HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Islanders
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

2012-2013 Prospect Talk PART IV

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
10-16-2012, 09:56 AM
  #201
Chapin Landvogt
Hockey's Future Staff
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Germany
Posts: 12,680
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by blinkman360 View Post
I don't understand? Most on that list are defensemen, and most of the defensemen on that list weren't drafted by us to put up points. I suppose Graham should be, but honestly, we are so deep at defense that it really doesn't matter, IMO.

Aside from that, Mayfield hasn't even played a game yet, and Lee and Russo have only played in two(in which Lee has 2 points).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott99
Agree with everything you said, just didn't know how to say it as eloquently as you without showing anger to the OP who obviously was trying to get a response.
Hmmm...

I didn't actually make a criticism or direct comment. I wrote "For my taste, only Kichton and Pelech are doing anything worth noting on this list."

Everyone else on the list is doing what is expected or less.

And if you wish to interpret any statement out of that, then it should be that pretty much no-one is 'excelling'.

Because, uhhhh, that's the case thus far.

If you'd like to continue discussing Strome from our prior conversation, well he's pretty much on pace for 42-42-84 in 66 games. If you think this is strong or a good thing, so be it. I see it as a bit disappointing and I stated a few pages back what I expect of him this season. There's still plenty of time and hopefully a WJC appearance, so he might pick things up or become somewhat more offensively dominating - which I understand to be his calling card - as the season progresses.

Chapin Landvogt is offline  
Old
10-16-2012, 10:19 AM
  #202
scott99
Registered User
 
scott99's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 7,859
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chapin Landvogt View Post
Hmmm...

I didn't actually make a criticism or direct comment. I wrote "For my taste, only Kichton and Pelech are doing anything worth noting on this list."

Everyone else on the list is doing what is expected or less.

And if you wish to interpret any statement out of that, then it should be that pretty much no-one is 'excelling'.

Because, uhhhh, that's the case thus far.

If you'd like to continue discussing Strome from our prior conversation, well he's pretty much on pace for 42-42-84 in 66 games. If you think this is strong or a good thing, so be it. I see it as a bit disappointing and I stated a few pages back what I expect of him this season. There's still plenty of time and hopefully a WJC appearance, so he might pick things up or become somewhat more offensively dominating - which I understand to be his calling card - as the season progresses.
Just remember Chapin, no matter how good/great a player is, they can't do it alone. Niagara is not a good team, it's basically Strome and Hamilton carrying that team. It seems like they aren't scoring a lot, so it's tough to pile up the points is the team isn't scoring. Last year's team was way better with more talent. Not making excuses, but it is what it is.


Last edited by scott99: 10-16-2012 at 10:26 AM.
scott99 is offline  
Old
10-16-2012, 12:55 PM
  #203
Degeneration Rex
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Upstate,New York
Country: United States
Posts: 4,578
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by scott99 View Post
Just remember Chapin, no matter how good/great a player is, they can't do it alone. Niagara is not a good team, it's basically Strome and Hamilton carrying that team. It seems like they aren't scoring a lot, so it's tough to pile up the points is the team isn't scoring. Last year's team was way better with more talent. Not making excuses, but it is what it is.
I went to the OHL site and saw a highlight of Strome's game tying goal against Windsor
from Sunday and is was big league. Strome is 8th in the OHL scoring which isn't bad.
The things we want to see are improved skating, strength, face-offs defensive play
and it's getting better so he's doing what he supposed to. Agree with you Scott,
there a lot more than just the point total. Niagara is likely to trade Strome to a contender
later in the year.

Degeneration Rex is online now  
Old
10-16-2012, 12:59 PM
  #204
Degeneration Rex
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Upstate,New York
Country: United States
Posts: 4,578
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by scott99 View Post
Niagara sure does stink this year. Erie continues its awful play from last year.
Erie is playing at London Friday night. Game will be on NHL Network but I don't know yet if
it is live or will be on tape delay.

At least Erie has McDavid.

Degeneration Rex is online now  
Old
10-16-2012, 01:01 PM
  #205
scott99
Registered User
 
scott99's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 7,859
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Degeneration Rex View Post
I went to the OHL site and saw a highlight of Strome's game tying goal against Windsor
from Sunday and is was big league. Strome is 8th in the OHL scoring which isn't bad.
The things we want to see are improved skating, strength, face-offs defensive play
and it's getting better so he's doing what he supposed to. Agree with you Scott,
there a lot more than just the point total. Niagara is likely to trade Strome to a contenderlater in the year.
Remember when Tavares got traded from lowly Oshawa to the London Knights ? Man what a difference.

2008-09 Oshawa Generals OHL 32 26 28 54 32 5 -- -- -- -- --
2008-09 London Knights OHL 24 32 18 50 22 5

He went from averaging 1.69 to 2.08, hell, he scored 6 more goals in 8 less games w/London.

scott99 is offline  
Old
10-16-2012, 01:14 PM
  #206
Degeneration Rex
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Upstate,New York
Country: United States
Posts: 4,578
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by scott99 View Post
Remember when Tavares got traded from lowly Oshawa to the London Knights ? Man what a difference.

2008-09 Oshawa Generals OHL 32 26 28 54 32 5 -- -- -- -- --
2008-09 London Knights OHL 24 32 18 50 22 5

He went from averaging 1.69 to 2.08, hell, he scored 6 more goals in 8 less games w/London.
Yes, JT went wild and Strome could go to London since they are the top contender in
the OHL.

Degeneration Rex is online now  
Old
10-16-2012, 03:29 PM
  #207
blinkman360
Norris
 
blinkman360's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Lawn Guyland
Country: United States
Posts: 9,984
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chapin Landvogt View Post
Hmmm...

I didn't actually make a criticism or direct comment. I wrote "For my taste, only Kichton and Pelech are doing anything worth noting on this list."

Everyone else on the list is doing what is expected or less.

And if you wish to interpret any statement out of that, then it should be that pretty much no-one is 'excelling'.

Because, uhhhh, that's the case thus far.

If you'd like to continue discussing Strome from our prior conversation, well he's pretty much on pace for 42-42-84 in 66 games. If you think this is strong or a good thing, so be it. I see it as a bit disappointing and I stated a few pages back what I expect of him this season. There's still plenty of time and hopefully a WJC appearance, so he might pick things up or become somewhat more offensively dominating - which I understand to be his calling card - as the season progresses.
I would be happy with 84 points as long as his overall game looks improved. I'd honestly prefer that to him putting up 120 and not improving any other aspects of his game.

Look at Tavares, his point totals decreased each year from his 2nd to his 4th year at the OHL level. He still put up 100+ each season, but his last year he ended at 105 which is still a very possible number for Strome to hit or at least come close to. Considering how JT has turned out, I'm not really that concerned with Strome.

blinkman360 is offline  
Old
10-16-2012, 04:56 PM
  #208
Chapin Landvogt
Hockey's Future Staff
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Germany
Posts: 12,680
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by blinkman360 View Post
I would be happy with 84 points as long as his overall game looks improved. I'd honestly prefer that to him putting up 120 and not improving any other aspects of his game.
How about score a lot AND get better in other facets of the game?

Quote:
Look at Tavares, his point totals decreased each year from his 2nd to his 4th year at the OHL level. He still put up 100+ each season, but his last year he ended at 105 which is still a very possible number for Strome to hit or at least come close to. Considering how JT has turned out, I'm not really that concerned with Strome.
And yes, this kind of thing always gives hope, but Strome didn't have the types of seasons Tavares did before getting drafted. He doesn't have Tavares' resume and proven track record.

And I'm sure no-one here wants to be telling us that they're comparing Strome to Tavares, right?

Again, we're talking about a young man who is not the biggest or fastest and who was drafted on the back of one big OHL season - arriving on the scene his draft year - ahead of no less than one junior player who had been talked about for a longer period of time, who a division rival got a lot of use out of out the NHL level already.

No big deal, I do know he's our biggest offensive prospect and obviously he's playing the main role up front for a not-so-strong club. I'll be curious to see what he can do if traded.

In general, in a season where we're not (yet) watching NHL hockey, it'd be nice to have more excitement being generated from a prospect or two.

Chapin Landvogt is offline  
Old
10-16-2012, 06:28 PM
  #209
PWJunior
That's what we do.
 
PWJunior's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Watertown, MA
Country: United States
Posts: 19,273
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chapin Landvogt View Post
How about score a lot AND get better in other facets of the game?



And yes, this kind of thing always gives hope, but Strome didn't have the types of seasons Tavares did before getting drafted. He doesn't have Tavares' resume and proven track record.

And I'm sure no-one here wants to be telling us that they're comparing Strome to Tavares, right?

Again, we're talking about a young man who is not the biggest or fastest and who was drafted on the back of one big OHL season - arriving on the scene his draft year - ahead of no less than one junior player who had been talked about for a longer period of time, who a division rival got a lot of use out of out the NHL level already.

No big deal, I do know he's our biggest offensive prospect and obviously he's playing the main role up front for a not-so-strong club. I'll be curious to see what he can do if traded.

In general, in a season where we're not (yet) watching NHL hockey, it'd be nice to have more excitement being generated from a prospect or two.
Couturier would have been really nice, but that's the past now. While Strome did indeed explode in his draft year, he was not some unknown kid who came out of nowhere. He was very highly regarded on the the Marlboros and drafted #8th overall in the OHL Draft by Barrie. He was the centerpiece in the trade for Pietrangelo who was probably the premier name on the trade block that year. Once he started getting his confidence and the ice time, he started to display his talents and the rest is history.

My issues with Strome have nothing to do with his talent, it's his physical maturity that will determine his ultimate ceiling. Time will tell, but I am happy with his development. I do expect him to legitimately challenge for a roster spot on LI next year, very likely in the top-6.

PWJunior is offline  
Old
10-16-2012, 06:46 PM
  #210
Konk
Registered User
 
Konk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,051
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chapin Landvogt View Post
How about score a lot AND get better in other facets of the game?
This kind of unreasonable expectation is why people will always consider prospects like Strome a disappointment no matter what. Fact of the matter is, if you're focusing on certain areas of your game and changing the way you play, it's going to affect your point totals. For example, Steve Yzerman, Mike Modano -- two players who entered the NHL as scoring machines and as they changed the way they played and became better all-around players their respective statistical output decreased.

John Tavares' junior numbers as pointed out above also illustrates this fact. You can't have it both ways. Either a player focuses entirely on offense and keeps increasing in production year after year, or as their pro team's coaches request, they focus on other aspects of their game and improve their all-around ability. Subsequently their numbers suffer, you're not going to see a player do both, and to expect it is ridiculous.

Konk is offline  
Old
10-16-2012, 11:37 PM
  #211
Degeneration Rex
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Upstate,New York
Country: United States
Posts: 4,578
vCash: 500
Tuesday
Seattle 6, Spokane 4-Kichton, 2 assists.

Degeneration Rex is online now  
Old
10-17-2012, 02:37 AM
  #212
Seph
Registered User
 
Seph's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Oregon
Country: South Korea
Posts: 16,143
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Seph
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chapin Landvogt View Post
How about score a lot AND get better in other facets of the game?
Am I really the only one that considers being top 10 in OHL scoring to be scoring a lot? As long as he stays near the top of league scoring while also improving his overall game, I'd consider that fairly noteworthy.

Seph is offline  
Old
10-17-2012, 06:38 AM
  #213
luki here
Registered User
 
luki here's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Vienna
Country: Austria
Posts: 2,515
vCash: 500
Considering he was chosen at 5th overall...top 10 means nothing. Working in his overall game should also benefit his point production, in my eyes.

luki here is offline  
Old
10-17-2012, 06:45 AM
  #214
Brain Hemorrhage
Registered User
 
Brain Hemorrhage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 2,431
vCash: 500
Chapin once kicked a supermodel out of bed for eating crackers. =P

Brain Hemorrhage is offline  
Old
10-17-2012, 07:05 AM
  #215
Chapin Landvogt
Hockey's Future Staff
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Germany
Posts: 12,680
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brain Hemorrhage View Post
Chapin once kicked a supermodel out of bed for eating crackers. =P
2 in fact...

Boy do I hate the crumbs they make....

Chapin Landvogt is offline  
Old
10-17-2012, 07:13 AM
  #216
Chapin Landvogt
Hockey's Future Staff
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Germany
Posts: 12,680
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Konk View Post
This kind of unreasonable expectation is why people will always consider prospects like Strome a disappointment no matter what. Fact of the matter is, if you're focusing on certain areas of your game and changing the way you play, it's going to affect your point totals. For example, Steve Yzerman, Mike Modano -- two players who entered the NHL as scoring machines and as they changed the way they played and became better all-around players their respective statistical output decreased.

John Tavares' junior numbers as pointed out above also illustrates this fact. You can't have it both ways. Either a player focuses entirely on offense and keeps increasing in production year after year, or as their pro team's coaches request, they focus on other aspects of their game and improve their all-around ability. Subsequently their numbers suffer, you're not going to see a player do both, and to expect it is ridiculous.
Scoring a lot as a fourth year junior AND improving your overall game certainly are not mutually exclusive.

Especially not for above-average players.

My impression is that the Islanders took Strome over guys like Couturier and Hamilton for particularly that reason - they see him as being above-average... and so that he'll be a scorer at the NHL level.

I nonetheless get your point.

All this said, again, my desire for greater offensive dominance has nothing to say about how effective or capable an NHL player he will one day be. He has much time to grow, improve and - at the pro level - round out that game of his.

This discussion is based on people feeling I'm being unreasonable in thinking, or actually simply just wanting, that we should be seeing more offensive dominance from our top offensive prospect in his fourth year of juniors at this point in his development.

That should actually be a fairly widespread sentiment amongst Islander fans.

Of course, we're not really into raising the bar around these parts...


Last edited by Chapin Landvogt: 10-17-2012 at 07:43 AM.
Chapin Landvogt is offline  
Old
10-17-2012, 07:40 AM
  #217
Chapin Landvogt
Hockey's Future Staff
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Germany
Posts: 12,680
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PWJunior View Post
Couturier would have been really nice, but that's the past now. While Strome did indeed explode in his draft year, he was not some unknown kid who came out of nowhere. He was very highly regarded on the the Marlboros and drafted #8th overall in the OHL Draft by Barrie. He was the centerpiece in the trade for Pietrangelo who was probably the premier name on the trade block that year. Once he started getting his confidence and the ice time, he started to display his talents and the rest is history.
There have been plenty of players over time who were drafted high by CHL teams and went on to not be drafted by NHL teams or didn't go until a later round.

What we cannot deny is that the physically slighter Strome was taken in a season in which he had 33 goals and 106 points after only having having gathered 27 points the year before. That's pretty much an astronomical jump. We know he had his connection to Tavares and we know that he had a few cool highlights on YouTube as well. The boy has hands.

I liked the kid just fine, but as I've stated on many occasions, the Isles have been taking first rounders who they see long-term potential and upside in while placing an emphasis on these kids being amongst the youngest in their draft class. In the process, they (and not just the NYI) have left kids on the board who had been talked about for years, were much more decorated and established than the kids they took, and have since made some good headlines contributing to their respective NHL teams.

The only no-brainer the Islanders have taken despite the more and more common overanalyzation that comes with a guy who has been so highly touted for such a long time is Tavares and ipso facto, he's the only one who is excelling.

As such, I'm looking for signs of hope that our first round picks really have sound, sound reasoning behind them.

As much as I like Niederreiter and Strome in general, I'd feel a lot better right now with say Fowler/Skinner and Couturier were to be in our line-up. I don't even think there's much indication that Niederreiter or Strome are going to be as good or even have more upside than these players. Now, it's very possible - even likely - that the NYI management machine simply likes the attitudes and mental make-up of these players.

Quote:
My issues with Strome have nothing to do with his talent, it's his physical maturity that will determine his ultimate ceiling. Time will tell, but I am happy with his development. I do expect him to legitimately challenge for a roster spot on LI next year, very likely in the top-6.
I certainly hope so. One way or another, we need it.

This said, I'm not quite sure he's more 'pro-ready', especially in an overall capacity, than say Ullstrom and Cizikas.


Last edited by Chapin Landvogt: 10-17-2012 at 08:04 AM.
Chapin Landvogt is offline  
Old
10-17-2012, 07:48 AM
  #218
Chapin Landvogt
Hockey's Future Staff
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Germany
Posts: 12,680
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seph View Post
Am I really the only one that considers being top 10 in OHL scoring to be scoring a lot? As long as he stays near the top of league scoring while also improving his overall game, I'd consider that fairly noteworthy.
Fair enough - his 14 points in 11 games don't scream of dominance, but are actually a better clip than i.e. when I first started griping about things when he had six points in five games.

I still think it's on par to think that a slighter OHL guy picked to be a scorer at the NHL level should be capable of 100 points in 55 games of his fourth junior season, regardless of what other parts of his game he's working on and whether or not his team is one of the stronger clubs in the league.

Again, he's got lots of time this season (should the Isles leave him there in the case of the league resuming play) and maybe those offensive numbers will jump up if indeed he is traded in the course of the season.

Here's hoping he's skating for Canada at the WJC.


Last edited by Chapin Landvogt: 10-17-2012 at 08:05 AM.
Chapin Landvogt is offline  
Old
10-17-2012, 08:45 AM
  #219
Beastrt
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 328
vCash: 500
I dont understand why everyone is criticizing strome.

Most, if not all of his assists have been first assists.
Niagra clearly is not as good as it was last year, he is carrying the team.
Look at Doug Hamiltons numbers they have gone down significantly, this is do to the team not regression.

Honestly if there is a season i think he will make the team, as a top six forward. I just hope they let him play in the wjc. He doesnt have anything else to learn playing in Niagra.

Remember nino only played two seasons in jrs, Strome is already on his 4th.

Beastrt is offline  
Old
10-17-2012, 09:03 AM
  #220
blinkman360
Norris
 
blinkman360's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Lawn Guyland
Country: United States
Posts: 9,984
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chapin Landvogt View Post
Scoring a lot as a fourth year junior AND improving your overall game certainly are not mutually exclusive.

Especially not for above-average players.

My impression is that the Islanders took Strome over guys like Couturier and Hamilton for particularly that reason - they see him as being above-average... and so that he'll be a scorer at the NHL level.

I nonetheless get your point.

All this said, again, my desire for greater offensive dominance has nothing to say about how effective or capable an NHL player he will one day be. He has much time to grow, improve and - at the pro level - round out that game of his.

This discussion is based on people feeling I'm being unreasonable in thinking, or actually simply just wanting, that we should be seeing more offensive dominance from our top offensive prospect in his fourth year of juniors at this point in his development.

That should actually be a fairly widespread sentiment amongst Islander fans.

Of course, we're not really into raising the bar around these parts...
You realize that Strome right now is ahead of guys like Scheifele, Galchenyuk, Gaunce, Faksa, McDavid, Monahan, and whatever other top prospect you want to look for.

As far as raising the bar goes, my expectations are extremely high for Strome. Higher than any other prospect we have, including Reinhart. Whether he puts up 100 points in the OHL this year or 85 points won't change my opinion.

blinkman360 is offline  
Old
10-17-2012, 09:06 AM
  #221
redbull
springtime hockey!
 
redbull's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,523
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chapin Landvogt View Post
As much as I like Niederreiter and Strome in general, I'd feel a lot better right now with say Fowler/Skinner and Couturier were to be in our line-up. I don't even think there's much indication that Niederreiter or Strome are going to be as good or even have more upside than these players. Now, it's very possible - even likely - that the NYI management machine simply likes the attitudes and mental make-up of these players.
Little bit of hindsight there. I don't recall anyone pining for Skinner before the draft. Fowler, yes, but a lot of teams moved away from that guy on draft day, as they did with Ryan Murphy, Gormley, Couturier to a lesser extent. Players climb and drop at the draft every year, as you obviously know, and Scheifele/RJohansen often climb drastically in their draft year, as Matt Duchene did in his draft year.

I think it's unfair to diminish Strome's stats in his draft year to "just one season". Most players don't get 100pts even as 19 year olds, that was quite the achievement. And he did play well last year, scored a lot more goals (per game) and played well in the WJC, even with underwhelming overall points/game - not unlike Tavares in his last year of junior.

Of course MORE production is better than less production and we'd all be happier if Strome was 2+ ppg this season, like Robbie Schremp was. Justin DiBenedetto scored almost as much as Tavares in his last year in junior, without Stamkos. But there were a lot of players who were stellar in the OHL in their final year (statistically) who ended up being nothing.

I thought Nazem Kadri outplayed Tavares in London, same age, same draft year, especially in the playoffs. I also saw Kadri tear-it-up when he was returned to London at 19, offensively. He was dynamic. He never changed his game to adapt to pro hockey and he's looking like a guy who simply won't be adaptable to the NHL game. Strome is a lot like Kadri in terms of size, skating, offensive ability.

What I like about Strome is his attitude and it seems like he's a guy who's focused on improving his game, on conditioning, on becoming a good pro. As much as some are down on Bailey, for a 9th overall offensive player, he's also become a serviceable pro who's improved his game in all areas and not faded into a rising star in Finland or Denmark or Switzerland.

Too soon to worry about Strome.
Too soon to count on Strome.


Quote:
This said, I'm not quite sure he's more 'pro-ready', especially in an overall capacity, than say Ullstrom and Cizikas.
Completely true. Ullstrom and Cizikas are far ahead of Strome in NHL readiness. Neither have Strome's talent and upside though, not even close. Cizikas shouldn't be underestimated but he's not a guy who has Strome's offensive upside, but at worst, Cizikas should be a great 4th line player in the NHL for a long time. I think he's a lock to make the NYI this year and wouldn't be surprised if he started to earn some big minutes towards the end of the year in a Nielsen-like role.

Ullstrom, I think he'll probably be a 3rd-4th line support player. I'm not sure he has the hands/skill to be a top six player and he's a little like Bergenheim where I question his overall hockey sense. But he's progressed so well since he was drafted so who knows. If Joensuu doesn't work out this year, I can see Ullstrom getting some of his minutes.

Isles are still short two forwards and two defensemen to start the year. I'm not sure Snow will bring in anyone from the outside (ala Pandolfo, Staios) or whether it'll be Cizikas/Ullstrom/deHaan/Donovan/Wishart/Ness (which would be a mistake, with the dmen anyway).

But let's hope the lockout ends and we have hockey this year.

redbull is offline  
Old
10-17-2012, 09:33 AM
  #222
Chapin Landvogt
Hockey's Future Staff
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Germany
Posts: 12,680
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by blinkman360 View Post
As far as raising the bar goes, my expectations are extremely high for Strome. Higher than any other prospect we have, including Reinhart. Whether he puts up 100 points in the OHL this year or 85 points won't change my opinion.
Hmmm, I kind of feel like this discussion began because folks were interested in changing my opinion, not necessarily the other way around.

I mean, heck, the discussion was opened by no less than yourself responding to me simply denoting that I was disappointed with Strome's 6 points in 5 games.

As for raising the bar, that's usually coming from those expecting more from a guy - or at least asking for higher standards of rating a guy in light of his drafting and expectations - than those who defend the level a player is currently at as being sufficient enough to avoid any reasonable point of disappointment.

Chapin Landvogt is offline  
Old
10-17-2012, 09:34 AM
  #223
KrisBeKreame
Registered User
 
KrisBeKreame's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Virginia
Country: United States
Posts: 2,583
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PWJunior View Post
My issues with Strome have nothing to do with his talent, it's his physical maturity that will determine his ultimate ceiling. Time will tell, but I am happy with his development. I do expect him to legitimately challenge for a roster spot on LI next year, very likely in the top-6.
Size wise he is not as bad off as you might think. Niagra measured him in at 6'1" 192 lbs. That is the same size/wieght as Josh Bailey, Thats bigger than Grabner and Nielsen. If Strome is strength training with Tavares in the summers I see no reason for him to be able to be any less physically mature than them. The only reason he might not be as strong would have to do with the the mental portion of strength of knowing how to use your body. That come with time as we have seen with bailey.

KrisBeKreame is offline  
Old
10-17-2012, 10:17 AM
  #224
Chapin Landvogt
Hockey's Future Staff
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Germany
Posts: 12,680
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by redbull View Post
Little bit of hindsight there. I don't recall anyone pining for Skinner before the draft.
A-HAAAAA! Gotchya - for I was pandering and gushing over the picking of
A) Fowler
B) Granlund
C) Skinner
in prelude to that draft.

At least I think I was.

Not in the mood to research it (he he). Anyhow, I thought Fowler would, if he were to somehow drop to 5, be a no-brainer. I am currently remembering that my fave forwards for 5-10 were then Granlund (reallyyyy liked the Koivuiness of that boy) and then Skinner, feeling his 70 OHL goals (POs included) were a sureshot sign of him just knowing how to be dangerous and generate offense. But you know how it is... one writes a lot in prelude to the draft, so I might be a bit fuzzy here...

Anyhow, Fowler is sufficient for proving my point.

Quote:
Fowler, yes, but a lot of teams moved away from that guy on draft day, as they did with Ryan Murphy, Gormley, Couturier to a lesser extent.
Yes, but I'd have to really say that particularly Fowler and Couturier are two guys who have undergone the level of scrutinization approaching their draft date that leaves a number of people ultimately scratching their heads, both then and in hindsight. It's becoming a trend. Basically, this is when a kid has been talked about in very high tones since he was 15 or 16 and then teams get too picky and overcritical. That player may then somehow not show the all-round domination in his actual draft year, despite nonetheless having a solid season by any other player's standards. He then gets passed over in a trend that sees teams taking shinier new toys in the process, many of which only truly enter the high rank discussion in the last five months of their draft year.

We are guilty of being of these teams.

I don't know - it just seems like there a teams allowing themselves to be victimized by their own over-analyzation. Granted, Fowler was more extreme than Couturier, but he too entered his draft year having been talked about as a top 3 pick for three years. This trend could get more attention if guys like Forsberg or Grigorenko start making immediate noise in the manner Fowler and Couturier have, although no-one in this past draft had been talked about as long as Fowler and Couturier had been prior to theirs.

Then again, maybe we'll look back in 10 years and see that Fowler and Couturier were ultimately just average and the guys who went ahead of them ended up the better players?

Initial results: Fowler and Couturier have been immediately NHL-capable and continue to have much upside and room for development, even if Fowler's +/- is someeee kind of ugly.

Quote:
I think it's unfair to diminish Strome's stats in his draft year to "just one season". Most players don't get 100pts even as 19 year olds, that was quite the achievement. And he did play well last year, scored a lot more goals (per game) and played well in the WJC, even with underwhelming overall points/game - not unlike Tavares in his last year of junior.
Well, at least Strome's stats (PPG) aren't taking the kind drop that de Haan's did.

And of course, his WJC performance was nice and dandy.

I'm gonna refrain from accepting the use of Tavares' junior point droppage as an example in this case because:
A) Strome certainly ain't no Tavares and I just KNOW that you guys don't want to be claiming he is.
B) Tavares had over 70 points as a 15 year old and over 70 goals as a 16 year old.

Tavares' pre-draft CHL statistics are a thing of great exceptionalism and he never touched CHL ice again after being drafted.

Strome is in year four two seasons after being drafted.

So common' guys, let's not be using the Tavares post-16-year-old statline as an example here.

Quote:
Of course MORE production is better than less production and we'd all be happier if Strome was 2+ ppg this season, like Robbie Schremp was. Justin DiBenedetto scored almost as much as Tavares in his last year in junior, without Stamkos. But there were a lot of players who were stellar in the OHL in their final year (statistically) who ended up being nothing.
Granted, but also many who went on to be great NHLers.

At the moment, I'm sure of Strome's NHL ability, but is he going to be Pat Lafontaine or Sam Gagner??? (To be continued...)

Quote:
I thought Nazem Kadri outplayed Tavares in London, same age, same draft year, especially in the playoffs. I also saw Kadri tear-it-up when he was returned to London at 19, offensively. He was dynamic. He never changed his game to adapt to pro hockey and he's looking like a guy who simply won't be adaptable to the NHL game. Strome is a lot like Kadri in terms of size, skating, offensive ability.
Or Nazem Kadri???

Quote:
Too soon to worry about Strome.
Too soon to count on Strome.
With no NHL to watch, I was hoping Strome would be the one to dazzle us at the OHL level this fall.

Quote:
Completely true. Ullstrom and Cizikas are far ahead of Strome in NHL readiness. Neither have Strome's talent and upside though, not even close. Cizikas shouldn't be underestimated but he's not a guy who has Strome's offensive upside, but at worst, Cizikas should be a great 4th line player in the NHL for a long time. I think he's a lock to make the NYI this year and wouldn't be surprised if he started to earn some big minutes towards the end of the year in a Nielsen-like role.
And also, neither Ullstrom or Cizikas were taken sixth overall, nor is either carrying the burden of being a scoring star, or no less than a major scoring contributor, at the NHL level.

Put differently, Strome certainly wasn't taken to be a mild-scoring, two-way player on a lower line, which would a fine, fine result for Cizikas and Ullstrom (two of the prime examples as to why I've not hesitated to give the Isles lots a support and props for their lower round drafting acumen).

Quote:
But let's hope the lockout ends and we have hockey this year.
A different topic, but I'm going to gander that we will see NHL hockey this season, even if it's just a half schedule starting up in January.


Last edited by Chapin Landvogt: 10-17-2012 at 10:23 AM.
Chapin Landvogt is offline  
Old
10-17-2012, 10:17 AM
  #225
redbull
springtime hockey!
 
redbull's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,523
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KrisBeKreame View Post
Size wise he is not as bad off as you might think. Niagra measured him in at 6'1" 192 lbs. That is the same size/wieght as Josh Bailey, Thats bigger than Grabner and Nielsen. If Strome is strength training with Tavares in the summers I see no reason for him to be able to be any less physically mature than them. The only reason he might not be as strong would have to do with the the mental portion of strength of knowing how to use your body. That come with time as we have seen with bailey.
The size part always seemed off to me. Strome looks like a small player, much smaller that 6'1" 190. I wonder how accurate that is. I'd say he's in the 5'10-11" and 175 level based on how he looks. Not sure if it's his equipment size, skating style or the way he plays but he definitely doesn't look like a 6'1" 190lb player.

And I don't intend this to question every player's listed height/weight on hockeydb or chl.ca, etc, because that's not really my point.

I do think Strome is physically immature. He looks like a skinny teenager more than a mature adult, he doesn't have his man-strength yet. deHaan never had that when he was drafted, but he's much bigger and stronger now. So is Brock Nelson. Strome isn't there yet and that's okay.

Strome has hockey sense, puck skills and vision that you cannot teach. That's why he was drafted where he was. Whether he's able to improve his skating and strength, work hard as he matures physically, work on his conditioning - that remains to be seen. But there's no way he can compete physically the way Bailey does currently in the NHL (not that Bailey's Chara or Lucic by any stretch). Strome is still too small to be an effective NHL top six player.

But let's see how he does in camp, the whole 5 days worth of camp that the lockout may allow for, if there's a season.


Last edited by redbull: 10-17-2012 at 10:22 AM.
redbull is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:28 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.