HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Islanders
Notices

2012-2013 Prospect Talk PART IV

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
10-06-2012, 09:35 PM
  #126
blinkman360
Back to Basics
 
blinkman360's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Guido Central
Country: United States
Posts: 8,865
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Degeneration Rex View Post
Just listened to the broadcast final score was 6-3 Plymouth.
Strome did have 1 goal, assist, Graham was -3 and Theoret was a scratch.
My mistake. I thought I was reading the final.

blinkman360 is offline  
Old
10-06-2012, 09:35 PM
  #127
islandermaniac
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 3,920
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by redbull View Post
The Isles have a poor track record with player development, most recently with Bailey whom they also threw to the fire. I don't understand what they saw in Nino to suggest he could/should play in the NHL this past year.



I'd love to see Strome finish the year in Niagara and hopefully play well in the WJHC in December. That will be a great test for him, against what should be some amazing competition (if the lock-out continues)
thanks for mentioning that bit about nino because i didn't have the strength to comment on that myself. no matter how ridiculous it was to have niederreiter in the nhl last year, people still drink the nyi kool-aid about how he had nothing to prove in the whl last year...PUHLEASE!

as for strome, i'll disagree with you in one regard: i hope he doesn't finish the year in niagara. i hope he gets traded to a team that has a shot at putting on a run this spring. niagara is currently dressing 5 rookies regularly and the experienced players they do have, stink (islander draft picks theoret and graham being among the worst offenders). strome could put a solid team over the top...AND if there is a season long nhl lockout, i could see both strome AND hamilton being moved to a contender in an ohl blockbuster!!!

islandermaniac is offline  
Old
10-06-2012, 09:36 PM
  #128
PWJunior
Moderator
Beware the POOP!
 
PWJunior's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Watertown, MA
Country: United States
Posts: 13,449
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by redbull View Post
I agree with you. I like Strome but he's not close to playing in the NHL in my opinion. He wasn't a bad choice where he was drafted. He had 100+ points in his draft year as the youngest player on the team, outscoring 19 year olds by a fair margin. He's also 7 months younger than Couturier who was impressive in junior as well (96 pts two years in a row) but he was playing with vets who scored at a similar pace, players who were either undrafted or late round picks. The concern with Couturier was his max offensive upside, and it probably still is a concern. He's a talented kid who'll probably be a solid NHLer for a long time, but at the time, Strome probably had the higher offensive upside (probably still does).

In terms of the Eberle comparison? I can see why people would compare them. Both right-shots on the small side, not great skaters but good agility. Both have great hockey sense and on-ice vision, both excel in puck possession, offensive systems. Eberle has the ability to score big goals and to play best when the game's on the line, he's got that knack that seems to be innate. I don't see the same in Strome, YET, but let's give the kid a break, he's yet to play a game in the NHL.

I'd love to see Strome finish the year in Niagara and hopefully play well in the WJHC in December. That will be a great test for him, against what should be some amazing competition (if the lock-out continues)
I'm personally very pleased with Strome's development and I feel like he's right on track. The kid has been putting up the requisite numbers desired for a high draft pick since his draft year and it's clear that he's very talented. It's all about his physical maturity and progress in his complete game (as a center) IMO.

Niagara was supposed to be in a rebuilding year with big losses in personnel. Strome is the alpha dog up front and is going to be leaned on heavily this season, more than ever in his career. He has to come through in order for the Ice Dogs to be a contender. I think that's a great thing for him, you have to remember that he's still only a 19 year old kid, he doesn't turn 20 until after the season. He's obviously doing all the right things as he trains in the Dungeon with JT and company. The kid gets it done with hockey sense, vision, and sick mitts. Once his physical package matches up with his mind, he could be a really good one. We've seen it already in the progression of JT who was about 10 months older when he was drafted compared to Strome. Continue to give the kid time and I think we'll be happy.

I am also looking forward to the WJC. Strome has already established himself as one Canada's regulars. He's produced and it didn't hurt that he iced the Russia-Canada series recently. He's pretty much a lock for a top-6 center spot and will probably be reunited with Huberdeau. Should definitely be fun to watch.

I expect Strome to have a strong season and be ready to push for that 2nd center spot next season. I wouldn't mind the #1 RW spot, but that's up to the organization.

PWJunior is offline  
Old
10-06-2012, 09:41 PM
  #129
PWJunior
Moderator
Beware the POOP!
 
PWJunior's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Watertown, MA
Country: United States
Posts: 13,449
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by islandermaniac View Post
thanks for mentioning that bit about nino because i didn't have the strength to comment on that myself. no matter how ridiculous it was to have niederreiter in the nhl last year, people still drink the nyi kool-aid about how he had nothing to prove in the whl last year...PUHLEASE!

as for strome, i'll disagree with you in one regard: i hope he doesn't finish the year in niagara. i hope he gets traded to a team that has a shot at putting on a run this spring. niagara is currently dressing 5 rookies regularly and the experienced players they do have, stink (islander draft picks theoret and graham being among the worst offenders). strome could put a solid team over the top...AND if there is a season long nhl lockout, i could see both strome AND hamilton being moved to a contender in an ohl blockbuster!!!
Yeah, Niagara was supposed to be rebuilding and it would make a lot of sense to unload both Strome and Hamilton to a contender. The London Knights are supposed to be the class of the OHL, there should be many suitors for their services. Maybe we'll see another post-WJC trade ala Tavares in 2009.

PWJunior is offline  
Old
10-06-2012, 09:43 PM
  #130
islandermaniac
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 3,920
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PWJunior View Post
I am also looking forward to the WJC. Strome has already established himself as one Canada's regulars. He's produced and it didn't hurt that he iced the Russia-Canada series recently. He's pretty much a lock for a top-6 center spot and will probably be reunited with Huberdeau. Should definitely be fun to watch.
just want to throw it out there that in the event of a long lasting lockout, nugent-hopkins could be allowed to play in the wjc which might throw a monkey wrench into that. if the lockout does continue, i certainly HOPE strome is given that top 6 opportunity you speak of because he would be doing it on what would be one of the best canadian wjc teams ever iced.

islandermaniac is offline  
Old
10-06-2012, 09:45 PM
  #131
islandermaniac
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 3,920
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PWJunior View Post
Yeah, Niagara was supposed to be rebuilding and it would make a lot of sense to unload both Strome and Hamilton to a contender. The London Knights are supposed to be the class of the OHL, there should be many suitors for their services. Maybe we'll see another post-WJC trade ala Tavares in 2009.
a continued lockout would be an absolute god send for niagara! to think they could have lost each player to the nhl and received nothing! a lockout would allow them to get back HUGE pieces for their rebuild.

islandermaniac is offline  
Old
10-06-2012, 10:49 PM
  #132
Degeneration Rex
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Upstate,New York
Country: United States
Posts: 3,169
vCash: 500
Saturday
Cape Breton 5, Val d'Or 3-Leduc, even.
Owen Sound 4, Guelph 3 (SO)-Pedan, even.
London 4, Erie 3 (SO)-Pelech 1 assist, -1.
Edmonton 4, Saskatoon 1-Reinhart, even.
Spokane 4, Lethbridge 2-Kichton, 1 assist, -1.


Last edited by Degeneration Rex: 10-07-2012 at 06:01 AM.
Degeneration Rex is online now  
Old
10-07-2012, 07:15 AM
  #133
BillD
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 7,087
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by islandermaniac View Post
thanks for mentioning that bit about nino because i didn't have the strength to comment on that myself. no matter how ridiculous it was to have niederreiter in the nhl last year, people still drink the nyi kool-aid about how he had nothing to prove in the whl last year...PUHLEASE!

as for strome, i'll disagree with you in one regard: i hope he doesn't finish the year in niagara. i hope he gets traded to a team that has a shot at putting on a run this spring. niagara is currently dressing 5 rookies regularly and the experienced players they do have, stink (islander draft picks theoret and graham being among the worst offenders). strome could put a solid team over the top...AND if there is a season long nhl lockout, i could see both strome AND hamilton being moved to a contender in an ohl blockbuster!!!
Stromer has intrinsic skillset that should translate well to the NHL. His hands, vision, hockey sense are upper level He needs to add skating improvement and size strength to allow the skills to be applied. He may not get to the level of Giroux, but he is the same type player and will be a bigger body.
It has been said before that Nino needs a creative center to get him the puck and create chances for him to be productive. Without that creative center Nino struggles. IDK who his center was in the WJC in his draft year, but over the next two seasons he benefitted by being on Ryan Johanson's wing. Nino is no lock to pan out in the NHL as a scoring winger of any consequence, however, the possibility that he could be paired with one of Tavares or Strome should be the key that unlocks his potential more than any other ordinary scoring winger we might have.

BillD is offline  
Old
10-07-2012, 08:39 AM
  #134
Chapin Landvogt
Hockey's Future Staff
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Germany
Posts: 12,252
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by blinkman360 View Post
Why? I get that Couturier looked good last year, but it's not like he set the world on fire with his 27 points. I do expect him to become a consistent 60-70 point, world-class 2-way 2nd line center, but IMO it's still very possible for Strome to surpass that level. Especially if his future here is as a RW to Tavares.
What I personally am having as a problem is the Islanders' thought pattern when it comes to taking first rounders (and 2nds for that matter).

I love their drafting as of the 3rd round. I think they're amongst the best in the league when it comes to that.

What I don't understand though is the decision-making process when it comes to a top 7 pick. I don't like them deciding to be 'different' than conventional wisdom and they haven't yet proven to be better. Also, I don't think it makes that big a difference that they take a guy who's amongst the youngest in his draft class. That is something they tend to do and some people praise it. Why?

This is a team that needs kids here sooner than later - not that I advocate rushing players, but I still cannot see what the sense was in taking Niederreiter ahead of Fowler and Strome ahead of Couturier. In both cases, we're talking about kids who had spent three years in the spotlight and then suffered solely to the doggone overanalyzation that sets in over the last three months of every draft. Both have stepped right into the NHL and - although far from complete - show that they can already contribute at this level while holding plenty of promise for the future. Both by the way are bigger and better skaters than the two boys we took.

Instead, we have a kid who just scored 1 goal in 55 games while mostly being used in a 4th line capacity and another one who indeed has promise, but neither size, speed or that extra gear.

In general, the only no-brainer our team has taken since Snow took over the helm is Tavares. Accordingly, he's the only one living up to the hype and expectations.

It doesn't mean the others won't or that there isn't some amount of good reason why they were taken where they were, but we have a habit of leaving heavily hyped and further developed (and internationally proven) players on the table for young guys who only first hit the spotlight in the year of their draft.

I call poppycock on this practice.

Quote:
Bottom line, let's at least wait to see what this kid does at the NHL level before we shake our head at the selection(and please, let's not label him a bust if he doesn't light up the league in his rookie year). Who knows, in the end maybe Snow made the right pick.
To be frank, no-one is labeling him or our other first rounders a bust. That's also not a term that should be used lightly. It is however perfectly legitimate to think that Strome, in his fourth year of OHL play, should be able to show offensive domination considering what we left on the table to take him as a player whose key contribution is expected to be the generation of offense.

10 points in 7 games is OK, but as I wrote above, a guy with Strome's profile should be hitting the 100 point mark by game 55. That's not the pace he's on at the moment.

The season is young, but I'm not enthusiastic about it thus far...

Chapin Landvogt is offline  
Old
10-07-2012, 08:44 AM
  #135
Chapin Landvogt
Hockey's Future Staff
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Germany
Posts: 12,252
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by StrongIslanders90 View Post
IMO Kichton should really be in BPORT. He had two dominating offensive years the past two seasons and now hes in his 5th year in junior. He should be learning the defensive side against the pros in the AHL....
I'd like to see him there.

I'd like to just see him signed.

It definitely seems like the Isles didn't feel the need to sign him with the lockout looming.

I agree though that he's likely 'ready' for the next step.

Chapin Landvogt is offline  
Old
10-07-2012, 08:55 AM
  #136
Chapin Landvogt
Hockey's Future Staff
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Germany
Posts: 12,252
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by redbull View Post
The Isles have a poor track record with player development, most recently with Bailey whom they also threw to the fire. I don't understand what they saw in Nino to suggest he could/should play in the NHL this past year.
Indeed. We all know that other bodies - preferrably real NHLers - should be here. In fact, even if they just want to go the cheap route, I don't why they don't just grab a few mid-twenties guys from Europe who are coming off big seasons there. Every year there are two handfuls worth of ex-draft picks or guys who have just developed late or are like 30+ and have been big scorers for several years running.

Why not just bring in a few of them as plug-ins instead of throwing the kids to the wolves? Maybe they'd even hit the jackpot? Maybe those guys would do just enough to be nice trading pieces at the trade deadline?

Whatever, they'd give space at a decent price to allow our kids to mature properly, possibly even overmature.

Quote:
The concern with Couturier was his max offensive upside, and it probably still is a concern. He's a talented kid who'll probably be a solid NHLer for a long time, but at the time, Strome probably had the higher offensive upside (probably still does).
Hindsight is always 20/20, but last season we saw a guy who can play a two-way game and get his nose dirty. Even if he looks like he'll only be a 50-65 point guy down the line, one's got to wonder if it isn't EXACTLY THAT which our Isles should be wanting to back up Tavares over the long run. A 20-30-50 shutdown center who is 6'3"? I can't imagine anything better.

Quote:
In terms of the Eberle comparison? I can see why people would compare them. Both right-shots on the small side, not great skaters but good agility. Both have great hockey sense and on-ice vision, both excel in puck possession, offensive systems. Eberle has the ability to score big goals and to play best when the game's on the line, he's got that knack that seems to be innate. I don't see the same in Strome, YET, but let's give the kid a break, he's yet to play a game in the NHL.
It might just be me bringing up Eberle in the same breath, but I'm willing to bet big time that our front office IS expecting Strome to be that kind of impact player for our Isles. They did not draft him thinking he'll be a nice little Matt Cullen type player. He's in the system so as to be a scorer.

I'm sure we all agree on that. Hopefully, when he's got better scorers to work with, his true hands and creativity will have him producing as wished for.

Chapin Landvogt is offline  
Old
10-07-2012, 09:20 AM
  #137
steveat
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,785
vCash: 500
Is Petrov still playing for Akbars? I am watching the game and can't find him and I looked up the team on the KHL main site and went to the team site and he doesn't seem to be anywhere?

Also..I noticed one other player on the Akbars..amazing puck posession. Janne Pesonen He is an older guy '82, but man...the guy has hands. I even looked up his NHL history..not much and it's not like he didnt score. Broke AHL record adjusting and score 2 points in 3 games for pitts. This is the type of guy we could use.

steveat is offline  
Old
10-07-2012, 10:14 AM
  #138
Chapin Landvogt
Hockey's Future Staff
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Germany
Posts: 12,252
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by steveat View Post
Is Petrov still playing for Akbars? I am watching the game and can't find him and I looked up the team on the KHL main site and went to the team site and he doesn't seem to be anywhere?

Also..I noticed one other player on the Akbars..amazing puck posession. Janne Pesonen He is an older guy '82, but man...the guy has hands. I even looked up his NHL history..not much and it's not like he didnt score. Broke AHL record adjusting and score 2 points in 3 games for pitts. This is the type of guy we could use.
Pesonen is EXACTLY the type of guy the Islanders should have had hanging around while kids like Bailey, Niederreiter, etc. were developing properly in juniors, as they should have been.

It wouldn't have hurt taking a chance on 2-4 guys of this nature over the past few years.

As for Petrov, hmmmm, eliteprospects says he's played 10 games for Kazan and has 3-2-5 with a +7.
http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=11870

Maybe he's just not in today's game for some reason?

Chapin Landvogt is offline  
Old
10-07-2012, 10:31 AM
  #139
Jester9881
Registered User
 
Jester9881's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Long Island NY
Posts: 5,445
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chapin Landvogt View Post
I could care less what last year was. There have been plenty of years where 3rd/4th year players expected to be big offensive producers at the NHL level one day have averaged 2+ points per game at the CHL level. He's in his fourth year there and even if the talent level of the league has been impacted (i.e. raised) by the lockout, I have been given the impression to date that he's a 'dominant' offensive player. I mean our staff DID take him on one year of promise over Couturier's three years of proven ability, right? Which of those two was contributing to an NHL playoff team last year?

So at this juncture, I want a little more assurance about the wisdom of that choice...

Heck, at this juncture, I'm even wondering about the wisdom of having taken Strome over Baertschi, but I digress...

As for expectations I'll put it like this: If Strome is what he is touted to be, much less as good as he is touted to be, he will be one of the OHL's top 5 scorers this year. I thoroughly expect nothing less than 100 points if he manages to play 55 games this season. Just about anything else would be a disappointment in light of what he was picked to do one day - namely generate offense.

Considering neither his size nor his speed can be placed in the 'above average' category, the 8 points in 6 games thus far is too 'meh' for my taste.
Let me see if I'v got this correct. You want Ryan Strome to out preform John Tavares when he was in his 4th year? You want him to do something that JT only managed to do once in those 4 years (2ppg).

Am I reading this right?

Jester9881 is offline  
Old
10-07-2012, 10:32 AM
  #140
kuwo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: SVK
Posts: 482
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chapin Landvogt View Post
Pesonen is EXACTLY the type of guy the Islanders should have had hanging around while kids like Bailey, Niederreiter, etc. were developing properly in juniors, as they should have been.

It wouldn't have hurt taking a chance on 2-4 guys of this nature over the past few years.

As for Petrov, hmmmm, eliteprospects says he's played 10 games for Kazan and has 3-2-5 with a +7.
http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=11870

Maybe he's just not in today's game for some reason?
Actually, he (Petrov) scored Ak Bars' first goal today...

http://text.khl.ru/en/34458.html

kuwo is offline  
Old
10-07-2012, 11:22 AM
  #141
steveat
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,785
vCash: 500
I dono..I went to look ath their players:

http://www.khl.ru/clubs/ak-bars

Maybe I am looking on the wrong page? There is a petrov on the team, but not Kirill

steveat is offline  
Old
10-07-2012, 11:29 AM
  #142
kuwo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: SVK
Posts: 482
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by steveat View Post
I dono..I went to look ath their players:

http://www.khl.ru/clubs/ak-bars

Maybe I am looking on the wrong page? There is a petrov on the team, but not Kirill
He is there...number 90...

kuwo is offline  
Old
10-07-2012, 12:00 PM
  #143
blinkman360
Back to Basics
 
blinkman360's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Guido Central
Country: United States
Posts: 8,865
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chapin Landvogt View Post
Indeed. We all know that other bodies - preferrably real NHLers - should be here. In fact, even if they just want to go the cheap route, I don't why they don't just grab a few mid-twenties guys from Europe who are coming off big seasons there. Every year there are two handfuls worth of ex-draft picks or guys who have just developed late or are like 30+ and have been big scorers for several years running.

Why not just bring in a few of them as plug-ins instead of throwing the kids to the wolves? Maybe they'd even hit the jackpot? Maybe those guys would do just enough to be nice trading pieces at the trade deadline?

Whatever, they'd give space at a decent price to allow our kids to mature properly, possibly even overmature.



Hindsight is always 20/20, but last season we saw a guy who can play a two-way game and get his nose dirty. Even if he looks like he'll only be a 50-65 point guy down the line, one's got to wonder if it isn't EXACTLY THAT which our Isles should be wanting to back up Tavares over the long run. A 20-30-50 shutdown center who is 6'3"? I can't imagine anything better.



It might just be me bringing up Eberle in the same breath, but I'm willing to bet big time that our front office IS expecting Strome to be that kind of impact player for our Isles. They did not draft him thinking he'll be a nice little Matt Cullen type player. He's in the system so as to be a scorer.

I'm sure we all agree on that. Hopefully, when he's got better scorers to work with, his true hands and creativity will have him producing as wished for.
I agree with pretty much everything you wrote, but I think it comes down to the fact that the draft is a crapshoot pretty much any way you slice it.

Back in the early 2000's, the Isles took a lot of safe picks. Guys like Bergenheim, Nokelainen, O'Marra. There wasn't much upside there. Bergie and Nokie are solid bottom-6ers, while O'Marra looks to be a career AHLer. I think they've now turned their focus to taking guys with upside early in the draft, or at least in the 1st round.

Bailey, Nino, Nelson, Strome. All of these guys are far from safe picks, but all have extremely high ceilings(you could argue that Bailey doesn't belong here, but I still think he has extremely high potential. He is one of the best playmakers on this team, has a pretty underrated shot and is developing a sound 2-way game).

The only real questionable pick here, IMO, was the Nino pick in 2010. Fowler seemed like the obvious choice, but I think the fact that deHaan was taken the year prior as well as the obvious upside that Nino could bring as a top-6 power forward was too good for the Isles and Snow to pass up. I don't have a problem with it, although I would have been just as happy with a guy like Fowler. I still have high expectations for Nino, and wouldn't be surprised if he still turns into that 1st-line PF playing with JT.

Strome is the only thing I disagree with you on. At the time of the draft, most mocks and rankings that I saw had him ranked in or very close to the top-5. Most had Couturier ahead, but as the draft approached he started to slightly slip. I don't think Snow taking Strome where he did was an off-the-board type pick. I can't remember who they were, but whoever was commentating on the draft actually called and praised Snow for the pick. On top of that, I can't discount what influence Tavares may have had in this pick. I know they are both from the same town and they both train together, so it's possible he had some say in this decision.

As far as the points go, I don't really read too far into that. I'd rather Strome try to work on the weak aspects of his game than try to prove he can offensively dominate a league that he's already dominated. I'm sure he knows that his time in the NHL is near, and I'm sure he's using this time in the OHL as an opportunity to make some final tweaks to his game before he gets the call.

Either way, I can't complain with how these past few drafts have turned out. As long as these guys develop and produce, giving this team a chance to win a Cup, I won't mind if we passed up on better options. IMO, this team is in extraordinary shape going forward. Maybe the brighest our future has looked since 2000, right before we traded everyone and everything away for essentially DP and Yashin. I'm genuinely excited about this team's potential.

blinkman360 is offline  
Old
10-07-2012, 12:02 PM
  #144
steveat
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,785
vCash: 500
What do you guys think of john persson..He's already man size and he can score. I'd love to give him a shot in the big club for 9 games..hmm..we are totally gonna be jammed packed come next year when the season starts new...I don't know if this is gonna be a short lockout...

We have some real good talent ready for the big leagues next year.

steveat is offline  
Old
10-07-2012, 05:36 PM
  #145
Degeneration Rex
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Upstate,New York
Country: United States
Posts: 3,169
vCash: 500
Sunday

Val d'Or 7, Cape Breton 3-Leduc, -1
Calgary 6, Edmonton 5 (OT) Reinhart, even.

Degeneration Rex is online now  
Old
10-07-2012, 07:35 PM
  #146
leaponover
Registered User
 
leaponover's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Iskan, S. Korea
Country: South Korea
Posts: 2,476
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chapin Landvogt View Post
Pesonen is EXACTLY the type of guy the Islanders should have had hanging around while kids like Bailey, Niederreiter, etc. were developing properly in juniors, as they should have been.

It wouldn't have hurt taking a chance on 2-4 guys of this nature over the past few years.

As for Petrov, hmmmm, eliteprospects says he's played 10 games for Kazan and has 3-2-5 with a +7.
http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=11870

Maybe he's just not in today's game for some reason?
I know you were one of the guys last season who mentioned that these eastern world players would be good to take a flyer on as a stop gap for our youngsters to develop. Now that I am paying more attention to the foreign lineups I'd have to agree with you. At first I think I questioned the motive, but now I hope this opens the eyes to management and they see the potential.

leaponover is offline  
Old
10-08-2012, 07:15 AM
  #147
Chapin Landvogt
Hockey's Future Staff
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Germany
Posts: 12,252
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester9881 View Post
Let me see if I'v got this correct. You want Ryan Strome to out preform John Tavares when he was in his 4th year? You want him to do something that JT only managed to do once in those 4 years (2ppg).

Am I reading this right?
I'd like Strome to spend his last season of juniors doing what guys like Spezza, Lecavalier, Thornton, Ribeiro, Kane and heck, even Robbie Schremp and Sam Gagner did in their last CHL years.

Of course, if Strome had pumped in 72 goals as a 16/17 year old, I wouldn't have cared much and would currently be arguing that he has nothing left to prove at the junior level.

A guy like Emerson Etem would, for example, not have anything currently left to prove individually at the CHL level. As I understand it, folks in coastal Virginia will get to enjoy his talents in short.

Again, I think that if Strome's as good as he's s been hyped up to be, then getting 100 points in 55 games shouldn't be too difficult. That would be 1.8 PPG clip.

Naturally, junior pointage isn't the end all, say all. But I'm talking to an intelligent audience here, so y'all know what I'm getting at.

Chapin Landvogt is offline  
Old
10-08-2012, 07:19 AM
  #148
Chapin Landvogt
Hockey's Future Staff
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Germany
Posts: 12,252
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by steveat View Post
What do you guys think of john persson..He's already man size and he can score. I'd love to give him a shot in the big club for 9 games..hmm..
One of the big question marks and one of the most interesting stories to follow in BPort this season.

Truly, truly don't know what to expect of him. I do NOT think his 4-4-8 in 12 AHL games to end last season is indicative of what to expect over an 80 game schedule. I think the BPort crew is hoping for solid play and improvement in all facets while still pumping in 15-20-35 this year.

In general, with little 'proven' scoring on the club, this BPort team really has to hope that it throw three offensively effective lines on the ice.

Chapin Landvogt is offline  
Old
10-08-2012, 07:55 AM
  #149
Chapin Landvogt
Hockey's Future Staff
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Germany
Posts: 12,252
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by blinkman360 View Post
I agree with pretty much everything you wrote, but I think it comes down to the fact that the draft is a crapshoot pretty much any way you slice it.
Agreed, although I do feel the first 7-10 picks are generally THE closest thing to surefire future NHLers that you can get out of this crapshoot (like, no duh.:-)), and we've had a lot of those in recent years.

Quote:
Back in the early 2000's, the Isles took a lot of safe picks. Guys like Bergenheim, Nokelainen, O'Marra. There wasn't much upside there. Bergie and Nokie are solid bottom-6ers, while O'Marra looks to be a career AHLer. I think they've now turned their focus to taking guys with upside early in the draft, or at least in the 1st round.
I honestly don't know how Snow would proceed with picks around spots 15-20. I hope we find out by no sooner than the next draft AFTER a season of play. None of this percentage ball draft crap that allows some team like Pittsburgh, Philly or LA get a top 3 pick.

Quote:
Bailey, Nino, Nelson, Strome. All of these guys are far from safe picks, but all have extremely high ceilings(you could argue that Bailey doesn't belong here, but I still think he has extremely high potential. He is one of the best playmakers on this team, has a pretty underrated shot and is developing a sound 2-way game).
Agreed, whereas I think it's gonna be a long time coming before we get any real indication of that ceiling.

Quote:
The only real questionable pick here, IMO, was the Nino pick in 2010. Fowler seemed like the obvious choice, but I think the fact that deHaan was taken the year prior as well as the obvious upside that Nino could bring as a top-6 power forward was too good for the Isles and Snow to pass up. I don't have a problem with it, although I would have been just as happy with a guy like Fowler. I still have high expectations for Nino, and wouldn't be surprised if he still turns into that 1st-line PF playing with JT.
Nino can still be a goodin'. One is right to question his choice though. As a youngin', he had just arrived on the scene with less than a PPG average in Portland and had one really terrific game at the WJC. That kind of put him on the map. For my money, not only was Fowler the clearcut choice based on his natural skillset, but also on BOATLOADS of achievements. He had won it all in the CHL and at the WJC. He had been touted for years. Put him aside, I would have also gone with either Granlund or Skinner. What Granlund did in the SM-Liiga was downright Koivian. Skinner didn't exactly JUST arrive on the scene his draft year, but did - like Nino - move up the rankings considerably. Unlike Nino, he had truly outstanding numbers and a MEGA-playoffs. He looked like a winner with a true nose for the net to me, even at that time.

Quote:
Strome is the only thing I disagree with you on. At the time of the draft, most mocks and rankings that I saw had him ranked in or very close to the top-5. Most had Couturier ahead, but as the draft approached he started to slightly slip. I don't think Snow taking Strome where he did was an off-the-board type pick.
No it wasn't. Nor would I say it was. I have however been arguing for some time now that the players who have been looked at as top draftpick contenders for years in advance of their draft often get overscrutinized and surpassed a bit by pieces that, for 3 or 4 months, become shinier. It happens just about every year now.

Duchene almost surpassed Tavares. Fowler fell. Couturier fell. Look where Forsberg and Grigorenko went this past summer.

Although not alone, we have been guilty of also letting such pieces pass us by, with only Tavares being the exception.

I liked Strome a lot as a pick and was into his possibilities. My rational side however never failed in saying that Couturier was the NO-BRAINER as the sixth pick. Still, going into the draft, I'd have been shocked to see our Isles take him. Just didn't seem like the Snow type.

Quote:
I can't discount what influence Tavares may have had in this pick. I know they are both from the same town and they both train together, so it's possible he had some say in this decision.
It probably played the most decisive role...

Quote:
As far as the points go, I don't really read too far into that. I'd rather Strome try to work on the weak aspects of his game than try to prove he can offensively dominate a league that he's already dominated. I'm sure he knows that his time in the NHL is near, and I'm sure he's using this time in the OHL as an opportunity to make some final tweaks to his game before he gets the call.
Fair enough, although I want Strome to be a scorer and solely a scorer when he gets here. Truth be told, aside from the last 20 games of the season, when Okposo and Bailey suddenly came to life again, we were a one-trick pony and that HAS TO CHANGE. Strome is the most likely internal candidate to bring that change. I want to be convinced of that now.

Quote:
Either way, I can't complain with how these past few drafts have turned out. As long as these guys develop and produce, giving this team a chance to win a Cup, I won't mind if we passed up on better options.... I'm genuinely excited about this team's potential.
As we all are... Aside from 2010, where we nonetheless got Nino, Nelson and Kabanov, I am very happy with the later rounds of our drafts. Just wish the first two rounds had been more impactful to date, but good things are always worth waiting for.

Chapin Landvogt is offline  
Old
10-08-2012, 08:14 AM
  #150
Jester9881
Registered User
 
Jester9881's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Long Island NY
Posts: 5,445
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chapin Landvogt View Post

Again, I think that if Strome's as good as he's s been hyped up to be, then getting 100 points in 55 games shouldn't be too difficult. That would be 1.8 PPG clip.
All I wanted to know. And I disagree. You're asking this kid to put up JT numbers and he just doesn't possess that talent, not many do.

Further, if you look at his numbers objectively last season, he actually improved quite a bit. I do agree though, that numbers aren't the end all be all.... Rob Schremp is all that needs to be said on that front.

Jester9881 is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:38 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.