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2012-2013 Prospect Talk PART IV

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Old
10-18-2012, 08:21 AM
  #251
Chapin Landvogt
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Originally Posted by redbull View Post
I think his point is that Strome should be really separating himself, statistically, from other players. Based on the amount of points he put up in his draft year, Chapin (and others, myself included to be honest) were HOPING FOR and somewhat EXPECTING Strome to build on those numbers and show that he'd out-grown the OHL by now. Whether that's 100pts, 97pts or 140pts isn't really the point. It's about Strome showing, at least OFFENSIVELY (which is his defining attribute, the reason why he was chosen at #5), he should be outright dominating at this level. And he isn't.
Good lord man, this is EXACTLY what I've wanted to state the whole time. I haven't been able to do it so eloquently.

Wonderful!

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10-18-2012, 09:19 AM
  #252
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Originally Posted by Chapin Landvogt View Post


Accepted.

We've all been around these boards long enough to know that there's always somebody having a notion that simply irks us. I realize mine is irking a number of our fine posters here.

Still, there's one other thing that I wanted to touch on:


I don't necessarily think this says a whole lot in light of what my concern at hand is. McDavid is several years away from his draft and Monohan is one of the top guys for this year's draft. Neither has been drafted, or is in his 4th year of CHL play. Faksa and Gaunce were first taken last summer and weren't also weren't taken nearly as high as Strome. Especially Gaunce is not really seen as being an offensive weapon in the class of a Strome. He went where he did for other reasons.

Scheifele's first overall OHL season was his draft year and let's been honest, he was the 'reach' in the top ten, if not Zibanejad at 5. In anything, he and Strome are somewhat comparable in expectations, but I'm thinking just about anybody in the know is gonna tell us that they expect Strome to fill more of a scoring role at the NHL level.

Galchenyuk is a guy who I thoroughly expect to be better than Strome at some point, but he too is actually only in his second 'full' season of OHL play, coming off what was more or less a lost year and the always tough ACL tear.

I guess what I'm getting at is that I think it is more than fair to at least want to see more from him than his peers. We should think that excelling at this point is the next stage. We shouldn't necessarily be holding him to the standards of guys who, quite honestly, haven't been taken for the reasons and with the expectations he has.

With the exception of maybe Galchenyuk, who doesn't yet have Strome's calling card or comparative stats, I fully expect Strome to be a higher impact player than any of the drafted players you mentioned.

I really want and expect more out of him than his current drafted OHL peers, most of whom are not skating in their 4th season of CHL play.
I understand, and I actually wasn't going to post that because of the age differential, but then I figured that it really shouldn't effect anything since Strome's best statistical season was in his draft year, which is this season for Monohan. If the hype is warranted for McDavid, he should have a huge year as well. Galchenyuk should also be among the point leaders, as should Scheifele to a lesser extent. The others I agree, Strome is on another level, but all of the aforementioned players have similar if not higher ceilings, and should all have big statistical seasons regardless of their age. The fact that Strome is ahead of all of them is a good sign, IMO.

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10-18-2012, 11:21 AM
  #253
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Originally Posted by doublechili View Post
The guy Strome has always reminded me of is Claude Giroux. Similar styles, frames, skating. And Grioux's CHL point production kind of flattened out after his draft year, similar to Strome. I think it could have something to do with being a hyper-creative, skilled player who coaches let roam free a bit when they're 16 and 17, but then after being drafted they start focusing on other things than scoring and their production "suffers" a bit.

Based on the very little I've seen of Strome actually playing hockey in the WJC, I'm not too worried. His skills and his sense seem top notch.
Exactly! This is something that has to be kept in the framework of fans expectations. Younger players are very rarely well rounded.

IMO, scoring and being flashy is easier than being responsible in all three zones and making plays that contribute to being a COMPLETE player.

Listen, if Strome ends up being a 50-60 point guy I am sure we will not be thrilled (seeing as how the kid was top five) but in the same regard if you know the kid is going to do more than just hold his own in the defensive and neutral zones....

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10-18-2012, 08:45 PM
  #254
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Thursday

Niagara 3, Brampton 2 (OT)-Theoret, 1 goal, 2 assists, Strome, 1 goal, 1 assist, Graham + 1.
Windsor 2, Erie 2-Pelech, even.
Minnesota-Duluth 3, Notre Dame 1-Lee, Russo each -1.


Last edited by Degeneration Rex: 10-18-2012 at 09:24 PM.
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10-18-2012, 09:08 PM
  #255
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Originally Posted by Chapin Landvogt View Post
Good lord man, this is EXACTLY what I've wanted to state the whole time. I haven't been able to do it so eloquently.

Wonderful!
Chapin. You're like Bettman. You're passionate and just misunderstood. So people attack you.

I'm glad to be of service.

I'm pretty good at telling people what they think, but I only use that power to serve my own needs (usually with females, but I digress).


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10-19-2012, 12:29 AM
  #256
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Originally Posted by Degeneration Rex View Post
Thursday

Niagara 3, Brampton 2 (OT)-Theoret, 1 goal, 2 assists, Strome, 1 goal, 1 assist, Graham + 1.
Windsor 2, Erie 2-Pelech, even.
Minnesota-Duluth 3, Notre Dame 1-Lee, Russo each -1.
go stromer!!!

---

saw a feature on connor mcdavid, 15 years old, holy crap, this kid is incredible. He looks like he can play pro TODAY! wow.

I can't wait until he's torn apart by scouts in three years, when the NYI win the draft lottery?

If the lockout lasts three more seasons, the isles will have a great shot to land one of MacKinnon, Jones, McDavid!

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10-19-2012, 02:02 AM
  #257
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Originally Posted by Chapin Landvogt View Post
Good lord man, this is EXACTLY what I've wanted to state the whole time. I haven't been able to do it so eloquently.

Wonderful!
Here's where the rest of us are coming from on this point:

Name one prospect, let's just say from the OHL -- from the past 10-15 years that you can use as an example of this. Someone that was drafted say, top 10, spent 4 years in the OHL and dominated statistically as you would like to see Strome dominate in their final season and then went on to become an NHL star or impact player. This will help illustrate whether or not it's important.

Two cases immediately come to mind just from my memory -- Bobby Ryan and Bryan Little.

Bryan Little had two 100-point seasons to cap off his OHL career. He was a much more complete player during his draft year than was Strome and was also a late birthdate, so that changes things. Nevertheless, he did put up over 100 points in his final OHL season. I don't think that did much for his NHL career up to this point as he was supposed to be a goal scorer on par with Phil Kessel with a more complete game from the junior hype. Hasn't happened yet, but he is more "complete"!

Bobby Ryan is a different case altogether -- he always had all-world skill, but was a piss-poor skater and overweight his first few years in the OHL. It took some time for his skating/physique to come around. As his training and skating improved each year -- so did his production, as expected. His defensive game didn't begin to come around until pros. He was a project when picked and the Ducks knew it, but most were calling him a bust before he made it out of the OHL because they expected a 2nd overall to make immediate impact. Unbelievable! Once again, different case altogether.

The only players that usually tear the OHL a new one in their 4th years are guys with no pro future like Corey Locke, Rob Schremp, etc. So it just goes to show it really doesn't matter what numbers they put up, just as long as they develop the weaknesses in their games and progress overall. The numbers they put up in juniors are meaningless in the pros and are never any indication as to what they will do in numbers-wise in the NHL.

These are two examples, not the best comparisons, but maybe you can find another one to help prove your point. In the end, I think history shows it doesn't matter.

P.S. Strome is 6th overall in OHL scoring. Isn't that enough?

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10-19-2012, 05:15 AM
  #258
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I'm pretty good at telling people what they think, but I only use that power to serve my own needs (usually with females, but I digress).

... uhhhh, I actually run a professional wingman service. Just give me a hoot!

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10-19-2012, 05:29 AM
  #259
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I understand, and I actually wasn't going to post that because of the age differential, but then I figured that it really shouldn't effect anything since Strome's best statistical season was in his draft year, which is this season for Monohan. If the hype is warranted for McDavid, he should have a huge year as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redbull
saw a feature on connor mcdavid, 15 years old, holy crap, this kid is incredible. He looks like he can play pro TODAY! wow.

I can't wait until he's torn apart by scouts in three years, when the NYI win the draft lottery?

If the lockout lasts three more seasons, the isles will have a great shot to land one of MacKinnon, Jones, McDavid!
Saw a tweet about how Crosby claims that McDavid reminds him of himself at that age.

Here's a little video where we can see that he's already being primed as an actor as well
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tece...eature=related

I just love seeing the MacKinnons and McDavids of the world coming up. Always provides us with that buzz of excitement.

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10-19-2012, 06:04 AM
  #260
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Name one prospect, let's just say from the OHL -- from the past 10-15 years that you can use as an example of this. Someone that was drafted say, top 10, spent 4 years in the OHL and dominated statistically as you would like to see Strome dominate in their final season and then went on to become an NHL star or impact player.
Off the top of my head, I have to mention the two guys who I was originally thinking about with respect to the type of statistical dominance I was expecting of Strome this year, namely Jason Spezza and Jordan Eberle.

Going further, especially with all the talk about Strome maybe ultimately being moved to the wing and in light of the similar size and game-play description, I've been thinking (and I believe often writing) that the organization is expecting Strome to be our Jordan Eberle.

Naturally, we don't know where they'll be putting him at the NHL level, but that's the type of impact this franchise needs and I'm kind of expecting it in light of skipping Couturier to grab him.

You're right that it's generally hard to find a top 10 guy with a statistically dominating 4th CHL season, because they usually don't make it to one. They're often brought right into the NHL after the draft or only play a third CHL season before being brought up.

Quote:
P.S. Strome is 6th overall in OHL scoring. Isn't that enough?
Well, the good thing in my mind's eye is that he has indeed picked up the pace since the discussion began.

Remember, it all started when I expressed disappointment with his 6 points in 5 games. That's now 16 in 12. A bit better clip. He's had several 2 point games of late.

However, and this relates a bit to the post above from Blinkman, the top 15 in scoring in the OHL currently does not include any player drafted as highly as Strome or any first rounders in their 4th season of OHL play. Again, whereas there is some relativity to take into account, a wish to see more dominance is based largely on the expectations of him as an offensive-oriented producer, the nature of his draft position and the league+international experience he currently possesses. Hardly a one of his topscoring peers has all that.

All this said, I've not been indicating at any time that his stat production now is a statement on how good a NHL player he'll one day be. It is an indication for worry by those who want to see more out their franchises top offensive prospect. I just want and expect to see more at this point seeing as how that is his calling card.

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10-19-2012, 06:49 AM
  #261
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Originally Posted by Chapin Landvogt View Post
Off the top of my head, I have to mention the two guys who I was originally thinking about with respect to the type of statistical dominance I was expecting of Strome this year, namely Jason Spezza and Jordan Eberle.

Going further, especially with all the talk about Strome maybe ultimately being moved to the wing and in light of the similar size and game-play description, I've been thinking (and I believe often writing) that the organization is expecting Strome to be our Jordan Eberle.

Naturally, we don't know where they'll be putting him at the NHL level, but that's the type of impact this franchise needs and I'm kind of expecting it in light of skipping Couturier to grab him.

You're right that it's generally hard to find a top 10 guy with a statistically dominating 4th CHL season, because they usually don't make it to one. They're often brought right into the NHL after the draft or only play a third CHL season before being brought up.



Well, the good thing in my mind's eye is that he has indeed picked up the pace since the discussion began.

Remember, it all started when I expressed disappointment with his 6 points in 5 games. That's now 16 in 12. A bit better clip. He's had several 2 point games of late.

However, and this relates a bit to the post above from Blinkman, the top 15 in scoring in the OHL currently does not include any player drafted as highly as Strome or any first rounders in their 4th season of OHL play. Again, whereas there is some relativity to take into account, a wish to see more dominance is based largely on the expectations of him as an offensive-oriented producer, the nature of his draft position and the league+international experience he currently possesses. Hardly a one of his topscoring peers has all that.

All this said, I've not been indicating at any time that his stat production now is a statement on how good a NHL player he'll one day be. It is an indication for worry by those who want to see more out their franchises top offensive prospect. I just want and expect to see more at this point seeing as how that is his calling card.
I was waiting for the sands of time to catch up to this silly argument.

Strome's the real deal- to make any sort of observation as to final production level so early in the season is fruitless.

Unless you're facing an NHL lock-out and are starving for hockey discussion

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10-19-2012, 07:16 AM
  #262
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Originally Posted by bluechipbonzo View Post
Strome's the real deal
Certainly hope so. Would like more evidential excitement with respect hereto at this point.

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- to make any sort of observation as to final production level so early in the season is fruitless.
Observations were made about 6 points in 5 games.

Now, I know you love prospects - and especially bluechippers - so I'll make this observation:
If #7 2011 pick (with all-round game his calling card) Mark Scheifele can be leading the OHL with 19 points in 11 games in his third OHL season, I'd have thought that #5 2011 pick (with pure offensive instincts and dynamism as his calling card) Ryan Strome could have say 25 points in 12 games in his fourth OHL season.

It's ultimately relative, but I think I'm fair in expecting, well, what Redbull wrote above.

Quote:
Unless you're facing an NHL lock-out and are starving for hockey discussion
Bingo!!!

The root of all prospect-talk evil at this time of year.

By the way, watched another bit of Petrov's AK Kazan the other day and am really liking what I'm seeing. They beat Datsyuk's club 5-2. I don't think Petrov had any points, but he is playing regularly and keeping opponents very busy out there.

Boy do I ever hope he comes over at some point - looking at that style of his, I just want to see what he would do on a smaller rink over the prolongued period of time of a season.

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10-19-2012, 08:41 AM
  #263
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Originally Posted by Chapin Landvogt View Post
Certainly hope so. Would like more evidential excitement with respect hereto at this point.



Observations were made about 6 points in 5 games.

Now, I know you love prospects - and especially bluechippers - so I'll make this observation:
If #7 2011 pick (with all-round game his calling card) Mark Scheifele can be leading the OHL with 19 points in 11 games in his third OHL season, I'd have thought that #5 2011 pick (with pure offensive instincts and dynamism as his calling card) Ryan Strome could have say 25 points in 12 games in his fourth OHL season.

It's ultimately relative, but I think I'm fair in expecting, well, what Redbull wrote above.



Bingo!!!

The root of all prospect-talk evil at this time of year.

By the way, watched another bit of Petrov's AK Kazan the other day and am really liking what I'm seeing. They beat Datsyuk's club 5-2. I don't think Petrov had any points, but he is playing regularly and keeping opponents very busy out there.

Boy do I ever hope he comes over at some point - looking at that style of his, I just want to see what he would do on a smaller rink over the prolongued period of time of a season.
Meh, I'd just be satisfied as long as he's top-5/10. Scheifele currently has two teammates as well as himself in the top-5 in scoring. Another teammate in the top-15. Strome's the only Icedog in the top-20. I think the fact that he's still performed the way he has without much help around him is encouraging.

Either way, this all will be moot in a few days. Once there's an agreement in place, Camps will begin to meet and Strome will be there. For better or worse, once that happens I don't see him going back to Juniors.

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10-19-2012, 10:10 AM
  #264
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Tonight on NHL Network, 7PM.

Erie (Pelech, McDavid) vs London.

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10-19-2012, 11:07 AM
  #265
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Tonight on NHL Network, 7PM.

Erie (Pelech, McDavid) vs London.
Cool, a chance to get a look at the new boy wonder.

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10-19-2012, 11:11 AM
  #266
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Meh, I'd just be satisfied as long as he's top-5/10. Scheifele currently has two teammates as well as himself in the top-5 in scoring. Another teammate in the top-15. Strome's the only Icedog in the top-20. I think the fact that he's still performed the way he has without much help around him is encouraging.

Either way, this all will be moot in a few days. Once there's an agreement in place, Camps will begin to meet and Strome will be there. For better or worse, once that happens I don't see him going back to Juniors.
I hope not. If the lockout is settled and there is NHL Hockey, I hope the Isles leave him at Niagara. No matter how talented he is, I want him as prepared as possible before making the jump to the Show. I don't want to see a Nino 2.0 situation with him this year.

Strome is performing well and I think it's highly likely that he's traded to a contending team for a Memorial Cup run later on. Let him have his moment (the anti-Bailey) and try and get that gold at the WJC.

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10-19-2012, 02:24 PM
  #267
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Originally Posted by Chapin Landvogt View Post
Saw a tweet about how Crosby claims that McDavid reminds him of himself at that age.

Here's a little video where we can see that he's already being primed as an actor as well
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tece...eature=related

I just love seeing the MacKinnons and McDavids of the world coming up. Always provides us with that buzz of excitement.
Looking forward to watching McDavid tonight. This kid looks incredible out there. He looks like a bigger, faster, younger version of Crosby who works just as hard and stick-handles better. If you can believe that.

Crosby did say that about him, and it's obvious why.

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10-19-2012, 03:07 PM
  #268
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Originally Posted by Chapin Landvogt View Post
Off the top of my head, I have to mention the two guys who I was originally thinking about with respect to the type of statistical dominance I was expecting of Strome this year, namely Jason Spezza and Jordan Eberle.
Spezza is another Bobby Ryan example, he always had all-world skill and was hyped like Tavares im his junior days, but his skating was his biggest deficiency. His numbers increased as his skating improved. Again, following their individual development path -- different case than Strome. He's also more talented and was a different level prospect than Strome.

Eberle is a better example, but he was a WHLer and I don't get to see WHL kids as often as I see OHL kids. That said, keep in mind Eberle is a winger and Strome is a center -- different responsibilities.

Quote:
Going further, especially with all the talk about Strome maybe ultimately being moved to the wing and in light of the similar size and game-play description, I've been thinking (and I believe often writing) that the organization is expecting Strome to be our Jordan Eberle.
What talk? From whom? HFers? There is no talk from the organization to move Strome, a natural center, to the wing. Strome hasn't played wing nor do the Islanders plan on moving him there from all indications. That is a common misconception with Isles fans and I think it's because they want to see him next to Tavares. On the other hand, I think he was drafted with full intent of slotting him right behind Tavares at center, where Strome is most effective. I also don't think the organization is even thinking about Eberle in regards to Strome.

Quote:
Naturally, we don't know where they'll be putting him at the NHL level, but that's the type of impact this franchise needs and I'm kind of expecting it in light of skipping Couturier to grab him.
Couturier is a fine player, I think of him more along the lines of a Keith Primeau type of player. Great player to have, but I don't see some franchise #1 center that some try to make him into. Strome on the other hand really reminds me of Marc Savard and when it's all said and done, I think he'll take a little longer to come around, but when he does, he'll be a similar player -- at center.


Quote:
You're right that it's generally hard to find a top 10 guy with a statistically dominating 4th CHL season, because they usually don't make it to one. They're often brought right into the NHL after the draft or only play a third CHL season before being brought up.
That's true, which is why you can't really say one way or the other what is to be expected from him statistically. The point is that he keeps developing and working on his weaknesses. Which he is. Statistics be damned...


Quote:
Well, the good thing in my mind's eye is that he has indeed picked up the pace since the discussion began.

Remember, it all started when I expressed disappointment with his 6 points in 5 games. That's now 16 in 12. A bit better clip. He's had several 2 point games of late.
Which should hopefully show you that giving any kind of thought to stats a few weeks into the season is a huge waste of time.

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10-19-2012, 07:12 PM
  #269
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Degeneration Rex View Post
Tonight on NHL Network, 7PM.

Erie (Pelech, McDavid) vs London.
Pelech just scored on the PP

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10-19-2012, 07:44 PM
  #270
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Just turned on the Erie/London game in time to see Pelech make a nice defensive play on Domi to strip him of the puck, throw a nice check, and then hear the announcers praise his excellent play so far this season and also praise how he stuck up for a teammate against Windsor.

Good to see and hear.

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10-19-2012, 07:49 PM
  #271
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Pretty good game, 2-2 after 2 periods. Erie has a very young and experienced team but a lot of
raw talent starting with McDavid.

The only glaring mistake Pelech made was late in the game when one of the London forwards
went around him but Erie goalie Oscar Dansk (who played a real good game) made the save.
Pelech blocked shots, was physical and moved the puck nicely-kind of reminds of Willie Mitchell.


Besides his hockey gifts McDavid is fearless. He'll get hit but he never back off and plays in traffic.


Last edited by Degeneration Rex: 10-19-2012 at 10:56 PM.
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10-19-2012, 08:42 PM
  #272
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McDavid is goood! Pelech looks really solid, nothing flashy just not alot of mistakes at all.

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10-19-2012, 09:01 PM
  #273
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Friday
Bathurst 5, Cape Breton 3-Leduc, -3.
Erie 3, London 2 (SO)-Pelech, 1 goal.
Guelph 6, Sarnia 3-Pedan, 1 goal.
Edmonton 5, Moose Jaw 1-Reinhart, + 1.
Spokane 2, Seattle 1-Kichton, + 1.
Notre Dame 4, Minnesota-Duluth 1-Russo, 1 goal, Lee 1 assist.
Denver 5, UMass-Lowell 1-Mayfield- + 1.


Last edited by Degeneration Rex: 10-20-2012 at 05:46 AM.
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10-19-2012, 09:42 PM
  #274
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McDavid is goood! Pelech looks really solid, nothing flashy just not alot of mistakes at all.
agreed on both counts.

McDavid will be a very special player. I'd say he is the best player on the ice and it's shocking that he's just 15. His linemate is FIVE YEARS OLDER than him. Incredible ability to skate and stickhandle at high speed with strength and desire and vision. Wow.

Pelech scored a pretty nice PP goal but he doesn't play an offensive game (though he does play in offensive situations on Erie). Bit of an awkward skater, needs to improve his footwork and quickness as he gets bigger but he looks pretty damn good out there. The announcers were pretty impressed with him and he's relied on heavily, especially defensively. Nice player.

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10-19-2012, 10:13 PM
  #275
Mathletic
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Just wondering what you people think of Kabanov so far in the AHL?

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