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2012-2013 Prospect Talk PART IV

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10-23-2012, 09:05 AM
  #326
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Originally Posted by Degeneration Rex View Post
Offensively I think Pedan has more natural instincts than Mayfield, but Mayfield looked so much better in this years scrimmage than in the 2011 game. We are happy having both Mayfield and Pedan, both big, mean and can skate.

Sundstrom played such a good two way game at last year's World Junior doing a lot of things away from the puck that are important
to winning games. Of the centers in the Isles system Sundstrom is the best one who can move to any forward spot and not miss a beat.
It's funny you mentioned that Mayfield looked so much better in the 2012 rookie scrimmage than the 2011 one. I went to the 2011 scrimmage, and was really disappointed in Mayfield, thought he was the worst D-man, made a ton of mistakes, while Pedan looked smooth, confident, and even scored a goal. This year, watching the scrimmage on Isles TV, I was amazed at how great Mayfield looked, obviously the best D-Man in that scrimmage. I think the second half of the college season gave Mayfield a ton of confidence, he was like a different player in the second half. I love that we have some big, tough d-men that can skate, AND have some offensive ability. The future sure is bright.

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10-23-2012, 09:34 AM
  #327
Chapin Landvogt
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Originally Posted by Degeneration Rex View Post
I went to the blue-white scrimmage at the Coliseum after the 2011 draft and really liked Pedan
in that game with his skating and hockey sense.
Wait a second, I think that's what I'm thinking about.

That was on IslesTV, right? Yep, that rings a bell and I had the same impression of Pedan.

Is he actually eligible to play for Team Russia at this winter's WJC?

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10-23-2012, 09:38 AM
  #328
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Originally Posted by Chapin Landvogt View Post
Wait a second, I think that's what I'm thinking about.

That was on IslesTV, right? Yep, that rings a bell and I had the same impression of Pedan.

Is he actually eligible to play for Team Russia at this winter's WJC?
Pedan's last chance was last year for the Russian Team for the WJHC. I was shokced he wasn't picked, he was having a very good year in Junior.

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10-23-2012, 09:42 AM
  #329
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Pedan's last chance was last year for the Russian Team for the WJHC. I was shokced he wasn't picked, he was having a very good year in Junior.
I believe Pedan is still eligible for this years WJC. However some russian posters around here weren't too thrilled about him. Some said he was horrible on big ice and I think he isn't even invited to play in Subway Series...

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10-23-2012, 09:46 AM
  #330
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I believe Pedan is still eligible for this years WJC. However some russian posters around here weren't too thrilled about him. Some said he was horrible on big ice and I think he isn't even invited to play in Subway Series...


I stand corrected, he was born Jul 3rd 1993, is only 19 years old, so he's eligible. I'm surprised he's horrible on big ice, he looks like a good skater. Also, he must have been highly thought of in Russia,was a high draft choice in the KHL. I'm surprised by that info kuwo.

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10-23-2012, 09:46 AM
  #331
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Originally Posted by Seph View Post
Prior to the 2012 draft, in the first three rounds. Snow had taken 12 forwards, 7 Dmen, and 2 goalies. Factoring in that there ate twice as many forwards on a team as Dmen, this seems like a fairly normal spread. I don't see how it is ignoring anything.

It's probably moot, but I do kind of wonder right now, seeing as how de Haan is out again for what is looking like a problem that will forever plague him, whether his shoulder problem history didn't already play a role in the 7 Dmen being taken this summer?

Na, even if it did, it was ever so slight a role.

Still can't really get over seeing one position being taken throughout the whole draft. I don't know where I read it or heard it (right after the draft, maybe IslesTV or IPB or something), where the Islander representative (I thought it was a scout) was asked if the club was targeting only defenseman and the answer was (and I'm paraphrasing), "No, we were just taking the BPP every time we were up to bat. That just happened to be all defensemen in this case."

Uhhh, ya, I'm not really buying that, especially not with a few high schoolers in the bunch.

Be that as it may, I found it interesting that that need was directly addressed and it may lend creedance to at the least the thought that Snow has something up his sleeve on the trade front. But even if he does, is de Haan's injury now going to be a direct thorn in the side of those plans?

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10-23-2012, 09:54 AM
  #332
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Originally Posted by Chapin Landvogt View Post
It's probably moot, but I do kind of wonder right now, seeing as how de Haan is out again for what is looking like a problem that will forever plague him, if his should problem history didn't already play a role in the 7 Dmen being taken this summer?

Na, even if it did, it was ever so slight a role.

Still can't really get over seeing one position being taken throughout the whole draft. I don't know where I read it or heard it (right after the draft, maybe IslesTV or IPB or something), where the Islander representative (I thought it was a scout) was asked if the club was targeting only defenseman and the answer was (and I'm paraphrasing), "No, we were just taking the BPP every time we were up to bat. That just happened to be all defensemen in this case."

Uhhh, ya, I'm not really buying that, especially not with a few high schoolers in the bunch.

Be that as it may, I found it interesting that that need was directly addressed and it lends creedance to at the least the thought that Snow has something up his sleeve on the trade front. But even if he does, is de Haan's injury now going to be a direct in the side of those plans?
I don't put a lot of faith in the Isles scouts, especially after the debacle of the 2010 draft (Niederreiter, Nelson and Kabanov were great picks, terrible wasteful picks afterwards). Therefore the ALL D-men draft was kind of ridiculous. There were several wasted picks, Loic Leduc comes to mind, when there were way more talented people still on the board (who are producing). If you look at the Isle's drafts from 2008-2012, you have to be satisfied overall, but there have been some great blunders as well.

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10-23-2012, 10:13 AM
  #333
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I don't put a lot of faith in the Isles scouts, especially after the debacle of the 2010 draft (Niederreiter, Nelson and Kabanov were great picks, terrible wasteful picks afterwards). Therefore the ALL D-men draft was kind of ridiculous. There were several wasted picks, Loic Leduc comes to mind, when there were way more talented people still on the board (who are producing). If you look at the Isle's drafts from 2008-2012, you have to be satisfied overall, but there have been some great blunders as well.
We are regarded as having one of the better prospect pool's in the NHL. The one that comes to mind for you just got drafted THIS SUMMER. You should be patient before you pass judgement. If you wanted to make an example, I would pick a prospect drafted prior 2008. Way too early to call 2012 draft picks "wasted".

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10-23-2012, 10:29 AM
  #334
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Originally Posted by scott99 View Post
I don't put a lot of faith in the Isles scouts, especially after the debacle of the 2010 draft (Niederreiter, Nelson and Kabanov were great picks, terrible wasteful picks afterwards). Therefore the ALL D-men draft was kind of ridiculous. There were several wasted picks, Loic Leduc comes to mind, when there were way more talented people still on the board (who are producing). If you look at the Isle's drafts from 2008-2012, you have to be satisfied overall, but there have been some great blunders as well.
It might have been a surprise that Leduc was even drafted since he was rated so low.
His team in Cape Breton is terrible and he could end up the season very bad in the +/-
Unless we could see him, it's impossible to tell if he'll ever get to pro hockey. From the only
clip I have seem of him, he's tall (about 6'6"), skinny but seems to have very long arms.
Between a long stick and arms he does take up a ton of space on the ice.

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10-23-2012, 10:43 AM
  #335
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Originally Posted by StumpNYI View Post
We are regarded as having one of the better prospect pool's in the NHL. The one that comes to mind for you just got drafted THIS SUMMER. You should be patient before you pass judgement. If you wanted to make an example, I would pick a prospect drafted prior 2008. Way too early to call 2012 draft picks "wasted".
Loic Leduc, a 6-6 fighter that sucks at fighting. Terrible draft choice.

Guys we could have drafted

Gemel Smith -Center 2012-13 Owen Sound Attack OHL 11 4 7 11
Andreas Athanasiou- LW 2012-13 Barrie Colts OHL 13 6 8 14
Zachary Stepan -Center 2012-13 Waterloo Black Hawks USHL 7 3 6 9
Alexander Delnov- LW 2012-13 Seattle Thunderbirds WHL 8 4 5 9
Calle Anderson- Defense 2012-13 Farjestads BK Karlstad SEL 10 0 0 0 (rated 3rd round or higher, way higher than Leduc)
Mikko Vainonen- Defense 2012-13 Kingston Frontenacs OHL 11 1 3 4 (also highly rated compared to Leduc)

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10-23-2012, 11:06 AM
  #336
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Just FYI, lifted from the Prospects section -

Grant Sonier's (ESPN) Top-20 Prospects Outside of the NHL

Quote:
1. Evgeny Kuznetsov
2. Nail Yakupov
3. Morgan Rielly
4. Jonathan Huberdeau
5. Dougie Hamilton
6. Mikael Granlund
7. Griffin Reinhart
8. Alex Galchenyuk
9. Ryan Strome
10. Justin Schultz
11. Andrei Vasilevski
12. Charlie Coyle
13. Sven Baertschi
14. Vladimir Tarasenko
15. Ryan Murray
16. Mika Zibanejad
17. Mark Scheifele
18. Nick Bjugstad
19. Jonas Brodin
20. Radek Faksa
In any case, nice to see our boys getting recognized.

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10-23-2012, 11:06 AM
  #337
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Originally Posted by scott99 View Post
Loic Leduc, a 6-6 fighter that sucks at fighting. Terrible draft choice.

Guys we could have drafted

Gemel Smith -Center 2012-13 Owen Sound Attack OHL 11 4 7 11
Andreas Athanasiou- LW 2012-13 Barrie Colts OHL 13 6 8 14
Zachary Stepan -Center 2012-13 Waterloo Black Hawks USHL 7 3 6 9
Alexander Delnov- LW 2012-13 Seattle Thunderbirds WHL 8 4 5 9
Calle Anderson- Defense 2012-13 Farjestads BK Karlstad SEL 10 0 0 0 (rated 3rd round or higher, way higher than Leduc)
Mikko Vainonen- Defense 2012-13 Kingston Frontenacs OHL 11 1 3 4 (also highly rated compared to Leduc)
Questionable pick, sure, but not wasted. Not yet. Not looking great now but nobody knows where any of these guys will end up.

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10-23-2012, 11:29 AM
  #338
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It's probably moot, but I do kind of wonder right now, seeing as how de Haan is out again for what is looking like a problem that will forever plague him, whether his shoulder problem history didn't already play a role in the 7 Dmen being taken this summer?

Na, even if it did, it was ever so slight a role.

Still can't really get over seeing one position being taken throughout the whole draft. I don't know where I read it or heard it (right after the draft, maybe IslesTV or IPB or something), where the Islander representative (I thought it was a scout) was asked if the club was targeting only defenseman and the answer was (and I'm paraphrasing), "No, we were just taking the BPP every time we were up to bat. That just happened to be all defensemen in this case."

Uhhh, ya, I'm not really buying that, especially not with a few high schoolers in the bunch.

Be that as it may, I found it interesting that that need was directly addressed and it may lend creedance to at the least the thought that Snow has something up his sleeve on the trade front. But even if he does, is de Haan's injury now going to be a direct thorn in the side of those plans?
I don't think the Isles drafted all defenseman because of de Haan's injury. After all, just about every defenseman we drafted, excluding Pelech and maybe Reinhart, is going to have to go through 3-6 years of development before being NHL if at all, de Haan's injury is going to affect the team now.

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10-23-2012, 11:35 AM
  #339
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I stand corrected, he was born Jul 3rd 1993, is only 19 years old, so he's eligible. I'm surprised he's horrible on big ice, he looks like a good skater. Also, he must have been highly thought of in Russia,was a high draft choice in the KHL. I'm surprised by that info kuwo.
Well I personally would like to see him playing there, but some quotes from russian posters in the topic about WJC Russian roster (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...1072235&page=4) aren't very nice...

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10-23-2012, 11:37 AM
  #340
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I don't think the Isles drafted all defenseman because of de Haan's injury. After all, just about every defenseman we drafted, excluding Pelech and maybe Reinhart, is going to have to go through 3-6 years of development before being NHL if at all, de Haan's injury is going to affect the team now.
No, no, no, of couse not... certainly not (solely) 'because of' de Haan's injury history.

Just wondering if it was something that was in the back of Snow's/the staff's minds as part of their decision-making?

... I guess the curiosity is more about if they've already been having serious doubts about whether the shoulder(s) will ever become a non-issue for de Haan?

Another thing I wonder:
What did the Isles think of Morgan Rielly? They took Reinhart ahead of him and it seems like the hockey world is currently going goo-goo, gaa-gaa about Rielly being some non-plus-ultra defensive prospect with oh so much upside (the Sonier list above seems to feel the same way). Did the Isles share the same regards for him that they did for Reinhart, but felt many of Rielly's supposed two-way qualities were too akin to what the system already has in de Haan, and perhaps Donovan?

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10-23-2012, 12:15 PM
  #341
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Originally Posted by Chapin Landvogt View Post
No, no, no, of couse not... certainly not (solely) 'because of' de Haan's injury history.

Just wondering if it was something that was in the back of Snow's/the staff's minds as part of their decision-making?

... I guess the curiosity is more about if they've already been having serious doubts about whether the shoulder(s) will ever become a non-issue for de Haan?

Another thing I wonder:
What did the Isles think of Morgan Rielly? They took Reinhart ahead of him and it seems like the hockey world is currently going goo-goo, gaa-gaa about Rielly being some non-plus-ultra defensive prospect with oh so much upside (the Sonier list above seems to feel the same way). Did the Isles share the same regards for him that they did for Reinhart, but felt many of Rielly's supposed two-way qualities were too akin to what the system already has in de Haan, and perhaps Donovan?
I would hope the NYI wouldn't draft on immediate need and on the player's relative upside.

Reilly's gotten off to a hot start, offensively, but there's NOTHING to suggest that anyone's "ahead" of anyone else just a few months after the draft. These guys have a long way to go before they are NHL players and even longer before they reach their peak as NHL players.

I HOPE that deHaan/Donovan were ZERO considerations regarding who they drafted this past June, ESPECIALLY given that NEITHER have played in the NHL. It's not like these guys were top four players already.

The Islanders have depth at ZERO POSITIONS.
They have the POTENTIAL for depth, in their prospect pipeline, that's it.

Reilly and Reinhart are different players. Reinhart's size makes him a unique commodity, even though Reilly has more offensive flair. I would like to think the way the NYI scouts did their evaluations and internal "scoring" is something they stood by at the draft and that Snow made the choice he felt was best at the time.

Tough to hold management accountable for a player's development, post-draft and injuries. Some things cannot be foreseen, just bad luck.

Keeping a player who's "not ready", on an NHL roster, watching them get killed out there - well, that's a little easier to pass judgement on - but even still, who are we to say the "other route" would have made a difference, in that specific player's case. In the end, the GM is accountable for on-ice, TEAM results, not in picking the best player, at their draft position, and maintaining that "best player status" in each subsequent month/year of that development.

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10-23-2012, 12:17 PM
  #342
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Originally Posted by Chapin Landvogt View Post
No, no, no, of couse not... certainly not (solely) 'because of' de Haan's injury history.

Just wondering if it was something that was in the back of Snow's/the staff's minds as part of their decision-making?

... I guess the curiosity is more about if they've already been having serious doubts about whether the shoulder(s) will ever become a non-issue for de Haan?

Another thing I wonder:
What did the Isles think of Morgan Rielly? They took Reinhart ahead of him and it seems like the hockey world is currently going goo-goo, gaa-gaa about Rielly being some non-plus-ultra defensive prospect with oh so much upside (the Sonier list above seems to feel the same way). Did the Isles share the same regards for him that they did for Reinhart, but felt many of Rielly's supposed two-way qualities were too akin to what the system already has in de Haan, and perhaps Donovan?
I know me personally, I liked Rielly's skillset, because we don't have anyone like that in the system. I don't think his defensive skillset will ever reach that of Reinhart's, BUT, his offensive skillset is off the charts. I would even go out on a limb, and say his offensive abilities are better than any Islander's prospect since Bryan Berard. So when we picked Reinhart, and Rielly went right after, I kinda had a sick feeling in my stomach. Just like it looks like 11 teams made a mistake not taking Grigorenko (who's tearing up the "Q"), hopefully we didn't make a mistake passing up Rielly.

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10-23-2012, 12:18 PM
  #343
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Originally Posted by Chapin Landvogt View Post
No, no, no, of couse not... certainly not (solely) 'because of' de Haan's injury history.

Just wondering if it was something that was in the back of Snow's/the staff's minds as part of their decision-making?

... I guess the curiosity is more about if they've already been having serious doubts about whether the shoulder(s) will ever become a non-issue for de Haan?

Another thing I wonder:
What did the Isles think of Morgan Rielly? They took Reinhart ahead of him and it seems like the hockey world is currently going goo-goo, gaa-gaa about Rielly being some non-plus-ultra defensive prospect with oh so much upside (the Sonier list above seems to feel the same way). Did the Isles share the same regards for him that they did for Reinhart, but felt many of Rielly's supposed two-way qualities were too akin to what the system already has in de Haan, and perhaps Donovan?
I would assume the Isles were high on Reilly as were other teams and scouts but I think it would be very hard to justify taking a high upisde defenseman who just came off a major hip surgery with a top five pick over a 6'4" defenseman with a large sample size who was a key cog in leading his team to the Memorial Cup still on the board.

If Reilly's hip continued to get injured and Reinhart developed into a steady top four defenseman it would be like fans complaining about de Haan over Kulikov 100 fold,

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10-23-2012, 12:21 PM
  #344
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Well I personally would like to see him playing there, but some quotes from russian posters in the topic about WJC Russian roster (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...1072235&page=4) aren't very nice...
Wow, some hateful words for Pedan, though looks like Malkinfan17 is a Pedan fan as well.

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10-23-2012, 12:22 PM
  #345
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Originally Posted by Chapin Landvogt View Post
No, no, no, of couse not... certainly not (solely) 'because of' de Haan's injury history.

Just wondering if it was something that was in the back of Snow's/the staff's minds as part of their decision-making?

... I guess the curiosity is more about if they've already been having serious doubts about whether the shoulder(s) will ever become a non-issue for de Haan?

Another thing I wonder:
What did the Isles think of Morgan Rielly? They took Reinhart ahead of him and it seems like the hockey world is currently going goo-goo, gaa-gaa about Rielly being some non-plus-ultra defensive prospect with oh so much upside (the Sonier list above seems to feel the same way). Did the Isles share the same regards for him that they did for Reinhart, but felt many of Rielly's supposed two-way qualities were too akin to what the system already has in de Haan, and perhaps Donovan?
I think it's a combo of things. I think Reilly is a great prospect but I think some of the hype comes from him being Toronto's 1st top pick since they lost out of Seguin and Hamilton.

If the Isles truly liked him more than Reinhart, I think they would have taken him. We are deep enough in our system defensively that even if they were concerned with his injury history, they would have taken the risk if they thought he was the better prospect, IMO.

Reinhart is a man-child. He has the size and skill combo that can allow him to truly dominate on the blue-line. They will need to be patient, but if they develop him properly he could become an absolute beast of a defenseman. A level I don't think any other defenseman in the same class could reach even if they hit their upside as well.

Rielly should be a good one, but in a few years I don't think there will be any contest between him and Big Griff.

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10-23-2012, 12:33 PM
  #346
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I think it's a combo of things. I think Reilly is a great prospect but I think some of the hype comes from him being Toronto's 1st top pick since they lost out of Seguin and Hamilton.

If the Isles truly liked him more than Reinhart, I think they would have taken him. We are deep enough in our system defensively that even if they were concerned with his injury history, they would have taken the risk if they thought he was the better prospect, IMO.

Reinhart is a man-child. He has the size and skill combo that can allow him to truly dominate on the blue-line. They will need to be patient, but if they develop him properly he could become an absolute beast of a defenseman. A level I don't think any other defenseman in the same class could reach even if they hit their upside as well.

Rielly should be a good one, but in a few years I don't think there will be any contest between him and Big Griff.
I'm thinking this is just the hype of the Leafs fans and media. If they took Griff, they would be naming him the next Pronger. Lets wait this out a few years, if Rielly struggles defensively in pro hockey, the fans and media will be the first ones to throw him under the bus, right with Kadri.

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10-23-2012, 12:45 PM
  #347
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I think it's a combo of things. I think Reilly is a great prospect but I think some of the hype comes from him being Toronto's 1st top pick since they lost out of Seguin and Hamilton.

If the Isles truly liked him more than Reinhart, I think they would have taken him. We are deep enough in our system defensively that even if they were concerned with his injury history, they would have taken the risk if they thought he was the better prospect, IMO.

Reinhart is a man-child. He has the size and skill combo that can allow him to truly dominate on the blue-line. They will need to be patient, but if they develop him properly he could become an absolute beast of a defenseman. A level I don't think any other defenseman in the same class could reach even if they hit their upside as well.

Rielly should be a good one, but in a few years I don't think there will be any contest between him and Big Griff.
Agree about the man-child. There is so much room for growth. Hopefully we have seen just a fraction of the potential total package.

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10-23-2012, 01:15 PM
  #348
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I think it's a combo of things. I think Reilly is a great prospect but I think some of the hype comes from him being Toronto's 1st top pick since they lost out of Seguin and Hamilton.
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Originally Posted by seafoam View Post
I'm thinking this is just the hype of the Leafs fans and media. If they took Griff, they would be naming him the next Pronger.
Agreed - Rielly being a Leaf pick will go a good ways in boosting that hype.

There was a thread over on the prospects board not too long ago talking about who the best defensive prospect outside the NHL is and I couldn't believe how many people there were bringing up Rielly. No doubt many of those posters were Leafs fans.

Interestingly, I saw Rielly here in Germany in the Spring of '11 and well, didn't really notice him. He just didn't really do anything of note. The talk of that tourney was the pairing of Murphy and Murray. They got the attention and they far outshined the rest of their Team Canada defensive colleagues - a Team Canada that did not medal, by the way. Not to say that O'Rielly was particularly bad or anything, but there wasn't anything special of note about him nor did he separate himself from Ceci and Koekkoek, who were also there.

Then last season he started off at a PPG pace for 18 games, got injured, then finished off with another 3 assists in 5 playoff games and suddenly, there's talk of him maybe even going ahead of Murray in the draft?

He ended up going 5th overall!

I dunno, it all just seems to have me scratching my head.

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10-23-2012, 01:34 PM
  #349
Chapin Landvogt
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Originally Posted by seafoam View Post
If Reilly's hip continued to get injured and Reinhart developed into a steady top four defenseman it would be like fans complaining about de Haan over Kulikov 100 fold,
Actually, if I had been drafting, his missed last season alone would have been enough for me to take another comparable, especially considering this group of defensemen this past summer seemed to be like a potpourri of choices.

BTW, was it his hip and an ACL tear that caused him to miss the bulk of last season?

Chapin Landvogt is offline  
Old
10-23-2012, 01:39 PM
  #350
seafoam
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chapin Landvogt View Post
Actually, if I had been drafting, his missed last season alone would have been enough for me to take another comparable, especially considering this group of defensemen this past summer seemed to be like a potpourri of choices.

BTW, was it his hip and an ACL tear that caused him to miss the bulk of last season?
Your right, it was his ACL, I think I'm thinking of Brett Connolly

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