 01:43 PM
  #201
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Here's my $0.02...If Ulrich and Armstrong had ridden clean (as well as eryone else), Ulrich would have kicked LA's hind side. Lance was a very ordinary rider without drugs. Ulrich was a monster with or without drugs...if you could keep him away from the strudel.

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10-22-2012, 03:17 PM
  #202
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedBaronIndian View Post

Courtesy of reddit.

Ullrich has more TDF victories than Armstrong now. All those prognostications at the start of the rivalry finally come true

On a more serious note, it is weird to see Riis, Pantani and Ullrich's names up there while all Lance's records are wiped out. Still better than awarding those titles to the likes of Ullrich, Beloki, Kloden, Basso etc
Indurain... ouch...

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10-22-2012, 03:22 PM
  #203
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So, is Ulrich like a Barry Bonds type? Definite superstar without doping, but just couldn't resist kind of thing?

And what is the story with Indurain?

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10-22-2012, 03:39 PM
  #204
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Originally Posted by invictus View Post
So, is Ulrich like a Barry Bonds type? Definite superstar without doping, but just couldn't resist kind of thing?
I believe he is. If it wasn't common knowledge before it should be now that doping does not level the playing field. Some riders get a much bigger boost than others from it. Especially since the UCI arbitrarily set the max hematocrit level at 50%. If you were a rider who's hematocrit normally ranged around 40% a boost to 50% would help you much more than a guy who was naturally at 46%-47% and doped to 50%.

Before the days of the 50% rule Bjarne Riis was know as Mr 60%. He was hardly the only one.

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10-22-2012, 04:13 PM
  #205
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Originally Posted by Eddie Shack View Post
I believe he is. If it wasn't common knowledge before it should be now that doping does not level the playing field. Some riders get a much bigger boost than others from it. Especially since the UCI arbitrarily set the max hematocrit level at 50%. If you were a rider who's hematocrit normally ranged around 40% a boost to 50% would help you much more than a guy who was naturally at 46%-47% and doped to 50%.

Before the days of the 50% rule Bjarne Riis was know as Mr 60%. He was hardly the only one.
Interesting. Thanks for the info.

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10-22-2012, 04:28 PM
  #206
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Originally Posted by invictus View Post
So, is Ulrich like a Barry Bonds type? Definite superstar without doping, but just couldn't resist kind of thing?

And what is the story with Indurain?
Ullrich was one of the most physically talented riders ever, he was (similar to Indurain) the perfect machine.
He doped, just like everyone else did, there was no way to win clean in the 90s/2000s.
What stopped Ullrich from being the perfect machine he could have been (he was so impressive the Tour he won) was his laziness and him being out of shape nearly every year.

Indurain... I don't think he won clean (though D.Millar says that he thinks he won 1 of the 5 clean), but he was one of the most talented riders ever, and a real champion.

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10-22-2012, 05:05 PM
  #207
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Originally Posted by Vasilevski View Post
Ullrich was one of the most physically talented riders ever, he was (similar to Indurain) the perfect machine.
He doped, just like everyone else did, there was no way to win clean in the 90s/2000s.
What stopped Ullrich from being the perfect machine he could have been (he was so impressive the Tour he won) was his laziness and him being out of shape nearly every year.

Indurain... I don't think he won clean (though D.Millar says that he thinks he won 1 of the 5 clean), but he was one of the most talented riders ever, and a real champion.
Very well said on Ullrich, I fully agree. He was a monster, only the best Pantani could beat him in his prime. But I'd say Ullrich's IQ was pretty well below average, he couldn't "read" the race to save his life.

I don't agree on Indurain though, I think he was kinda clean but when he was beaten by Rijs, Ullrich and the new generation he realized something changed in the cyclism world and retired immediately.

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10-22-2012, 05:36 PM
  #208
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Originally Posted by ixcuincle View Post
UCI strips Lance of all his titles. He's never won a Tour De France before.
This is what the time machine is used for?

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10-24-2012, 01:46 PM
  #209
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http://sports.nationalpost.com/2012/...ll-never-give/

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I needed to be the best, and you couldn’t be the best and be clean in this sport. So I doped. And after I beat cancer I needed cycling more than ever, so I kept going. I doped better than anybody — I got better information, I got the best doctors, I pushed the envelope even though EPO killed a bunch of pro cyclists in the 1980s and 1990s. There was no other way. I built a machine to take on pro cycling, and I destroyed fields full of guys who were as dirty as I was. I don’t apologize for that.

I’m sorry I had to dope to be great, but this problem didn’t start with me, and didn’t end with me. So while I accept my lifetime ban, I call on the UCI and WADA and the USADA to agree to a one-time truth and reconciliation commission, to allow other riders to tell the truth without fear of repercussions. The sport created us; the sport needs to let us talk about it.
Too bad his ego and pride will never have him humbled down on camera admitting he's a cheat.

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10-24-2012, 04:05 PM
  #210
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There's a better chance of OJ finding the "real killers" than of Lance ever confessing.

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10-24-2012, 04:43 PM
  #211
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Originally Posted by Eddie Shack View Post
There's a better chance of OJ finding the "real killers" than of Lance ever confessing.
do they threaten them with trials, jail,and lawsuits if they don't come clean(like baseball)?

If theres enough of that, he might. I think otherwise no way. still people who believe in the myth.

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10-24-2012, 05:03 PM
  #212
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Originally Posted by octopi View Post
do they threaten them with trials, jail,and lawsuits if they don't come clean(like baseball)?

If theres enough of that, he might. I think otherwise no way. still people who believe in the myth.
Lance's ego and narcissism would never allow him to admit anything. But additionally, in his case, admitting to his transgressions will find him on the wrong end of a lot of lawsuits. He's lied so much he can't admit the truth now because it will cost him tons of money.

The only current threat of jail would be from the previously shut down federal investigation. Many believe it was shut down for political reasons before the coming US elections. If that case gets re-opened after the election, LA could find himself going to jail for criminal activity beyond the "mere" cheating in a bike race.

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10-25-2012, 07:21 AM
  #213
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Greg LeMond's letter to the UCI:

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Can anyone help me out? I know this sounds kind of lame but I am not well versed in social marketing. I would like to send a message to everyone that really loves cycling. I do not use twitter and do not have an organized way of getting some of my own "rage" out. I want to tell the world of cycling to please join me in
telling Pat McQuaid to resign. I have never seen such an abuse of power in cycling's history- resign Pat if you love cycling. Resign even if you hate the sport.
Pat McQuaid, you know dam well what has been going on in cycling, and if you want to deny it, then even more reasons why those who love cycling need to demand that you resign.
I have a file with what I believe is well documented proof that will exonerate Paul.
Pat in my opinion you and Hein are the corrupt part of the sport. I do not want to include everyone at the UCI because I believe that there are many, maybe most that work at the UCI that are dedicated to cycling, they do it out of the love of the sport, but you and your buddy Hein have destroyed the sport.
Pat, I thought you loved cycling? At one time you did and if you did love cycling please dig deep inside and remember that part of your life- allow cycling to grow and flourish- please! It is time to walk away. Walk away if you love cycling.
As a reminder I just want to point out that you recently you accused me of being the cause of USADA's investigation against Lance Armstrong. Why would you be inclined to go straight to me as the "cause"? Why shoot the messenger every time?
Every time you do this I get more and more entrenched. I was in your country over the last two weeks and I asked someone that knows you if you were someone that could be rehabilitated. His answer was very quick and it was not good for you. No was the answer, no, no , no!
The problem for sport is not drugs but corruption. You are the epitome of the word corruption.
You can read all about Webster's definition of corruption. If you want I can re-post my attorney's response to your letter where you threaten to sue me for calling the UCI corrupt. FYI I want to officially reiterate to you and Hien that in my opinion the two of your represent the essence of corruption.
I would encourage anyone that loves cycling to donate and support Paul in his fight against the Pat and Hein and the UCI. Skip lunch and donate the amount that you would have spent towards that Sunday buffet towards changing the sport of cycling.
I donated money for Paul's defense, and I am willing to donate a lot more, but I would like to use it to lobby for dramatic change in cycling. The sport does not need Pat McQuaid or Hein Verbruggen- if this sport is going to change it is now. Not next year, not down the road, now! Now or never!
People that really care about cycling have the power to change cycling- change it now by voicing your thought and donating money towards Paul Kimmage's defense, ( Paul, I want to encourage you to not spend the money that has been donated to your defense fund on defending yourself in Switzerland. In my case, a USA citizen, I could care less if I lost the UCI's bogus lawsuit. Use the money to lobby for real change).
If people really want to clean the sport of cycling up all you have to do is put your money where your mouth is.
Don't buy a USA Cycling license. Give up racing for a year, just long enough to put the UCI and USA cycling out of business. We can then start from scratch and let the real lovers in cycling direct where and how the sport of cycling will go.
Please make a difference.
Greg

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10-25-2012, 11:06 AM
  #214
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vasilevski View Post
Ullrich was one of the most physically talented riders ever, he was (similar to Indurain) the perfect machine.
He doped, just like everyone else did, there was no way to win clean in the 90s/2000s.
What stopped Ullrich from being the perfect machine he could have been (he was so impressive the Tour he won) was his laziness and him being out of shape nearly every year.
It's funny how all those years he didn't really have the shape to beat Armstrong, even with good team support, yet when he actually was in great shape (2003) the team couldn't keep up. Ullrich annihilated the competition in the first time trial and he might have had a chance to lead before or take the lead in the second one if he hadn't lost so much time in the team trial. Not to mention if he had help in the mountains. He ended up crashing in the second time trial because he took too much of a risk, as he needed to reduce Armstrong's lead.


The problem with not handing out the titles again, though it's probably the right choice, is that you sort of claim that everyone else was guilty as well, without having any proof for it. Many of the candidates where found guilty at one time or the other, but assuming that this was always the case contradics some fundamental principles, like innocent until proven guilty.

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10-25-2012, 01:12 PM
  #215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vasilevski View Post
Greg LeMond's letter to the UCI:
Everyone who loves the sport should be in agreement with LeMond. It is all about corruption. Hein and Pat need to be banned for life from the UCI or any other cycling post.

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10-25-2012, 11:51 PM
  #216
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http://mobile.boston.com/art/22/spor...9pjxStdL/story

and we take a turn for the ridiculous....

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10-26-2012, 05:53 AM
  #217
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I chuckled

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10-29-2012, 08:53 AM
  #218
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Next South Park episode is on Lance Armstrong

I hope they get into him good

Of course, they might go the whole "Everyone cheats" route, but I hope they take some good shots at Armstrong. He certainly deserves it.

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10-29-2012, 12:16 PM
  #219
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Kimmage's article on this was great

http://www.independent.ie/sport/othe...s-3266380.html

I remember seeing that video a few years ago and Armstrong using cancer as his shield in response. Kimmage suffered a lot of criticism and backlash from people and was constantly under attack for his accusations. I believe a lawsuit has even been filed against him for trying to investigate Armstrong. Doesn't matter though, he gets the last laugh now, and rightfully so.

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10-29-2012, 01:03 PM
  #220
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddie Shack View Post
I'm not clear on what kind of people you are referring to. Those who have know he doped or those who remain ignorant but staunch LA supporters?
No I agreed with you. I was refering to those who remain ignorant. Years ago already it was obvious he was doped to the gills.

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10-29-2012, 01:18 PM
  #221
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Very well said on Ullrich, I fully agree. He was a monster, only the best Pantani could beat him in his prime. But I'd say Ullrich's IQ was pretty well below average, he couldn't "read" the race to save his life.

I don't agree on Indurain though, I think he was kinda clean but when he was beaten by Rijs, Ullrich and the new generation he realized something changed in the cyclism world and retired immediately.
He realized people were willing to dope so much that it became "lifethreatening" (like Riss, Ugrumov, Festina in general etc.). I think he didnt want to be part of that, at age 33.

In the Giro of 1993 Big Mig was already tested to the limit by Pjotr Ugrumov. One of the few who were willing to use so much dope that they could immediately die of a heart attack. Hematocriet level above the 60%. Ugrumov was one of the few who actually got rid of him on a climb. Between 1991 and 1995 there hasnt been one single rider who did that. Pjotr was one of Michele Ferrari's first products.

EDIT. Pjotr vs Miguel (around 4.15s the 24th attack of Ugrumov was too much for Miguel ).


Last edited by Frolov 6'3: 10-29-2012 at 01:26 PM.
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10-29-2012, 09:11 PM
  #222
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Originally Posted by Frolov 6'3 View Post
He realized people were willing to dope so much that it became "lifethreatening" (like Riss, Ugrumov, Festina in general etc.). I think he didnt want to be part of that, at age 33.

In the Giro of 1993 Big Mig was already tested to the limit by Pjotr Ugrumov. One of the few who were willing to use so much dope that they could immediately die of a heart attack. Hematocriet level above the 60%. Ugrumov was one of the few who actually got rid of him on a climb. Between 1991 and 1995 there hasnt been one single rider who did that. Pjotr was one of Michele Ferrari's first products.

EDIT. Pjotr vs Miguel (around 4.15s the 24th attack of Ugrumov was too much for Miguel ).
Wow! That is ridiculous

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11-01-2012, 06:52 AM
  #223
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Meh, I tried not to, but I couldn't help... I digged up old threads.

Some posts from then :

Quote:
for some reason the French are being total dicks to Armstrong. I never understood the hatred they directed towards him every year he won, and now once more that he has tried to come back. He is the best thing that ever happened to the Tour. Their agenda is simply that of petty anti-americanism.
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...2&postcount=21

Quote:
You have to be the biggest skeptic in the history of the planet earth! First you accuse every athlete in the Olympics as dopers now Armstrong (again)....Just let it go man and move on!
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...2&postcount=22

Quote:
France STILL wary of Lance Armstrong
I guess they still don't believe he's clean, so the tests continue; this time they wanted his hair.
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...60&postcount=1

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The French are pathetic with the Armstrong hate.
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...63&postcount=2

Quote:
The Armstrong hate is ridiculous. Lance Armstrong single handedly made the TDF relevent in North America, nobody cared about before he won, and they would love nothing more than to get rid of him. I really do think they are jealous that an American dominated the crown jewel of cycling.
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...59&postcount=9

Quote:
1. Yes, that is what I am saying. Because. It was a french paper who came with this stuff. And all people in the world knows that the french have been after him for ages. The paper concluded it was Armstrong, even though they just had some numbers on the test.

I have also read that they were not stored right, and that YES that it might not be EPO at all, but a subtance that looks like it.

This also was in norwegian newspapers. Over time it can be produced stuff in the samples that is very similar to EPO.

2. It has been proven that it was doctors order. Should he have said to the media that he did medications so that the others riders knew that he might be weak?

And it is said that it was 12 tests that were positive. What are the odds for 6(!) of them coming from Armstrong...

I don't think he was doped. Because he almost died of cancer and do you think a guy who almost died because of something in his body almost killed him, would inject himself with unhealthy drugs after that? His body changed after the cancer. It has also been proved many places that bodies can do that. That is why he could take the pain in the hills longer than others after that. He also trained JUST for that race every year.
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...5&postcount=22

Quote:
There is a possibility that the CIA assassinated JFK.
There is a possibility that the USA never actually landed on the moon.

I find it crazy that people think every athlete that accomplishes something incredible is immediately accused of doping.
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...8&postcount=24

Quote:
If Armstrong wasn't American, all of this bull **** would've ended ages ago.
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...1&postcount=33

Quote:
Like the French's witch hunt, Landis' story doesn't add up, either.
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...5&postcount=55

Again, to convince american people, you need american sources.

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11-01-2012, 12:04 PM
  #224
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As you can see by my previous posts I am no fan of LA nor have I been for a long time. But I am wondering how your French press is doing with the remarkable climbing of Thomas Voeckler and Pierre Rolland the past two Tours. Just a couple of great riders? Me thinks not.

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11-01-2012, 12:15 PM
  #225
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Especially Voeckler, very good cyclist but last year's performance was... well.

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